Pacquiao and Marqez have no business fighting above 140 pounds against elite opp.

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

Saturday night disgusted me actually. If people enjoyed that and want to see more of that then I would sure as hell not put them in the Boxing Fan box. No way. It wasn't far short of watching PBF beat the living daylights out of the mismatch that was PBF vs Gatti. Competetive matches is what is needed man. I'm flabergasted that people are really into a Floyd - Pac match...... Crazy.... This P4P shit is a cloud on boxing for me, its HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, and should stay like that.

In answer to your thread, they certainly don't have any business being up there atall......

Pacquiao does. He's showed he can hang it and be successful at 147 regardless of who he is facing. However as you say it was against a shot ODLH and he has never fought a genuine threat at 147. If a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight gets made I think it would only be fair to make it for 144/145 pounds. Marquez on the otherhand does not belong there at all. But even at 140 or 135 Mayweather still smashes Marquez in the same way like he did on Saturday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by themacmagician

Saturday night disgusted me actually. If people enjoyed that and want to see more of that then I would sure as hell not put them in the Boxing Fan box. No way. It wasn't far short of watching PBF beat the living daylights out of the mismatch that was PBF vs Gatti. Competetive matches is what is needed man. I'm flabergasted that people are really into a Floyd - Pac match...... Crazy.... This P4P shit is a cloud on boxing for me, its HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, and should stay like that.

In answer to your thread, they certainly don't have any business being up there atall......

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The way Gatti got taken apart was actually hard to watch. Brutal.:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

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JMM has no business there!!!

Pac did his business already & he hit the Boom Time!!! PAC was more impressive at this Higher weights than PBF!!!

Pac will KO the Saturday JMM version in 3 rds!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Pacquiao does. He's showed he can hang it and be successful at 147 regardless of who he is facing. However as you say it was against a shot ODLH and he has never fought a genuine threat at 147. If a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight gets made I think it would only be fair to make it for 144/145 pounds. Marquez on the otherhand does not belong there at all. But even at 140 or 135 Mayweather still smashes Marquez in the same way like he did on Saturday.

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just contradicted yourself something fierce there bud, and fuck this catchweight crap, Pacquiao and Marquez are big boys already, they should know damn well what they can and can't handle, Marquez deep down knew he couldn't beat Mayweather but since it brought the most money well he chose it, and before everyone starts, i thought Marquez showed guts in fighting him, but hell who wouldn't fight Mayweather for around $15 mil, Marquez has plenty of big fights at 135, Valero, Katsidis, Guzman, Reyes, Demarco, Funeka, or the guys that can move up from 130, Guerrero, Soto, Martinez, Linares, as for Pacquiao, i don't wanna hear the same bull that Mayweather is getting if Cotto beats him up bad, IMO neither belongs at 147

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pacdbest2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

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JMM has no business there!!!

Pac did his business already & he hit the Boom Time!!! PAC was more impressive at this Higher weights than PBF!!!

Pac will KO the Saturday JMM version in 3 rds!!!

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shut up you clown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Pacquiao does. He's showed he can hang it and be successful at 147 regardless of who he is facing. However as you say it was against a shot ODLH and he has never fought a genuine threat at 147. If a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight gets made I think it would only be fair to make it for 144/145 pounds. Marquez on the otherhand does not belong there at all. But even at 140 or 135 Mayweather still smashes Marquez in the same way like he did on Saturday.

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just contradicted yourself something fierce there bud, and fuck this catchweight crap, Pacquiao and Marquez are big boys already, they should know damn well what they can and can't handle, Marquez deep down knew he couldn't beat Mayweather but since it brought the most money well he chose it, and before everyone starts, i thought Marquez showed guts in fighting him, but hell who wouldn't fight Mayweather for around $15 mil, Marquez has plenty of big fights at 135, Valero, Katsidis, Guzman, Reyes, Demarco, Funeka, or the guys that can move up from 130, Guerrero, Soto, Martinez, Linares, as for Pacquiao, i don't wanna hear the same bull that Mayweather is getting if Cotto beats him up bad, IMO neither belongs at 147

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He would have fought him with a blindfold on and his hands and feet tied together for that much.

wasn't it about 4 million really? I don't even think Floyd made 15, more like 10.

