What if Tyson and Douglas had a rematch?

I notice there is a lot of people that point to their first fight as the moment it was proven Mike Tyson was overrated and that it proved he wasn't a big deal, or that all you had to do was stand up to Tyson to beat him.


I think this is a huge misconception. Everyone likes to mention a fighters shortcomings before losing a fight but they treat Tyson's loss to Douglas as if he trained his butt off for that fight and was beaten.

There were a lot of factors, "shades of Tokyo" where Tyson wasn't training, was having sex with a lot of women, and wasn't taking the fight seriously even to the point of getting knocked down by sparring partners.

Douglas trained his heart out and had his mother's death inspire him to a victory and he was the better man that night, it was the perfect time for Douglas and the worse time for Tyson. That said..

Everyone that says that the Douglas fight proved Tyson was overrated, tell me this, if they had a rematch back then, would you have fancied Douglas to beat Mike again?

If you think about it, if they had a rematch, much like Lennox Lewis vs Rahman the first one, Lewis wasn't taking Rahman seriously, was filming a movie was doing all this stuff except focus on the fight and Rahman fought the fight of his life, in the rematch, it was a little different wasn't it?

So, had Douglas and Tyson rematched, you would obviously have Mike taking Douglas seriously, training his butt off for redemption and would Douglas be able to put in the same effort in training that he did the last time without his dead mother's inspiration.

So here's my question, what if Tyson and Douglas had their rematch, maybe 5 months after he beat Mike. A motivated, training hard Mike Tyson vs the new heavyweight Champion Buster Douglas.

How do you see that one going? And if Tyson wins, does history still look at him as overrated? do they point to that night as the night it all fell apart for Mike Tyson, or would it change your opinion completely?

Personally, I think if they had a rematch a Motivated Tyson knocks him out the way many felt he would initially. But I want to hear everyone else's opinion. What if they had a rematch? Would you pick Douglas to win it again? Or does a motivated Mike take him out? And if so what does it change? I've wondered this for a while, just wanted to get your opinions on it.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

I notice there is a lot of people that point to their first fight as the moment it was proven Mike Tyson was overrated and that it proved he wasn't a big deal, or that all you had to do was stand up to Tyson to beat him.


I think this is a huge misconception. Everyone likes to mention a fighters shortcomings before losing a fight but they treat Tyson's loss to Douglas as if he trained his butt off for that fight and was beaten.

There were a lot of factors, "shades of Tokyo" where Tyson wasn't training, was having sex with a lot of women, and wasn't taking the fight seriously even to the point of getting knocked down by sparring partners.

Douglas trained his heart out and had his mother's death inspire him to a victory and he was the better man that night, it was the perfect time for Douglas and the worse time for Tyson. That said..

Everyone that says that the Douglas fight proved Tyson was overrated, tell me this, if they had a rematch back then, would you have fancied Douglas to beat Mike again?

If you think about it, if they had a rematch, much like Lennox Lewis vs Rahman the first one, Lewis wasn't taking Rahman seriously, was filming a movie was doing all this stuff except focus on the fight and Rahman fought the fight of his life, in the rematch, it was a little different wasn't it?

So, had Douglas and Tyson rematched, you would obviously have Mike taking Douglas seriously, training his butt off for redemption and would Douglas be able to put in the same effort in training that he did the last time without his dead mother's inspiration.

So here's my question, what if Tyson and Douglas had their rematch, maybe 5 months after he beat Mike. A motivated, training hard Mike Tyson vs the new heavyweight Champion Buster Douglas.

How do you see that one going? And if Tyson wins, does history still look at him as overrated? do they point to that night as the night it all fell apart for Mike Tyson, or would it change your opinion completely?

Personally, I think if they had a rematch a Motivated Tyson knocks him out the way many felt he would initially. But I want to hear everyone else's opinion. What if they had a rematch? Would you pick Douglas to win it again? Or does a motivated Mike take him out? And if so what does it change? I've wondered this for a while, just wanted to get your opinions on it.

