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Marciano and Generational Bias
Generational Bias
I have always adhered to two principles. The first one is to train hard
and get in the best possible physical condition. The second is to forget all about the other fellow until you face him in the ring and the bell sounds for the fight.
–Rocky Marciano
The latest is the greatest
–Anonymous
I loved Rocky Marciano for any number of reasons not the least of
which is that he was from my era and my generation. That he was an Italian didn’t hurt much either. I also thought he was a great fighter who did what he had to do against everyone they put in from of him. After all, 49-0 is a perfect record.
Of course, looking through the prism of nostalgia makes everything
seem better and I like to play out old school memories just like
other old timers. However, I also try to be thoughtful and objective
when making comparisons between the past and the present–and that’s where the issue of generational prejudice comes in (some call it “era” prejudice). And that’s where comparisons between The Rock and modern fighters come in as well.
Should he be compared to recent heavyweights in the mold of Ali,
George Foreman or Wladimir Klitschko? Of course not. He simply was not big enough, but how about comparing him to the likes of the following who fight at Cruiserweight (175-200 lb (90.72 kg):
O’Neil Bell
Enzo Maccarinelli
Vadim Tokarev
Jean Marc Mormeck
David Haye
Emmanuel Nwodo
Matt Godfrey
Steve Cunningham
Rico Hoye
Krzysztof Wlodarczyk
Marco Huck
Grigory Drozd
Pietro Aurino
Johnathon Banks
BJ Flores
Felix Cora Jr.
Dale Brown
Valery Brudov
Wayne Braithwaite
Guillermo Jones
Chris Bryd
Rocky fought at a disciplined 183-188 for the most part which places him in the middle of the cruiserweight limit. Looking back, how would he have done against guys like Marvin Camel, Lee Roy Murphy, Carlos Deleon, Dwight Braxton, Boone Pultz, Ralf Rocchigiani Bobby Czyz, Orlin Norris, Fabrice Tiozzo, Vassily Jirov, Virgil Hill, and James Toney? Perhaps the best matches would have been against Evander Holyfield (when he was a cruiserweight champion) and Dariuz Michalczewski.
When I compare Marciano to the top cruiserweights, I am comparing
apples to apples except for the difference in era. The task, however, is to engage facts before nostalgia. The lesson is to take into account all essential variables when making comparisons between old and modern. Variable such as number of fights, era (for example, the 70‘s were a great time for heavyweights and the 80‘s for middleweights), stamina, training techniques and methodology, records, style, chin, KO percentages, skill-sets, entire body of work,quality of opposition, management, etc.
When this is done, myth is stripped away from facts. When this is done, you are not engaging generational prejudice. Of course, I must confess when I do this; Rocky Marciano quickly becomes the greatest cruiserweight in history.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Sorry for deleting my post, I reread your article and was forming a different response when you replied. If I'd known you had replied, I would've left it up there.
So you feel Marciano would have beaten the likes of Holyfield, Toney etc. at CW?
Regardless, there's still a huge difference between being considered the best Cruiser of all time and the best Heavy of all time, I think that's what people take issue with.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Probably so, but I am not saying he is the best Heavy of all time. I am trying to strip away any bias my geneeration mught have influenced me with and look at this in objective terms. Would he have beaten a 230 pound Holyfield? Doubt it. Would he have beaten a Holyfield who beat The Camden Buzzsaw? Yes, I have no doubt he would have.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Aside from some evolutionaty factors, the heavweight division is the only one that has been variable--as fighters get bigger and bigger. The other weight classes have remained fixed.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
I suppose I should've given my opinion as well.
Like I said before, I don't know all that much about Marciano aside from his reputation. I think I've seen footage of two of his fights, so I'm far from an expert.
However, based upon what I do know, I think with an even playing field he would have a decent shot of defeating any Cruiserweight I can think of.
