Manny Pacquiao Is Unbelievable.

A few years ago it would of been considered, a joke that Manny Pacquiao could dominate top Welterweights. And thats exactly what he's done i mean since the JMM fight, he's only lost like 1 round. Even though Manny Pacquiao did defeat two of my favorite fighters MAB, JMM.

Manny Pacquiao has really grown on me, since he become a more skillful boxer. I actually find him more exciting as the skillful boxer he is now. Rather than the all out slugger he was.

And im just glad im in this era to appreciate him first hand, sure SRR was amazing. But there's limited footage of him and he comes from a totally different era. Not to mention black/white fights, i find it hard to really get into black/white fights.

But now we have an amazing fighter to really appreciate first hand, who will be talked about forever and forever. And im going to enjoy every last little bit of it.

Yeah I love the Pacman, to me he's in the top 3 of all time now behind Robinson and Ali.

I don't know how the likes of Ray Leonard and Henry Armstrong can match up to what he has done.

He is beating the best opposition out there, in a weight division far above his natural, and he's destroying them in completely one sided fights.

If he does beat Floyd his resume would be crazy.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yeah I love the Pacman, to me he's in the top 3 of all time now behind Robinson and Ali.

I don't know how the likes of Ray Leonard and Henry Armstrong can match up to what he has done.

He is beating the best opposition out there, in a weight division far above his natural, and he's destroying them in completely one sided fights.

If he does beat Floyd his resume would be crazy.

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I agree Pacquiao is top, but with all the credentials he gets lately it makes me wonder..

what if Floyd beats Shane and then beats him? will Floyd's resume be crazy too? Or will it be Floyd picking on smaller fighters?

I just want your opinion on where you think they'll be ranked given if they beat each other, like you gave your opinion how Pacquiao will look if he beats Floyd. How will Floyd look if he beats Shane and Pacquiao?

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yeah I love the Pacman, to me he's in the top 3 of all time now behind Robinson and Ali.

I don't know how the likes of Ray Leonard and Henry Armstrong can match up to what he has done.

He is beating the best opposition out there, in a weight division far above his natural, and he's destroying them in completely one sided fights.

If he does beat Floyd his resume would be crazy.

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I agree Pacquiao is top, but with all the credentials he gets lately it makes me wonder..

what if Floyd beats Shane and then beats him? will Floyd's resume be crazy too? Or will it be Floyd picking on smaller fighters?

I just want your opinion on where you think they'll be ranked given if they beat each other, like you gave your opinion how Pacquiao will look if he beats Floyd. How will Floyd look if he beats Shane and Pacquiao?

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i guess that depends on what fashion he beats both in. if he beats mosley and pac on their style of fights then there will be no arguement. but if hes there one punch and move all night,then.. well i dont know how that would cement his legacy.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yeah I love the Pacman, to me he's in the top 3 of all time now behind Robinson and Ali.

I don't know how the likes of Ray Leonard and Henry Armstrong can match up to what he has done.

He is beating the best opposition out there, in a weight division far above his natural, and he's destroying them in completely one sided fights.

If he does beat Floyd his resume would be crazy.

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I can see Pac pass Ray Leonard's accomplishments but Henry Armstrong was the 126, 135, and 147 champion simultaneously. And this was before the alphabet soup. Armstrong also fought for the middleweight title to a draw. So in effect Armstrong was the best featherweight, the best lightweight, the best welterweight, and tied for the best middleweight at the same time. Armstrong was something never before or since seen and very much overlooked and undercredited when it comes to history.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yeah I love the Pacman, to me he's in the top 3 of all time now behind Robinson and Ali.

I don't know how the likes of Ray Leonard and Henry Armstrong can match up to what he has done.

He is beating the best opposition out there, in a weight division far above his natural, and he's destroying them in completely one sided fights.

If he does beat Floyd his resume would be crazy.

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I'm curious Bilbo, have you ever seen Hank Armstrong in action?

It works both ways, there are people who overrate the older fighters having never seen their fights, but I think when you start placing a fighter on an ATG list before their career is over you're usually wrong.

You need the perspective of them being retired & looking at their whole body of work. I do think Pacquiao would be Top 20 definitely if he retired right now, but it's hard to actually assess till he's finished. Case in point, all those people declaring Roy Jones the best fighter ever or Mike Tyson the best HW ever.

I do find it funny how many people hate on Pac or PBF & they'll be the same people complaining in 20 years at some new fighters about how they don't make 'em like they did back in the noughties.

What was Clottey doing for most of the fight he just stood there guard up waiting for the bell easy fight for Manny but he cant be called the best until he fights Floyd and he would'nt stand a chance no wonder he thought of every excuse going in order for it not to go ahead

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Originally Posted by gstarsgstarry

What was Clottey doing for most of the fight he just stood there guard up waiting for the bell easy fight for Manny but he cant be called the best until he fights Floyd and he would'nt stand a chance no wonder he thought of every excuse going in order for it not to go ahead

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Pac has a great chance v Mayweather, I think he can win it.

