Just a straight up question guys, is Mosley too old to beat Floyd?
Heck, could a younger Mosley beat Floyd?
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Just a straight up question guys, is Mosley too old to beat Floyd?
Heck, could a younger Mosley beat Floyd?
It's a good question. 18 months is a bloody long time to be out of the ring and to do it and be coming back at 38. I don't know why Mosley did that TBH. He could have had 3 more fights in that time
He might be too old to do it, but I also thought the same thing about the Margarito fight. Then like now, I am hoping that he can pull something special out the bag, but really it's anyones guess where Mosley is at right now. Fingers crossed.
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by Themantonio
I don't think age has anything to do with it. Mayweather is a bad style matchup for Mosley in general/
he's at the botox clinic topping up.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Well, it depends if he beats him or not :D
At this point yes I think Mosley is too old for Mayweather. A younger, fresher Mosley I think takes Mayweather to school by simply landing way more combinations. Hell he would probably stop him back then. Now it is too little too late and Mayweather knows that. That's why he has taken this fight.
Mosley has some great ring smarts that will help him a lot against Floyd, he can adjust very well. That being said his age is likely going to catch up with him and be the difference.
Was Hopkins to old to beat Tito, De La Hoya and Pavlik?
After the performance against Margarito, Mosley showed that he is taking care of himself and is dedicated to the gym and studying his opponents. I guess he should be close to the end of his career, but my guess is that he should be in a good shape.
I've been watching a lot of MOsley lately and I honestly don't think he's slowed down very much. Maybe against bigger guys where he is trying to put more mustard on his punches he looks slower and doesn't throw combinations the same way(like against Vargas I or Mayorga), but you watch him against Collazo or Margario or Vargas II and he still looks almost the same speed as when he was in his prime.
The biggest problem IMO for Mosley is his style. I just don't think in his progression as a fighter he ever needed to develop a jab, and its so hard to beat movement or bigger guys without a jab and/or movement. Shane was way too strong and fast for anyone in the lightweight division and for almost anyone at WW, but we've seen him have problems with guys who box well on the outside and who nurf his offensive by being quick enough to react to his hooks coming in.
not for me
This will be a 12round chess match, had he of fought berto he would of up against a far younger and fitter guy who would of wanted to trade whenever possible.
Floyd wont do that, mosley is fast enough to deal with floyds counter left something that particularly bothered marquez last time out, the power will be with shane and i fully expect a very close tough encounter
By heart, anobody has the tales from the tape from both guy (excluding weight for the moment, of course) ? I am especially curious about the reach difference.
Mayweather is 5'8 has a 72" inch reach with 26" arms
Mosley is 5'9 has a 74" inch reach with 25" arms
I think it will depend on how much of a lost he gets from Floyd. If Mosley loses by a close decision, then he will still be "old". If he loses by domination, then he is "very old". If he gets knocked out after a domination, then he is "very, very old" and "has no business fighting with Mayweather."
But if Shane wins, they'll still say that he's "old" and that Floyd got beaten by an "old man".
Ok, so Basically Shane has a 2 inches advantage over Mayweather as for the reach... if he jabs damn well, I think he can pull it out, especially after the DLH-Mayweather fight where Oscar did cause him load of troubles while he used his jab... and left it down in the meantime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I'm not sure about Shane having a reach advantage I tend to look at arm length rather than wingspan for reach, it's more linear in relation to how far you can extend your arm. I also think oscars jab is far superior to mosley's, and that it only bothered mayweather for a couple of rounds and then he adjusted with counter right hands. The thing that really got tonfloyd qas consistent, calculated pressure, Oscar fought without making many mistakes and forced floyd's hand which he doesn't like when he is countering. I think using that same against pacquiao who is more offensive totally backfired on odlh.
Age will not be a factor but speed may be.
Mosley has not fought since January 24th 2009, inactivity and age will see him lose a rather lop sided decision against Floyd. Mosely is 39 in September! Nothing against Sugar Shane Mosley, i love the guy. I just think he will be well outboxed in this fight.
