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UFC remains king of PPV hill - UFC - Yahoo! Sports
After setting pay-per-view industry records in 2009, the Ultimate Fighting Championship faces opposition from boxing and wrestling over the next several months as it attempts to maintain last year’s levels.
It’s estimated that UFC, which didn’t publicly release figures, did nearly 8 million buys in the United States and Canada on 13 pay-per-view events this past year. That includes six of the year’s top 10 buyrates and 11 of the top 15.
UFC remains king of PPV hill - UFC - Yahoo! Sports
After setting pay-per-view industry records in 2009, the Ultimate Fighting Championship faces opposition from boxing and wrestling over the next several months as it attempts to maintain last year’s levels.
It’s estimated that UFC, which didn’t publicly release figures, did nearly 8 million buys in the United States and Canada on 13 pay-per-view events this past year. That includes six of the year’s top 10 buyrates and 11 of the top 15.
Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009
1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million
2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million
3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon
4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys
5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000
6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000
7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000
7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000
9. UFC 99: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000
10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys
Boxing really needs to do a UFC.
I STILL can't understand how it would't make great business for one of the Alphabet straps to sign up with say HBO exclusively hence boxing to the mainstream becomes WBA boxing.
Like how WCW isn't really as popular as WWF... It all revolves around Network coverage.
What am I missing ???
WCW no longer exists. It went under and went bankrupt about 9 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
And it was bought by WWF.
Which is now called the WWE.
;D
Boxing needs to do a lot to fix itself, but A #1 is getting good quality fight CARDS and not just fights in general. I, average Joe Boxing fan, will not buy Pacquiao-Clottey because the undercard sucks and that's the reason I don't buy a lot of PPV fights. There are enough good fights out there to be made to where we shouldn't have to suffer through bad fights.
Really?! Oh... :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkWCW no longer exists. It went under and went bankrupt about 9 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
And it was bought by WWF.
Which is now called the WWE.
;D
If so then... Case in point! ;D
The XYZ's should look to do the same!!!
Personally, I don't care if it is boxing or UFC that has the biggest PPV draw, I like them both for different reasons and I am certain that there is place for both. However, if boxing wants to help himself, they need to make meaningful undercards, meaningful fights and to avoid a bit more robberies like the Funeka-Guzman fight. Oh, and to treat the cheaters as they should.
Dana White is a self confessed boxing fan, and the way he runs the UFC is by learning by boxings mistakes. He ensures that there is no bullshit, and he always looks to pit the best fighters against the best fighters. There is no protected fighters in the UFC, and there isnt any bullshit politics to stop all the big fights. The best fight the best, thats it. Perfect. Limited weight divisions ensure that everybody knows who the No.1 fighter is within each division. With the exception of Fedor in the HW division, the UFC hold all the PFP fighters holding their titles in their respective divisions.
It's just a shame boxing will never be able to compete with regards White's philosophy. I'm a boxing fan of 25 years, but I'm also an MMA fanatic, and actually much prefer to watch any UFC undercard than any boxing undercard. And 10 years ago, I never thought I'd be saying that.
and on the other end of the scale, I absolutely hate UFC/MMA.
There is a lot wrong with boxing including terrible undercards but I'd still rather sit through it than UFC. Just never interested me when I've watched it.
But yeah, for the average Joe UFC makes a lot more sense than boxing would with all the different organizations, belts, promotions and TV networks. If boxing fixed itself from the inside out I have no doubt that it would destroy UFC in PPV figures.
It competes with UFC even though it's in a complete mess!
Are the prices roughly the same for UFC , Wrestling and boxing in USA ??
Think we pay £14.95 (maybe 17 can't remember) over here for boxing and know from when I was over there a few years ago it was about $45 for similar ?? Remember being surprised at the price anyway.
Have never seen a UFC fight but think we get it free here on one of teh sky channels...
Yea the UFC ( as far as im aware ) charge roughly the same as the boxing PPV's. UFC $44.99, which does compare to the boxing PPV's in the states.
Just glad us brits DONT have to pay for the UFC main events, get it free on ESPN, although ya do have to subscribe to the channel at about a tenner a month depending on ya package.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-Force
Exactly. I'm a big follower of both sports. Each have their pros and cons. Of course, like you say in UFC there are no protected guys, and no bullshit politics to stop the big fights from happening when they are under the UFC umbrella. However, unlike in boxing, fighters under two different umbrellas can't come together and negotiate a fight. MMA fans are robbed of seeing great fighters OUTSIDE of the UFC fight the champs of UFC. Guys like Fedor and Aoki.