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Originally Posted by gstarsgstarry

What was Clottey doing for most of the fight he just stood there guard up waiting for the bell easy fight for Manny but he cant be called the best until he fights Floyd and he would'nt stand a chance no wonder he thought of every excuse going in order for it not to go ahead

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A little bit of an exaggeration here isn't it? Although I would slightly favor Floyd because of his slick defensive abilities and adaptation skills, I don't know about the "he wouldn't stand a chance" statement in regards to Pacquiao. Maybe an Matthew Hatton wouldn't stand a chance, but really to make that kind of statement for a fighter that is 1 of the best p4p is funny.

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Originally Posted by gstarsgstarry

What was Clottey doing for most of the fight he just stood there guard up waiting for the bell easy fight for Manny but he cant be called the best until he fights Floyd and he would'nt stand a chance no wonder he thought of every excuse going in order for it not to go ahead

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Joshua Clottey pretty much always fights that way, too me as i've always said. He has the tools to be an elite fighter, but he lacks vital things.

Like being able to go through the gears, and knowing when to turn it up. Which is what cost him in 2 of his losses, and also being able to concentrate for the full 12 rounds. Which he clearly can't do, he seems to shut off and go into a defensive shell.

I personally think when he threw, he looked ok vs Manny Pacquiao. But then again it was one punch at a time. And you certainly can't beat someone like Manny Pacquiao that way, who's an offensive machine.

To me Clottey fought to survive and not to win. If he would have let his hand go he could have done some damage but he looked too afraid to get hit. When he did throw he did damage. Haven't seen Pac's face busted up like that in awhile and this was by someone who only threw like 20 punches per round. You get someone who can take advantage of Pac's over-aggression with speed and accurate counter-punching like Floyd, Pac's gonna have a long night.

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Originally Posted by Caine3078

To me Clottey fought to survive and not to win. If he would have let his hand go he could have done some damage but he looked too afraid to get hit. When he did throw he did damage. Haven't seen Pac's face busted up like that in awhile and this was by someone who only threw like 20 punches per round. You get someone who can take advantage of Pac's over-aggression with speed and accurate counter-punching like Floyd, Pac's gonna have a long night.

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Good post and completely agree. Although it wasn't much I did take some things from the Clottey performance. Clottey had good defense, Floyd's is better and Clottey was able to block a lot of what Pac was throwing, but Clottey didn't do shit. When Clottey did let his hands go, he did inflict some damage and snapped Pac's head back on multiple occasions, it was just few and far between.

I think Floyd is going to have his way with Pac. I do think Floyd will be knocked down "officially" for the first time in his career though. Hatton almost had him on his ass due to being off balanced, I think Pac will catch him and make him fall. Nothing he won't recover from though. After that Pac will be in a vacation from hell at Lead Right City.

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Originally Posted by markb018

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Originally Posted by Caine3078

To me Clottey fought to survive and not to win. If he would have let his hand go he could have done some damage but he looked too afraid to get hit. When he did throw he did damage. Haven't seen Pac's face busted up like that in awhile and this was by someone who only threw like 20 punches per round. You get someone who can take advantage of Pac's over-aggression with speed and accurate counter-punching like Floyd, Pac's gonna have a long night.

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Good post and completely agree. Although it wasn't much I did take some things from the Clottey performance. Clottey had good defense, Floyd's is better and Clottey was able to block a lot of what Pac was throwing, but Clottey didn't do shit. When Clottey did let his hands go, he did inflict some damage and snapped Pac's head back on multiple occasions, it was just few and far between.

I think Floyd is going to have his way with Pac. I do think Floyd will be knocked down "officially" for the first time in his career though. Hatton almost had him on his ass due to being off balanced, I think Pac will catch him and make him fall. Nothing he won't recover from though. After that Pac will be in a vacation from hell at Lead Right City.

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I was thinking the same during the fight. After seeing the hits clottey was landing and the damage occuring i knew it would have been a up hill battle against floyd for pac.
Clottey landed a few nice lead rights, uppercuts in the last few round really shot pacs head back

pac easily gets hit but when was the last time he went down? sure if clot threw more punches he can put some damage on pac but can he knock him out? pac actually has a good chin too.

clot didnt got hit as often as pac wanted cause clot was too busy covering himself up. pbf wont do that he will throw more punches. so pac will have more opportunity to hit pbf.

but to be honest i still think pbf will win over pac. i wish pac beats the hell out of pbf but pbf is just too good.

I now believe Manny can beat PBF. Floyd isn't super human after all. Zab Judah gave him all kinds of trouble early, and should have been 4 rounds up with a knockdown to boot in their fight after 4 rounds. Oscar came very close to beating him, just fading down the stretch because he was gun shy. Castillo did beat him in their first fight imo.

Even Ricky Hatton was awkward for him early on despite losing the rounds.

When you compare and contrast Floyd's performances in the last 3 or 4 years to Manny's I don't think Floyd looks as good.

