Does this rub poo on Calzaghe's biggest win

I couldnt resist;D

Seriously though, Kess is supposed to be a longtime reigning champ in his 10th straight championship fight and he got out clevered by a 20 fight guy. Not sparring with any southpaws and not adjusting to the inside is inexcusable, I know the butt at the end looked like a drunkin car wreck but the others were unintentional and had nothing to do with Ward attacking a pressing most of the fight and Kess missing the counters

I would concede shitty reffing if Kess was succesful on the outside and Ward was holding and spoiling to nullify, the truth is Ward was beating him bad on the outside too..

How would have Calzaghe done last night?

Forgot to add a Not Sure option for the poll.

Thats what I would vote.. Maybe a Mod could add it for me

Kessler has not fought for ages and that must have hampered his performance. Since the defeat to Joe he has had legal issues which has kept him out of the ring. Andre did great but this has no reflection on Joe's victory.

Well I think old Hopkins is still his biggest win.

The Hopkins that came in against Cals would have totally befuddled last nights Kessler. Which to be fair is exactly what Ward did. He may have gotten punished less.

Kessler just doesn't seem to adapt well which is a trait of most great fighters. But I think Joe's legacy is still solid if a little less impressive than it could have been if not for that long span in the middle of his career where he didn't get much done.

1. Calzaghe obviously ruined Kessler.

2. Eubank was a bigger win than Kessler.

3. Jesus might have given Calzaghe problems.. all the dirty guys did. ;D

Fenster, add a "not sure" option to the poll, I don't know how to :-\

Or everyone could just say I'm not sure, I don't know.

Calzaghe didn't clinch like an S.O.B. or literally use his head.

Credit to Ward, but I don't think he did it in as impressive a manner...

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Fenster, add a "not sure" option to the poll, I don't know how to :-\

Or everyone could just say I'm not sure, I don't know.

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I was about to but then saw it's 6-0 so far to Calzaghe. Best just let Calzaghe win.

Actually right now Kessler seems like the perfect candidate for a rematch given Joe's most recent competition.

Calzaghe fought the best when they were at their worst and that is his legacy defined.

Sure Joe is talented, but where was the challenge in his career? OLD Hopkins? OLD Roy Jones Jr? Please, the man fought 2 "tough" opponents in their primes Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler and look what just happened to Mikkel. If Joe knows what's best for his career HE will take the place of Jermain Taylor in the Super 6 and win out.....if he could beat Abraham that is ;D

Ward might have had only 20 wins but for what its worth this is an Olympic gold medalist and a very skilled fighter. I think Calzaghe might have took something out of Kessler but I think Ward would have beaten him regardless. I was leaning for AA to win this thing but Ward is defiantly the next runner up.

I suppose its like when Joe fought Lacy, Lacy was a wreaking machine and Joe walked it, then Kessler and again, Joe is very impressive and fights the whole way, no clinching.

Ward didnt look impressive, he looked like Hopkins, hes got that horrible style that relys on being dirty and disruptive.

I think Joe beats Ward like he beat Hopkins, he may be tempted to come out of retirement now because he did feel proud of that win and I think the Kessler that Joe fought was a better fighter, he hadnt had his confidence ruined yet and had been very active fighting decent, tough, world class fighters

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Actually right now Kessler seems like the perfect candidate for a rematch given Joe's most recent competition.

Calzaghe fought the best when they were at their worst and that is his legacy defined.

Sure Joe is talented, but where was the challenge in his career? OLD Hopkins? OLD Roy Jones Jr? Please, the man fought 2 "tough" opponents in their primes Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler and look what just happened to Mikkel. If Joe knows what's best for his career HE will take the place of Jermain Taylor in the Super 6 and win out.....if he could beat Abraham that is ;D

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So you're knocking Calzaghe because Kessler lost, and yet Hopkins scored THE BEST (in his words) win of his career after Calzaghe but that doesn't count because he was "old."

Kessler was unbeaten when Calzaghe beat him.

Hopkins arguably scored the most impressive wins of his career either side of the Calzaghe loss (certainly in his opinion).

Most importantly Calzaghe was never knocked out by golfers and journymen. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Master

Kessler has not fought for ages and that must have hampered his performance. Since the defeat to Joe he has had legal issues which has kept him out of the ring. Andre did great but this has no reflection on Joe's victory.

