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30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Thought would see what peoples opinions are on a fight between those two Larry Holmes V Lennox Lewis say if fight took place and they were both 30 years old...I think Larry Holmes might win on points.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nigel2smooth
Thought would see what peoples opinions are on a fight between those two Larry Holmes V Lennox Lewis say if fight took place and they were both 30 years old...I think Larry Holmes might win on points.
Larry Holmes comfortably on points, he has the better jab. Lennox Lewis got out jabbed by Ray Mercer, Frank Bruno. So i don't see how he deals with Larry Holmes's jab.
He's also faster, has better stamina, more athletic, better footwork, better chin. He basically holds most advantages over Lennox Lewis, except power but Larry Holmes has a very good chin, and has the heart to get up and win.
Larry Holmes by UD pretty comfortably.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Larry Holmes would I be right in saying is a little underated,to be honest I have not really seen a lot of him but what I have seen he seems to be pretty good.I wonder if he was a little younger would he off had chance with Tyson.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
holmes was unlucky to get his upercut caught in the ropes against tyson & have his chin fully exposed for the knock out, yo 2smooth i agree holmes is underated but so is lewis, would be a close fight but i would give it to lewis, just
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Holmes would find an easy target with Lewis, Holmes by a wide UD.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nigel2smooth
Thought would see what peoples opinions are on a fight between those two Larry Holmes V Lennox Lewis say if fight took place and they were both 30 years old...I think Larry Holmes might win on points.
Larry Holmes comfortably on points, he has the better jab. Lennox Lewis got out jabbed by Ray Mercer, Frank Bruno. So i don't see how he deals with Larry Holmes's jab.
He's also faster, has better stamina, more athletic, better footwork, better chin. He basically holds most advantages over Lennox Lewis, except power but Larry Holmes has a very good chin, and has the heart to get up and win.
Larry Holmes by UD pretty comfortably.
Larry Holmes comfortably? U gotta be kidding, i doubt there is a heavyweight all time that could beat Lewis comfortably. Holmes was not faster than Lewis, Lennox also had far more power and is a bigger man. Yes Holmes has a better jab but Lewis had alround better skills. To just dismiss Lewis and say Holmes would win easy is crap.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Well spotted Drago, I have often thought that! Holmes is underrated and would have outboxed Lewis. It would not have been a walk in the park as Lewis has a great deal of heart and has great power. Lewis became a bit oafish in his later years as he put on the pounds and I could see Holmes using his athleticism to out finesse Lennox. Maybe I am biased as I am a huge Larry Holmes fan.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Great Fighters the pair of them, but Lewis flaw was He couldnt handle a fast Jab caused Him all sorts of Problems. Holmes wins for me.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Interesting debate,I have to admit I know a lot more about Lewis as I grew up watching him,only seen couple Holmes fights.Did Holmes have a good punch,I must check You Tube out and see if there is some of his fights on there.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nigel2smooth
Thought would see what peoples opinions are on a fight between those two Larry Holmes V Lennox Lewis say if fight took place and they were both 30 years old...I think Larry Holmes might win on points.
Larry Holmes comfortably on points, he has the better jab. Lennox Lewis got out jabbed by Ray Mercer, Frank Bruno. So i don't see how he deals with Larry Holmes's jab.
He's also faster, has better stamina, more athletic, better footwork, better chin. He basically holds most advantages over Lennox Lewis, except power but Larry Holmes has a very good chin, and has the heart to get up and win.
Larry Holmes by UD pretty comfortably.
Larry Holmes comfortably? U gotta be kidding, i doubt there is a heavyweight all time that could beat Lewis comfortably. Holmes was not faster than Lewis, Lennox also had far more power and is a bigger man. Yes Holmes has a better jab but Lewis had alround better skills. To just dismiss Lewis and say Holmes would win easy is crap.
Larry Holmes was not faster than Lennox Lewis, are you seriously kidding me ? Larry Holmes was much faster than Lennox Lewis, regarding putting punches together and moving round the ring.
Larry Holmes was also a better all round fighter, he could box he could brawl. He could also fight off the ropes, im sorry but Frank Bruno jabbed Lennox Lewis's socks off.
Lennox Lewis was always off balance and couldn't put his punches together, and he would of lost that fight. If Frank Bruno had survival instincts, and i still think it was a bit of a lucky punch aswell.
And then theres the fight with Ray Mercer, when Lennox Lewis allowed himself to get in trouble. Against a much smaller mans jab.