I think Manny's workrate and pressure could be too much. It will be a very close fight, a 12 round decision but I can see Manny finally dethroning Floyd by a split decision and us having a rematch in 2011.

It would be hard to argue with another boxing fan who's opinion was that PACMAN was the best fighter of all time.
His rise from Flyweight up to dominate a really big strong WW is amazing , he gives it all , works tirelessly , is just a pleasure to watch him box.

Who knows if PBF beats Manny or vice versa, the only thing that's clearly evident is that Manny Pacquiao has dominated elite level fighters in a way that has not been seen in a generation. In fights were he has been matched against bigger men he has pressed the action and always fought forcing the action, clearly not looking to just outpoint his competition. Whether you're Manny fan or not you have to appreciate what he brings to the table, he is truly a special fighter. As far a legacy goes I believe him to be an ATG, not necessarily the "All Time Greatest" but certainly an "All Time Great", imo...

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yeah I love the Pacman, to me he's in the top 3 of all time now behind Robinson and Ali.

I don't know how the likes of Ray Leonard and Henry Armstrong can match up to what he has done.

He is beating the best opposition out there, in a weight division far above his natural, and he's destroying them in completely one sided fights.

If he does beat Floyd his resume would be crazy.

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I agree Pacquiao is top, but with all the credentials he gets lately it makes me wonder..

what if Floyd beats Shane and then beats him? will Floyd's resume be crazy too? Or will it be Floyd picking on smaller fighters?

I just want your opinion on where you think they'll be ranked given if they beat each other, like you gave your opinion how Pacquiao will look if he beats Floyd. How will Floyd look if he beats Shane and Pacquiao?

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It would be hard to say Floyd is picking on smaller fighters because Manny has been in with the bigger guys and look what he has done.....I mean Clottey yes is slow but he is a big strong ww who has a great chin and good punching power who has never up until Sat been in a one sided bout...

Now if Manny had never been above LW and Floyd fought him as a WW then it would be a bit unfair because Manny would be in with a guy who is used to big men..

If that makes sense

If Floyd beats Manny I dont think he will receive as much credit for two reasons:

1 - Floyd has tarnished his legacy already by not fighting the best or who the fans/writers think are the best fighters at a given weight class. I dont know how many times I have read articles or heard on forums that Floyd is afraid to fight Mosley (at lower weights), margarito, cotto etc. You have never heard about Pac being afraid to fight anyone. I mean the guy fought JMM, Morales, and Barerra it seemed one after another......

2 - Pacquaio doesnt have a careful style, he is a brawler. He wants to mix it up. Floyd is very careful at times and can stink the joint out. If Floyd has someone hurt he will sometimes back off to play it safe, manny wont. Fans love pac's style and he gets extra credit for this.

Whether these points are true or not is irrelevant, but they are the reason Floyd doesnt get the respect he thinks he deserves.

Off the top of my head I can think of at least 10 fighters, in divisions Pac has fought, that were MUCH better: I have limited this list to just fighters I have seen live or on tape which eliminates older all time greats such as Leonard, Greb, Gans, Walker, Ross, Attell,etc. and any fighter middleweight or above. There are also others like Arguello, Whitaker, Chavez, Ortiz who I feel were better, but don't rank as high as these 10.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Aaron Pryor
Sugar Ray Leonard
Thomas Hearns
Roberto Duran
Joe Brown
Sandy Saddler
Willie Pep
Henry Armstrong
Eder Jofre



Let's not forget that all of those who say that Floyd has ducked some tough fighters, Manny has ducked a few also like:Shane, Cassamayor, Campbell and Guzman.

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Originally Posted by djcione

Off the top of my head I can think of at least 10 fighters, in divisions Pac has fought, that were MUCH better: I have limited this list to just fighters I have seen live or on tape which eliminates older all time greats such as Leonard, Greb, Gans, Walker, Ross, Attell,etc. and any fighter middleweight or above. There are also others like Arguello, Whitaker, Chavez, Ortiz who I feel were better, but don't rank as high as these 10.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Aaron Pryor
Sugar Ray Leonard
Thomas Hearns
Roberto Duran
Joe Brown
Sandy Saddler
Willie Pep
Henry Armstrong
Eder Jofre



Let's not forget that all of those who say that Floyd has ducked some tough fighters, Manny has ducked a few also like:Shane, Cassamayor, Campbell and Guzman.

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Much better head to head in your opinion? or Much better achievement?

Cause I cant imagine Aaron Pryor having a better career than Pacquiao.

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Originally Posted by Hunter

If Floyd beats Manny I dont think he will receive as much credit for two reasons:

1 - Floyd has tarnished his legacy already by not fighting the best or who the fans/writers think are the best fighters at a given weight class. I dont know how many times I have read articles or heard on forums that Floyd is afraid to fight Mosley (at lower weights), margarito, cotto etc. You have never heard about Pac being afraid to fight anyone. I mean the guy fought JMM, Morales, and Barerra it seemed one after another......

2 - Pacquaio doesnt have a careful style, he is a brawler. He wants to mix it up. Floyd is very careful at times and can stink the joint out. If Floyd has someone hurt he will sometimes back off to play it safe, manny wont. Fans love pac's style and he gets extra credit for this.