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Didn't Kessler just fight a mandatory like two months ago?

Wards decisive win over Kessler definately rubs poo on Joe's resume.

I disagree with Kessler being Calzaghe's biggest win though, Hopkins is his biggest win imo.

Here's four more Calzaghe haters certain to vote yes - ICB, VD, Dark Lord Al, Tysonbruno

Well I voted no mainly cause I didn't think it was his biggest win. But of course it takes some of the luster off, I would still probably vote no as I'm not sure it technically rubbed shit all over it.

I think it does. You can look at it two different ways. Calzaghe had a close but clear win over Kessler , while a fighter with 20 wins and little big fight experience completely schooled Kessler. this basically embarasses Calzaghe's performance. However, on other hand, the Kessler that fought Calzaghe was very focused and looked in much better form than against Ward. Maybe it was an off night? I think it's a little of both- Kessler didn't look as good as when he fought Joe but now his victory doesn't look as great as it did. What if it was

Ward - Calzaghe (when he fought Kes)?

I still say it would be a close Calzaghe win.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

So you're knocking Calzaghe because Kessler lost, and yet Hopkins scored THE BEST (in his words) win of his career after Calzaghe but that doesn't count because he was "old."

Kessler was unbeaten when Calzaghe beat him.

Hopkins arguably scored the most impressive wins of his career either side of the Calzaghe loss (certainly in his opinion).

Most importantly Calzaghe was never knocked out by golfers and journymen. Fact.

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Pavlik was the best win of Hopkins' career because it was unexpected, had Hopkins beaten Calzaghe I am sure THAT would have been the biggest win of his career.

I'm quite surprised people are voting no.

Kessler losing so clearly obviously takes away credit from Joe's win.

Just like Hopkins beating Pavlik raised Joe's win over him.

It doesn't take anything away because to me that was nowhere near the best kess can do. He needs to get himself a new trainer and properly prepare himself for his next fight with a gameplan and an option b c and d in case a fails. It looks like they came in yesterday expecting to knock out ward, and kess did beautifully in the 5th round I thought, don't know why he didn't keep it up. Styles make fights as always...

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

So you're knocking Calzaghe because Kessler lost, and yet Hopkins scored THE BEST (in his words) win of his career after Calzaghe but that doesn't count because he was "old."

Kessler was unbeaten when Calzaghe beat him.

Hopkins arguably scored the most impressive wins of his career either side of the Calzaghe loss (certainly in his opinion).

Most importantly Calzaghe was never knocked out by golfers and journymen. Fact.

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Pavlik was the best win of Hopkins' career because it was unexpected, had Hopkins beaten Calzaghe I am sure THAT would have been the biggest win of his career.

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So what would that make Hopkins then?

Hold on.. so you think Hopkins is as crap as Calzaghe? Fair enough...

I fail to see the logic in saying because Ward beat Kessler this makes JC's win less credible. Because in saying that it means the both Ward and Kessler must not be good? I picked Kess to win the whole thing because thought Ward was too green, but I was happy to be wrong.

I mean saying JC's win is crap now because Kess lost to WArd is a dumb statement. That's like saying PAC's Win over Cotto is less impressive because he was ruined by Margarito.

No. Calzaghe thought he could walk through him and spent the first five rounds trying to do it. Then he started to box him and started to win rounds clearly. If he'd boxed as carefully as Ward did last night he'd have won a lopsided points decision too. It was also Joe's last time making twelve stone after over a decade of having to do it. He didn't try doing it again, he knew after that fight he had to move up. Ward looked impressive last night against an absolute textbook orthodox fighter, but styles make fights and putting him in against other styles and he won't look so good, although you've got to say he looks the class of the SS field.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

No. Calzaghe thought he could walk through him and spent the first five rounds trying to do it. Then he started to box him and started to win rounds clearly. If he'd boxed as carefully as Ward did last night he'd have won a lopsided points decision too. It was also Joe's last time making twelve stone after over a decade of having to do it. He didn't try doing it again, he knew after that fight he had to move up. Ward looked impressive last night against an absolute textbook orthodox fighter, but styles make fights and putting him in against other styles and he won't look so good, although you've got to say he looks the class of the SS field.