It aint just age, its a combination of things. Floyd pretty much beats Shane in every department.
Wow this isn't fair at all, people say they want Floyd to fight a real test, and now he is and he still isn't going to get any credit for it because in the end no matter who he fights he is suppose to win anyways. I mean he didn't fight in 17 months before facing Marquez and look how sharp he was. Mosley hasn't had a real fight in over a year, but he was just about to face Berto, and the sharpness regardless of being in a fight or not was attained in preparation for that fight. He for all intents and purposes got in fighting shape less than two months ago. For a young guy actually having that fight would mean something, but for a veteran who has been in so many big fights just getting that focus back, which he did, is what's important.
In terms who has the advantage, I see Mosley being bigger and much stronger than Mayweather, but also just as fast. I think Floyd obviously has advantages in skill and timing, but age won't be a factor because Shane will be in fantastic shape and he will be pushing the pace of the fight. If anything Floyd will be slowing down the pace of the fight.
It all depends really...I mean if we are leaving out the whole...Style wise debates and stuff then only talking age then No I don't think so...Yes in the lower divisions age takes a higher toll due to those divisions depending more on speed and the stamina...But again it depends a lot on the fighter themselves and the type of career they have had...
Mosley has not been a fighter who has taken an over abundance of abuse in his career.....
Style wise TBH it is a hard call, all depends on who can make the other fight their fight....Mosley is not looking to survive, he is not looking to be competitive he is looking to beat Floyd...Mosley has a great camp, Richardson is top notch and will have a gameplan going in Mosley will execute it.....IMO if Floyd looks to counter all night and lay back it will be the worst thing for him....Mosley is no Hatton, JMM and will not fall to abundance of punches, Mosley has been in the ring with far harder hitters then PBF......
It is a tough call for anyone to say either way who will win and for anyone to say either way one will dominate the other is sadly mistaken
I'm still not sure why Floyd is such a "matchup" problem for Mosley. The classic matchup nightmare for Shane has been fighters who live off the jab and control distance.
What exactly does Shane Mosley do well?
Mosley is a "mid-range" fighter. It's not the most conventional style. His head movement and defense aren't great, but he can use his feet to to his range and create good angles. If his opponent's jab can't dictate distance, he will live in the zone you don't want him. He's so strong that he can push off in-fighters to get off his shots, then step back catch them on the way in, push them off, punch, repeat. His feet are fast enough to step inside the power of a Mayorga or Margarito. They don't have the jab to keep him from doing it.
Mosley has a extremely fast hands, granite chin, a good workrate, good (not great) power in both hands. Although he doesn't have dominating jab, he has used it more effectively lately, especially to screen his movements in and out. Good counterpuncher, he throws is right effectively as a cross, an overhand, a short hook from different angles. He is at his best against brawlers and fairs well against slicksters. Boxer-punchers are nemesis.
What about Mayweather?
He eats conventional fighters for lunch. Are you a guy who wants to work off the jab. Good luck. His right counter is so fast you'll stop throwing it half way through the fight. He's a master of in fight adjustment. He's perfectly content to fight a tactical fight and win on the cards. He's great staying on the outside throwing potshots, and he's great rolling and countering on the inside.
What has been most successful against him - in the short term, a good jab or straight right, but over the long hall, strength, intelligent pressure, chin, volume, and awkwardness are more effective. You also need foot speed to catch him. ODLH got split decision against, albeit a bad SD, but that shows way to beat him. Oscar was at his best when he was throwing the jab, but he got countered so much he stopped throwing it. He roughed him up and threw volume.
Floyd has a very good jab, but I'm not it's the kind of strong, punishing jab that will keep Shane at the right distance. Shane's lack of commitment to the jab could work to his advantage because he won't be eating right counters over it all night. He has the foot movement to cut off the ring. He throws his right from different angles. He's the strongest guy Floyd has every faced.