Whether these points are true or not is irrelevant, but they are the reason Floyd doesnt get the respect he thinks he deserves.

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I don't know where you read an article saying Floyd was afraid of fighting Mosley at lower weights. Floyd was the first to try to get a fight with Mosley in 2003 I believe and Mosley declined the fight. I don't know if Shane was afraid of Floyd or just didn't want the fight.

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by djcione

Off the top of my head I can think of at least 10 fighters, in divisions Pac has fought, that were MUCH better: I have limited this list to just fighters I have seen live or on tape which eliminates older all time greats such as Leonard, Greb, Gans, Walker, Ross, Attell,etc. and any fighter middleweight or above. There are also others like Arguello, Whitaker, Chavez, Ortiz who I feel were better, but don't rank as high as these 10.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Aaron Pryor
Sugar Ray Leonard
Thomas Hearns
Roberto Duran
Joe Brown
Sandy Saddler
Willie Pep
Henry Armstrong
Eder Jofre



Let's not forget that all of those who say that Floyd has ducked some tough fighters, Manny has ducked a few also like:Shane, Cassamayor, Campbell and Guzman.

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Much better head to head in your opinion? or Much better achievement?

Cause I cant imagine Aaron Pryor having a better career than Pacquiao.

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much better head to head

OK lets see:

ODH, old and weight drained.

Hatton, already KO'd by Floyd.

Cotto, beat to death over a long fight with Margarito. What was left of Cotto was no match for Pacquiao. Impressive win a year ago? Yes. Impressive win after Margarito? No.

Clotto, lost to Cotto.

What more needs to be said? Pac is nothing until he beats Floyd.

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Originally Posted by RossCA

OK lets see:

ODH, old and weight drained.

Hatton, already KO'd by Floyd.

Cotto, beat to death over a long fight with Margarito. What was left of Cotto was no match for Pacquiao. Impressive win a year ago? Yes. Impressive win after Margarito? No.

Clotto, lost to Cotto.

What more needs to be said? Pac is nothing until he beats Floyd.

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First of all, welcome to the forum.

Secondly, you waited almost two years from when you joined to make this post?

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Originally Posted by RossCA

OK lets see:

ODH, old and weight drained.

Hatton, already KO'd by Floyd.

Cotto, beat to death over a long fight with Margarito. What was left of Cotto was no match for Pacquiao. Impressive win a year ago? Yes. Impressive win after Margarito? No.

Clotto, lost to Cotto.

What more needs to be said? Pac is nothing until he beats Floyd.

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LOL


That's the oldest template in the book. That is applicable to ALL Fighters.


FLoyd -

Castillo - Lost the 1st fight

Corrales - Mentally not prepared. He needed more time to recover from his bout againts his wife.

Baldomir - A fuckin Journeyman. Gor Lucky with Judah

Judah - A 4 round fighter

Hatton - Looks average againts Collaso. Fight should have been @140

Yaddi Yaddi


Mosley -

Dela Hoya - lost the 2nd fight

Mayorga - Looks mediocre before the left hook, Mayorga wa shot

Vargas - Vargas was shot to pieced before this fight took place

Yaddi Yaddi


Hopkins

DLH - Too Small

Trinidad - A Welterweight

Winky - Winky should have won

Yaddi Yaddi


etc etc etc

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by RossCA

OK lets see:

ODH, old and weight drained.

Hatton, already KO'd by Floyd.

Cotto, beat to death over a long fight with Margarito. What was left of Cotto was no match for Pacquiao. Impressive win a year ago? Yes. Impressive win after Margarito? No.

Clotto, lost to Cotto.

What more needs to be said? Pac is nothing until he beats Floyd.

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First of all, welcome to the forum.

Secondly, you waited almost two years from when you joined to make this post?

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I didnt realize that that was his 1st post. lol

Unbelievable. I see the same old yells of 'PACMAN'S' greatness are still audible around here.

With a mediocre recent showing and questionable methods, I'd wait before pinning him as an ATG. the only thing that Aaron Pryor and Pacquiao's careers have in common at this point in time is the amount of scrutiny they've recieved over the possibility of utilizing illegal substances.

That being said though, I highly doubt Pryor would've declined a fight with Arguello over a couple blood-tests aimed at fair-play... then go into his next fight and throw more punches than some pressure-fighters... landing at a minuscule percentage (while spin-doctors/commentators billow on about how 'great' he is).

I realize I'll get flamed for this so while I'm at it I'll also mention that I give him no credit for the Cotto win either. I believe a win over Cotto two years earlier and 2lbs heavier, with his old team, prior to the Margarito fight would've been impressive. The recent showing was just a ploy to squeeze the last of the juice from Cotto's following. God, for Cotto's sake I hope Pac isn't a juicer. Margacheato (...most probably...) cheated the guy into early retirement, Pac stomped out what was left. Big whoop.