Im sorry but i think Larry Holmes, would of convincingly beaten Lennox Lewis over 12 rounds atleast by 4 rounds.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nigel2smooth
Thought would see what peoples opinions are on a fight between those two Larry Holmes V Lennox Lewis say if fight took place and they were both 30 years old...I think Larry Holmes might win on points.
Larry Holmes comfortably on points, he has the better jab.
Lennox Lewis got out jabbed by Ray Mercer, Frank Bruno. So i don't see how he deals with Larry Holmes's jab.
He's also faster, has better stamina, more athletic, better footwork, better chin. He basically holds most advantages over Lennox Lewis, except power but Larry Holmes has a very good chin, and has the heart to get up and win.
Larry Holmes by UD pretty comfortably.
He still won though
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
I really dont see a walk in the park for either guy and think Lewis has a great shot.Holmes Jab is one for the ages,belongs encased in glass in the Smithsonian but Lewis had a nice stick as well,not to mention natural height,weight and pure size Holmes had rarely...if ever faced the likes of?Cooney?Holmes was a crafty gamesmen,sharp mind just as Lewis had shown to be and while Lewis's mind wandered in spots....lack of prep...he could close range quickly and be explosive with either hand.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nigel2smooth
Thought would see what peoples opinions are on a fight between those two Larry Holmes V Lennox Lewis say if fight took place and they were both 30 years old...I think Larry Holmes might win on points.
Larry Holmes comfortably on points, he has the better jab. Lennox Lewis got out jabbed by Ray Mercer, Frank Bruno. So i don't see how he deals with Larry Holmes's jab.
He's also faster, has better stamina, more athletic, better footwork, better chin. He basically holds most advantages over Lennox Lewis, except power but Larry Holmes has a very good chin, and has the heart to get up and win.
Larry Holmes by UD pretty comfortably.
Larry Holmes comfortably? U gotta be kidding, i doubt there is a heavyweight all time that could beat Lewis comfortably. Holmes was not faster than Lewis, Lennox also had far more power and is a bigger man. Yes Holmes has a better jab but Lewis had alround better skills. To just dismiss Lewis and say Holmes would win easy
is crap.
Well i must be a little backed up, pass me a laxative. Holmes would be landing 2-3 punches to one in any match up with Lewis, he beats him easily over 12 rounds.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
I really dont see a walk in the park for either guy and think Lewis has a great shot.Holmes Jab is one for the ages,belongs encased in glass in the Smithsonian but Lewis had a nice stick as well,not to mention natural height,weight and pure size Holmes had rarely...if ever faced the likes of?Cooney?Holmes was a crafty gamesmen,sharp mind just as Lewis had shown to be and while Lewis's mind wandered in spots....lack of prep...he could close range quickly and be explosive with either hand.
Well Larry Holmes while being, quite a bit past his prime. Did defeat 6'5 Carl Williams in a close fight.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nigel2smooth
Thought would see what peoples opinions are on a fight between those two Larry Holmes V Lennox Lewis say if fight took place and they were both 30 years old...I think Larry Holmes might win on points.
Larry Holmes comfortably on points, he has the better jab.
Lennox Lewis got out jabbed by Ray Mercer, Frank Bruno. So i don't see how he deals with Larry Holmes's jab.
He's also faster, has better stamina, more athletic, better footwork, better chin. He basically holds most advantages over Lennox Lewis, except power but Larry Holmes has a very good chin, and has the heart to get up and win.
Larry Holmes by UD pretty comfortably.
He still won though
Yes but thats Ray Mercer, Frank Bruno, two fighters who couldn't carry Larry Holmes's spit bucket. And to be honest i thought the Ray Mercer fight was very close, and i had it a draw. And remember a 42 year old Larry Holmes handled Ray Mercer comfortably over 12 rounds.
And i had Lennox Lewis behind against Frank Bruno, until he swung a desperate wild left hook out of the corner, which turned the fight in his favor and he got the stoppage which is too his credit, but still Frank Bruno has no survival instincts at all. And he everytime he's got in serious trouble he hasn't a clue what to do.
My point was not to discredit Lennox Lewis, my point was that he struggled against fighters with decent jabs. And i seriously can't see him beating the best Heavyweiht jabber of all time, if he struggled against Ray Mercer's jab.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
I really dont see a walk in the park for either guy and think Lewis has a great shot.Holmes Jab is one for the ages,belongs encased in glass in the Smithsonian but Lewis had a nice stick as well,not to mention natural height,weight and pure size Holmes had rarely...if ever faced the likes of?Cooney?Holmes was a crafty gamesmen,sharp mind just as Lewis had shown to be and while Lewis's mind wandered in spots....lack of prep...he could close range quickly and be explosive with either hand.