Floyd may win, but it won't be because it's a bad matchup.
Mayweather doesn't have a snapping Larry Holmes type jab, but how he thrusts it out allows for him to get a lot of "push" behind his jab. Also most guys land their jab in glancing fashion where as Mayweather usually lands it square on his opponent which also makes it very hard for someone to move in on, especially when he jabs to the body. Its hard enough that you can't move forward though it.
You say the nightmare matchup for Mosley is a guy who lives off the jab and controls distance. That sounds like Mayweather to a tee when he isn't facing neanderthal opponents or guys so slow he can get away with anything against them. Watching Mayweather against Corrales, Castillo(especially the second fight), Oscar De La Hoya, and JMM you will see that he uses the jab a lot in these fights. You won't see it as much against Hatton because Mayweather was on his heels too much and he really likes to lunge in when he jabs which a less aggressive Mosley will allow him to do.
Somebody please tell Mosely not to dress like Apollo Creed again!
What a moron.
All these age things and etc didn't surface when everyone was picking Mosley to knock out Berto...
Shane at any age couldn't beat Floyd.
Styles make fights...and Shane, especially at this point of his career, does not have the right style to beat Floyd. To be have a chance against Floyd you have to possess a great jab...Shane doesn't have one. On the flip side, Floyd has a very good jab...and Shane doesn't like technical fighters who can keep him at a distance. A PRIME Mosley could have had a much better chance...because he was an awesome combo of speed and power. Sure, Shane is still in no slouch in the athleticism department...but he is not at this point of his career a slicker and faster fighter than Floyd. Floyd is great at adapting. I see this fight being exciting for the first few rounds...but by the middle...Floyd will have figured Shane out and win on points.
Shane wants this more.
Shane has the intensity to fight full 12 rounds.
Shane is a legitimate welterweight.
Shane has enough power to trouble Floyd.
Shane has enough experience to adjust to anything Floyd will try.
Shane will not be denied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Yes we will get right on it....Who here has Shanes number:mad:...Ruthless Rocco wants him to stop with these outfits of his
Mosley has better feet than all of those guys. Floyd can control distance against fighters who have average/conventional feet. I don't think Mayweather did a great job of controlling distance in the early rounds against Judah or Hatton. Hatton was getting in on him the whole fight, but Floyd was able take advantage of Hatton's aggression and poor defensive. Either way, Hatton is a conventional inside fighter and Judah is a conventional boxer-puncher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Shane has trouble right fighters with EXCEPTIONAL jabs. Floyd has a good jab. Yes, Cotto has an exceptional jab.
I don't know where people come up with the notion that a jab is the answer to Mayweather. Other than a few rounds from Oscar, the most trouble he has been given has been by a swarmer (Castillo), a southpaw (with a straight left, a more powerful punch and harder to time and counter cleanly with a cross), and an awkward fighter (Augustus).
To be clear again, I still pick Floyd to win. The more accurage statement this: Floyd is not an ideal matchup for Mosley, and Mosley has looked his best in the last few years againsts fighters who are very good matchups for him (Vargas, Mayorga). This casts doubts as to whether Shane can beat a great fighter when the style matchup does not clearly favor Shane. Shane has never faced anybody who presents the challenges of Mayweather, and he has lost to lesser fighters.
That being said, Mosley, unless he has gotten old in the last year, he offers a combination of challenges to Mayweather that he has yet to face. He has never fought somebody with the size, strength, speed, power, style, and mental toughness of Mosley. You can't even reference the JMM fight, because as great as JMM is, he is slow and stationary and makes his living counterpunching aggressive fighters. On top of that he's much smaller than Floyd.
Mayweather has fought two real WW's - Baldy and Oscar. Baldy has feet in cement. He was an idea matchup. Oscar gave him a close fight (but a clear win for Mayweather), but Oscar does to have Mosley's speed and he fights in a more conventional way.