As I also said before, I think his detractors main problem with him is that he's referred to as the greatest Heavyweight of all time, which frankly is not true.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
I think another problem many people also have with Marciano is that his opposition wasn't that strong, they aren't going to get swayed by that undefeated record.
However he beat everyone in his path and took on all comers and you can only fight who's in front of you. He is an all time hw great, just not the greatest.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
I saw him fight (or heard the radio account) many times. He was a relentless killer in the ring with incredible stamina, tenacity, determination, and will. As for skills, he had deceptive ones including decent head movement and solid inside stuff, but technical skills were clearly not his forte. His power was both one punch and accumulative. He could ruin an opponent by hitting him on the arms and/or elbows as he did with LaStarza or simply destroy someone as he did with Lee Savold, Carmine Vingo, or Rex Layne. In my opinion, his two toughgest fights were both with Ted Lowery who fought out of New Bedford, Massachusetts. Lowry finished with an amazing 67-67-10 mark.
His first fight with Charles is a study of his courage.
Rocky was built strange (like a billy goat) and his neck was unbelievably strong which gave him a solid chin. He had sloping shoulders that he used to deflect punches. He also was a very fine all-around athlete which helped him in the ring. He also was a pretty sharp guy who had a very deceptively high ring IQ and knew where and what he was about all the time.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
I dont think it's bias so much as being stuck in what you-we know,what you can put your finger on at the moment.Happens all of the time with past fighters.And in todays media we are a bit spoiled,everything is at the touch of a finger.When you see a fighter....live, his rise and fall and length of entire career,there is nothing like that in the world and every generation thinks that they are seeing the very best....it sticks with you.What we cannot see is whats down the road in relation to the sport.New rules,new divisions,etc etc.We get a general idea but have to wait on that good ol' hindsight.....Maybe I'm off the reservation but by saying Marciano is the best Cruiser its to blur what he was at the time.Cruisers literally did not exist.In stature and in weight,he would have been categorized as one by todays standards but we did not know then what we know now.Times change,we evolve as do sports.Compare ANY athlete of a major sport during the 40's 50's and there is quite a contrast to todays athletes?Shite,off on a ramble here:dunce:.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I think another problem many people also have with Marciano is that his opposition wasn't that strong, they aren't going to get swayed by that undefeated record.
However he beat everyone in his path and took on all comers and you can only fight who's in front of you. He is an all time hw great, just not the greatest.
And I'll be happy to argue the opposition point any time, because he fought the best they had out there. Guys like Phil Muscato, Rex Layne, Moore (IBHF), Charles (IBHF), Walcott (IBHF), Louis (IBHF), LaStarza (57-9), Harry Matthews (90-7-6), and many other rugged hombres.
It was a era where fighters continued to take on the top flight opposition right to the end of their careers.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
I dont think it's bias so much as being stuck in what you-we know,what you can put your finger on at the moment.Happens all of the time with past fighters.And in todays media we are a bit spoiled,everything is at the touch of a finger.When you see a fighter....live, his rise and fall and length of entire career,there is nothing like that in the world and every generation thinks that they are seeing the very best....it sticks with you.What we cannot see is whats down the road in relation to the sport.New rules,new divisions,etc etc.We get a general idea but have to wait on that good ol' hindsight.....Maybe I'm off the reservation but by saying Marciano is the best Cruiser its to blur what he was at the time.Cruisers literally did not exist.In stature and in weight,he would have been categorized as one by todays standards but we did not know then what we know now.Times change,we evolve as do sports.Compare ANY athlete of a major sport during the 40's 50's and there is quite a contrast to todays athletes?Shite,off on a ramble here:dunce:.
I don't buy that. I'll concede the heavyweight point, but in a million years will I go so far as to say he was less than the elite when it came or comes to his weight today.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Am I being truculent? :confused:
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
I try to keep away from some of the what if this guy fought that guy scenarios as it can drive you as mad as the is there a God question!
But this thread is a bit more of an open question than a direct comparison between two fighters.