Well Larry Holmes while being, quite a bit past his prime. Did defeat 6'5 Carl Williams in a close fight.
No doubt.Freakish reach as well,but a pretty raw Williams who had not the arsenal-power of Lewis....and a chin which makes Lewis's look like solid granite.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Larry Holmes comfortably on points, he has the better jab. Lennox Lewis got out jabbed by Ray Mercer, Frank Bruno. So i don't see how he deals with Larry Holmes's jab.
He's also faster, has better stamina, more athletic, better footwork, better chin. He basically holds most advantages over Lennox Lewis, except power but Larry Holmes has a very good chin, and has the heart to get up and win.
Larry Holmes by UD pretty comfortably.
Larry Holmes comfortably? U gotta be kidding, i doubt there is a heavyweight all time that could beat Lewis comfortably. Holmes was not faster than Lewis, Lennox also had far more power and is a bigger man. Yes Holmes has a better jab but Lewis had alround better skills. To just dismiss Lewis and say Holmes would win easy is crap.
Larry Holmes was not faster than Lennox Lewis, are you seriously kidding me ? Larry Holmes was much faster than Lennox Lewis, regarding putting punches together and moving round the ring.
Larry Holmes was also a better all round fighter, he could box he could brawl. He could also fight off the ropes, im sorry but Frank Bruno jabbed Lennox Lewis's socks off.
Lennox Lewis was always off balance and couldn't put his punches together, and he would of lost that fight. If Frank Bruno had survival instincts, and i still think it was a bit of a lucky punch aswell.
And then theres the fight with Ray Mercer, when Lennox Lewis allowed himself to get in trouble. Against a much smaller mans jab.
Im sorry but i think Larry Holmes, would of convincingly beaten Lennox Lewis over 12 rounds atleast by 4 rounds.
So Brunos jab gave Lewis trouble, Lennox still knocked him the fuck out, and still won v Mercer. Oh so u thought it was a lucky punch? Well it must have been cos u know all..... Lucky punch my ass. You are looking at Holmes thru rose glasses my friend, Lewis was as dominant at heavyweight as Holmes was, but in a much stronger era. Just match up their opponents, Lewis's are a mile better than Holmes. Guys who could match Holmes for size and similiar skill gave him trouble eg Norton and Witherspoon. If Tim Witherspoon and Ken Norton could push a prime Holmes to a close decision i daresay Lewis could do as well if not better.
How is the chess going?
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Lennox takes it by comfortable decision
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
I was watching boxing when it was on commercial television two to four times a week just to get that out of the way. Larry Holmes was in Ali's shadow so he was grossly underrated. One more thing, I am not in any way a Holmes fan but he won and usually with no doubt. He was never caught napping when he was champ. He did lose to Micheal Spinks but Holmes was no longer a young man. Lennox has been out hustled even in his prime and lost his title to an emotionall unstable man in one instance and a lucky one in the second instance because he lacked conentration and Rahman was a lucky bastard. Holmes was hard to hit and you could find Lennox. Sometimes you'd have to wonder which Lennox was showing up but nonetheless he kept winning and evry so often he was baited into ugly situations but Larry made you ugly. Get the picture? Holmes-Tyson? Larry was looking for his pipe and slippers, the show was over andf the same can be said for Iron Mike being a rusty pipe bent by Lennox the plumber, it was all over.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Larry Holmes comfortably? U gotta be kidding, i doubt there is a heavyweight all time that could beat Lewis comfortably. Holmes was not faster than Lewis, Lennox also had far more power and is a bigger man. Yes Holmes has a better jab but Lewis had alround better skills. To just dismiss Lewis and say Holmes would win easy is crap.
Larry Holmes was not faster than Lennox Lewis, are you seriously kidding me ? Larry Holmes was much faster than Lennox Lewis, regarding putting punches together and moving round the ring.
Larry Holmes was also a better all round fighter, he could box he could brawl. He could also fight off the ropes, im sorry but Frank Bruno jabbed Lennox Lewis's socks off.
Lennox Lewis was always off balance and couldn't put his punches together, and he would of lost that fight. If Frank Bruno had survival instincts, and i still think it was a bit of a lucky punch aswell.