But I don't think Berto is all that good either. Does anyone think Mayweather wouldn't box Berto's ears off?Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
It's a valid point that Mosely is old because he is very old for a top level fighter in the smaller weights, but whether Mosley gets old in this fight is another question.
I'm backing Mosley and hoping he can shock everyone, but to pretend he is 30 would be a bit silly. He isn't. Only Hopkins in recent memory has been fighting well at this kind of age, all the others such as Toney and Jones Jr have faded. Everyone must fade at some point. It's only natural and if he loses it will be cited as one of the reasons.
Berto is shit... Devon Alexander proved that last night ;)
I like Rozzy's & Teaths debate. I think Rozzy is seriously underrating Mayweather's jab.
It works pretty well when he jabs at the body of midgets:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Floyd has a different type of jab than Cotto, Winky, and Forrest. They all throw long jabs from a conventional high guard. That type of jab, in additon to controlling distance, swells the eyes, hides the right hand, and creates opportunities to hook of the jab.
Floyd's most effective jab is an up-jap and he targets it at the body. Throwing the jab from his low guard is different. He controls may opponents by using that body jab to keep them off. Taeth is right about that. Against some guys, he can stop them with that jab. I don't think it will have that effect on Mosley.His jab wasn't the deciding factor against Oscar. It didn't stop him in his tracks. He strafed Oscar with right crosses over Oscar's jab, rolled when he was on the ropes, and countered with clean hooks and uppercuts while Oscar flailed at his body. Oscar is the only decent fighter he's beaten who has comparable size and strength to Mosley. And Mosley is stronger.
He could do that against JMM, Judah, at points against Hatton. If he beats Mosley, it will be with the right hand, defense, and counterpunching. The jab won't be the deciding factor.
I still agree to disagree, Floyd fought Baldomir who was 162 pounds when they came into the ring which is bigger than Mosley is even at 154. Its the easiest punch to land on Mosley, and the second is the straight right, but I think the first few rounds Floyd will maintain and gage distance with his jab until he finds a home for his right hand. It sounds like Mosley is going to try and employ a similar strategy as to what Oscar did vs Floyd, but with a less dominant jab and more speed. I know Mosley was great at coming forwad as a welterweight, but I remember how hard of a time he had trying to be offensive against Oscar in their second fight, and Oscar doesn't move or box like Floyd does.
All in all I really hope Mayweather wins this and stays in the sport. He will have some good guys to further establish his legacy over the next few years. If Mike JOnes learns to be more authoritative with his jab, if Andre Berto turns that corner, and if Bradley and/or Alexander move up after dominating the 140pound division.
Devon Alexander is a truly special fighter with apparently all of the necessary attributes, and he actually reminds me a lot of a younger Floyd. Just different style.
The scary thing is apparently Devon had a brother who is now in Jail that was significantly better than him.
Mosley would be a fool to follow Oscar. Oscar kept a nice tight guard for 80% of the fight... I wouldn't be surprised if Floyd's accuracy level were at an all time low... He sure did seem to be hitting a lot of glove earlier in the fight.
Mosley wouldn't know the 1st thing about a tight guard.
Baldomir was bigger than Mosley, but Mosley is stronger. You can't judge anything from the Baldomir fight. Also, Oscar's tight, HIGH guard (like Winky, like Forrest, even Cottos) limits the effectiveness of Mosley's right hand. Against Cotto and Oscar, Mosley was forced to "hook with the hookers." Mayweather defends against the right hand primarily by rolling and slipping. That works great when you are much faster then the other guy and the right hands are coming from the same angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
When a conventional, high guard fighter jabs, he protects his chin by tucking it into his left shoulder and snaps his left hand back to protect against the right hand counter. If the jab is properly executed, can only be countered with superior speed with a right hand, anticipation and timing of the jab, or slipping and countering. Floyd was able to do this to Oscar because of his speed, timing, and accuracy. Mosley doesn't throw that pin-point, sniper right hand (like Floyd). Floyd had the perfect answer for Oscar's jab.