I was watching Marciano on the train on the way home last night. I think he was a lot more clever than he often gets credit for , what he lacked in polish he doubled in balls, so he made up for fighting the more stylish fighters by not trying to match them but simply outwork them and by also doing the unexpected like mentioned before he could simply beat your arms to death to get you !
If you look at the usual things like training techniques and nutrition and even the ability to study oponents like you can in the modern era, then I think he holds his own with any of the Cruisers.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
I dont think it's bias so much as being stuck in what you-we know,what you can put your finger on at the moment.Happens all of the time with past fighters.And in todays media we are a bit spoiled,everything is at the touch of a finger.When you see a fighter....live, his rise and fall and length of entire career,there is nothing like that in the world and every generation thinks that they are seeing the very best....it sticks with you.What we cannot see is whats down the road in relation to the sport.New rules,new divisions,etc etc.We get a general idea but have to wait on that good ol' hindsight.....Maybe I'm off the reservation but by saying Marciano is the best Cruiser its to blur what he was at the time.Cruisers literally did not exist.In stature and in weight,he would have been categorized as one by todays standards but we did not know then what we know now.Times change,we evolve as do sports.Compare ANY athlete of a major sport during the 40's 50's and there is quite a contrast to todays athletes?Shite,off on a ramble here:dunce:.
I don't buy that. I'll concede the heavyweight point, but in a million years will I go so far as to say he was less than the elite when it came or comes to his weight today.
How'd you get there?My man I'm speaking to the bigger picture,not dismissing the man.What I'm saying is that don't we question him on a broader scale by just re categorizing him?The man was a heavyweight for his era,a great one....but could they ever imagine size wise the top hvys of the last 10 + years.I'm not dismissing him as a fighter on the intangibles but heavyweight are not what they once were.Hence the Marciano vs Holyfield at cruiser ehh?Remember...bigger is not always better ;)
Oh and I like Holyfield by TKO late,many cuts;D
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I think another problem many people also have with Marciano is that his opposition wasn't that strong, they aren't going to get swayed by that undefeated record.
However he beat everyone in his path and took on all comers and you can only fight who's in front of you. He is an all time hw great, just not the greatest.
And I'll be happy to argue the opposition point any time, because he fought the best they had out there. Guys like Phil Muscato, Rex Layne, Moore (IBHF), Charles (IBHF), Walcott (IBHF), Louis (IBHF), LaStarza (57-9), Harry Matthews (90-7-6), and many other rugged hombres.
It was a era where fighters continued to take on the top flight opposition right to the end of their careers.
Like I said he was a great HW, just not the greatest and his opposition wasn't that good. You list guys like Charles, Walcott, Moore, and the great Joe Louis. But what age and condition were they in when Marciano beat them?
Charles was around 38 or 39 with many ring wars same with Walcott and Moore who started his career at middleweight that went on to become a great LHW. And Joe Louis was 37 and a shot fighter when he fought Marciano. Does that victory even count? That's like Larry Holmes beating up on a 38 year old and shot Muhammad ALi. Hell even Larry Holmes fans don't even count that victory.
A lot of the Hall of Fame guys Marciano fought that supposedly made him the greatest HW were either shot or old as hell, let's put that in the equation too.
And let's be honest now the only great and in his prime HW that Marciano fought was Muhammad ALi and that wasn't even a real fight but a simulation that had him knocking out ALi! I mean that's pretty sad that the best fight Marciano was in was a simulation.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
You can only compare marciano to cruiserweights, unless your willing to give him at least the average size and weight of today's heavyweights. Most heavyweights of yesteryear are way below even the average heavyweight's height, weight, reach stats today. Give heavyweights of yesteryear more height, weight and reach and add on training techniques, video and nutrition and i'm sure they'd do quite well.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Aside from some evolutionaty factors, the heavweight division is the only one that has been variable--as fighters get bigger and bigger. The other weight classes have remained fixed.