And then theres the fight with Ray Mercer, when Lennox Lewis allowed himself to get in trouble. Against a much smaller mans jab.
Im sorry but i think Larry Holmes, would of convincingly beaten Lennox Lewis over 12 rounds atleast by 4 rounds.
So Brunos jab gave Lewis trouble, Lennox still knocked him the fuck out, and still won v Mercer. Oh so u thought it was a lucky punch? Well it must have been cos u know all..... Lucky punch my ass. You are looking at Holmes thru rose glasses my friend, Lewis was as dominant at heavyweight as Holmes was, but in a much stronger era. Just match up their opponents, Lewis's are a mile better than Holmes. Guys who could match Holmes for size and similiar skill gave him trouble eg Norton and Witherspoon. If Tim Witherspoon and Ken Norton could push a prime Holmes to a close decision i daresay Lewis could do as well if not better.
How is the chess going?
I don't know why your acting, so aggressively. I never said i know it all and i never said my opinion is right. No one can ever be right in mythical match ups, i just think Larry Holmes's jab would be the key to beating Lennox Lewis. Because he struggled against fighters with decent jabs.
And yes i do think the punch against Frank Bruno, was lucky. He was up until that point getting totally thrown off by Frank Bruno's jab, and he got trapped in the corner, and swung a wild left hook out of desperation. Which saved the fight for him to his credit, but that showed he could be beaten by fighters with decent jabs, and this was also evident in the Ray Mercer fight aswell.
Im sorry but i think Larry Holmes, pretty much does everything better than Lennox Lewis except for power.
Larry Holmes beat Ken Norton more convincingly than Muhammad Ali ever did, with a torn bicep. Which actually makes Larry Holmes look better.
As for Tim Witherspoon he was almost exactly like Ken Norton, in his prime. A terrific fighter who let himself go, but again he had that crab like style, to bother Larry Holmes's boxing just like Ken Norton.
I don't see these two fights, as evidence that Lennox Lewis would bother Larry Holmes IMO.
Lastly you said Lennox Lewis beat much better opposition ? im not sure about that. But im too tired to compare there records at the moment, but maybe you can pull the stats out for me, because im far too tired.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Classic match up for me this one. I think both Lewis and Holmes were at their peak aged 32, but aged 30 is a good point to match them.
Like has been said before Lewis did struggle (not always!) with fast long jabs, but again, as already said, he always found a way to win against them. To say that Holmes would easily beat Lewis is way off imo. NOBODY ever outboxed Lennox Lewis, he got KTFO twice by great punches and was well matched against Mercer and Klitchko, but he was never outboxed and soundly beaten over the course of a fight. That said, I still think Holmes was marginally better and would've jabbed his way to a UD.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
IMO Holmes is the most underrated ever due to the fact he followed Ali but also he pissed people off with all his bullshit talk.(still is today)
But that does not take away the fact that on his night IMO Holmes could beat any heavyweight in history.
As has already been said Holmes jab would be the key keeping Lewis off balence (which was not always great anyway).
I think Lewis would struggle to get himself into any pattern and be just looking to try and land the big right.
Holmes on points.;D
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
I see a lot of decisions here. This fight I don't think would have gone the entire 12 or 15 rounds. I liked Lennox Lewis very much. Way more than Frank Bruno. And I saw Larry Holmes overall as the best heavyweight of the 1980s including Tyson. Had Tyson fought Holmes in Holmes prime, I think Holmes would have picked him apart for a decision like Lewis did with David Tua.
Holmes against Lewis in their primes would have been an all out war, where I could see Holmes getting knocked down and coming back to stop Lewis like he did against Ernie Shavers.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
I don't know if I'd bet on him, but I give a properly motivated and sufficiently active Lewis a decent chance. Lewis tended to do just what needed to be done in order to win. He certainly had the power to deal with Holmes.
Lewis - Tyson was kind of an exception. Tyson was way past it, but Lewis let it all hang out, showing much more of everything than he usually did.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Hard to seperate them as they are pretty equal in most departments. Holmes had the better chin while Lennox had the greater power.
Lennox edges a decision.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
at 30 Larry...The 35 yr old version of Lennox beats any version of Larry...Lennox did not become a true master of the ring until later in his career
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Larry Holmes was not faster than Lennox Lewis, are you seriously kidding me ? Larry Holmes was much faster than Lennox Lewis, regarding putting punches together and moving round the ring.
Larry Holmes was also a better all round fighter, he could box he could brawl. He could also fight off the ropes, im sorry but Frank Bruno jabbed Lennox Lewis's socks off.