The up-jab, to the body from from a shell fighter like Mayweather presents opportunities for a fighter with a fast right hand or great jab. Here's the problem with that jab. If you use your jab to take advantage of the opening, Mayweather will counter your counter with a straight, powerful, and accurate right cross. A fighter can land the jab against Mayweather for a few rounds, but eventually, you get countered so much you stop throwing it.
So that leaves the straight right as plan 'B' once Mayweather times your jab and finds his range and starts counter you. Oscar has a decent right hand, but it's not his bread and butter. It has some pop if he lands, but it's pretty standard and predictable and it comes from only one angle. Mayweather could roll it off and counter.
Mosley has a different and stronger right. He can throw his right hand with power from a variety of angles. Mosley can counter the up-jab to the head or body with an overhand right to Floyd's left eye, a short direct straight, or an uppercut. . If you only throw a classic cross, it will be blocked with the shoulder, but a fast right from a higher angle can find a mark. Not a KO blow, but a mark. So will an uppercut. If you start to defend those, the short straight can land. Over the course of rounds, it will take it's toll.
Now the left hook comes into play. Normally, you can't hit Floyd with a a left hook to the head, and he can deflect the right hand with a shoulder roll. If he's getting hit in the left eye with right hands, he will need roll more to his right or start slipping to the left. Rolling more opens you up to a left hook. Slipping opens you up to a different spots, depending on where he shifts his guard.
Mosley is not a bad matchup for Mayweather, but he's more intereting and challenging. IMHO, these fighters are bad matchups for Floyd. Judah was a bad matchup on paper. Pacman is a bad matchup in reality. Historically his nightmares would be Benny Leonard, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Pernell Whitaker, and a prime Duran. Maybe a few others, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.
If Shane was still training with his father, I wouldn't give him much chance, but if anybody can devise a plan to beat Mayweather and convince Mosley to execute that plan, it's Naseem. Richardson will be able to give him a plan A, B, and C, and for most of Shane's career, he's only had plan A, his usual way of doing things.
Given Mosley's apparent reach advantage (which surprisingly is very rare against lil' Floyd) I'm hopeful that this is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySean
I just don't think it's that simple.
In my opinion Mosley can box till end of 12 rounds as pre ODLH 1 and 2 even with the late Forest with a decent K.O. From then on from Fernando Vargas till Margarito he's relying on his power thru knock outs.
Well i guess he didnt looked good in Mayorga, boxed by Cotto, could be the age definitely, and can forget Margo he aint definitely known as defensive fighter as well he's slow.
I would give Mosley up to 4-6 rnds with K.O. But Floyd is a different animal had a decent stamina till end. Floyd would box him through out the night.
I'm not saying it's simple. For Mosley to win, he'll need to more than just land some right hands and swell up Mayweathers eye, but I believe Mosley can land that punch, and it COULD create a some different offensive opportunities for Mosley.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboogieGiven Mosley's apparent reach advantage (which surprisingly is very rare against lil' Floyd) I'm hopeful that this is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySean
I just don't think it's that simple.
Here's an example. Nate Campbell has a great up-jab and he uses it much like Mayweather does. Against Diaz (slow of foot, not a great right hand, he controlled distance. Funeka was able to land the right on him, but Campbell could control distance with jabs to his skinny body, aka Floyd vs Chico. Against Bradley, quicker, stronger, better right hand, he wasn't able to control distance and he was frustrated.
It's not age it's skill. At any age shane has never had the skill set to beat floyd. This will be a boring fight. Shane has speed that is close to floyds other than that.....i said it before. Shane will paw paw paw with the jab throw quick hard wide shots and get countered and potshotted all night. Vernon beat shane, cotto beat shane, mayorga damn near did. If all these guys found a way floyd sure as shit will. Even collazo looked decent against the guy. I'll buy like everyone else...but with low expectations. Floyd by easy decision. How easy is the only question.