But of course JMM was going to fight him, that's good money. Money runs everything. JMM could please the purists and clean out 135 or he could make big money :-\ Pacquaio could clean out 140 or he could make big money. Floyd could make more money fighting JMM than he could fighting a 170 pound Josh Clottey, hmm. Fenster is more likely to fight Clottey than PBF is.

They're all doing the same thing, although I think JMM and Pacquaio has shown to be a bit ballsier over the years they are all looking for the big money fights and who gives a fuck about the weights.

Money, money, money. They don't care what we think. Well, for the most part. I had a derogatory joke about ODLH here but it seemed forced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Pacquiao does. He's showed he can hang it and be successful at 147 regardless of who he is facing. However as you say it was against a shot ODLH and he has never fought a genuine threat at 147. If a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight gets made I think it would only be fair to make it for 144/145 pounds. Marquez on the otherhand does not belong there at all. But even at 140 or 135 Mayweather still smashes Marquez in the same way like he did on Saturday.

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Disagree. Pac has fought only once above 140 and it was against a weight drained DLH. There is no way Pac could predict that he would utterly dominate DLH and it is impressive he would fight such a bigger fighter regardless of the weight, but I bet he loses to Cotto and if not Cotto to any other elite welterweight.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Pacquiao does. He's showed he can hang it and be successful at 147 regardless of who he is facing. However as you say it was against a shot ODLH and he has never fought a genuine threat at 147. If a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight gets made I think it would only be fair to make it for 144/145 pounds. Marquez on the otherhand does not belong there at all. But even at 140 or 135 Mayweather still smashes Marquez in the same way like he did on Saturday.

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just contradicted yourself something fierce there bud, and fuck this catchweight crap, Pacquiao and Marquez are big boys already, they should know damn well what they can and can't handle, Marquez deep down knew he couldn't beat Mayweather but since it brought the most money well he chose it, and before everyone starts, i thought Marquez showed guts in fighting him, but hell who wouldn't fight Mayweather for around $15 mil, Marquez has plenty of big fights at 135, Valero, Katsidis, Guzman, Reyes, Demarco, Funeka, or the guys that can move up from 130, Guerrero, Soto, Martinez, Linares, as for Pacquiao, i don't wanna hear the same bull that Mayweather is getting if Cotto beats him up bad, IMO neither belongs at 147

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Credit to Pacquiao and Marquez for having the balls to move up in weight and be underdogs against the best even if money is the motivation.

I'm not quite sure of your point but Cotto doesn't deserve the grief Mayweather is receiving about fighting smaller guys because Cotto has fought Mosley, Clottey, Margarito, and a handful of other top ten welterweights. He deserves a fight against a smaller man and he is fighting a smaller man who beat Hatton and ODLH, which makes it more legitimate. This was Marquez's first fight against anyone above 135.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Pacquiao does. He's showed he can hang it and be successful at 147 regardless of who he is facing. However as you say it was against a shot ODLH and he has never fought a genuine threat at 147. If a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight gets made I think it would only be fair to make it for 144/145 pounds. Marquez on the otherhand does not belong there at all. But even at 140 or 135 Mayweather still smashes Marquez in the same way like he did on Saturday.

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Disagree. Pac has fought only once above 140 and it was against a weight drained DLH. There is no way Pac could predict that he would utterly dominate DLH and it is impressive he would fight such a bigger fighter regardless of the weight, but I bet he loses to Cotto and if not Cotto to any other elite welterweight.

---

I agree Pac and Marquez don't belong anywhere past 140, they just don't have the frame. And if Oscar was about 5 years younger, it would have been a complete 1 sided beat down on Manny. But as someone pointed out, money rules everything and the welterweight division has always had many significant stars and big money fights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

wasn't it about 4 million really? I don't even think Floyd made 15, more like 10.

But of course JMM was going to fight him, that's good money. Money runs everything. JMM could please the purists and clean out 135 or he could make big money :-\ Pacquaio could clean out 140 or he could make big money. Floyd could make more money fighting JMM than he could fighting a 170 pound Josh Clottey, hmm. [B]Fenster is more likely to fight Clottey than PBF is[B].

They're all doing the same thing, although I think JMM and Pacquaio has shown to be a bit ballsier over the years they are all looking for the big money fights and who gives a fuck about the weights.

Money, money, money. They don't care what we think. Well, for the most part. I had a derogatory joke about ODLH here but it seemed forced.

---

True.