Lennox Lewis was always off balance and couldn't put his punches together, and he would of lost that fight. If Frank Bruno had survival instincts, and i still think it was a bit of a lucky punch aswell.
And then theres the fight with Ray Mercer, when Lennox Lewis allowed himself to get in trouble. Against a much smaller mans jab.
Im sorry but i think Larry Holmes, would of convincingly beaten Lennox Lewis over 12 rounds atleast by 4 rounds.
So Brunos jab gave Lewis trouble, Lennox still knocked him the fuck out, and still won v Mercer. Oh so u thought it was a lucky punch? Well it must have been cos u know all..... Lucky punch my ass. You are looking at Holmes thru rose glasses my friend, Lewis was as dominant at heavyweight as Holmes was, but in a much stronger era. Just match up their opponents, Lewis's are a mile better than Holmes. Guys who could match Holmes for size and similiar skill gave him trouble eg Norton and Witherspoon. If Tim Witherspoon and Ken Norton could push a prime Holmes to a close decision i daresay Lewis could do as well if not better.
How is the chess going?
I don't know why your acting, so aggressively. I never said i know it all and i never said my opinion is right. No one can ever be right in mythical match ups, i just think Larry Holmes's jab would be the key to beating Lennox Lewis. Because he struggled against fighters with decent jabs.
And yes i do think the punch against Frank Bruno, was lucky. He was up until that point getting totally thrown off by Frank Bruno's jab, and he got trapped in the corner, and swung a wild left hook out of desperation. Which saved the fight for him to his credit, but that showed he could be beaten by fighters with decent jabs, and this was also evident in the Ray Mercer fight aswell.
Im sorry but i think Larry Holmes, pretty much does everything better than Lennox Lewis except for power.
Larry Holmes beat Ken Norton more convincingly than Muhammad Ali ever did, with a torn bicep. Which actually makes Larry Holmes look better.
As for Tim Witherspoon he was almost exactly like Ken Norton, in his prime. A terrific fighter who let himself go, but again he had that crab like style, to bother Larry Holmes's boxing just like Ken Norton.
I don't see these two fights, as evidence that Lennox Lewis would bother Larry Holmes IMO.
Lastly you said Lennox Lewis beat much better opposition ? im not sure about that. But im too tired to compare there records at the moment, but maybe you can pull the stats out for me, because im far too tired.
To say Larry nwould win is one thing but to say Lewis would not even bother Larry is another...You talk out of your ass sometimes.....
Thats why people on the forums get aggressive with you and when you can't come up with a good arguement you want to go to paper stats...
As for opp they beat
Holmes opp he won against had a combined 1270-379 w/l ratio
Lewis had 1064/229 w/l ratio
Larry accomplished this with 69 wins
Lennox with 41 wins
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
most peoples opinions seems to be a close fight which is the way i think of it also. cant remember who said it but i think holmes would of beaten tyson in their primes, but i think lewis beats tyson in their primes also
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
So Brunos jab gave Lewis trouble, Lennox still knocked him the fuck out, and still won v Mercer. Oh so u thought it was a lucky punch? Well it must have been cos u know all..... Lucky punch my ass. You are looking at Holmes thru rose glasses my friend, Lewis was as dominant at heavyweight as Holmes was, but in a much stronger era. Just match up their opponents, Lewis's are a mile better than Holmes. Guys who could match Holmes for size and similiar skill gave him trouble eg Norton and Witherspoon. If Tim Witherspoon and Ken Norton could push a prime Holmes to a close decision i daresay Lewis could do as well if not better.
How is the chess going?
I don't know why your acting, so aggressively. I never said i know it all and i never said my opinion is right. No one can ever be right in mythical match ups, i just think Larry Holmes's jab would be the key to beating Lennox Lewis. Because he struggled against fighters with decent jabs.
And yes i do think the punch against Frank Bruno, was lucky. He was up until that point getting totally thrown off by Frank Bruno's jab, and he got trapped in the corner, and swung a wild left hook out of desperation. Which saved the fight for him to his credit, but that showed he could be beaten by fighters with decent jabs, and this was also evident in the Ray Mercer fight aswell.
Im sorry but i think Larry Holmes, pretty much does everything better than Lennox Lewis except for power.
Larry Holmes beat Ken Norton more convincingly than Muhammad Ali ever did, with a torn bicep. Which actually makes Larry Holmes look better.