I'm glad the UFC is giving boxing a run for its money. Compedition is a great thing for the consumer. The UFC's big PPV draws are going to force boxing promoters to step up the quality of their shows, and pressure them to make the BIG fights that the public wants to see. On the other side, it forces Dana White (who really has no serious compedition in terms of MMA in North America) to put on great cards to compete with the big money events in boxing. So for us fans (especially those who love both sports), its WIN/WIN imo.
Exactly, in fact, the UFC certainly had a huge impact on forcing some of the Superfights in boxing in recent times due to their incredible growth in popularity. Bob Arum and Oscar patched up their differences realising the competition from the UFC was preventing boxings superfights, and subsquently damaging the sport. Good call on Shinya as well, I meant to put him in my initial post as he is the only threat to BJ's premier lightweight accolade.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-Force
Exactly. I'm a big follower of both sports. Each have their pros and cons. Of course, like you say in UFC there are no protected guys, and no bullshit politics to stop the big fights from happening when they are under the UFC umbrella. However, unlike in boxing, fighters under two different umbrellas can't come together and negotiate a fight. MMA fans are robbed of seeing great fighters OUTSIDE of the UFC fight the champs of UFC. Guys like Fedor and Aoki.
I'm glad the UFC is giving boxing a run for its money. Compedition is a great thing for the consumer. The UFC's big PPV draws are going to force boxing promoters to step up the quality of their shows, and pressure them to make the BIG fights that the public wants to see. On the other side, it forces Dana White (who really has no serious compedition in terms of MMA in North America) to put on great cards to compete with the big money events in boxing. So for us fans (especially those who love both sports), its WIN/WIN imo.
UFC/WWE have the sense and knowledge to know the hardcore fan is much more likely to pay 50bucks to see his favourite fighter/fighters over an entire night and they both dont segregate themselves to showing 1 fight cards.
If you dont particularly enjoy a UFC/WWF main event no biggy, the rest of the night is full of world class matchups, scantily clad women, theatrical entrances etc who cares if the sport in general is either gay or fake.
If you dont happen to be a particular fan of floyd mayweather you dont buy the card end of story.
The day a mayweather-pacquiao card is backed up with jones-hopkins, hatton-marquez etc is the very day boxing takes both showhorse sports to the cleaners.
WCW was taken over by WWE ( then WWF ) but Eric Bischoff the money man behind it has branched off and joined forced with Hogan who now have Tna wrestling. They have no hope competing with boxing but are having a ratinsg war with Vince. Their leading star was Bobby Lashley but he asked for release from his contract so he join strikeforce ( the rival to UFC ) to take up real fighting. They want to build him up in a rival organisation like they did with Lesnar and when those two meet it will be huge.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboogieReally?! Oh... :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkWCW no longer exists. It went under and went bankrupt about 9 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
And it was bought by WWF.
Which is now called the WWE.
;D
If so then... Case in point! ;D
The XYZ's should look to do the same!!!
Boxing didnt have any massive fights featuring Americans so its not too surprising that a small Peurto Rican vs a small Filipino didnt outsell a fight between two Amercian heavyweight cage fighters. Mosley vs Floyd will do well because they are both Yanks.
I agree with the person who said Dana White makes it so fighters cant duck each other. Dana cops a lot of shit from everyone but not from me, I like his no bullshit attitude. At least hes speaking his mind and at least the UFC get super fights happening immediately, where as boxing it takes yrs and yrs of ego bruising and then finally a fight.
Dont get me wrong, I love boxing way more then UFC but in the end there is something to be learnt from the way ufc is managed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
hell of a lot of home truths in that snakey
But its hard to compare a major UFC showdown where there are hundreds of thousands at stake and a major boxing showdown when your talking about tens of millions of dollars.
Could this be the reason why UFC remains king of PPV hill?Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
This. UFC has a PPV every month and when you compare the UFC's revenue to every other major sport including boxing, it's peanuts the percentage of that revenue that actually makes it back to the fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
hell of a lot of home truths in that snakey
But its hard to compare a major UFC showdown where there are hundreds of thousands at stake and a major boxing showdown when your talking about tens of millions of dollars.
Just to add to my first post - You guys reminded me with the subject of wrestling...
I used to be a big fan when I was younger - The stories were well written, charachters were bold and belts meant a lot, even though it was "sports entertainment". (I'm talking about the 1998-2002'ish period)
The reason this is relevant is that back then WWE could sell out 20'000 seat arena's weekly and I imagine (but don't know for sure) that they did better ppv sales too. Anyone flicked through recently on some WWE? They're lucky to get 4'000-5'000 in attendance.
Why is this? It relates back to boxing. Since WWE aquired ECW and WCW there are now too many belts! Too many world champions, too many different rosters of wrestlers and too many "promotions" (even though they're under the same company).
WWE has split it's roster 3 ways and given each roster/TV show 4 or 5 different belts. The public don't know what the hell is going on anymore, nor do they care.