Go ahead and say I'll never appreciate Pac's "greatness". The fact is, he doesn't even have to beat Mayweather for me to call him great; he just has to be honest. If he would've just agreed to the tests in December/January, we'd know he's not a sham... I don't know that I'd be his biggest fan (biggest Pactard?), but I would definitely be a supporter - although regardless, I'd bite my tongue before EVER mentioning his name in the same breath as Robinson or Ali (most definitely not under current circumstances).

Regardless of what naysayers would think about PAC. PAC was able to manage to be involved in a fight which is regarded as the 3rd most attended fight in the US for the past 50 yrs. I'd say most of these people are PACFANS:)

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

Regardless of what naysayers would think about PAC. PAC was able to manage to be involved in a fight which is regarded as the 3rd most attended fight in the US for the past 50 yrs. I'd say most of these people are PACFANS:)

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Yea i have to say your boy has really made me a fan, as i said i actually disliked him at first. Because he beat two of my favorite fighters, but now i realize there's no shame in that considering how great Manny Pacquiao is. What he's done is unbelievable he's like the modern day version of Henry Armstrong.

Manny Pacquiao proves his worth against Joshua Clottey - ESPN

Pacquiao proves worth against Clottey


It was the third-largest indoor attendance in U.S. boxing history, beaten only by the 63,350 who attended the 1979 heavyweight title rematch between Ali and Leon Spinks at the New Orleans Superdome and the 59,995 who attended the 1993 welterweight championship fight between Pernell Whitaker and Julio Cesar Chavez at at the Alamodome in San Antonio.

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

Regardless of what naysayers would think about PAC. PAC was able to manage to be involved in a fight which is regarded as the 3rd most attended fight in the US for the past 50 yrs. I'd say most of these people are PACFANS:)

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I'd say it's about time Filipinos supported their fighters in the US. For years, fighters like Luisito Espinoza, Gerry Penalosa, Jose Salud couldn't get the attention of their fellow kababayans to go see them fight. Promoters wondered where were the Filipino fans ?

Then there were the fighters who came over from Pinoyland who were thrown to the wolves and mismatched against bigger and more experienced fighters, mostly Mexican, and were never heard from again. Some were flown in from the Philippines the day before a fight !

After years of angst and frustration for Filipino boxing fans, Manny finally brought them out, even though it looked like he might be yet another piece of meat until he was able to get new management and be given a chance that no other Filipino boxer ever seemed to get in the USA.

Pacmania is ok, if one understands the history, but the enthusiasm needs to channeled to the new group of fighters with support from their fans to insure that they aren't victimized by the promoters and managers who sell them out for a cheap buck.

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Originally Posted by djcione

Off the top of my head I can think of at least 10 fighters, in divisions Pac has fought, that were MUCH better: I have limited this list to just fighters I have seen live or on tape which eliminates older all time greats such as Leonard, Greb, Gans, Walker, Ross, Attell,etc. and any fighter middleweight or above. There are also others like Arguello, Whitaker, Chavez, Ortiz who I feel were better, but don't rank as high as these 10.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Aaron Pryor
Sugar Ray Leonard
Thomas Hearns
Roberto Duran
Joe Brown
Sandy Saddler
Willie Pep
Henry Armstrong
Eder Jofre



Let's not forget that all of those who say that Floyd has ducked some tough fighters, Manny has ducked a few also like:Shane, Cassamayor, Campbell and Guzman.

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I would favour Pacquiao to have beaten Pryor and he is a greater fighter no doubt.

However, any judgements on Pacquaio's career should be delayed till his career is over. He's doing amazing things right now, but an assessment needs to be made only after his career is definitively over.

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Originally Posted by TheBranMan

Unbelievable. I see the same old yells of 'PACMAN'S' greatness are still audible around here.

With a mediocre recent showing and questionable methods, I'd wait before pinning him as an ATG. the only thing that Aaron Pryor and Pacquiao's careers have in common at this point in time is the amount of scrutiny they've recieved over the possibility of utilizing illegal substances.

That being said though, I highly doubt Pryor would've declined a fight with Arguello over a couple blood-tests aimed at fair-play... then go into his next fight and throw more punches than some pressure-fighters... landing at a minuscule percentage (while spin-doctors/commentators billow on about how 'great' he is).

I realize I'll get flamed for this so while I'm at it I'll also mention that I give him no credit for the Cotto win either. I believe a win over Cotto two years earlier and 2lbs heavier, with his old team, prior to the Margarito fight would've been impressive. The recent showing was just a ploy to squeeze the last of the juice from Cotto's following. God, for Cotto's sake I hope Pac isn't a juicer. Margacheato (...most probably...) cheated the guy into early retirement, Pac stomped out what was left. Big whoop.

Go ahead and say I'll never appreciate Pac's "greatness". The fact is, he doesn't even have to beat Mayweather for me to call him great; he just has to be honest. If he would've just agreed to the tests in December/January, we'd know he's not a sham... I don't know that I'd be his biggest fan (biggest Pactard?), but I would definitely be a supporter - although regardless, I'd bite my tongue before EVER mentioning his name in the same breath as Robinson or Ali (most definitely not under current circumstances).