As for Tim Witherspoon he was almost exactly like Ken Norton, in his prime. A terrific fighter who let himself go, but again he had that crab like style, to bother Larry Holmes's boxing just like Ken Norton.
I don't see these two fights, as evidence that Lennox Lewis would bother Larry Holmes IMO.
Lastly you said Lennox Lewis beat much better opposition ? im not sure about that. But im too tired to compare there records at the moment, but maybe you can pull the stats out for me, because im far too tired.
To say Larry nwould win is one thing but to say Lewis would not even bother Larry is another...You talk out of your ass sometimes.....
Thats why people on the forums get aggressive with you and when you can't come up with a good arguement you want to go to paper stats...
As for opp they beat
Holmes opp he won against had a combined 1270-379 w/l ratio
Lewis had 1064/229 w/l ratio
Larry accomplished this with 69 wins
Lennox with 41 wins
Why don't you read my previous post, i said i think Larry Holmes would win by 4 points. I never said Lennox Lewis wouldn't bother Larry Holmes, don't put words into my mouth. I said i think he would win comfortable decision, meaning points wise which is why i said by 4 points.
I never said he would beat Lennox Lewis from pillar to post for 12 rounds, without ever having problems.
And where have i brought out stats in this thread ? infact i don't actually use stats that often. I think i've gave very good argument why i think Larry Holmes would win. And are you honestly telling me, i got to paper stats when i can't debate something. Are you kidding me ? i thought i've always been a pretty decent debater. And i debate on many different era's and fighters, and i've done it without stats.
No comment's on any of my post's in this thread, should be replied to in an aggressive manner. All i've done is state my opinion, while backing it up with some good arguments.
I don't think Lennox Lewis would be able to deal with Larry Holmes's jab, sorry but i don't. And i think he would beat Lennox Lewis comfortably on points, it wouldn't be easy but there's no doubt in my mind. Larry Holmes would be the clear winner.
Lastly people can get as annoyed at my post, as they want. I don't really care i've said nothing wrong, and an opinion shouldn't make anyone annoyed unless its a ridiculous one. But my opinion isn't ridiculous and its an opinion backed up with a good case.
Doesn't mean its right doesn't mean its wrong, as i said to Eagle no one can ever be right discussing mythical match ups.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
I can't give Lewis flack for the Mercer fight.I think he was making a statement as co feature to Holyfield.He sat in with a fit and ready Mercer who was on a nice run,had just jabbed the heck outta Holyfield in a good display of boxing turned shoot out.Maybe not smart for Lewis but that was a turning point for me as far as respecting him.Mercer has always had a short blunt jab...irony was he fancied himself a one man wrecking crew leading up to fight with ancient Holmes as he had just battered Morrison and came back from the brink of defeat with one punch KO over Damiani.He took it all for granted.Of all things it was Mercer outjabbing Holmes at least in round 1,had Holmes on rubber legs with a jab.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I don't know why your acting, so aggressively. I never said i know it all and i never said my opinion is right. No one can ever be right in mythical match ups, i just think Larry Holmes's jab would be the key to beating Lennox Lewis. Because he struggled against fighters with decent jabs.
And yes i do think the punch against Frank Bruno, was lucky. He was up until that point getting totally thrown off by Frank Bruno's jab, and he got trapped in the corner, and swung a wild left hook out of desperation. Which saved the fight for him to his credit, but that showed he could be beaten by fighters with decent jabs, and this was also evident in the Ray Mercer fight aswell.
Im sorry but i think Larry Holmes, pretty much does everything better than Lennox Lewis except for power.
Larry Holmes beat Ken Norton more convincingly than Muhammad Ali ever did, with a torn bicep. Which actually makes Larry Holmes look better.
As for Tim Witherspoon he was almost exactly like Ken Norton, in his prime. A terrific fighter who let himself go, but again he had that crab like style, to bother Larry Holmes's boxing just like Ken Norton.
I don't see these two fights, as evidence that Lennox Lewis would bother Larry Holmes IMO.
Lastly you said Lennox Lewis beat much better opposition ? im not sure about that. But im too tired to compare there records at the moment, but maybe you can pull the stats out for me, because im far too tired.
To say Larry nwould win is one thing but to say Lewis would not even bother Larry is another...You talk out of your ass sometimes.....
Thats why people on the forums get aggressive with you and when you can't come up with a good arguement you want to go to paper stats...