Marquez was on a guarantee of $2 milllion - a career high payday. (Floyd $10m)

That's why he was so gutted Floyd only weighed-in 2 pound over. One more pound he would have been rewarded half his purse again just for watching a guy fail to make weight. Tidy. :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Pacquiao does. He's showed he can hang it and be successful at 147 regardless of who he is facing. However as you say it was against a shot ODLH and he has never fought a genuine threat at 147. If a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight gets made I think it would only be fair to make it for 144/145 pounds. Marquez on the otherhand does not belong there at all. But even at 140 or 135 Mayweather still smashes Marquez in the same way like he did on Saturday.

---

just contradicted yourself something fierce there bud, and fuck this catchweight crap, Pacquiao and Marquez are big boys already, they should know damn well what they can and can't handle, Marquez deep down knew he couldn't beat Mayweather but since it brought the most money well he chose it, and before everyone starts, i thought Marquez showed guts in fighting him, but hell who wouldn't fight Mayweather for around $15 mil, Marquez has plenty of big fights at 135, Valero, Katsidis, Guzman, Reyes, Demarco, Funeka, or the guys that can move up from 130, Guerrero, Soto, Martinez, Linares, as for Pacquiao, i don't wanna hear the same bull that Mayweather is getting if Cotto beats him up bad, IMO neither belongs at 147

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I looked at the Pacquiao situation from 2 sides. Hence the word "However". I know what I'm talking about when it comes to English Language.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Pacquiao does. He's showed he can hang it and be successful at 147 regardless of who he is facing. However as you say it was against a shot ODLH and he has never fought a genuine threat at 147. If a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight gets made I think it would only be fair to make it for 144/145 pounds. Marquez on the otherhand does not belong there at all. But even at 140 or 135 Mayweather still smashes Marquez in the same way like he did on Saturday.

---

just contradicted yourself something fierce there bud, and fuck this catchweight crap, Pacquiao and Marquez are big boys already, they should know damn well what they can and can't handle, Marquez deep down knew he couldn't beat Mayweather but since it brought the most money well he chose it, and before everyone starts, i thought Marquez showed guts in fighting him, but hell who wouldn't fight Mayweather for around $15 mil, Marquez has plenty of big fights at 135, Valero, Katsidis, Guzman, Reyes, Demarco, Funeka, or the guys that can move up from 130, Guerrero, Soto, Martinez, Linares, as for Pacquiao, i don't wanna hear the same bull that Mayweather is getting if Cotto beats him up bad, IMO neither belongs at 147

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I looked at the Pacquiao situation from 2 sides. Hence the word "However". I know what I'm talking about when it comes to English Language.

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just by sticking in however doesn't change the fact that you said that Pacquiao is proven at 147, although it was against a shot weight drained fighter

the fact that Pacquiao beat a shot, weight drained fighter, goes on to further show that he isn't proven at 147, i'm pretty sure that Marquez would have beat Felix Trinidad on Saturday if he would have boiled down to 147 :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

just contradicted yourself something fierce there bud, and fuck this catchweight crap, Pacquiao and Marquez are big boys already, they should know damn well what they can and can't handle, Marquez deep down knew he couldn't beat Mayweather but since it brought the most money well he chose it, and before everyone starts, i thought Marquez showed guts in fighting him, but hell who wouldn't fight Mayweather for around $15 mil, Marquez has plenty of big fights at 135, Valero, Katsidis, Guzman, Reyes, Demarco, Funeka, or the guys that can move up from 130, Guerrero, Soto, Martinez, Linares, as for Pacquiao, i don't wanna hear the same bull that Mayweather is getting if Cotto beats him up bad, IMO neither belongs at 147

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I looked at the Pacquiao situation from 2 sides. Hence the word "However". I know what I'm talking about when it comes to English Language.

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just by sticking in however doesn't change the fact that you said that Pacquiao is proven at 147, although it was against a shot weight drained fighter

the fact that Pacquiao beat a shot, weight drained fighter, goes on to further show that he isn't proven at 147, i'm pretty sure that Marquez would have beat Felix Trinidad on Saturday if he would have boiled down to 147 :rolleyes:

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Didn't admit to not saying it. I was looking at Pacquiao from opposite sides. One sentence was a positive, the next was a negative. Simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

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Your a complete idiot! Regardless of whether DLH was weight drained or not, Pacquiao's punches rocked Oscar's entire body. Pac was just as fast as ever and his power enhanced greatly! This post is total ignorance!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

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Your a complete idiot! Regardless of whether DLH was weight drained or not, Pacquiao's punches rocked Oscar's entire body. Pac was just as fast as ever and his power enhanced greatly! This post is total ignorance!