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Are you serious about what you just posted...Seriously mate look it over a few times and think about it....You say yourself you are not a lover of Pacquiao (And last time I checked you need not be a fan of a fighter to give proper due) so anything he does do well you are not giving him credit for....

You can't give credit for the Cotto win why?...Because Cotto lost to Margarito?...Some how long before him and Manny fought?......Funny thing is people swore Cotto would break Manny down....BUT I guess that is different because the old..... "well we found out how far he was really gone in that fight"...phrase can be issued....WHAT CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES?....He told Floyd to F*** himself for not taking the blood test?...I mean seriously now....There have been ZERO test before or after a fight to show Manny has been on even asprin......PBF is the ONLY one to ever make these assumptions......

I mean that take an out of the world outrageous scenario of something that could be seen on a show like Jersey Shore..

Your/Anyones womans ex boyfriend from 3 years ago and pops up saying you have a small wanker so that is why he came around to give your woman the love she needs...To prove him wrong you gonna pull out your wanker?....OR can you care less because you know she is with you and loves you and is not going to cheat on you etc especially for this clown....BUT just to prove to him and those around him you pull it out...Regardless of the fact there is nothing to prove because the woman is where she wants to be and there is no chance of her leaving for a jerk....I don't think it would happen...(I hope not anyhow)

Well then why should Manny give Blood to a guy who walked away from the sport only to come back for a chance to make a big buck for himself real quick?...You think Floyd came back because he felt the sport really needed him? OR could the money trouble be a little more realistic?......I know if I was the hottest fighter in the world and could have any fight I wanted I will be DAMNED!!!!!...If I will just succumb to what some guy who USED to be number one wants...He needs me I don't need him.....You ever walk into a McDonalds and see the assistant manager telling the manager how to cook fries?.Then why should the #1 fighter in the world do what someone else tells him?

Anyone think MAYBE Floyd has seen what happened to DLH, Hatton, Cotto etc and said to himself....."This Mother F***** is walking through these dudes that I could not....Before I fight him I need to make sure this dude is for real".....I promise it is not for the good of the sport because Floyd never hade any worries about a CLEAN sport before....Wasn't worried if Marquez was CLEAN was he?......Had to request Shane be tested or he would look like a fool...

Thats not to say Floyd is scared ducking or any of that nonsense just that maybe he does not believe what he is seeing could be true...He has a HUGE ego and does not like to admit there could be a chance boxing has flourished and someone else has taken his throne since he willingly vacated it...Does he want proof for himself? Maybe...I mean hell every traveling salesman who stays at second rate motels would love to know the $50 hooker he gets for the night is disease free and his wife won't find out but she is not giving guarentees for his satisfaction....Floyd didn't get his either...

To say you will never give a man any credit because he refused a test
ORDERED hell not even asked but ORDERED by Floyd.....I wouldn't hail him or anyone else a cab if they ORDERED me to.......I don't care if they said they would take the cab with me and pay......

If I knew this was logical reasoning before this I would have used it long ago....That has the same reasoning as 1700 pilgrim laws...

Hans- Rebecca is a witch

Rebecca- No I am not

Hans- Prove it by letting us burn you

Rebecca- NO

Hans- See told you she was a witch...Burn her

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djcione

Off the top of my head I can think of at least 10 fighters, in divisions Pac has fought, that were MUCH better: I have limited this list to just fighters I have seen live or on tape which eliminates older all time greats such as Leonard, Greb, Gans, Walker, Ross, Attell,etc. and any fighter middleweight or above. There are also others like Arguello, Whitaker, Chavez, Ortiz who I feel were better, but don't rank as high as these 10.

Sugar Ray Robinson
Aaron Pryor
Sugar Ray Leonard
Thomas Hearns
Roberto Duran
Joe Brown
Sandy Saddler
Willie Pep
Henry Armstrong
Eder Jofre



Let's not forget that all of those who say that Floyd has ducked some tough fighters, Manny has ducked a few also like:Shane, Cassamayor, Campbell and Guzman.

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I would favour Pacquiao to have beaten Pryor and he is a greater fighter no doubt.

However, any judgements on Pacquaio's career should be delayed till his career is over. He's doing amazing things right now, but an assessment needs to be made only after his career is definitively over.

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Whilst in theory I agree with you Jaz to do so makes forums such as this redundant, the whole point of a forum is to stimulate discussion about our favourite subjects and whether it's correct from a long term historic perspective has no relevance.

What matters is people bantering with each other, and me knowing that my views are the right views. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBranMan

Unbelievable. I see the same old yells of 'PACMAN'S' greatness are still audible around here.

With a mediocre recent showing and questionable methods, I'd wait before pinning him as an ATG. the only thing that Aaron Pryor and Pacquiao's careers have in common at this point in time is the amount of scrutiny they've recieved over the possibility of utilizing illegal substances.