That is true, but the additioin of additional divisions such as SuperMiddle, Cruiser etc. has removed fighters that in the past would have been relatively small/large at a particular weight.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Marciano stands up pretty well against the Cruiserweight division. But then again, the Cruiserweight division has, for the most part, lacked inspiration.
Not many fighters have stamped their authority on this division and alot of fighters are old Light Heavyweights, or kids saving up to be Heavyweights.
However, you can only dominate what is infront of you and as we know Rocky did that with no problem.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Aside from some evolutionaty factors, the heavweight division is the only one that has been variable--as fighters get bigger and bigger. The other weight classes have remained fixed.
That is true, but the additioin of additional divisions such as SuperMiddle, Cruiser etc. has removed fighters that in the past would have been relatively small/large at a particular weight.
Point taken
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
I have no problem saying that Rocky Marciano would have been the greatest cruiser weight of all time, including beating the Holyfield that was undisputed champ (and even David Haye.)
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Yes
I certainly wouldn't compare him to Ali. Ali lost what- 5 fights? Chuck Wepner knocked Ali down, Bugner fought both Ali and Frasier (combined, a total of 39 rounds) and neither could put him down.
I think those of you pining for Ali and Frasier are fooling yourselves, they were not invincible.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Slowmotion426
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Yes
I certainly wouldn't compare him to Ali. Ali lost what- 5 fights?
You're right I wouldn't compare Marciano to Ali. Ali past his prime beat HW legends in their prime while Marciano in his prime beat great fighters that were shot, old, or both. Marciano's greatest victory was beating a shot 37 year old Joe Louis. And how old were Walcott, Charles, Moore when Marciano fought them?
Marciano's fans act like he beat a prime Louis, Moore, Charles, Walcott, when those guys were all old/shot.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I think another problem many people also have with Marciano is that his opposition wasn't that strong, they aren't going to get swayed by that undefeated record.
However he beat everyone in his path and took on all comers and you can only fight who's in front of you. He is an all time hw great, just not the greatest.
And I'll be happy to argue the opposition point any time, because he fought the best they had out there. Guys like Phil Muscato, Rex Layne, Moore (IBHF), Charles (IBHF), Walcott (IBHF), Louis (IBHF), LaStarza (57-9), Harry Matthews (90-7-6), and many other rugged hombres.
It was a era where fighters continued to take on the top flight opposition right to the end of their careers.
Guys like Muscato, Layne & Matthews were good solid pros, but they don't add any weight to a resume for somebody claiming to be an ATG.
Moore is a great name, but he was a veteran of about 200 fights by that time
Walcott was at the end of his career and had already lost a tonne of fights by this time
Charles - Again a veteran of some 70 fights, but was still the best win on Marciano's record imo
I would have liked to see Marciano fight any of the 3 above during their prime:-\
Maricano's opposition in terms of hs opponents win loss ratio is the worst of any of the so called great heavyweights (and the vast majority of the good ones)
He beat who was put in front of him and you can't knock an unbeaten record and I'm not syaing he was or wasn't the greatest, I'm just saying that we certainly can't use his resume as an argument in his favour.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I think another problem many people also have with Marciano is that his opposition wasn't that strong, they aren't going to get swayed by that undefeated record.
However he beat everyone in his path and took on all comers and you can only fight who's in front of you. He is an all time hw great, just not the greatest.
And I'll be happy to argue the opposition point any time, because he fought the best they had out there. Guys like Phil Muscato, Rex Layne, Moore (IBHF), Charles (IBHF), Walcott (IBHF), Louis (IBHF), LaStarza (57-9), Harry Matthews (90-7-6), and many other rugged hombres.
It was a era where fighters continued to take on the top flight opposition right to the end of their careers.
Guys like Muscato, Layne & Matthews were good solid pros, but they don't add any weight to a resume for somebody claiming to be an ATG.