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i'd say your post is ignorance, especially if you think that Manny Pacquiao beat a healthy prime DLH

Pac & Marquez are too COMPLETELY DIFFERENT entities
One is a 36 yr old who is ending his career by looking small @ 135
The other is a 29 yr old who has physically matured and had his diet improve and has grown into a legit 140 lb fighter
The point is 147 lbs is 2 1/2 weightclasses past Juan's best and 1 past Manny's

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truth

Pac & Marquez are too COMPLETELY DIFFERENT entities
One is a 36 yr old who is ending his career by looking small @ 135
The other is a 29 yr old who has physically matured and had his diet improve and has grown into a legit 140 lb fighter
The point is 147 lbs is 2 1/2 weightclasses past Juan's best and 1 past Manny's

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Pacquiao will be 31 by the end of the year, and has taken a lot more shots to the head than Marquez, and IMO will get sparked at 147 against Cotto

I agree with the first post in this thread.

Going into 140 plus weight category is brave but really crazy for Pac and Marquez.

Honestly, I could hardly see Pac winning against Cotto. Considering that Pac is sort of underestimating this fight ( by having his training in the Philippines where there will be many distractions), I am more afraid for Pac now.

The PBF- MArquez fight is like a prelude to what will happen with Pac vs Cotto. Cotto will be too big for Pac just like PBF was too big for Marquez.

IMO, PBF is very skillful against Marquez but one thing that assured his victory was the inability of Marquez to truly hurt him. :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brucelee

I agree with the first post in this thread.

Going into 140 plus weight category is brave but really crazy for Pac and Marquez.

Honestly, I could hardly see Pac winning against Cotto. Considering that Pac is sort of underestimating this fight ( by having his training in the Philippines where there will be many of distractions), I am more afraid for Pac now.

The PBF- MArquez fight is like a prelude to what will happen with Pac vs Cotto. Cotto will be too big for Pac just like PBF was too big for Marquez.

IMO, PBF is very skillful against Marquez but one thing that assured his victory was the inability of Marquez to truly hurt him. :cool:

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So are you saying your boy is going to lose? BTW, you are right, Pac is underestimating Cotto and having his training in the Phillipines with the distractions. That's what happens when you have free loaders and hanger ons giving you bad advice. Cotto isn't shot and I don't think he will be weight drained like Oscar, and he isn't an 1 trick pony like Hatton.

Cotto by brutal ko.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Your a complete idiot! Regardless of whether DLH was weight drained or not, Pacquiao's punches rocked Oscar's entire body. Pac was just as fast as ever and his power enhanced greatly! This post is total ignorance!

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:rolleyes: Oh the irony!

ODLH said Pac's punches didn't hurt him, he just hadn't got the energy to fight back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conrad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Your a complete idiot! Regardless of whether DLH was weight drained or not, Pacquiao's punches rocked Oscar's entire body. Pac was just as fast as ever and his power enhanced greatly! This post is total ignorance!

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:rolleyes: Oh the irony!

ODLH said Pac's punches didn't hurt him, he just hadn't got the energy to fight back.

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That's why he quit! Of course he was getting hurt.

Pacquiao's punches start from his legs and he has his weight behind them. This is why he brings his power with him to the higher weight classes. Marquez punches more with his arms so his punches are less effective at the higher weight.

Oscar has a strong chin. But when you hear the post fight interview with Roach he says Pacquiao was carrying Oscar in last few rounds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brucelee

I agree with the first post in this thread.

Going into 140 plus weight category is brave but really crazy for Pac and Marquez.

Honestly, I could hardly see Pac winning against Cotto. Considering that Pac is sort of underestimating this fight ( by having his training in the Philippines where there will be many of distractions), I am more afraid for Pac now.

The PBF- MArquez fight is like a prelude to what will happen with Pac vs Cotto. Cotto will be too big for Pac just like PBF was too big for Marquez.