That being said though, I highly doubt Pryor would've declined a fight with Arguello over a couple blood-tests aimed at fair-play... then go into his next fight and throw more punches than some pressure-fighters... landing at a minuscule percentage (while spin-doctors/commentators billow on about how 'great' he is).

I realize I'll get flamed for this so while I'm at it I'll also mention that I give him no credit for the Cotto win either. I believe a win over Cotto two years earlier and 2lbs heavier, with his old team, prior to the Margarito fight would've been impressive. The recent showing was just a ploy to squeeze the last of the juice from Cotto's following. God, for Cotto's sake I hope Pac isn't a juicer. Margacheato (...most probably...) cheated the guy into early retirement, Pac stomped out what was left. Big whoop.

Go ahead and say I'll never appreciate Pac's "greatness". The fact is, he doesn't even have to beat Mayweather for me to call him great; he just has to be honest. If he would've just agreed to the tests in December/January, we'd know he's not a sham... I don't know that I'd be his biggest fan (biggest Pactard?), but I would definitely be a supporter - although regardless, I'd bite my tongue before EVER mentioning his name in the same breath as Robinson or Ali (most definitely not under current circumstances).

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Are you serious about what you just posted...Seriously mate look it over a few times and think about it....You say yourself you are not a lover of Pacquiao (And last time I checked you need not be a fan of a fighter to give proper due) so anything he does do well you are not giving him credit for....

You can't give credit for the Cotto win why?...Because Cotto lost to Margarito?...Some how long before him and Manny fought?......Funny thing is people swore Cotto would break Manny down....BUT I guess that is different because the old..... "well we found out how far he was really gone in that fight"...phrase can be issued....WHAT CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES?....He told Floyd to F*** himself for not taking the blood test?...I mean seriously now....There have been ZERO test before or after a fight to show Manny has been on even asprin......PBF is the ONLY one to ever make these assumptions......

I mean that take an out of the world outrageous scenario of something that could be seen on a show like Jersey Shore..

Your/Anyones womans ex boyfriend from 3 years ago and pops up saying you have a small wanker so that is why he came around to give your woman the love she needs...To prove him wrong you gonna pull out your wanker?....OR can you care less because you know she is with you and loves you and is not going to cheat on you etc especially for this clown....BUT just to prove to him and those around him you pull it out...Regardless of the fact there is nothing to prove because the woman is where she wants to be and there is no chance of her leaving for a jerk....I don't think it would happen...(I hope not anyhow)

Well then why should Manny give Blood to a guy who walked away from the sport only to come back for a chance to make a big buck for himself real quick?...You think Floyd came back because he felt the sport really needed him? OR could the money trouble be a little more realistic?......I know if I was the hottest fighter in the world and could have any fight I wanted I will be DAMNED!!!!!...If I will just succumb to what some guy who USED to be number one wants...He needs me I don't need him.....You ever walk into a McDonalds and see the assistant manager telling the manager how to cook fries?.Then why should the #1 fighter in the world do what someone else tells him?

Anyone thing MAYBE Floyd has seen what happened to DLH, Hatton, Cotto etc and said to himself....."This Mother F***** is walking through these dudes that I could not....Before I fight him I need to make sure this dude is for real".....I promise it is not for the good of the sport because Floyd never hade any worries about a CLEAN sport before....Wasn't worried if Marquez was CLEAN was he?......Had to request Shane be tested or he would look like a fool...

To say you will never give a man any credit because he refused a test
ORDERED hell not even asked but ORDERED by Floyd.....I wouldn't hail him or anyone else a cab if they ORDERED me to.......I don't care if they said they would take the cab with me and pay......

If I knew this was logical reasoning before this I would have used it long ago....That has the same reasoning as 1700 pilgrim laws...

Hans- Rebecca is a witch

Rebecca- No I am not

Hans- Prove it by letting us burn you

Rebecca- NO

Hans- See told you she was a witch...Burn her

---

Seem like a witch hunt of yore, aint it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBranMan

Unbelievable. I see the same old yells of 'PACMAN'S' greatness are still audible around here.

With a mediocre recent showing and questionable methods, I'd wait before pinning him as an ATG. the only thing that Aaron Pryor and Pacquiao's careers have in common at this point in time is the amount of scrutiny they've recieved over the possibility of utilizing illegal substances.

That being said though, I highly doubt Pryor would've declined a fight with Arguello over a couple blood-tests aimed at fair-play... then go into his next fight and throw more punches than some pressure-fighters... landing at a minuscule percentage (while spin-doctors/commentators billow on about how 'great' he is).

I realize I'll get flamed for this so while I'm at it I'll also mention that I give him no credit for the Cotto win either. I believe a win over Cotto two years earlier and 2lbs heavier, with his old team, prior to the Margarito fight would've been impressive. The recent showing was just a ploy to squeeze the last of the juice from Cotto's following. God, for Cotto's sake I hope Pac isn't a juicer. Margacheato (...most probably...) cheated the guy into early retirement, Pac stomped out what was left. Big whoop.