As for opp they beat
Holmes opp he won against had a combined 1270-379 w/l ratio
Lewis had 1064/229 w/l ratio
Larry accomplished this with 69 wins
Lennox with 41 wins
Why don't you read my previous post, i said i think Larry Holmes would win by 4 points. I never said Lennox Lewis wouldn't bother Larry Holmes, don't put words into my mouth. I said i think he would win comfortable decision, meaning points wise which is why i said by 4 points.
I never said he would beat Lennox Lewis from pillar to post for 12 rounds, without ever having problems.
And where have i brought out stats in this thread ? infact i don't actually use stats that often. I think i've gave very good argument why i think Larry Holmes would win. And are you honestly telling me, i got to paper stats when i can't debate something. Are you kidding me ? i thought i've always been a pretty decent debater. And i debate on many different era's and fighters, and i've done it without stats.
No comment's on any of my post's in this thread, should be replied to in an aggressive manner. All i've done is state my opinion, while backing it up with some good arguments.
I don't think Lennox Lewis would be able to deal with Larry Holmes's jab, sorry but i don't. And i think he would beat Lennox Lewis comfortably on points, it wouldn't be easy but there's no doubt in my mind. Larry Holmes would be the clear winner.
Lastly people can get as annoyed at my post, as they want. I don't really care i've said nothing wrong, and an opinion shouldn't make anyone annoyed unless its a ridiculous one. But my opinion isn't ridiculous and its an opinion backed up with a good case.
Doesn't mean its right doesn't mean its wrong, as i said to Eagle no one can ever be right discussing mythical match ups.
Ice, I think people can get a bit wound up because with certain boxers (Larry Holmes & James Toney most particularly) you tend to come across as if they were unbeatable & would have destroyed all & sundry.
Your assessment of Holmes acheivements could just as easily be turned around. For example on the Holmes/Norton debate, whilst you feel Holmes won it handily, I thought Norton just took it, & for my mind this was a Norton a little shot by the Ali trilogy. You might disagree with that, but others will get a bit irritated if you constantly twist the facts in a context that suits your fighter, which I think was what Daxx was implying.
However, whilst I disagree with your arguments for why, I do agree that Holmes would probably beat Lewis, I think his jab was just that fantastic that it could take him to a win & although I think Lewis would have him down, I reckon Holmes would just carry it over for a close & controversial decision.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
I can't give Lewis flack for the Mercer fight.I think he was making a statement as co feature to Holyfield.He sat in with a fit and ready Mercer who was on a nice run,had just jabbed the heck outta Holyfield in a good display of boxing turned shoot out.Maybe not smart for Lewis but that was a turning point for me as far as respecting him.Mercer has always had a short blunt jab...irony was he fancied himself a one man wrecking crew leading up to fight with ancient Holmes as he had just battered Morrison and came back from the brink of defeat with one punch KO over Damiani.He took it all for granted.Of all things it was Mercer outjabbing Holmes at least in round 1,had Holmes on rubber legs with a jab.
Ray Mercer never outjabbed Larry Holmes, he caught Larry Holmes. With a sharp jab coming in, that caught Larry Holmes by suprise and had him off balance. Other than that Ray Mercer was given a boxing, when Larry Holmes was 42. Where as a prime Lennox Lewis just about beat Ray Mercer by the skin of his teeth.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
To say Larry nwould win is one thing but to say Lewis would not even bother Larry is another...You talk out of your ass sometimes.....
Thats why people on the forums get aggressive with you and when you can't come up with a good arguement you want to go to paper stats...
As for opp they beat
Holmes opp he won against had a combined 1270-379 w/l ratio
Lewis had 1064/229 w/l ratio
Larry accomplished this with 69 wins
Lennox with 41 wins
Why don't you read my previous post, i said i think Larry Holmes would win by 4 points. I never said Lennox Lewis wouldn't bother Larry Holmes, don't put words into my mouth. I said i think he would win comfortable decision, meaning points wise which is why i said by 4 points.
I never said he would beat Lennox Lewis from pillar to post for 12 rounds, without ever having problems.
And where have i brought out stats in this thread ? infact i don't actually use stats that often. I think i've gave very good argument why i think Larry Holmes would win. And are you honestly telling me, i got to paper stats when i can't debate something. Are you kidding me ? i thought i've always been a pretty decent debater. And i debate on many different era's and fighters, and i've done it without stats.
No comment's on any of my post's in this thread, should be replied to in an aggressive manner. All i've done is state my opinion, while backing it up with some good arguments.
I don't think Lennox Lewis would be able to deal with Larry Holmes's jab, sorry but i don't. And i think he would beat Lennox Lewis comfortably on points, it wouldn't be easy but there's no doubt in my mind. Larry Holmes would be the clear winner.
Lastly people can get as annoyed at my post, as they want. I don't really care i've said nothing wrong, and an opinion shouldn't make anyone annoyed unless its a ridiculous one. But my opinion isn't ridiculous and its an opinion backed up with a good case.
Doesn't mean its right doesn't mean its wrong, as i said to Eagle no one can ever be right discussing mythical match ups.
Ice, I think people can get a bit wound up because with certain boxers (Larry Holmes & James Toney most particularly) you tend to come across as if they were unbeatable & would have destroyed all & sundry.
Your assessment of Holmes acheivements could just as easily be turned around. For example on the Holmes/Norton debate, whilst you feel Holmes won it handily, I thought Norton just took it, & for my mind this was a Norton a little shot by the Ali trilogy. You might disagree with that, but others will get a bit irritated if you constantly twist the facts in a context that suits your fighter, which I think was what Daxx was implying.
However, whilst I disagree with your arguments for why, I do agree that Holmes would probably beat Lewis, I think his jab was just that fantastic that it could take him to a win & although I think Lewis would have him down, I reckon Holmes would just carry it over for a close & controversial decision.
I don't think James Toney is unbeatable by any means, are you on about the thread where i said James Toney had all the attributes ? yes i did say that and i think it would take, a hell of a fighter to beat a prime James Toney.
But i don't think he's unbeatable he struggled against fighters with good movement, and i can think of a handful of fighters, that could of beat James Toney.
As for Larry Holmes again i've never said he's unbeatable, and i've not once implied that in this thread. All i've done is state an opinion, i don't know why im getting this much stick either.
This is one of the reason's i don't come on the site as much, because all i seem to be doing is arguing.
As for the Ken Norton fight, its a fact Larry Holmes had a torn bicep i believe ? or ETC. Which IMO makes Larry Holmes look even better.
And i think he won atleast 7 or 8 rounds in a row. After the 1st round which he clearly lost. Then Ken Norton made a good comeback, but he still lost atleast 2 rounds IMO , especially the 13th round i believe it was.
I do think it is an overrated close fight, but thats my opinion. I would like to see your scorecard though.
But you can't tell me Ken Norton was a bit past his prime, after the Muhammad Ali trilogy.
Ken Norton fought the fight of his life, and was no worse than he was in the Muhammad Ali fights.
I never said Larry Holmes would destroy anyone, your saying i am but i never said that. All i said was that Larry Holmes's jab would the key, and that IMO he would win by 4 rounds 8 rounds to 4, comfortably scoring wise.
Hell Vanchilds had the same prediction as me, regarding the scoring why isn't he getting all this ?
Not that im saying anyone should, but i honestly don't see what i've done wrong other than having an opinion.
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Re: 30 Year Old Lennox Lewis v 30 Year Old Larry Holmes.Who Wins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
I can't give Lewis flack for the Mercer fight.I think he was making a statement as co feature to Holyfield.He sat in with a fit and ready Mercer who was on a nice run,had just jabbed the heck outta Holyfield in a good display of boxing turned shoot out.Maybe not smart for Lewis but that was a turning point for me as far as respecting him.Mercer has always had a short blunt jab...irony was he fancied himself a one man wrecking crew leading up to fight with ancient Holmes as he had just battered Morrison and came back from the brink of defeat with one punch KO over Damiani.He took it all for granted.Of all things it was Mercer outjabbing Holmes at least in round 1,had Holmes on rubber legs with a jab.
Ray Mercer never outjabbed Larry Holmes, he caught Larry Holmes. With a sharp jab coming in, that caught Larry Holmes by suprise and had him off balance. Other than that Ray Mercer was given a boxing, when Larry Holmes was 42. Where as a prime Lennox Lewis just about beat Ray Mercer by the skin of his teeth.
He didn't look off balance to me,he was stunned bad by a jab and then Holmes went right hand happy.Clear round for Mercer to me.He baited and set traps in the corner all night for somewhat sloppy Mercer as it went.Damiani also gave him a boxing lesson,Odum also found him easy with jabs and craftiness.Long gap between those fights and does not all translate 1+1 =2.Styles.Just about beating does not translate to actually achieving it as far as Lewis.Like I said I think Lewis made matters worse for himself by meeting Ray frontal and not fighting a complete smart fight.