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Calzaghe didn't leave 168 because of the weight, he left it because of the money. The money wasn't only in America, it was at 175 where he could fight Hopkins and Jones. Thought that should be made clear, it was a cool last stand but not for those reasons. Also, Ward didn't just carefully outbox Kessler, he beat up Kessler.

It's a shame we won't see Ward-Calzaghe, that would be a fun fight.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

So what would that make Hopkins then?

Hold on.. so you think Hopkins is as crap as Calzaghe? Fair enough...

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They are basically the same, Hopkins spent too much of his career at a depleated 160 fighting guys who were natural 154. Joe Calzaghe stayed at 168 and just could never be bothered to fight anyone good until time was running out on his career and the careers of his opponents were on life support.

Even though RJJ stayed at 175 forever he fought better competition than both Hopkins and Calzaghe

Calzaghe didn't only beat Kessler, he took his heart away. He took all Kessler had to offer then came back stronger. And if people want to slag Joe off then they should try acheiving half of what Joe did. And lets not forget how Joe often broke his hands in fights, but never quit, because winners don't quit and quitters never win.

I voted NO it doesn't.

I think it's more of a case that Ward is just that good.

Also Calzaghe was 35 years old... A 30 year old would of stopped him IMO.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Actually right now Kessler seems like the perfect candidate for a rematch given Joe's most recent competition.

Calzaghe fought the best when they were at their worst and that is his legacy defined.

Sure Joe is talented, but where was the challenge in his career? OLD Hopkins? OLD Roy Jones Jr? Please, the man fought 2 "tough" opponents in their primes Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler and look what just happened to Mikkel. If Joe knows what's best for his career HE will take the place of Jermain Taylor in the Super 6 and win out.....if he could beat Abraham that is ;D

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So you're knocking Calzaghe because Kessler lost, and yet Hopkins scored THE BEST (in his words) win of his career after Calzaghe but that doesn't count because he was "old."

Kessler was unbeaten when Calzaghe beat him.

Hopkins arguably scored the most impressive wins of his career either side of the Calzaghe loss (certainly in his opinion).

Most importantly Calzaghe was never knocked out by golfers and journymen. Fact.

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Yup - and mine

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Here's four more Calzaghe haters certain to vote yes - ICB, VD, Dark Lord Al, Tysonbruno

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You are right , but for the record i dont hate Calzaghe anymore.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Here's four more Calzaghe haters certain to vote yes - ICB, VD, Dark Lord Al, Tysonbruno

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Hold on a minute wasn't i the one saying Mikkel Kessler was good, and Joe Calzaghe deserved credit for the win ? and didn't i give him credit for the close win over B-HOP, even though i did scored it for B-HOP ?

Im not a hater your just a Joe Calzaghe fan, and you disagree with any negative comments on Joe Calzaghe which is fine, but im not a hater.

But i have stated many times even though, Mikkel Kessler is good he is untested and he hadn't fully proven himself yet. Everyone kept saying Mikkel Kessler will beat this guy, and give this guy a tough fight ETC.

When truthfully he is untested at the elite level, the best fighter he beat was Anthony Mundine. Who is a good fighter but elite ? im not sure about that, and who else is there really Librado Andrade ? Markus Beyer ?

Theres no doubt Mikkel Kessler is a good fighter, and Joe Calzaghe does deserve credit for beating him. But as i've told you many times, he is still untested and no one truly knows how good he is.

And obviously any loss he has now will take some credit away from the win. Personally i didn't see the fight, i've been busy and haven't really been following boxing. And to be honest i only remembered it because it was in the paper today.

But i will get round to watching it at some point, and then i will say whether or not it rubs poo on Joe Calzaghe's win as JT put it, depending on how badly Mikkel Kessler was beat.

But as others have said Mikkel Kessler isn't good at adjusting, and he's not a good inside fighter which will always be a problem. But maybe it was a bad style match up, i don't really know but all i know is that Mikkel Kessler is still untested IMO.

Kessler's not untested, that doesn't really make sense Ice, he's just not really elite.

just goes to show how good Calzaghe was... them fighters are never the same after sharing the ring with him ;D

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Kessler's not untested, that doesn't really make sense Ice, he's just not really elite.

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I meant untested at the elite level, as i pointed out his best wins are over Librado Andrade, Anthony Mundine. Maybe Anthony Mundine is borderline elite if he would fight someone with a pulse, but who else on his record is there thats really elite ?

