-
When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Are half of you finally going to accept how good he is? People were saying that if he beat Hatton they would respect his p4p standing, even willingly place him in the top 20 p4p AT, but now people are making excuses for every single win he has had. So my question is...
When Pacquiao beats Cotto, and if he beats him very one sidedly, will you guys finally give him the credit he deserves? Or will you hide behind the weight, and the fact that Cotto was washed up, even though he clearly isn't?
I am just saying I have a strong feeling this could be a lopsided win for Manny, and it seems like the more impressively he wins the bigger the excuses get. I am not saying he is far and away better than Cotto, IMO maybe only Mayweather can say that, but that Pacquiao's style is terrible for Cotto's skill set.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
My only issue is the weight. Why go ahead with 145 when 147 is so close and no question marks could be added if it were so?
If Manny dominates Cotto I will be surprised, but if he gets the win I will give him a lot of credit but not quite all the credit because he is taking Cotto down an entire 1000 grammes (or something like that) below what the fight should have been made at.
I'm sure Manny doesn't care less about credibility when he is earning all this money and taking away elements of risk in the process. He is a sensible business man.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Are half of you finally going to accept how good he is? People were saying that if he beat Hatton they would respect his p4p standing, even willingly place him in the top 20 p4p AT, but now people are making excuses for every single win he has had. So my question is...
When Pacquiao beats Cotto, and if he beats him very one sidedly, will you guys finally give him the credit he deserves? Or will you hide behind the weight, and the fact that Cotto was washed up, even though he clearly isn't?
I am just saying I have a strong feeling this could be a lopsided win for Manny, and it seems like the more impressively he wins the bigger the excuses get. I am not saying he is far and away better than Cotto, IMO maybe only Mayweather can say that, but that Pacquiao's style is terrible for Cotto's skill set.
It's weird how it works.. because if Pac beats him "easily", then the weight excuses will come out.. But if it's a great fight and Pac BARELY edges out an SD or something, after lets say getting knocked down once or twice, then he will get more credit..
Also, because of Cotto's loss to margarito, and close decision to Clottey, it's easy to say he's not the same fight as he was before margarito.. that's just the nature of it.. If he had one more decent win after those two fights, i feel that there could be less excuses.
As far as i'm concerned, I think it's stupid that it's at 145, but a 2lb difference, as opposed to a 4lb difference (if it was going to be at 143) isn't TOO much of a deal. I don't think 2lb will affect Cotto and i believe he will be in top shape.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Don't be silly, the start of the excuses have already been highlighted in this thread - Cotto was weight drained, he wasn't the same after Margarito, looked shit against Clotty.. and they'll be a dozen more by time he loses.
No-one ever loses fair and square in boxing.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Cotto should not have agreed to the catchweight fullstop. Who else was Manny going to fight that could have stimulated some interest at a catchweight and make the same money? Mosley....Berto...Collazo?
Cotto is a bigger draw than those guys and he yet he gives up some of his natural weight advantage. A bit of a cop out. Manny had nowhere else to turn really. He really doesn't want to fight Mosley nor resort to fighting minor players like Berto. And yet we got the cop out result.
If Cotto beats the living Jesus out of him it's all good. Which I think he might do. But otherwise, catchweights really, really suck. Cotto beats a midget then I say fair enough because he drained down to the midgets current size. :-\
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Cotto should not have agreed to the catchweight fullstop. Who else was Manny going to fight that could have stimulated some interest at a catchweight and make the same money? Mosley....Berto...Collazo?
Cotto is a bigger draw than those guys and he yet he gives up some of his natural weight advantage. A bit of a cop out. Manny had nowhere else to turn really. He really doesn't want to fight Mosley nor resort to fighting minor players like Berto. And yet we got the cop out result.
If Cotto beats the living Jesus out of him it's all good. Which I think he might do. But otherwise, catchweights really, really suck. Cotto beats a midget then I say fair enough because he drained down to the midgets current size. :-\
Don't worry Miles,
Cotto's career high payday compensated for the couple of pounds lost in weight ;)
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Are half of you finally going to accept how good he is? People were saying that if he beat Hatton they would respect his p4p standing, even willingly place him in the top 20 p4p AT, but now people are making excuses for every single win he has had. So my question is...
When Pacquiao beats Cotto, and if he beats him very one sidedly, will you guys finally give him the credit he deserves? Or will you hide behind the weight, and the fact that Cotto was washed up, even though he clearly isn't?