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i think Douglas would have gone back to his lazy ways and Tyson would have stopped him brutally within 3

I think Tyson's an all-time great but I go with Douglas. Tyson was mentally weak. Once he loses confidence its over. If he doesn't dominate early, he doesn't dominate at all. He showed virtually no ability in his career to comback during a fight.

HIs greatness was his ability to genrate fear, intimidate and then overwhelm his opponant. If that failed there was no plan B. Fortunately for him, he could do that 95% of the time.

I see no evidence that MIke had untertrained or was out of shape for the fight. He looked ripped and the scale didn't indicate any problem. If the probelm was overconfidnece or perhaps menatal distraction, it doesn't matter. Tyson's nature is once his confidence is breeched, he can't adjust and comeback. By defeatring him the first time, Douglas owned him for life.

I would of favored Tyson in a rematch.

A properly motivated and trained Tyson would end the fight within 5 rounds.

IMO Douglas could not have ever equalled that performance, it was a one-off super huma effort. Look how he looked in his next fight aganst Holyfield. Tyson inside 3.

And Tyson clearly should not have neen in the ring that night, he was a zombie! Having said that even a 100% Tyson would have find Douglas ery hard work on that night - Douglas was awesome!

Mike Tyson without a shadow of doubt. Mike Tyson after that loss looked like the old Mike Tyson again with good wins over. Alex Stewart, Henry Tillman, Razor Ruddock 1.

Where as Buster Douglas after his one off great performance, due to the tragedy that happened in his life. That made him fear nothing, although i thought he done well vs Tony Tucker aswell.

He went back to the old Buster Douglas, fat, lazy, with a suspect heart. He looked terrible vs Evander Holyfield, and Mike Tyson would have destroyed that version of Buster Douglas.

Tyson easily. It would take a few rounds maximum. Douglas was granted Tyson on a plate and fair play to the man on taking his opportunity, but it was a one off.

Buster would have KO'ed him again. Tyson is the most overrated fighter of all time, who was champion in the weakest era of HW boxing of all time. Fought 2 good fighters his entire career, and was KTFO by both. KTFO by a bunch of tomato cans as well. He is basically Sam Peter.

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Originally Posted by eagleskins

Buster would have KO'ed him again. Tyson is the most overrated fighter of all time, who was champion in the weakest era of HW boxing of all time. Fought 2 good fighters his entire career, and was KTFO by both. KTFO by a bunch of tomato cans as well. He is basically Sam Peter.

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Nonsene.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

IMO Douglas could not have ever equalled that performance, it was a one-off super huma effort. Look how he looked in his next fight aganst Holyfield. Tyson inside 3.

And Tyson clearly should not have neen in the ring that night, he was a zombie! Having said that even a 100% Tyson would have find Douglas ery hard work on that night - Douglas was awesome!

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Ah, come off it!

Even the untrained underprepared Tyson still had enough left in the tank to9 drop Douglas hard well in the 8th round, the bell sounding as soon as he got up saved him, he was gone!

If that had been a Tyson that was still with Rooney, it wouldnt have gone that far.

If Tyson had have had the rematch, yeah he wins, if the best Douglas turns up I still think Mike wins, he struggles but wins, if the Holyfield version turned up, he wouldnt make it out of the first.

Then Holyfield wouldnt have a soft touch defending champion, he would have had Mike and looking how Bert Cooper had him out on his feet I think even that version of Tyson beats him.

First of all i'm the first to say Tyson is overrated, but he was not himself that night. Now whether he had trained properly or whatever, I don't know, I wasn't in his camp to comment, but on the night of the fight he simply wasn't himself.

In a rematch I think he would have had a lot to prove and I really see a performance something like what Roy Jones did against Montell Griffin in their rematch. In fact if it was 1990 now and they were about 6 months on from the first fight I think Tyson wins by 1st round KO.

Douglas was never the same, he definitely could have got up against Holyfield in his next fight. Tyson would have finished that fat version within a round.