Go ahead and say I'll never appreciate Pac's "greatness". The fact is, he doesn't even have to beat Mayweather for me to call him great; he just has to be honest. If he would've just agreed to the tests in December/January, we'd know he's not a sham... I don't know that I'd be his biggest fan (biggest Pactard?), but I would definitely be a supporter - although regardless, I'd bite my tongue before EVER mentioning his name in the same breath as Robinson or Ali (most definitely not under current circumstances).

---

Are you serious about what you just posted...Seriously mate look it over a few times and think about it....You say yourself you are not a lover of Pacquiao (And last time I checked you need not be a fan of a fighter to give proper due) so anything he does do well you are not giving him credit for....

You can't give credit for the Cotto win why?...Because Cotto lost to Margarito?...Some how long before him and Manny fought?......Funny thing is people swore Cotto would break Manny down....BUT I guess that is different because the old..... "well we found out how far he was really gone in that fight"...phrase can be issued....WHAT CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES?....He told Floyd to F*** himself for not taking the blood test?...I mean seriously now....There have been ZERO test before or after a fight to show Manny has been on even asprin......PBF is the ONLY one to ever make these assumptions......

I mean that take an out of the world outrageous scenario of something that could be seen on a show like Jersey Shore..

Your/Anyones womans ex boyfriend from 3 years ago and pops up saying you have a small wanker so that is why he came around to give your woman the love she needs...To prove him wrong you gonna pull out your wanker?....OR can you care less because you know she is with you and loves you and is not going to cheat on you etc especially for this clown....BUT just to prove to him and those around him you pull it out...Regardless of the fact there is nothing to prove because the woman is where she wants to be and there is no chance of her leaving for a jerk....I don't think it would happen...(I hope not anyhow)

Well then why should Manny give Blood to a guy who walked away from the sport only to come back for a chance to make a big buck for himself real quick?...You think Floyd came back because he felt the sport really needed him? OR could the money trouble be a little more realistic?......I know if I was the hottest fighter in the world and could have any fight I wanted I will be DAMNED!!!!!...If I will just succumb to what some guy who USED to be number one wants...He needs me I don't need him.....You ever walk into a McDonalds and see the assistant manager telling the manager how to cook fries?.Then why should the #1 fighter in the world do what someone else tells him?

Anyone thing MAYBE Floyd has seen what happened to DLH, Hatton, Cotto etc and said to himself....."This Mother F***** is walking through these dudes that I could not....Before I fight him I need to make sure this dude is for real".....I promise it is not for the good of the sport because Floyd never hade any worries about a CLEAN sport before....Wasn't worried if Marquez was CLEAN was he?......Had to request Shane be tested or he would look like a fool...

To say you will never give a man any credit because he refused a test
ORDERED hell not even asked but ORDERED by Floyd.....I wouldn't hail him or anyone else a cab if they ORDERED me to.......I don't care if they said they would take the cab with me and pay......

If I knew this was logical reasoning before this I would have used it long ago....That has the same reasoning as 1700 pilgrim laws...

Hans- Rebecca is a witch

Rebecca- No I am not

Hans- Prove it by letting us burn you

Rebecca- NO

Hans- See told you she was a witch...Burn her

---

Seem like a witch hunt of yore, aint it?

---

Pretty much....The scenario is just as stupid as the reasoning for not giving credit for something unfounded and not even shown suspicion for...

I don't think Rebecca was casting spells turning people into frogs until old Hans finally said she is a witch...

On a real note I actually watched some show on the history channel that said it was easy as that to get someone killed back then....

Your a witch

No im Not

Only witches deny being witches...Hang the bitch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Hans- Rebecca is a witch

Rebecca- No I am not

Hans- Prove it by letting us burn you

Rebecca- NO

Hans- See told you she was a witch...Burn her

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This is so apt to the Floyd/Pac is on PEDS debacle, summed up perfectly Daxx.

Saying Floyd 'ordered' him is a bit fetched. Floyd made a reasonable request under the circumstances, even altering the testing procedures to suite the diva. Both have huge egos, saying one is bigger than the other is apples and oranges.


Witch: Oh, I don't have to be burned at the stake to prove that I'm not a witch?

Public: No, you just have to take a few easy tests (same as your opponent)

Witch: OH NO! I'm allergic to tests.. I mean.. I'm scarred.. I mean... I won't be dictated to. *Flies away on broomstick (onto the list of ATGs)*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conrad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Hans- Rebecca is a witch

Rebecca- No I am not

Hans- Prove it by letting us burn you

Rebecca- NO

Hans- See told you she was a witch...Burn her

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This is so apt to the Floyd/Pac is on PEDS debacle, summed up perfectly Daxx.

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It's a little off. They didn't test if you were a witch by burning you, they burned you after it was a forgone conclusion.

This is a little more accurate

Officer: Have you been drinking tonight?

Driver: No..

Officer: Prove it by taking a breathalyzer.

Driver: NO!

Officer: Then I can't let you drive home.

Driver: NO!!!! I'll find an officer that doesn't care if im drunk or not! But I'm really not.