IMO, PBF is very skillful against Marquez but one thing that assured his victory was the inability of Marquez to truly hurt him. :cool:

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So are you saying your boy is going to lose? BTW, you are right, Pac is underestimating Cotto and having his training in the Phillipines with the distractions. That's what happens when you have free loaders and hanger ons giving you bad advice. Cotto isn't shot and I don't think he will be weight drained like Oscar, and he isn't an 1 trick pony like Hatton.

Cotto by brutal ko.

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Yeah, it's probable Pac would lose this fight. I have this feeling that he will not be prepared for the fight. With him in the Philippines, he will be going to parties, talkshow, advertisements,etc.

People would be coming over to his place and there will be no discipline there unless Roach would use an iron hand. It's rainy season in the Philippines now and Pac really won't be jogging in the rain with all the people watching him. His footwork and speed will suffer greatly in this fight. I have seen an ill-prepared Pacquaio crumble due to fatigue and I'm truly afraid for him.

IMO, Pacquaio is destined to fail in this fight unless the boxing mafia wants a Mayweather-Pac fight which would be very, very big in terms of money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brucelee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brucelee

I agree with the first post in this thread.

Going into 140 plus weight category is brave but really crazy for Pac and Marquez.

Honestly, I could hardly see Pac winning against Cotto. Considering that Pac is sort of underestimating this fight ( by having his training in the Philippines where there will be many of distractions), I am more afraid for Pac now.

The PBF- MArquez fight is like a prelude to what will happen with Pac vs Cotto. Cotto will be too big for Pac just like PBF was too big for Marquez.

IMO, PBF is very skillful against Marquez but one thing that assured his victory was the inability of Marquez to truly hurt him. :cool:

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So are you saying your boy is going to lose? BTW, you are right, Pac is underestimating Cotto and having his training in the Phillipines with the distractions. That's what happens when you have free loaders and hanger ons giving you bad advice. Cotto isn't shot and I don't think he will be weight drained like Oscar, and he isn't an 1 trick pony like Hatton.

Cotto by brutal ko.

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Yeah, it's probable Pac would lose this fight. I have this feeling that he will not be prepared for the fight. With him in the Philippines, he will be going to parties, talkshow, advertisements,etc.

People would be coming over to his place and there will be no discipline there unless Roach would use an iron hand. It's rainy season in the Philippines now and Pac really won't be jogging in the rain with all the people watching him. His footwork and speed will suffer greatly in this fight. I have seen an ill-prepared Pacquaio crumble due to fatigue and I'm truly afraid for him.

IMO, Pacquaio is destined to fail in this fight unless the boxing mafia wants a Mayweather-Pac fight which would be very, very big in terms of money.

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I also heard Roach complaining of not getting into contact with Pac and that his hanger ons wouldn't let him get in touch with his pupil. That's the reason why I pick Cotto over Pacman, Cotto just seems hungrier at this point and more focused and with his natural size advantage. I don't know what's going on in Pacquiao's head to listen to leechers and freeloaders instead of the trainer that help got him to the top.

It sounds like we have 10 insiders in the Pac camp ahha
Pac like Maywetaher always has "distractions" in his camp don't buy into everything you hear Pac will be ready for Cotto

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Originally Posted by Pacdbest2

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

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JMM has no business there!!!

Pac did his business already & he hit the Boom Time!!! PAC was more impressive at this Higher weights than PBF!!!

Pac will KO the Saturday JMM version in 3 rds!!!

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And Marquez would have beaten the crap out of the Pacquiao version of De La Hoya that Manny fought. So?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

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Your a complete idiot! Regardless of whether DLH was weight drained or not, Pacquiao's punches rocked Oscar's entire body. Pac was just as fast as ever and his power enhanced greatly! This post is total ignorance!

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YOOO. No reason to take it to that level. Isn't that precisely what the moderators try to discourage?

Pacquiao went into the fight an underdog and beat a bigger man - credit is due. I'm not minimizing the significance of that win. It was huge. You think Pacquiao can win fights against the top of the division at welterweight? I don't. And it makes for mismatches. Floyd would smoke Pacquiao. Shane would smoke Pacquiao. Margarito would smoke Pacquiao. PWill would smoke Pacquiao. Cotto will smoke Pacquiao although I give Pacquiao the best chance against Cotto. At some point, you can't get around size. That doesn't mean Pacquiao still isn't great; he is. He should dominate the lower weight classes like he has for the last ten years. Tim Bradley, Amir Khan, Marquez #3 to settle the score, there are options at 140.

I'll tell you what: Pacquiao beats Floyd at 147 and it would be the one of the biggest upsets in a championship fight in a long time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truth

Pac & Marquez are too COMPLETELY DIFFERENT entities
One is a 36 yr old who is ending his career by looking small @ 135
The other is a 29 yr old who has physically matured and had his diet improve and has grown into a legit 140 lb fighter
The point is 147 lbs is 2 1/2 weightclasses past Juan's best and 1 past Manny's

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So, we agree on Marquez, but disagree on Pacquiao. Fair. Who would Pacquiao beat out of the top fighters at 147?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Marquez was ten pounds heavier than he should be for a fight and it showed. He was too small to get anywhere near Floyd.

Pacquiao would have met the same fate. Pacquiao shouldn't face Floyd even for the money. He beat DLH at 147 because DLH was weight-drained. A prime Mosley, Cotto, or PBF would beat Pac. Out of those, he has the best chance of beating Cotto, but Cotto should be too big for Pac too.

I understand there is more money in the higher weight classes, but fighters reach a ceiling at some point. For Pacquiao and Marquez the ceiling is 140.

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Your a complete idiot! Regardless of whether DLH was weight drained or not, Pacquiao's punches rocked Oscar's entire body. Pac was just as fast as ever and his power enhanced greatly! This post is total ignorance!

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i'd say your post is ignorance, especially if you think that Manny Pacquiao beat a healthy prime DLH

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Hmm I dont recall ever saying Oscar was un his prime when Pacquiao beat him, what exactly are you reading may ask? If Oscar was in his prime it wouldn't matter, it would be more competitive but Manny would still win. Do yourself a favor and read the posts before responding.:rolleyes:

It's because Marquez lost to FPF then Pac's decision fighting above 140 has also been considered crazy move.


Let me say this straight, if Pac continues to stay at 140 and continues to beat every opponent. Then history would judge him...

He isn't that great (Pac) because he never fought above 140 with the likes of Cotto, Mosley, or PBF, Margarito.


Whereas telling Pac has no business fighting above 140

I give Pac credit for bringing the fight at above 140.



My question is


1. If he beats Cotto, what exucuse will you give for Cotto? Cotto is too dehydrated to reach weight?

2. If Pac wins, will you tell Pac to fight bigger fighters until somebody beats the shit out of him?



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by spade

It's because Marquez lost to FPF then Pac's decision fighting above 140 has also been considered crazy move.


Let me say this straight, if Pac continues to stay at 140 and continues to beat every opponent. Then history would judge him...

He isn't that great (Pac) because he never fought above 140 with the likes of Cotto, Mosley, or PBF, Margarito.


Whereas telling Pac has no business fighting above 140

I give Pac credit for bringing the fight at above 140.



My question is


1. If he beats Cotto, what exucuse will you give for Cotto? Cotto is too dehydrated to reach weight?

2. If Pac wins, will you tell Pac to fight bigger fighters until somebody beats the shit out of him?



______

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Great point Spade;)
Though aside from Cotto or Berto I don't really want Manny fighting these big welters just so happen there is a welter title at stake and is winnable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spade

It's because Marquez lost to FPF then Pac's decision fighting above 140 has also been considered crazy move.


Let me say this straight, if Pac continues to stay at 140 and continues to beat every opponent. Then history would judge him...

He isn't that great (Pac) because he never fought above 140 with the likes of Cotto, Mosley, or PBF, Margarito.


Whereas telling Pac has no business fighting above 140

I give Pac credit for bringing the fight at above 140.



My question is


1. If he beats Cotto, what exucuse will you give for Cotto? Cotto is too dehydrated to reach weight?

2. If Pac wins, will you tell Pac to fight bigger fighters until somebody beats the shit out of him?



______

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Don't get me wrong, I give Manny and Marquez all the credit in the world for fighting the top welterweights. I just think the fights won't be competitive. Cotto v. Pacquiao may be the most competitive of the possible combinations, but I say Cotto wins. Now, either of them against the top junior welterweights or lightweights and there will be some competition. I'd love to see Valero fight Marquez at 135 or Pacquiao fight Tim Bradley at 140.

Pacquiao and Marquez…No business fighting over 140 lbs!

I am going back and forth on this issue without a firm thought for a clear and decisive choice. Is it a valid statement, or is it more an unsubstantiated bark without a bite? Unsettled is apt, if I have anything right now.