Moore is a great name, but he was a veteran of about 200 fights by that time
Walcott was at the end of his career and had already lost a tonne of fights by this time
Charles - Again a veteran of some 70 fights, but was still the best win on Marciano's record imo
I would have liked to see Marciano fight any of the 3 above during their prime:-\
Maricano's opposition in terms of hs opponents win loss ratio is the worst of any of the so called great heavyweights (and the vast majority of the good ones)
He beat who was put in front of him and you can't knock an unbeaten record and I'm not syaing he was or wasn't the greatest, I'm just saying that we certainly can't use his resume as an argument in his favour.
Understood, but your dealing with what ifs, and I'm deaaling with whats--except when I make the argument at lighter weight which this is abouit.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
And I'll be happy to argue the opposition point any time, because he fought the best they had out there. Guys like Phil Muscato, Rex Layne, Moore (IBHF), Charles (IBHF), Walcott (IBHF), Louis (IBHF), LaStarza (57-9), Harry Matthews (90-7-6), and many other rugged hombres.
It was a era where fighters continued to take on the top flight opposition right to the end of their careers.
Guys like Muscato, Layne & Matthews were good solid pros, but they don't add any weight to a resume for somebody claiming to be an ATG.
Moore is a great name, but he was a veteran of about 200 fights by that time
Walcott was at the end of his career and had already lost a tonne of fights by this time
Charles - Again a veteran of some 70 fights, but was still the best win on Marciano's record imo
I would have liked to see Marciano fight any of the 3 above during their prime:-\
Maricano's opposition in terms of hs opponents win loss ratio is the worst of any of the so called great heavyweights (and the vast majority of the good ones)
He beat who was put in front of him and you can't knock an unbeaten record and I'm not syaing he was or wasn't the greatest, I'm just saying that we certainly can't use his resume as an argument in his favour.
Understood, but your dealing with what ifs, and I'm deaaling with whats--except when I make the argument at lighter weight which this is abouit.
I would love to have seen Marciano versus these guys in their prime at Crusier - some great fights there....
Michael Spinks
Archie Moore
Ezzard Charles
Evander Holyfield
Roy Jones Jnr
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Guys like Muscato, Layne & Matthews were good solid pros, but they don't add any weight to a resume for somebody claiming to be an ATG.
Moore is a great name, but he was a veteran of about 200 fights by that time
Walcott was at the end of his career and had already lost a tonne of fights by this time
Charles - Again a veteran of some 70 fights, but was still the best win on Marciano's record imo
I would have liked to see Marciano fight any of the 3 above during their prime:-\
Maricano's opposition in terms of hs opponents win loss ratio is the worst of any of the so called great heavyweights (and the vast majority of the good ones)
He beat who was put in front of him and you can't knock an unbeaten record and I'm not syaing he was or wasn't the greatest, I'm just saying that we certainly can't use his resume as an argument in his favour.
Understood, but your dealing with what ifs, and I'm deaaling with whats--except when I make the argument at lighter weight which this is abouit.
I would love to have seen Marciano versus these guys in their prime at Crusier - some great fights there....
Michael Spinks
Archie Moore
Ezzard Charles
Evander Holyfield
Roy Jones Jnr
Me too!!
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Understood, but your dealing with what ifs, and I'm deaaling with whats--except when I make the argument at lighter weight which this is abouit.
I would love to have seen Marciano versus these guys in their prime at Crusier - some great fights there....
Michael Spinks
Archie Moore
Ezzard Charles
Evander Holyfield
Roy Jones Jnr
Me too!!
Who come out on top in that Super six though? :-\
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
I would love to have seen Marciano versus these guys in their prime at Crusier - some great fights there....
Michael Spinks
Archie Moore
Ezzard Charles
Evander Holyfield
Roy Jones Jnr
Me too!!