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by BIG H

IMO Douglas could not have ever equalled that performance, it was a one-off super huma effort. Look how he looked in his next fight aganst Holyfield. Tyson inside 3.

And Tyson clearly should not have neen in the ring that night, he was a zombie! Having said that even a 100% Tyson would have find Douglas ery hard work on that night - Douglas was awesome!

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Ah, come off it!

Even the untrained underprepared Tyson still had enough left in the tank to9 drop Douglas hard well in the 8th round, the bell sounding as soon as he got up saved him, he was gone!

If that had been a Tyson that was still with Rooney, it wouldnt have gone that far.

If Tyson had have had the rematch, yeah he wins, if the best Douglas turns up I still think Mike wins, he struggles but wins, if the Holyfield version turned up, he wouldnt make it out of the first.

Then Holyfield wouldnt have a soft touch defending champion, he would have had Mike and looking how Bert Cooper had him out on his feet I think even that version of Tyson beats him.

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You don't think Douglas was awesome that night :confused:

That was the first time i ever saw Douglas fight that night - ok I saw it a week later on video.

No matter how bad Tyson was or flawed - Douglas was unbelievable. Mentally strong and phenomenal hand speed if I recall. How Tyson survived the 9th I will never know. Douglas just wasn't going to be denied.

What I didn't know was that Douglas was a lazy shite and I had him an easy winner against Holyfield, if he was near the form he was in in Tokyo. He was a joke and had badly prepared.

Think it was Gary Mason, I could be wrong, who was doing the co-commentary that night on Sky and within 30 seconds he had said something to the effect that Douglas would lose as he could tell he wasn't in shape.

The fat bastard would probabaly have been in same shape for a Tyson rematch so on those grounds I reckon Tyson would have rolled over himn inside of 2 rounds.

But what he did that night in Tokyo gurantees him legendary status alongside Braddock and such.

Buster Douglas took the fight to Tyson in that match. The jab was beautiful, the 1-2 was landing solid, he tied up on the inside, he frustrated Mike to no end...I think the fight was lost when Buster got up from the knockdown, that had to be devistating to Tyson's morale.

Buster Douglas was motivated enough to where he could have taken out ANYONE that night, he was prepared to go through hell to get his win for his recently deceased Mother. You might compare it to when Lamon Brewster took the punishment off of Wladimir Klitschko for 4 rounds before winning the fight he dedicated to his late trainer. The problem with Buster was he was never properly motivated after that fight, he had glimmers of greatness early on in his career and then shades of futility like when he fought Tucker and Ferguson and fame and fortune got the best of him....it's one of the reasons I see Louis and Marciano as 2 of the GREATEST because they rarely (in Joe's case) and never (in Rocky's case) took their eye off the ball whether it was a title fight or not.

With all the attention that Buster got after his win over Tyson I think he could have fought any kind of bum in his next fight and it would have at least been close but his management chose the big money fight and he got flattened and had it been a rematch, maybe, MAYBE Douglas lasts 5 based off of his past success but lack of training and all the distractions would have seen him stopped, I think in 8 because I think Tyson would have been a little more tenative to attack as well knowing Buster's power and effectiveness.

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Originally Posted by eagleskins

Buster would have KO'ed him again. Tyson is the most overrated fighter of all time, who was champion in the weakest era of HW boxing of all time. Fought 2 good fighters his entire career, and was KTFO by both. KTFO by a bunch of tomato cans as well. He is basically Sam Peter.

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:lol: what a fucking retard

I wouldn't call Tyson "Sam Peter" but I would say he's overhyped.....but Ibeabuchi's hype beats anyone elses when you actually look at the actual acheivements he had in the ring.

I would have loved to have seen Tyson-Bowe or Tyson-Briggs in the early to mid 1990's. Both those fights could have gone either way depending on which Tyson and which Bowe or Briggs showed up. Tyson-Bowe would have been incredible and I think Tyson may have been able to take him out....Bowe never really fought too many punchers and Holyfield was able to put him down and wear him out. I just would never pass up an opportunity to see Shannon Briggs have another "asthma attack"

I think 90% of boxing upsets would of been avenged in a rematch...
Ali - Foreman is a biggie for me.