I am just saying I have a strong feeling this could be a lopsided win for Manny, and it seems like the more impressively he wins the bigger the excuses get. I am not saying he is far and away better than Cotto, IMO maybe only Mayweather can say that, but that Pacquiao's style is terrible for Cotto's skill set.
I give him credit right now. I never thought Hatton had a snow balls chance in hell of beating Pac. That was the quickest, worst beating of a supposedly elite fighter I ever saw; it wasn't even a fight. I knew he would win but damn:vd:
Oscar was drained but too bad that was his own ego and lack of regard for Pac, and he got beat silly. I'd still think Pac could beat Oscar without the weight issues; maybe not a prime Oscar mind you, but a hydrated Oscar of the last few years.
I actually did get impressed with his pummeling of Diaz. Diaz granted wasn't a GOAT candidate but Pac knocked out a guy in a higher division who had only been stoped once and it was a one sided affair from a guy who started at fleaweight fighting a big LW. I actually thought Diaz would win due to his chin and just being bigger; dumb prediction.
If he pulls off this win against Cotto how can anyone take credit away? I don't like the 145 thing personally; because if you want the title and stupid trinket to wrap around your waist, then play within the rules. But Cotto doesn't have a problem with it, nor the governing bodies, so it's on and if he wins it's massive; I won't rain on his parade. I think he wins a decision in an epic fight.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Cotto should not have agreed to the catchweight fullstop. Who else was Manny going to fight that could have stimulated some interest at a catchweight and make the same money? Mosley....Berto...Collazo?
Cotto is a bigger draw than those guys and he yet he gives up some of his natural weight advantage. A bit of a cop out. Manny had nowhere else to turn really. He really doesn't want to fight Mosley nor resort to fighting minor players like Berto. And yet we got the cop out result.
If Cotto beats the living Jesus out of him it's all good. Which I think he might do. But otherwise, catchweights really, really suck. Cotto beats a midget then I say fair enough because he drained down to the midgets current size. :-\
Don't worry Miles,
Cotto's career high payday compensated for the couple of pounds lost in weight ;)
Yep, he's a smart businessman too. I don't like these catchweights, that's all. Pac beat Hatton up fair and square and that was cool. I can give credit. Manny beat him up, Hatton was stupid but that's life. But to now try and use catchweights to secure advantages is really crappy and weak. It shows a Manny at the end of his limits trying to take what he can at the least cost. And as a purist, I just hate that.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Cotto should not have agreed to the catchweight fullstop. Who else was Manny going to fight that could have stimulated some interest at a catchweight and make the same money? Mosley....Berto...Collazo?
Cotto is a bigger draw than those guys and he yet he gives up some of his natural weight advantage. A bit of a cop out. Manny had nowhere else to turn really. He really doesn't want to fight Mosley nor resort to fighting minor players like Berto. And yet we got the cop out result.
If Cotto beats the living Jesus out of him it's all good. Which I think he might do. But otherwise, catchweights really, really suck. Cotto beats a midget then I say fair enough because he drained down to the midgets current size. :-\
Don't worry Miles,
Cotto's career high payday compensated for the couple of pounds lost in weight ;)
Yep, he's a smart businessman too. I don't like these catchweights, that's all. Pac beat Hatton up fair and square and that was cool. I can give credit. Manny beat him up, Hatton was stupid but that's life. But to now try and use catchweights to secure advantages is really crappy and weak. It shows a Manny at the end of his limits trying to take what he can at the least cost. And as a purist, I just hate that.
Surely you would rather see the fight than not though?
If catchweights mean certain fights will happen then it's a good thing, no? And this is a great fight.
One year ago a fight between Cotto and Pac would have been laughed out of town - because obviously Pac would get killed. Now he's the favourite. Amazing.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
The problem is that if you are considered the pound for pound king, then you should not be fighting at or demanding catchweights. Because this fight is at a catchweight, Manny is losing some respect, especially if Manny wins against Cotto, whom we all know had weight issues in the past below 147.
I certainly think Cotto is still good and definitely not washed up (he has been fighting the top welterweights for some time now-of course not all of those fights will be resounding successes). I also do not think that Manny can fuk with Cotto's power, jab, body attack, and ring intelligence. It will take Cotto about two rounds to adjust to Manny's speed and feel how much power he has, and after that, it will get brutal for Manny. So if Manny wins, I will give him credit, even at 145, a weight that will allow Cotto to retain whatever speed he has AND his well-known power.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't be silly, the start of the excuses have already been highlighted in this thread - Cotto was weight drained, he wasn't the same after Margarito, looked shit against Clotty.. and they'll be a dozen more by time he loses.