Who come out on top in that Super six though? :-\
I respect Rocky Marciano and normally defend him, when people call him overrated and ETC. But against some of the modern greats at Light Heavyweight/Cruiserweight, he would lose to most of them. He just hasn't got the skills, speed, athletism, to hang with people like James Toney, Roy Jones Jr.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
You never know who is going to win until you get them in the ring.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Generational Bias
I have always adhered to two principles. The first one is to train hard
and get in the best possible physical condition. The second is to forget all about the other fellow until you face him in the ring and the bell sounds for the fight.
–Rocky Marciano
The latest is the greatest
–Anonymous
I loved Rocky Marciano for any number of reasons not the least of
which is that he was from my era and my generation. That he was an Italian didn’t hurt much either. I also thought he was a great fighter who did what he had to do against everyone they put in from of him. After all, 49-0 is a perfect record.
Of course, looking through the prism of nostalgia makes everything
seem better and I like to play out old school memories just like
other old timers. However, I also try to be thoughtful and objective
when making comparisons between the past and the present–and that’s where the issue of generational prejudice comes in (some call it “era” prejudice). And that’s where comparisons between The Rock and modern fighters come in as well.
Should he be compared to recent heavyweights in the mold of Ali,
George Foreman or Wladimir Klitschko? Of course not. He simply was not big enough, but how about comparing him to the likes of the following who fight at Cruiserweight (175-200 lb (90.72 kg):
O’Neil Bell
Enzo Maccarinelli
Vadim Tokarev
Jean Marc Mormeck
David Haye
Emmanuel Nwodo
Matt Godfrey
Steve Cunningham
Rico Hoye
Krzysztof Wlodarczyk
Marco Huck
Grigory Drozd
Pietro Aurino
Johnathon Banks
BJ Flores
Felix Cora Jr.
Dale Brown
Valery Brudov
Wayne Braithwaite
Guillermo Jones
Chris Bryd
Rocky fought at a disciplined 183-188 for the most part which places him in the middle of the cruiserweight limit. Looking back, how would he have done against guys like Marvin Camel, Lee Roy Murphy, Carlos Deleon, Dwight Braxton, Boone Pultz, Ralf Rocchigiani Bobby Czyz, Orlin Norris, Fabrice Tiozzo, Vassily Jirov, Virgil Hill, and James Toney? Perhaps the best matches would have been against Evander Holyfield (when he was a cruiserweight champion) and Dariuz Michalczewski.
When I compare Marciano to the top cruiserweights, I am comparing
apples to apples except for the difference in era. The task, however, is to engage facts before nostalgia. The lesson is to take into account all essential variables when making comparisons between old and modern. Variable such as number of fights, era (for example, the 70‘s were a great time for heavyweights and the 80‘s for middleweights), stamina, training techniques and methodology, records, style, chin, KO percentages, skill-sets, entire body of work,quality of opposition, management, etc.
When this is done, myth is stripped away from facts. When this is done, you are not engaging generational prejudice. Of course, I must confess when I do this; Rocky Marciano quickly becomes the greatest cruiserweight in history.
Great statement mate,and i have to agree with the point.Marciano was a relentless raw breed of cruiser and heavy weight fighter there ever was.
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
I would love to have seen Marciano versus these guys in their prime at Crusier - some great fights there....
Michael Spinks
Archie Moore
Ezzard Charles
Evander Holyfield
Roy Jones Jnr
Me too!!
Who come out on top in that Super six though? :-\
The Rock!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Now if only Archie Moore was just a little younger and just as wise, and if Ezzard was in good health I'd like to see if Marciano could take them.
:thinking2:
Archie hit Marciano with an uppercut that turned his head into a merry-go-round, and out of the guys, a top flight Ezzard Charles would have the best chance of out boxing Rocky.
Otherwise, undoubtedly I'd go with Rocco all the way. ;D
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
I think the era helped Him. when you realise who was running Boxing at that time ;D
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
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Re: Marciano and Generational Bias
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
I believe Holmcall is a writer. I would image that he wrote that piece and simply transferred it here.