Tyson - Douglas im not so sure about. Tyson's life was slipping at this point but I'm sure if he'd actually put in work, he'd of done the business at any point in their respective careers.

I'd say the same thing that happened when Douglas fought Holyfield.

Tyson KO 2.

....some of you guys forget that Mike Tyson only rematched 1 guy that beat him and that match didn't end with any more positive results as he had the first time.

I think at that point in time Tyson would have had a difficult time with Douglas just because he had already been beaten up by him and Douglas had taken big shots off of Tyson too. That being said a big old fat slow Buster Douglas couldn't last the distance vs too many guys. I just think in a rematch Tyson would have been given a fight that he would have to WORK to get the W for.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....some of you guys forget that Mike Tyson only rematched 1 guy that beat him and that match didn't end with any more positive results as he had the first time.

I think at that point in time Tyson would have had a difficult time with Douglas just because he had already been beaten up by him and Douglas had taken big shots off of Tyson too. That being said a big old fat slow Buster Douglas couldn't last the distance vs too many guys. I just think in a rematch Tyson would have been given a fight that he would have to WORK to get the W for.

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He wouldn't have rematched Douglas, becuase when Tyson came out of the Pen, Douglas was about 400 Pounds

Lewis - the first fight didn't really warrant a rematch

Williams & McBride - LMAO

Mike actually beat Buster in that fight already with that 14 or 16 count Buster got when Mike knocked him down. If the referee did count 10 Mike would have been the winner. I am surprised not much has been said about that long count Buster got which saved his ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=herKRIrsks4

Tyson vs Douglas Punch out style!;D

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....some of you guys forget that Mike Tyson only rematched 1 guy that beat him and that match didn't end with any more positive results as he had the first time.

I think at that point in time Tyson would have had a difficult time with Douglas just because he had already been beaten up by him and Douglas had taken big shots off of Tyson too. That being said a big old fat slow Buster Douglas couldn't last the distance vs too many guys. I just think in a rematch Tyson would have been given a fight that he would have to WORK to get the W for.

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Yes but Razor Ruddick was a much more consistent fighter than Buster Douglas.

LOU SAVARESE knocked out Douglas in I believe one round.

Chino GIVE IT UP Tyson got the shit kicked out of him in that fight.

When Razor Ruddock is "more consistent" than you then you know you're in bad shape. I know he couldn't rematch EVERYONE he lost to, I just made the point about Holyfield because Tyson obviously didn't want to get KO'd again.

I still think fights with Mercer, Bowe, and Briggs would have been very entertaining

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Chino GIVE IT UP Tyson got the shit kicked out of him in that fight.

When Razor Ruddock is "more consistent" than you then you know you're in bad shape. I know he couldn't rematch EVERYONE he lost to, I just made the point about Holyfield because Tyson obviously didn't want to get KO'd again.

I still think fights with Mercer, Bowe, and Briggs would have been very entertaining

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And Douglas WAS in bad shape. lol

Mercer might could have beaten post-prison Tyson. Bowe and Briggs were scared of him I'd imagine and would have gotten their asses kicked. Briggs would have for sure anyway.

Tyson did beat himself coming into that fight by not training properly and over-estimating his intimidation capacity over Douglas and he paid the price, not only by his defeat but also because something got broken inside for good.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

And Douglas WAS in bad shape. lol

Mercer might could have beaten post-prison Tyson. Bowe and Briggs were scared of him I'd imagine and would have gotten their asses kicked. Briggs would have for sure anyway.

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Well yes Douglas was out of shape there was no point of a rematch with him unless it was immediate.

Mercer could have beaten him, Bowe would have made it interesting just because he had very good skill when properly motivated. And as for Briggs you're right and that's 100% why I would have loved to see that fight

Tyson, Bowe and Briggs are all from Brownsville, Brooklyn.

Briggs has the build and the talent to be great, or least he did, but I don't think he ever trained hard enough, and he def was lacking mentally.