No-one ever loses fair and square in boxing.
not when the boxer/trainer start dictating the rules/weights.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't worry Miles,
Cotto's career high payday compensated for the couple of pounds lost in weight ;)
Yep, he's a smart businessman too. I don't like these catchweights, that's all. Pac beat Hatton up fair and square and that was cool. I can give credit. Manny beat him up, Hatton was stupid but that's life. But to now try and use catchweights to secure advantages is really crappy and weak. It shows a Manny at the end of his limits trying to take what he can at the least cost. And as a purist, I just hate that.
Surely you would rather see the fight than not though?
If catchweights mean certain fights will happen then it's a good thing, no? And this is a great fight.
One year ago a fight between Cotto and Pac would have been laughed out of town - because obviously Pac would get killed. Now he's the favourite. Amazing.
Of course I will watch. How could I not?
But it would mean that bit more if it was 147 no questions asked. That for me is the real fight and if Manny topples the man then all you can do is sit back and say "fair play".
As it is, we have debates like this that shouldn't be happening. It should be a 147 fight. Is Manny really that scared by a couple of pounds?
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't be silly, the start of the excuses have already been highlighted in this thread - Cotto was weight drained, he wasn't the same after Margarito, looked shit against Clotty.. and they'll be a dozen more by time he loses.
No-one ever loses fair and square in boxing.
not when the boxer/trainer start dictating the rules/weights.
Well if the other guy is happy enough to agree where's the problem?
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
At first I had a problem with catchweights but then there has been quite a few catchweight fights in boxing history and former p4p kings like De La Hoya and Ray Leonard has done it.
Hell I didn't even know that JCC and Whitaker fought at a catchweight in '93, I thought it was just a welterweight fight and so did many people, but it was a catchweight at 145 just like this fight, except that fight was between the no.1 and no. 2 p4p fighters at that time. That was still a great fight even if it was at a catchweight.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Yep, he's a smart businessman too. I don't like these catchweights, that's all. Pac beat Hatton up fair and square and that was cool. I can give credit. Manny beat him up, Hatton was stupid but that's life. But to now try and use catchweights to secure advantages is really crappy and weak. It shows a Manny at the end of his limits trying to take what he can at the least cost. And as a purist, I just hate that.
Surely you would rather see the fight than not though?
If catchweights mean certain fights will happen then it's a good thing, no? And this is a great fight.
One year ago a fight between Cotto and Pac would have been laughed out of town - because obviously Pac would get killed. Now he's the favourite. Amazing.
Of course I will watch. How could I not?
But it would mean that bit more if it was 147 no questions asked. That for me is the real fight and if Manny topples the man then all you can do is sit back and say "fair play".
As it is, we have debates like this that shouldn't be happening. It should be a 147 fight.
Is Manny really that scared by a couple of pounds?
Maybe he is, but the important thing is Cotto wasn't scared about losing a couple of pounds, otherwise he would have refused the fight ;)
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Surely you would rather see the fight than not though?
If catchweights mean certain fights will happen then it's a good thing, no? And this is a great fight.
One year ago a fight between Cotto and Pac would have been laughed out of town - because obviously Pac would get killed. Now he's the favourite. Amazing.
Of course I will watch. How could I not?
But it would mean that bit more if it was 147 no questions asked. That for me is the real fight and if Manny topples the man then all you can do is sit back and say "fair play".
As it is, we have debates like this that shouldn't be happening. It should be a 147 fight.
Is Manny really that scared by a couple of pounds?
Maybe he is, but the important thing is Cotto wasn't scared about losing a couple of pounds, otherwise he would have refused the fight ;)
I can only hope that Cotto is not a mentalist and knows what he's doing. Like I say, if Cotto wins I will be a very happy bunny. I'm tired of Manny beating people that I like.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
I think I will be supporting Cotto but Manny Pac deserves credit for stepping up to welter legitimately.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think I will be supporting Cotto but Manny Pac deserves credit for stepping up to welter legitimately.
WW is 147 pounds. This fight is at 145.