In the case of Juan Manuel Marquez, as storied a career as he has had, will not dispute this claim. Juan has no business fighting above the junior welterweight limit of 140lbs. I do not even see him being successful any longer at 135, much more 140! This is an open argument tho', and by no means at all a fact! For sure however, he will still dominate with ease the 130 and below weight classes. With the vast experience and without any concessions giving in from a size disparity, he can very well hide his rapidly advancing maturity. His age factor is almost on the negative side for ring attributes as for competitive fighters go.

However, in the case of Manny Pacquiao it is vastly different, although there still is a bit of cloud in his eligibility to fight in the upwards of the mentioned weight limits, Manny has had a teeny-weeny bit of success fighting at it! Fighting at 145lbs once, the result now seemingly tainted, his opponent was tagged unsuitable by the "boxing experts" for being “weight-drained” and miserably dehydrated during the fight.

The not so distant fight mentioned was fought only last December of '08, and it was against no less that Oscar “the golden boy” de la Hoya, a future hall of famer who had unwittingly ill-trained against the renowned fighter from Gen San in the Philippines. Oscar was so outclassed in that fight that he was made to tap out in surrender, quitting on his stool, to extricate him from furthering serious harm in after only 8 rounds of pure hell at the hands of the “ineligible” little man, pound for pound king, Manny Pacquiao!

This fight did not establish any legitimacy to the "PacMan's ascendancy to the higher weight classes. He is, as the boxing experts proclaim, a little man. A little while back, Emmanuel Steward, a color commentator for HBO, and a boxing trainer hall of famer (?), even acquiesced to the very same notion, that Pac was fighting at a decidedly size disadvantage against Erik Morales in their second fight! He believed that Pacquiao's best weight-class is in the featherweight!

So there you go, back and forth is where I will be at the moment. Is Pacquiao really ineligible to fight at the welterweight level?

We will soon find out in no time. His next fight is against a legitimate welterweight in a beast of a fighter in Miguel Cotto of Caguas, Puerto Rico. Unbeaten in 38 fights except for that Margarito hand-wrap controversy, Miguel will put to test this quandary.

If only to clear any of this, Manny should make the fight in November 14th an action-packed one. With blood, skills and spilt guts! No more of the silly dominance of weight-drained over the hill fighters. They can retaliate more aggressively, and inflict damage in the media a lot more than when pitted atop the ring, so no more of that!

As an aside, in preparation for the Cotto fight, coach Roach has tapped the services of Shawn Porter, a light middleweight, to be one of four sparmates to Pacquiao. This guy bangs with the likes of Daniel Jacobs… and has even fought in the 167lbs during his 250 or so, amateur career. This monster of a sparmate a very promisiing jr middleweight, Shawn Porter, with a professional record of 10-0, with 8 KO’s can slaughter Pacquiao!

Manny Pacquiao, has no business fighting over the 140lbs?

If the contention of this thread holds true, good grief!

By the way... on the sparmates, anyone knows who the other three are ?

Pacquiao does. he's gonna whoop Cotto.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by themacmagician

Saturday night disgusted me actually. If people enjoyed that and want to see more of that then I would sure as hell not put them in the Boxing Fan box. No way. It wasn't far short of watching PBF beat the living daylights out of the mismatch that was PBF vs Gatti. Competetive matches is what is needed man. I'm flabergasted that people are really into a Floyd - Pac match...... Crazy.... This P4P shit is a cloud on boxing for me, its HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, and should stay like that.

In answer to your thread, they certainly don't have any business being up there atall......

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Sorry, but I'm calling BS on this one. So with your logic, Floyd shouldn't really be fighting anyone? He is the P4P best, you are bound to see a gulf in class between him and almost ALL of his opponents!

You also point to the "mismatch" between Mayweather and Gatti. That was only Floyds 2nd or 3rd bout at 140 and Gatti was a legit light welter. So, his dominating performance means he should never be fighting these guys even in his weight class?

Who does he fight then if we use your logic? You'll probably say Mosely, Cotto etc etc...what about if he dominates them and it is hard for you to watch? What then?

So, again, using your logic, anybody who is a Floyd fan shouldn't be considered a fan of boxing, right because he is too dominating? :rolleyes:

Marquez, although I thought was going to give Mayweather trouble and maybe even spring a surprise, wouldn't have given him trouble at any weight unfortunately.