Still the beating he gave that Abraham Okine guy a few years back on FNF was fuckin HILARIOUS. ;D

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Hulk

And Douglas WAS in bad shape. lol

Mercer might could have beaten post-prison Tyson. Bowe and Briggs were scared of him I'd imagine and would have gotten their asses kicked. Briggs would have for sure anyway.

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Well yes Douglas was out of shape there was no point of a rematch with him unless it was immediate.

Mercer could have beaten him, Bowe would have made it interesting just because he had very good skill when properly motivated. And as for Briggs you're right and that's 100% why I would have loved to see that fight

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Personally I think Tyson would have smashed Mercer to pieces. Mercer liked to display his granite chin too much and against Tyson the granite would have been smashed into dust.

I remember Lewis going to court to stop Mike from having a warm up bout with Mercer a few months before their bout.

Mike had his busiest year in 2000 ending with Golota, he said it was going to be his last fight when interviewed before hand, he wanted out then.

Then he has a fight scheduled against David Izonreti in 2001 but it falls through for whatever reason, he signs to fight Lewis and wants a warm up as he wouldnt have fought for nearly 2 years and had only managed a few minutes of action in 2000, he has a fight arranged with Mercer but Lewis stops it, you could say Lewis was worried he might lose but its also a possibility (given Stewards reprimanding of Lewis between rounds how Mike is still dangerous and he needs to get him out of there and then after the fight praising Mike up) that Steward didnt want Mike sharpening up and getting fit.

In 2001 Mike went up to Catskills looking for Rooney and Steve Lott, neither were around, Steve found out and contacted Mike, they met up and Steve spoke with Mike about the possibility of joining up and training with Rooney again and taking a few soft touches and doing a few fights round the world to lift his profile and get him sharp then see how they get on skills wise before any title challenge, Mike was interested but as soon as he left the leaches that were around him at the time, inluding Finkel would not have him leave their fold, they were even screening who contacted him, they then pushed him in to a fight he knew he wouldnt be ready for.

All up to that fight you could see Mike knew he wasnt ready from the scuffle at the press conference, to the forced grin on the scales and timid ring walk, he didnt have the arrogant confident aura he gave off when he had that team around him, he knew he had words of wisdom, reassurance and tactics to fall back on when returning to the corner after a difficult round, instead of the fools that had to resort to rubbing a johnny full of water over his face in the Douglas fight, he was living on his power and chin alone after that.

Mike went to Catskills to get that team and try and do things right before the lewis fight.

Tyson was unpredictable, he needed to stay busy but just not dedicated or motivated which is why he fought sporadically. He would get out of condition but had he stayed busy, he would have been a force, even then.

Hold on a sec, I completely forgot about the fight Mike had with Brian Nielson!! That was the first fight that Mike looked fat!!

He came out like an animal that First round and credit to Nielson, he took some nice shots but in the end sat down in the corner between rounds, round 8 I think, Mike didnt erally have much steam left either from what I can remember, he was out of shape for this and held alot.

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Originally Posted by Master

Tyson was unpredictable, he needed to stay busy but just not dedicated or motivated which is why he fought sporadically. He would get out of condition but had he stayed busy, he would have been a force, even then.

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Pressure fighters like Tyson age out of the game quicker than most. Look at Floyd Patterson, look at Jose Torres...those guys peaked and bang they were done.

Mike Tyson was NEVER going to be better than he was when he was young, he was NEVER going to beat Holyfield, he was NEVER going to beat Lewis and yes even with proper training he would have still struggled with guys like Ruddock(whom he did struggle with a bit in the rematch).

Manny Steward wanted Lennox to cement his legacy by punishing Tyson, they weren't afraid of him. Manny just wanted Lennox to end the fight with a bang instead of dragging it out.

Had Tyson never left Rooney, things may have been different but I doubt he would have held on much longer than he did. Holyfield was just after Douglas and I just think Evander's attitude, chin, ability to fight on the inside and fight dirtier than Tyson without getting caught would have always had the upperhand in that match up....just my opinion though. Some people like to think Tyson was invincible but that peekaboo style has it's flaws, all another fighter needed to do was be brave enough to stick to the game plan Holyfield and Lewis were brave enough and smart enough to do it at pretty much any point in their careers.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Master

Tyson was unpredictable, he needed to stay busy but just not dedicated or motivated which is why he fought sporadically. He would get out of condition but had he stayed busy, he would have been a force, even then.

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Pressure fighters like Tyson age out of the game quicker than most. Look at Floyd Patterson, look at Jose Torres...those guys peaked and bang they were done.

Mike Tyson was NEVER going to be better than he was when he was young, he was NEVER going to beat Holyfield, he was NEVER going to beat Lewis and yes even with proper training he would have still struggled with guys like Ruddock(whom he did struggle with a bit in the rematch).

Manny Steward wanted Lennox to cement his legacy by punishing Tyson, they weren't afraid of him. Manny just wanted Lennox to end the fight with a bang instead of dragging it out.

Had Tyson never left Rooney, things may have been different but I doubt he would have held on much longer than he did. Holyfield was just after Douglas and I just think Evander's attitude, chin, ability to fight on the inside and fight dirtier than Tyson without getting caught would have always had the upperhand in that match up....just my opinion though. Some people like to think Tyson was invincible but that peekaboo style has it's flaws, all another fighter needed to do was be brave enough to stick to the game plan Holyfield and Lewis were brave enough and smart enough to do it at pretty much any point in their careers.

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Pressure fighters do burn out quickly because of the punishment they take, but here's the thing, Tyson barely got hit when he was with the Catskill gang. The head and upper body movement was supreme. And he basically cleaned out the HW division within 2-3 years. Here's the kicker, after he left Rooney and fought Bruno next, he got hit more than he did than in his 1st 35 fights! The head and upper body movement was gone, he just became a 1 dimensional head hunter that stood up straight and just relied on power and chin.

I may have said Tyson was a little bit overrated, but I still fancy a 21 year old Tyson under Rooney to give a tough fight to any HW champ in history.

There has never been another MIke Tyson since, a combination of speed and power. The HW legends in the past either had speed or power, but not a combination of the 2. It's a sad thing that Tyson had mental and outside problems and never reached his full potential. But for that 3 year period when he was with Rooney, he did looked invincible, only a bonecrusher smith punch at the end of 12 had him a bit wobble.

Exactly, Mike coul avoid punches like no one, there were patches in fights where he got so confient hed stand in front of an opponent and bob, weave, roll, he couldnt be ht until he left Rooney and wasnt being drilled in the D,amato system.

Alot of people oon this forum are too young to remember how massive and popular Tyson was in the Eighties, he advertised pepsi, he had his own Nintendo game, he was a spokesperson for the New York city police department and the FBI, Tyson was as big as Michael jackson in the late Eighties.

Its now popular for people to downplay his skills and say he was just a bully, the truth is we never got to see a fair comparrison of that skillfull honed Mike tyson against the better fighters that came after his first reign.

Mikes explosive style would have lasted till he was 30 at least, he needed that explosive speed that he still does have so he could well have gone on to be the geratest fighter that lived, he could still take a shot and still had power but his power did dwindle a little as he slowed but his slowing was down to not having the right trainer, I remember Buddy McGirt had Mike training in his gym for a few days before one of his later comebacks and he said Mikes knowledge and capabilities even then were amazing, he said Mike told him about the D,amato syatem and now Buddy realised that it wasnt just about the peekaboo style but every move set up another, Mike had a style that was actually a system, like mathmatical equasions, hed keep trying difefrent numbers till he got the right answer, no one else understood it other than D,Amatos understudies which is why no one else other than Ronney would work for Tyson.

How anyone could call a 5,9" 216lb fighter a bully in a division of giants is a joke, the otehr thing that makes me laugh is how the Eighties is always passed off as a dead time for heavyweights, there were lots of skillfull heavies around, much more than the past 15 years, just because Mike was that good he could do it without getting hit.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Master

Tyson was unpredictable, he needed to stay busy but just not dedicated or motivated which is why he fought sporadically. He would get out of condition but had he stayed busy, he would have been a force, even then.