There is nothing legitimate about this fight besides the legal documents these fighters signed. Fight fans know what is real.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Pacquaio could sit back, protect his record and wait on Floyd but he's not, there's nothing really to complain about here (except for Cotto picking on little dudes ;D), just Manny in another big fight.
if he goes JMM, Diaz, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Mayweather then we should probably sacrifice one of our posters like a goat in his honor. Maybe Plopeater? 0r that guy who would go on and on and on about Calzaghe or Hatton and had that shirtless muscle pose avatar of himself. Than God he's not around anymore.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
Pacquaio could sit back, protect his record and wait on Floyd but he's not, there's nothing really to complain about here (except for Cotto picking on little dudes ;D), just Manny in another big fight.
if he goes JMM, Diaz, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Mayweather then we should probably sacrifice one of our posters like a goat in his honor. Maybe Plopeater? 0r that guy who would go on and on and on about Calzaghe or Hatton and had that shirtless muscle pose avatar of himself. Than God he's not around anymore.
That's one thing I am more interested to see; will Cotto get as much credit if he wins? Or will it be clouded by the fact he beat up a midgit?
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LEGION
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
Pacquaio could sit back, protect his record and wait on Floyd but he's not, there's nothing really to complain about here (except for Cotto picking on little dudes ;D), just Manny in another big fight.
if he goes JMM, Diaz, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Mayweather then we should probably sacrifice one of our posters like a goat in his honor. Maybe Plopeater? 0r that guy who would go on and on and on about Calzaghe or Hatton and had that shirtless muscle pose avatar of himself. Than God he's not around anymore.
That's one thing I am more interested to see; will Cotto get as much credit if he wins? Or will it be clouded by the fact he beat up a midgit?
Cotto will get a ton of credit from the majority of people should he beat Pacquaio. It won't happen though, he's going to take a beating.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LEGION
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OumaFan
Pacquaio could sit back, protect his record and wait on Floyd but he's not, there's nothing really to complain about here (except for Cotto picking on little dudes ;D), just Manny in another big fight.
if he goes JMM, Diaz, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Mayweather then we should probably sacrifice one of our posters like a goat in his honor. Maybe Plopeater? 0r that guy who would go on and on and on about Calzaghe or Hatton and had that shirtless muscle pose avatar of himself. Than God he's not around anymore.
That's one thing I am more interested to see; will Cotto get as much credit if he wins? Or will it be clouded by the fact he beat up a midgit?
Cotto will get a ton of credit from the majority of people should he beat Pacquaio. It won't happen though, he's going to take a beating.
Let's put it this way.. i was at the beach the other day w/ some friends and someone brought up Pac fighting Mayweather.. Now these guys are not "fans" really, they will watch a big fight, and they will watch anything boxing that is on ESPN or anything to that extent..
While talking about the topic, my friend said, Pac would destroy Mayweather, because Pac can' tbe beat right now.
In the casual fans eye, he just beat ODLH, who is the GOD of boxing, and Ricky Hatton, who is a brawler who got beat by a smaller man, BRUTALLY.
So, YES, Cotto will get a ton of credit if he wins this fight. The thing is, i don't think the size difference will be seen until they're in the ring, and then if Cotto wins, would people say, "well he was so much bigger than him"?
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RP33
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LEGION
That's one thing I am more interested to see; will Cotto get as much credit if he wins? Or will it be clouded by the fact he beat up a midgit?
Cotto will get a ton of credit from the majority of people should he beat Pacquaio. It won't happen though, he's going to take a beating.
Let's put it this way.. i was at the beach the other day w/ some friends and someone brought up Pac fighting Mayweather.. Now these guys are not "fans" really, they will watch a big fight, and they will watch anything boxing that is on ESPN or anything to that extent..
While talking about the topic, my friend said, Pac would destroy Mayweather, because Pac can' tbe beat right now.
In the casual fans eye, he just beat ODLH, who is the GOD of boxing, and Ricky Hatton, who is a brawler who got beat by a smaller man, BRUTALLY.
So, YES, Cotto will get a ton of credit if he wins this fight. The thing is, i don't think the size difference will be seen until they're in the ring, and then if Cotto wins, would people say, "well he was so much bigger than him"?
Yeah I gotcha' man. I'm wondering more about the people who are more than casual fans; like the Pac Sack Fanatics. I'll give either credit for winning; hell I'll give either credit win or lose.
Come fight night, like you said, if Cotto should win than how much credit does he get from that size advantage? Who cares anyways, there will always be controversy no matter what after a big fight. I hope Cotto prepares well; Pac looking to make history that night and that little dude is serious business in between those ropes. Can't get here fast enough; Saddo's will be like an ant hill busted open after that one:woot22:
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I think I will be supporting Cotto but Manny Pac deserves credit for stepping up to welter legitimately.
WW is 147 pounds. This fight is at 145.
There is nothing legitimate about this fight besides the legal documents these fighters signed. Fight fans know what is real.
And yet people will legitimately see this as a super fight.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
most of us already know and accept how good Pac is. he is an ATG and nobody is gonna change that win or lose.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
i gave credit to Manny for the Hatton win, i gave him FULL credit, and IF, and that's a big IF he manages to beat Cotto, unless there is some huge bullshit like a wrong decision or whatever other crap, i'll give him full credit also, stop making Manny a victim, he's far from it
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
I have a feeling that whatever happens on fight night, this thread will be bumped back up for someone to gloat
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
I just want to say sorry to you advid Cotto, fans he is a great champion, and I love his fighting style, but this is how I see it if you want to really simplify things
Cotto has good timing which worked well against Mosley, but Pacquiao is faster than current MOsley, and he has better timing than even Cotto. Its only natural because he is faster and has quicker reflexes along with the fact that he, Manny has been facing smaller, faster, sharper fighters all his career.
Power: Both guys can stop eachother, I have no doubt about that. But if you had to ask me who will land the cleaner punches more often, then my answer will be met in the next category.
Footspeed: the biggest determining factor of all. Hatton has much faster feet than Cotto, and surprisingly he couldn't cut the distance effectively at all, now even though Cotto has an unbelievable jab, and a really good cross, most of his damage comes from short, perfectly thrown left hook, either to hte head or to the body, and you really have to commit and get inside to land that cleanly, and I just can wrap me head around a way Cotto will be able to land on the outside effectively, let alone on the inside if Manny is using movement. I mean Mosley isn't great at using movement against anything that doesn't move like a zombie, and in the middle rounds when he started moving against cotto he really nullified Cotto's effectiveness offensively, and was able to counter big until he forced Cotto into retreat.
Now I know people can argue Mosley and possibly Judah are bigger punchers than Manny, but some guys just hurt you, and Manny is one of those guys, he lands so many punches so cleanly, that even though he might not hit quite as hard, it adds up to similar if not more damage. His speed and power combined with the fact that he throws everything into that left cross doesn't bode well for Cotto, Quintana was able to land that left hand, as was Judah, sure Cotto beat them, but thats because Quitana isn't super fast, and Judah doesn't move at all, and stops throwing punches when the going gets tough.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Given his superb performance against Ricky Hatton and given Miguel’s not-so-superb performance against Joshua Clottey, my initial reaction is that Manny will be a solid favorite to beat Cotto—maybe within the distance. Cotto will not like the variety of weapons Manny has in his considerable arsenal, including a strong jab, right hooks to the head, left hooks to the jaw, brutal uppercuts (remember Margorito), speed, and in-and-out movement the likes of which Cotto has never before gone up against. Cotto, on the other hand, will show Manny nothing he has not seen before. In some respects, this has the makings of a Pacquiao-Hatton repeat
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
I just want to add to the thread that catch-weights, In my honest opinion, have no place in boxing anymore, not with the stupid amount of weight classes available. This should be at 147
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Bullshit taeth :rolleyes:
You will never pick against a athletic guy.. In the 3+ years I have been here you are like a fly in a bugzapper crazy creaming all over those type of guys
Fair enough and thats your opinion, but you ignore the true facts...
Pac is not tested LEGITIMATELY Past 135 and we have no earthly idea how he will assimilate Cotto's power and being clobbered by a 155 lb wrecking ball. Oscar was shot and capoot, couldnt even really land a glove on Manny let alone set and throw a power shot. Hatton got slaughtered because he tried jumping on pac without moving his head or jabbing.
Cotto will be fresher and functional at 145 than DLH, he has a high tight guard and he is effective and patient with his aggression to go along with an excellent jab.. Miguel can box and is a suberb counterpuncher who can fight forward and backwards seemlessly. Pac can try to dart in and out but he has to come into range sooner or later and when he does he will pay a stiff price that no one can say with conviction his body and chin can handle.
Cotto has battled adversity being beaten up with loaded gloves and coming back, also proved in the Clottey fight that he can swim in the deep waters
Basically Pac is going to get his liver knocked through his a$$hole
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Bullshit taeth :rolleyes:
You will never pick against a athletic guy.. In the 3+ years I have been here you are like a fly in a bugzapper crazy creaming all over those type of guys
Fair enough and thats your opinion, but you ignore the true facts...
Pac is not tested LEGITIMATELY Past 135 and we have no earthly idea how he will assimilate Cotto's power and being clobbered by a 155 lb wrecking ball. Oscar was shot and capoot, couldnt even really land a glove on Manny let alone set and throw a power shot. Hatton got slaughtered because he tried jumping on pac without moving his head or jabbing.
Cotto will be fresher and functional at 145 than DLH, he has a high tight guard and he is effective and patient with his aggression to go along with an excellent jab.. Miguel can box and is a suberb counterpuncher who can fight forward and backwards seemlessly. Pac can try to dart in and out but he has to come into range sooner or later and when he does he will pay a stiff price that no one can say with conviction his body and chin can handle.
Cotto has battled adversity being beaten up with loaded gloves and coming back, also proved in the Clottey fight that he can swim in the deep waters
Basically Pac is going to get his liver knocked through his a$$hole
I gotta disagree with what I bolded JT. Regardless of the ease with which he beat him, Hatton was a stern test for Pac. To continue the analogy, just because Pac aced it doesn't mean it wasn't a serious test.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
My only issue is the weight. Why go ahead with 145 when 147 is so close and no question marks could be added if it were so?
cause if they fight at 147 then the advantage goes to cotto he being the bigger man. if they fight at 143 then advantage goes to pac being the smaller man.
if they fight at 145 then both of them has no advantage.
its just so hard for people to understand it. look if they fought at 147 then pac loses well thats because he is fighting a giant. if they fought at 143 and cotto loses then cotto is weightdrained. so to eliminate excuses why not fight at 145? so there would be no excuses. still hard to understand?
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Hatton got beat because he was Ricky Hatton, I still have yet to see what he did that was so out of character in the Manny fight. He spent his career lunging in with the left hook. Manny is an all time great and Hatton was a good champion who couldn't hang, no shame in that, he only got beat by the best. And Luis Collazo ;D Nah I actually scored that for Ricky.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Life would be so much easier if I was just a fair weather boxing fan who watched boxing a dozen times a year, would make my life easier.
I like Pacquiao but people get so damned carried away. The win over Hatton was awesome and what he was supposed to do. He kept the fight in the center of the ring and he picked Ricky off as Ricky lunged in. Pac stepped up to the challenge and Ricky Hatton didn't. He may have trained well and been in top shape but tactically he was the same fighter. Following Roach's plan, I'm sure it came easy to Pacquiao especially with his sharp punching.
Against De La Hoya he had a flatfooted fighter who couldn't cope with Pac's speed and accuracy. Hatton or De La Hoya, neither were Cotto. No question this is his hardest fight yet. It just sucks that Cotto's biggest flaws are some of Pacquiao's biggest advantages but Cotto is fully capable of pulling this off. It is no certainty, Taeth you of all people should know it is foolish to assume ANYTHING in boxing.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
Bullshit taeth :rolleyes:
You will never pick against a athletic guy.. In the 3+ years I have been here you are like a fly in a bugzapper crazy creaming all over those type of guys
Fair enough and thats your opinion, but you ignore the true facts...
Pac is not tested LEGITIMATELY Past 135 and we have no earthly idea how he will assimilate Cotto's power and being clobbered by a 155 lb wrecking ball. Oscar was shot and capoot, couldnt even really land a glove on Manny let alone set and throw a power shot. Hatton got slaughtered because he tried jumping on pac without moving his head or jabbing.
Cotto will be fresher and functional at 145 than DLH, he has a high tight guard and he is effective and patient with his aggression to go along with an excellent jab.. Miguel can box and is a suberb counterpuncher who can fight forward and backwards seemlessly. Pac can try to dart in and out but he has to come into range sooner or later and when he does he will pay a stiff price that no one can say with conviction his body and chin can handle.
Cotto has battled adversity being beaten up with loaded gloves and coming back, also proved in the Clottey fight that he can swim in the deep waters
Basically Pac is going to get his liver knocked through his a$$hole
don't forget to mention that Cotto is a natural counter puncher, watch most of his early fights, he adopted the aggressive style pretty much around the Sosa fight, but he still counter punches pretty damn effectively and i know of one counter puncher who's given Pacquiao nightmares
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
A flat-footed Oscar De La Hoya is faster than Cotto on his toes, he doesn't move quickly.
+ if you are talking about me, I watch more fights than 90% of hte people on here. Just because I spent more time watching the top end guys, or the guys who are up and coming wiht potential, doesn't mean I don't watch as much as you guys who watch c or d level guys a lot.
I read shit like JT is spouting that Pacquiao has never been tested above 135, then I guess Oscar's fights against Steve Forbes, Mayorga, and Mayweather count for nothing. It had absolutely nothing to do with how good Pacquiao that he won the way he did against Oscar. Or how he beat Ricky Hatton. Who is better than Ricky Hatton at 140? Nobody.
Who is better than Cotto who is still active at welterweight? Nobody.
Yes I think Cotto is better than more athletic guys like MOsley, Berto, and Zab Judah, but none of them are as good as Pacquiao.
People say I always pick the athlete, but I remember of late picking Oscar over Pacquiao, I thought Hatton-Pacquiao was going to be tough, but I was wrong both times, and even Pacquiao-Diaz I thought was going to be a really tough fight for Manny, because I thought he would be an easy target, but I was wrong.
You guys say I am getting carried away with Manny? I am not the one who things Cotto is a superb counter puncher. He's good at it, but its definitely not his bread and butter.
I am not assuming 100% that Manny wins, but I am sure like I was with Hopkins-Pavlik, Mayweather vs anyone(except Maybe Pacquiao), Calzaghe-Jones.
Pacquiao will win, but I already have my answer in regards to people. I already know 90% of you who don't like Manny will have excuses just like you did after he beat ODLH and Hatton. All I have to say is look back 3 years, I used to hate Manny, and there is a reason why I don't anymore, he has changed my mind.
IMO this isn't Manny's hardest fight, Marquez, Morales, and Barrera as complete fighters all brought more to the table than Cotto. I think Cotto is a great fighter, but his lack of durablity IMO takes him off ATG charts. Despite his great heart, he is too easy to hit, and too easy to hurt.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
A flat-footed Oscar De La Hoya is faster than Cotto on his toes, he doesn't move quickly.
+ if you are talking about me, I watch more fights than 90% of hte people on here. Just because I spent more time watching the top end guys, or the guys who are up and coming wiht potential, doesn't mean I don't watch as much as you guys who watch c or d level guys a lot.
I read shit like JT is spouting that Pacquiao has never been tested above 135, then I guess Oscar's fights against Steve Forbes, Mayorga, and Mayweather count for nothing. It had absolutely nothing to do with how good Pacquiao that he won the way he did against Oscar. Or how he beat Ricky Hatton. Who is better than Ricky Hatton at 140? Nobody.
Who is better than Cotto who is still active at welterweight? Nobody.
Yes I think Cotto is better than more athletic guys like MOsley, Berto, and Zab Judah, but none of them are as good as Pacquiao.
People say I always pick the athlete, but I remember of late picking Oscar over Pacquiao, I thought Hatton-Pacquiao was going to be tough, but I was wrong both times, and even Pacquiao-Diaz I thought was going to be a really tough fight for Manny, because I thought he would be an easy target, but I was wrong.
You guys say I am getting carried away with Manny? I am not the one who things Cotto is a superb counter puncher. He's good at it, but its definitely not his bread and butter.
I am not assuming 100% that Manny wins, but I am sure like I was with Hopkins-Pavlik, Mayweather vs anyone(except Maybe Pacquiao), Calzaghe-Jones.
Pacquiao will win, but I already have my answer in regards to people. I already know 90% of you who don't like Manny will have excuses just like you did after he beat ODLH and Hatton. All I have to say is look back 3 years, I used to hate Manny, and there is a reason why I don't anymore, he has changed my mind.
IMO this isn't Manny's hardest fight, Marquez, Morales, and Barrera as complete fighters all brought more to the table than Cotto. I think Cotto is a great fighter, but his lack of durablity IMO takes him off ATG charts. Despite his great heart, he is too easy to hit, and too easy to hurt.
Manny isn't too hard to find himself, and is completely ineffective while being backed up, which IMO he'll be doing plenty of against Cotto
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
A flat-footed Oscar De La Hoya is faster than Cotto on his toes, he doesn't move quickly.