So, there is obviously a case for having ONE show, belt and organization shown by the WWE's business model! I hear they only really make money through their international tours these days
For the good of the sport of boxing, it would be perfect to have one body - For the good of greedy individuals? Not so much..so I don't really see it changing in the near future.
Great post here Hammer. I always remember paying for Judgement night on Sky. It had Benn Vs Collins, Naz Vs Molina, Winky was on the card and then the main event was Evander Vs Tyson now that was worth the tenner. (My Dad actually paid as I was only a little squirt)Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammer
Just checked out the whole American card and that had Michael Moorer Vs Botha , Henry Akinwande and Ricardo Lopez on the undercard. Now that would sell big time right now!!
Exactly, its how the business pie is being split. Its real simple to figure. The percentage of money from the PPVs that is given to the fighters is minimal. I never get why people don't see or understand this is why UFC easily runs the PPV numbers for the year. Boxing could do a better job but there is no way it can match UFC in PPVs because in comparison the UFC fighters are getting sweatshop wages. St. Pierre, arguably the p4p guy of the sport, got $60,000 for one of his last two fights. If Pac or PBF were normally getting less than 6 figures then boxing would have no competition in PPV sales because you could load a card riddled with p4p guys and have a total payroll of less than $1 million. For Pac and PBF to get in the ring together they command a predicted $70 million pie to split. That kind of pie would pay every UFC notable for years to come. That would include getting Anderson Silva/GSP, UFC's top 2 p4p match, together. Boxing PPVs have a payroll of many millions while UFC PPVs have at best a tenth of boxing's. Many of the UFC fighters have complained about their wages and that they have to earn those bonuses, like KO of the night, in their fight to even get a decent wage. As long as the UFC can consistently get away with paying their fighters 5 or 6 figures they will always have a PPV every month and with many top guys in it. The UFC and the fans get what they want and the fighters have no better option. Its simple business.Quote:
Originally Posted by amatThis. UFC has a PPV every month and when you compare the UFC's revenue to every other major sport including boxing, it's peanuts the percentage of that revenue that actually makes it back to the fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by Snakey
hell of a lot of home truths in that snakey
But its hard to compare a major UFC showdown where there are hundreds of thousands at stake and a major boxing showdown when your talking about tens of millions of dollars.
Do you know what's funny comparing UFC's fight purses and boxing's? Muhammad Ali in his early days and even career earned more than UFC's stars today. Ali's biggest pay day before the 1st Liston fight was around 56k the same kind of money that some stars in the UFC are making and this was back in the 60s.
29/10/60 vs Hunsaker $2000
27/12/60 vs Siler $200
17/01/61 vs Esperti $545
07/02/61 vs Robinson $645
21/02/61 vs Fleeman $913
19/04/61 vs Clark $2548
26/06/61 vs Sabedong $1500
22/07/61 vs Johnson $6636
07/10/61 vs Miteff $5644
29/11/61 vs Besmanoff $2048
10/02/62 vs Banks $5014
28/02/62 vs Warner $1675
23/04/62 vs Logan $9206
19/05/62 vs Daniels $6000
20/07/62 vs Lavorante $15,149
15/11/62 vs Moore $45,300
24/01/63 vs Powell $14,331
13/03/63 vs Jones $57,668
18/06/63 vs Cooper $56,098
25/02/64 vs Liston $464,595
25/05/65 vs Liston $361,819
22/11/65 vs Patterson $300,078
29/03/66 vs Chuvalo $66,332
21/05/66 vs Cooper $448,186
06/08/66 vs London $290,411
10/09/66 vs Mildenberger $211,576
14/11/66 vs Williams $405,000
06/02/67 vs Terrell $585,000
22/03/67 vs Folley $275,000
Exile: April 1967 - September 1970
26/10/70 vs Quarry $580,000
07/12/70 vs Bonavena $925,000
08/03/71 vs Frazier $2,500,000
26/07/71 vs Ellis $450,000
17/11/71 vs Mathis $300,000
26/12/71 vs Blin $250,000
01/04/72 vs Foster $200,000
01/05/72 vs Chuvalo $200,000
27/06/72 vs Quarry $500,000
19/07/72 vs Lewis $200,000
20/09/72 vs Patterson $250,000
21/11/72 vs Foster $260,000
14/02/73 vs Bugner $285,000
31/03/73 vs Norton $210,000
10/09/73 vs Norton $535,000
20/10/73 vs Lubbers $200,000
28/01/74 vs Frazier $1,715,000
30/10/74 vs Foreman $5,450,000
24/03/75 vs Wepner $1,500,000
16/05/75 vs Lyle $1,000,000
30/06/75 vs Bugner $2,100,000
30/09/75 vs Frazier $6,000,000
The problem with comparing money from boxing and mma is you are using the superstars of the sport.