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Pressure fighters like Tyson age out of the game quicker than most. Look at Floyd Patterson, look at Jose Torres...those guys peaked and bang they were done.

Mike Tyson was NEVER going to be better than he was when he was young, he was NEVER going to beat Holyfield, he was NEVER going to beat Lewis and yes even with proper training he would have still struggled with guys like Ruddock(whom he did struggle with a bit in the rematch).

Manny Steward wanted Lennox to cement his legacy by punishing Tyson, they weren't afraid of him. Manny just wanted Lennox to end the fight with a bang instead of dragging it out.

Had Tyson never left Rooney, things may have been different but I doubt he would have held on much longer than he did. Holyfield was just after Douglas and I just think Evander's attitude, chin, ability to fight on the inside and fight dirtier than Tyson without getting caught would have always had the upperhand in that match up....just my opinion though. Some people like to think Tyson was invincible but that peekaboo style has it's flaws, all another fighter needed to do was be brave enough to stick to the game plan Holyfield and Lewis were brave enough and smart enough to do it at pretty much any point in their careers.

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I completely agree with this post Lyle. I've always wondered how Bonecrusher would have got on had he tried to hit Tyson before the last minute and not just gone in to survive.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Pressure fighters do burn out quickly because of the punishment they take, but here's the thing, Tyson barely got hit when he was with the Catskill gang.

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It's not so much the punishment as it's just a hard style to keep up. All the bobbing and weaving and combination punching that requires a youthful exuberance to keep it up and be effective.

ross, I am a child of the 1980's you don't have to tell me how popular he was back then. All I know is that Cus D'Mato's system doesn't make for invincible fighters it has it's strengths and weaknesses just like any other training has. No one is saying Tyson isn't great, no one is saying Tyson wasn't a wonderful talent...I'm just being real about the guy and that style of fighting. Tyson's style was a bully style watch him in any clinch, his head is always down in close and his forearm is usually in the throat of the other fighter....and heavyweights back in the 1980's weren't near as big as they are now 218-230 was about the average weight no matter how tall they were

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Pressure fighters do burn out quickly because of the punishment they take, but here's the thing, Tyson barely got hit when he was with the Catskill gang.

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It's not so much the punishment as it's just a hard style to keep up. All the bobbing and weaving and combination punching that requires a youthful exuberance to keep it up and be effective.

ross, I am a child of the 1980's you don't have to tell me how popular he was back then. All I know is that Cus D'Mato's system doesn't make for invincible fighters it has it's strengths and weaknesses just like any other training has. No one is saying Tyson isn't great, no one is saying Tyson wasn't a wonderful talent...I'm just being real about the guy and that style of fighting. Tyson's style was a bully style watch him in any clinch, his head is always down in close and his forearm is usually in the throat of the other fighter....and heavyweights back in the 1980's weren't near as big as they are now 218-230 was about the average weight no matter how tall they were

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And that's because most of the heavyweights today are fatasses if youre talking about averages. Let's take a look at the guys he fought from the Berbick fight to Ruddock, until he got sent off to prison.

Berbick- 218
Smith- 233
Tucker-221
Thomas-217
Biggs-228
Holmes-225
Tubbs-238
Spinks-212
Bruno-228
Williams-218
Douglass-231
Tillman-215
Stewart-218
Ruddock I- 228
Ruddock II -238

It seems to me the guys Tyson fought starting with Berbick were in the averages of 220+. You make it sound like he was fighting guys under 200 pounds. And why are you comparing the HW's in the 80s to today? IS it because the Klit brothers are in this era and you're trying to make it sound like the Klit brothers are doing something impressive when trying to bring up the average weight of HW's today?

I'll say it here the 21 year old Tyson under Rooney blasts out Wladimir within 3 and stops Vitali on cuts within 6.