+ if you are talking about me, I watch more fights than 90% of hte people on here. Just because I spent more time watching the top end guys, or the guys who are up and coming wiht potential, doesn't mean I don't watch as much as you guys who watch c or d level guys a lot.
I read shit like JT is spouting that Pacquiao has never been tested above 135, then I guess Oscar's fights against Steve Forbes, Mayorga, and Mayweather count for nothing. It had absolutely nothing to do with how good Pacquiao that he won the way he did against Oscar. Or how he beat Ricky Hatton. Who is better than Ricky Hatton at 140? Nobody.
Who is better than Cotto who is still active at welterweight? Nobody.
Yes I think Cotto is better than more athletic guys like MOsley, Berto, and Zab Judah, but none of them are as good as Pacquiao.
People say I always pick the athlete, but I remember of late picking Oscar over Pacquiao, I thought Hatton-Pacquiao was going to be tough, but I was wrong both times, and even Pacquiao-Diaz I thought was going to be a really tough fight for Manny, because I thought he would be an easy target, but I was wrong.
You guys say I am getting carried away with Manny? I am not the one who things Cotto is a superb counter puncher. He's good at it, but its definitely not his bread and butter.
I am not assuming 100% that Manny wins, but I am sure like I was with Hopkins-Pavlik, Mayweather vs anyone(except Maybe Pacquiao), Calzaghe-Jones.
Pacquiao will win, but I already have my answer in regards to people. I already know 90% of you who don't like Manny will have excuses just like you did after he beat ODLH and Hatton. All I have to say is look back 3 years, I used to hate Manny, and there is a reason why I don't anymore, he has changed my mind.
IMO this isn't Manny's hardest fight, Marquez, Morales, and Barrera as complete fighters all brought more to the table than Cotto. I think Cotto is a great fighter, but his lack of durablity IMO takes him off ATG charts. Despite his great heart, he is too easy to hit, and too easy to hurt.
;D Err, yeah I think it kinda does. Because the majority of the really hardcore fans that watch all of the "D and C level fights" also watch the big names and prospects that you watch. They don't consciously limit themselves to fighters Taeth thinks are crap.
-
Re: When Pacquiao beats Cotto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
A flat-footed Oscar De La Hoya is faster than Cotto on his toes, he doesn't move quickly.
+ if you are talking about me, I watch more fights than 90% of hte people on here. Just because I spent more time watching the top end guys, or the guys who are up and coming wiht potential, doesn't mean I don't watch as much as you guys who watch c or d level guys a lot.
I read shit like JT is spouting that Pacquiao has never been tested above 135, then I guess Oscar's fights against Steve Forbes, Mayorga, and Mayweather count for nothing. It had absolutely nothing to do with how good Pacquiao that he won the way he did against Oscar. Or how he beat Ricky Hatton. Who is better than Ricky Hatton at 140? Nobody.
Who is better than Cotto who is still active at welterweight? Nobody.
Yes I think Cotto is better than more athletic guys like MOsley, Berto, and Zab Judah, but none of them are as good as Pacquiao.
People say I always pick the athlete, but I remember of late picking Oscar over Pacquiao, I thought Hatton-Pacquiao was going to be tough, but I was wrong both times, and even Pacquiao-Diaz I thought was going to be a really tough fight for Manny, because I thought he would be an easy target, but I was wrong.
You guys say I am getting carried away with Manny? I am not the one who things Cotto is a superb counter puncher. He's good at it, but its definitely not his bread and butter.
I am not assuming 100% that Manny wins, but I am sure like I was with Hopkins-Pavlik, Mayweather vs anyone(except Maybe Pacquiao), Calzaghe-Jones.
Pacquiao will win, but I already have my answer in regards to people. I already know 90% of you who don't like Manny will have excuses just like you did after he beat ODLH and Hatton. All I have to say is look back 3 years, I used to hate Manny, and there is a reason why I don't anymore, he has changed my mind.
IMO this isn't Manny's hardest fight, Marquez, Morales, and Barrera as complete fighters all brought more to the table than Cotto. I think Cotto is a great fighter, but his lack of durablity IMO takes him off ATG charts. Despite his great heart, he is too easy to hit, and too easy to hurt.
Manny isn't too hard to find himself, a
nd is completely ineffective while being backed up, which IMO he'll be doing plenty of against Cotto
Not true. Maybe old Manny but the newer version has added great movement and can fight on the back foot. Anyway he moves side to side more than he does straight back.