Thats why i've always said i think Mikkel Kessler is good, but i think he's untested at the elite level. And i could never understand why people put Mikkel Kessler so high over the clouds, just because he won a quarter of the rounds against Joe Calzaghe.

Which is why i said to those people, i'd like to see more of Mikkel Kessler. And against elite opponents, with different array of styles. To see how good he really is because truly no one knew how good he truly was.

Maybe Mikkel Kessler is ruined, maybe he isn't as good as i thought. Or maybe it was a bad style match up, you tell me because i didn't see the fight.

He's been tested at the elite level, it just didn't work out for him ;D

I don't think he was ruined coming into this, it was maybe a bad style matchup and maybe Kessler was a little overrated but Ward was underrated, he was after all our only gold medal guy and other amateurs like Dirrell had gotten more of the limelight because Ward looked shaky early on.

Kessler is what he is. A bit one dimensional but that one dimension can be pretty good against a lot of guys.

I didn't love the way he was talking after the fight. Not sure where his head is at the moment, if he's right he handles Froch. If not who knows.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

He's been tested at the elite level, it just didn't work out for him ;D

I don't think he was ruined coming into this, it was maybe a bad style matchup and maybe Kessler was a little overrated but Ward was underrated, he was after all our only gold medal guy and other amateurs like Dirrell had gotten more of the limelight because Ward looked shaky early on.

Kessler is what he is. A bit one dimensional but that one dimension can be pretty good against a lot of guys.

I didn't love the way he was talking after the fight. Not sure where his head is at the moment, if he's right he handles Froch. If not who knows.

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Good anaylis pretty much spot on about Mikkel Kessler, and your right about Andre Dirrell. I have been following him more than Andre Ward, to be honest i haven't seen much of Andre Ward.

Basically because its took him so long to get into the limelight i lost interest. Which was because of injuries or ETC wasn't it ?

And when it was announced Andre Ward was in this tournament, i was going to watch some footage of him.

But because not many people thought he'd do well, i didn't really bother. But by the sounds of it, he beat Mikkel Kessler handily.

So it sounds like he's real deal so i'll have to start, watching more of his fights in the future.

Andre Dirrell vs Andre Ward is a fight i'd like to see, maybe not the most style pleasing fight, but i'd love to see it. I personally like watching great defensive matches at times, which sounds weird but i do.

Kessler was never good to begin with anyway. easily the most overrated fighter this decade.

hopkins is the best name on calzaghe's resume.

I have grossly overrated Kessler, it was a poor performance the other night and one he will take a long time in getting over. Yes there is a lot of poo about Kessler now.

No way Wards win over Kessler tarnishes Calzaghes resume. Kessler has already admitted to being broken by the Calzaghe fight and has limped along with a long lay off and a rusty tune up. He got shown up against Ward, but I also feel he fought really poorly and had to deal with some horrible tactics from Ward.

Calzaghe at his best beats Ward quite handily too. He is just too unorthodox himself and throws way too many punches. If you try to hold him to death like Hopkins did, he will still outwork you all night.

Calzaghe getting slagged off for beating someone now? ;D

Are some people sure they're not obligated?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Fenster

So you're knocking Calzaghe because Kessler lost, and yet Hopkins scored THE BEST (in his words) win of his career after Calzaghe but that doesn't count because he was "old."

Kessler was unbeaten when Calzaghe beat him.

Hopkins arguably scored the most impressive wins of his career either side of the Calzaghe loss (certainly in his opinion).

Most importantly Calzaghe was never knocked out by golfers and journymen. Fact.

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Pavlik was the best win of Hopkins' career because it was unexpected, had Hopkins beaten Calzaghe I am sure THAT would have been the biggest win of his career.

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Expected or not. He still schooled him. IIRC opinion on this board was quite divided in the sense that around half though Pavlik would KO Calzaghe. Pavlik was that highly rated. Hopkins being old has no relevance to Calzaghe, given he went and produced that performance after losing to Joe.

Even mentioning the age of Hopkins has little significance given that Calzaghe was around 36 when they fought.

In relation to the topic, Calzaghe beat Kessler properly. I'm not sure what Ward did. It was ugly anyway. However, Ward is a very good fighter, but this win doesn't take anything away from Joe. Not for me anyway.