You take a guy in ufc that's just a contender, nothing special and compare him to a light weight guy that fights on undercards, or friday night fights.
What you'll find is guys is ufc on average do better than average boxers.
The top paid boxers are way above ufc, but it's more like baseball or football being that they belong to a league and the lowest paid guy is better off than the lowest paid boxer. You don't get nearly the same highs and lows as boxing has. Most boxers don't make enough to earn a living. Only the top level and even then lots of them don't hit the million mark.
Were talking about PPV though. Basically the top guys and the guys you pay to see. Not FNF. The average PPV payroll for boxing is in the millions. For UFC, the average payroll is hardly even a tenth of a boxing PPV payroll. But even the FNF boxers get what a lot of UFC top fighters get. My friend Marcos Ramirez was a constant ESPN2 fighter and he was getting $20,000 to $50,000 on his televised fights. And the average UFC fighter is not like an average MMA fighter. UFC fighters are picked and signed and they are above average MMA fighters. Many of the UFC fighters get that range or less than that and only a few get more. But I do have some friends in MMA and the bottom level MMA fighters do usually get more than the bottom level boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
That's kind of sad that St. Pierre got 60k for 1 of his last fights as someone pointed out and this guy is a top star in his sport. Muhammad Ali an unknown green boxer was getting around that kind of pay 56k before his Liston fight, and this was about almost 50 years ago!
Where is the source for this quote ? I'd be very suprised. Also GSP will have earned 4 times that amount with all the other sponsors, bonus's thrown in. There is no way on this earth that GSP earned 60k for one of his recent fights, no chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Don't ask me, ask blegit he pointed it out that GSP only got 60k in 1 of his last fights. It's the post before the one I made about Ali's fight purses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceWhere is the source for this quote ? I'd be very suprised. Also GSP will have earned 4 times that amount with all the other sponsors, bonus's thrown in. There is no way on this earth that GSP earned 60k for one of his recent fights, no chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogDon't ask me, ask blegit he pointed it out that GSP only got 60k in 1 of his last fights. It's the post before the one I made about Ali's fight purses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceWhere is the source for this quote ? I'd be very suprised. Also GSP will have earned 4 times that amount with all the other sponsors, bonus's thrown in. There is no way on this earth that GSP earned 60k for one of his recent fights, no chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Ufc 100 GSP got 400k bit different to 60 k lol plus a 200k win bonus so in total 600k.
UFC 100 fighters salaries: Lesnar and St-Pierre get top paydays in $1.8 million payroll | MMAjunkie.com
Sorry if this is a little blunt, but I'd hazard a guess that UFC isn't "King" of any hill, and this thread should be moved, i'm bored of seeing the thread title up there. UFC, MMA or any other contest of similar ilk won't be taking over boxing anytime soon. I don't think two men spending half the time or even any time grappling each other on the floor appeals to a wide enough audience..... ha
You're right GSP made 70k and 80k in 2 of his last 6 fights. But I did say in my quote that the fighters have to make their bonuses to make a decent payday. So GSP did win those fights and earned double those figures but we are talking about one of the best MMA fighters ever. Frank Mirs' last fight with Brock Lesner in the recordbreaking UFC 100, fighter payroll of 1.8 million, he never made a bonus because he lost and he walked away with 45k. Brock made out good in that event due to great negotiations of a cut of the PPV sales. The UFC 100 made over $5 million in live gate alone. If you factor in bonuses, which aren't guaranteed, then you have to factor in the deductions like trainer fees, gym fees, sparring partner fees, and taxes. And sponsorship, which is not a fixture, is coming from an outside entity not UFC. Here is a link where Heath Herring is complaining about that only a certain few make decent salaries. Heath Herring Attacks UFC Salary Structure - Watch Kalib RunAnd the link also shows that the UFC made over $357 million in 2009 in just PPV revenue not the live gate. Considering that there were 15 UFC PPV events in 2009 and the fighters' payroll averaged about $1 million per event then you are talking about roughly 4% going to the fighters for the 2009 year. In comparison MLB, NFL, NBA, and the NHL all give more than 50% to the athletes. There are a few select UFC fighters who make a decent payday at some events but even those guys aren't getting their fair share. But back to the point. As long as UFC can get away with paying their fighters a total payroll of 4% of just their PPV take then they will remain the PPV king with no competition in sight. Simple business.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy G-ForceWhere is the source for this quote ? I'd be very suprised. Also GSP will have earned 4 times that amount with all the other sponsors, bonus's thrown in. There is no way on this earth that GSP earned 60k for one of his recent fights, no chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog