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Santiago should of stopped the fight after the 9th round.
I know Cotto wanted to continue but at that stage it's not up to Cotto, It's up to the trainer, Cotto was getting beat up bad and was never gonna change the fight around, Santiago's job is to protect Cotto.
He didn't do it on saturday night.
Props to Cotto for wanting to go on though, You won't find anyone calling Cotto a quitter anymore.
Honestly if Santiago would have stopped it in the 9th he would have been fired. Cotto has an issue now with knowing it all and being surrounded by yes men. This will only hurt him going forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
Yeah. The trainer should have stopped it early.
I agree with Cotto having an issue about knowing it all.
When asked about changing his corner he said "Why"? Look at your face man. He looked like George Foreman a day after the fight. I couldn't even tell it was him at first.
I thought the Margarito loss was worse but Pac served him the worst beating ever.
He still wants to fight but he desperately needs a good trainer to work on his defense. He gets hit way too much. He needs to put the ego aside and realize that there is always room to learn.
well said. if i was his trainer i wont care if he fires me... i would earn a lot of respect by making sure my fighter doesnt get hurt or injured. u know when your man is totally out of the fight. remember when roach stopped the fight between juanma and gerry penalosa. that was a closer fight than cotto was and was still stopped.sure cotto might fire santiago or hate him for stopping the fight but if he looks at the replay he would probably thank him later.Quote:
Originally Posted by belakbox
yeah man. I totally agree. You need a trainer who cares enough that being fired doesn't cloud his judgment. Most fighter's have short enough career as is. They practically let Pac tear his head off.
It was no secret coming in that Santiago didn't know what he was doing. I mean aside from Roach assertion that he was green. He wasnt a fighter and he didnt train anyone else (I think) and he didn't know how to get his fighters attention.
Its one thing to be a fan, watch some tapes and think you can spot things about your opponent. Its another entirely to be able to spot what the guy in the other corner is having his fighter look for or be able to tell when he's setting you up; To be able to work the ref and the judges; tell how much your fighter can get away with; tell what your fighter is capable of as far as following your instructions; Or like in this case, when your fighter is being too brave for his own good.
Santiago was just going along and hoping that one big shot would bail Cotto out. Cottos' dad wanted it stopped earlier, I heard. He was supposed to be given one more round, but in the end it was Cotto calling the shots. It was also Cotto's choice to call this guy his trainer. I agree with those people that said Cotto wants yes men. A good trainer will need more than to just tweak him to take him to the next level. They'd have to break him of some old habits first (like dropping his hands before he throws and flaring his elbows instead of tucking them, bring his hands down a little in his defensive posture so they dont obstruct his peripheral vision, pick up some head movement, and not square up as much, etc.) Theres an old saying that says "Most people dont mind the idea of change as much as they hate being changed"
If Miguel is to continue boxing successfully and especially if he wants to rebound from this loss I suggest he hire a better more experienced trainer.
My picks:
Buddy McGirt, taught Gatti how to box, Miguel KNOWS how to box (Buddy would get him to do it more and not take unneeded punishment) but Buddy protects his fighters and after that fight it's clear Cotto doesn't know when to say when.
Ronnie Shields would bring in better defense, he was good for Holyfield he could be good for Cotto.
Yeah i see what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepHonestly if Santiago would have stopped it in the 9th he would have been fired. Cotto has an issue now with knowing it all and being surrounded by yes men. This will only hurt him going forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugilistic
Had i been Cotto's trainer, my job would of been the last thing on my mind, Cotto's health would of come first.
Whether he would of liked the decision or not doesn't matter as long as he was no longer taking punishment.
Yeah, letting the fight continue after the 9th is foolish on the part of Cotto's corner. Showed a lot of the inexperience that Roach has been ponting out prior to the fight.
Foolish, as there was a situation from the previous night (Z Gorres), resulting in a fighter being severely damaged from head trauma in a fight less brutal in nature than the one stated above.
As if this trauma case of Friday night can serve a lesson in handling future matters such as these beatings atop the ring, it still failed, as amature night in Cotto's camp, particularly with the head trainer, was in full display.
I agree it should have been stopped after the 9th, you could see he wasn't going to win on points and didn't show any signs of having the power left to deliver a KO. That said he wasn't too bad in the 10th and 11th but that is what Cotto will use as an argument to justify his wanting to go on.
His trainer was a shocker, he just didn't know what instructions to give Cotto, again however although he wasn't a fighter himself that doesn't really go for too much, some great trainers were either never fighters themselves or not very good. They did however spend about every waking moment in the gym and it's in their blood.
Cotto has plenty left I believe, he just needs as stated to work on boxing more, listen to others and employ the right people in his team . he was working well off the jab but just seemed to get drawn into a brawl to show how macho he is. Sometimes a corner can't control a fighter , I mean look at Hatton, all those great new ideas he spoke of and he just wades in, Ali trains for speed and footwork and lies on the ropes ! for some it works I guess.
He should have at least stopped it in the 12th, Cotto didnt even know he had to come out for another round and thought he was done.
A small detail, but a huge danger sign for a boxer in action that went unnoticed by a novice cornerman.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Felix Trinidad Sr. apparently did not appreciate Santiago's "training"....
Felix Trinidad Sr. Not Happy With Cotto's Corner/Trainer - Boxing News
Although I don't agree with the part about Cotto needing to stay with Evangilista, sure he was a good trainer and they had a good run together but in the Margarito fight Evangilista really dropped the ball!
I'm not sure who the old guy was in Cotto's corner but when he told him "we are here for you" man that was some emotional shit. Only in boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahmez
Was 0 help. He should sack them all.
...I think the old guy was Cotto's dadQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyQuote:
Originally Posted by jahmez
Was 0 help. He should sack them all.
Felix Trinidad Sr. might be a good trainer for Miguel
I was disappointed with his work in the corner between rounds.. Cotto would just come in from have his style beat, and the trainer didn't offer many things to adjust, or things to focus on.. It was more a quick pep talk, and it was getting cotto relaxed a bit and ready for another round..
But tactically Cotto had to do the analysis and make the adjustments, as far as I could tell..
And that is where the experience needed to come in right through the camp, to at least have a plan B if Pac's speed was to much, etc etc...
But it's easy to say that after the fight of course...
I can see why Cotto wanted to battle on though and give Cotto that chance to fight on, but it's that old thing "Safety and quiting a fight that you just arn't going to win VS battling it out and showing your heart and pride"...
There is still a lot of heart and pride in our boxers today and you got to really love that.. Especially from guys like Cotto.. But for the trainer, you gotta look after your fighters safety, sometimes even if the fighter doesn't agree..
This is a tough one for me,,, I have to be honest...
Corner? What corner? Coming from a Cotto fan, this is going to sound harsh... but Cotto doesn't have a corner. He has a bunch a groupies and "yes-men" and until he gets a REAL corner, this is as high as Cotto goes. Sad and blunt, but true.
:mad:
It did seem that way to me from watching the 24/7 and the fight. Cotto needed for some reason to be the one always calling the shots and so seemed to have attracted the "yes man" team. I don't know too much about Cotto outside of his fights but have been involved in work situations where the boss only wants yes men around and anyone who speaks up about poor decisions is no longer around, even if they are very experienced and skilled. Eventually there is failure. And the Cotto corner between rounds in this fight to me was a perfect example of this. It just seemed to me that they knew their job was to do whatever they were told like through the camp, as Cotto seemed to have developed this sense of unrealistic self importance. Then in the fight no-one knew what to do when the pressure was on. Their job was to make him feel good about himself, that didn't seem to be effective in the strategy for the fight. Cotto couldn't adjust on his own and got smashed. At that level experience and results from a trainer are so important and the fighter needs to respect and trust in that. There was no experience or proven results from the trainer and Cotto seemed to want to do it all on his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
His strength conditioner seems to be quite good, his fat friend seems to get the logistic task done too, the biggest problem is the main coach, the main piece of the board. He's a nutritionist of formation for Christ sake, how can you put a nutritionist of formation as head coach when you're preparing yourself for the Waterloo fight, especially when the coach on the other hand is a friggin mastermind? Between the round Santiago's work was ludicrous, it was more panicking or "relax, relax, it's good, it's good", no useful advices, nothing. I hope Cotto won't ruin his career with him and send him back to his nutritionist job ASAP and find a real good one like Ronnie Shield or Pat Burns.Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerskIt did seem that way to me from watching the 24/7 and the fight. Cotto needed for some reason to be the one always calling the shots and so seemed to have attracted the "yes man" team. I don't know too much about Cotto outside of his fights but have been involved in work situations where the boss only wants yes men around and anyone who speaks up about poor decisions is no longer around, even if they are very experienced and skilled. Eventually there is failure. And the Cotto corner between rounds in this fight to me was a perfect example of this. It just seemed to me that they knew their job was to do whatever they were told like through the camp, as Cotto seemed to have developed this sense of unrealistic self importance. Then in the fight no-one knew what to do when the pressure was on. Their job was to make him feel good about himself, that didn't seem to be effective in the strategy for the fight. Cotto couldn't adjust on his own and got smashed. At that level experience and results from a trainer are so important and the fighter needs to respect and trust in that. There was no experience or proven results from the trainer and Cotto seemed to want to do it all on his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Cotto Put On A Good Fight Even Tho Pac Wus To Fast For Him. Now For His Trainer He Did The Right Thing Not Stopping It Early, He Felt Cotto Still Had Heart In Him To Go More Which He Does And See If They Can Come Up Wit The Ko Some Way Some How,
Nobody had the authority to disagree with Cotto. He's the boss. One of his sparring partner gave him trouble in the ring, and instead of rewarding him $1k, what did they do?... they fired his ass. Plus, wassup with the slow motion mitts work?
Santiago did a shit job. No advices, no adjustment, nothing. HEll, I would have been better than him 10 times and God knows I am absolutely not a qualified trainer in any field, just give some advices, throw more, circle more on your right, double the jab, stuff like that. No. Nothing. As for stopping the fight early... perhaps not early in the fight. But damn earlier than the 11th round. It should have been stopped on the 8 or 9 at worst, it was a maniacal slaughter and Joe not only lacks the talent to talk and run a corner but he doesn't have the balls to protect his fighter. Pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc champ