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Jaz's Prospect Thread
Adrien Broner
What do people think of this guy?
I've been impressed with what I've seen of himself so far & with how tough he's been matched. He's really been put in sink or swim situations with guys like Quintero & Kickett, but found a way to come through. The Kickett fight was particularly impressive considering it was only his 10th pro fight against a guy who'd beaten Gairy St Clair around the same time Khan had.
My main concern is whether his wide stance inhibits his footwork.
Anyway here's the vids of his fight with Kickett for those of you who are unfamiliar with him. It was on the undercard of Maidana-Ortiz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjxesjQBe7k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKA2BeC-fR8
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Re: Adrien Broner
I'm always concerned when I see a fighter who looks like he's moving along too quickly (then again, I also bitch about fighters who a fed tomato cans for too long). What's his amateur pedigree like?
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Re: Adrien Broner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
I'm always concerned when I see a fighter who looks like he's moving along too quickly (then again, I also bitch about fighters who a fed tomato cans for too long). What's his amateur pedigree like?
From what I know he had an amateur career of about 300 fights, but was restricted from the Golden Gloves, at least at a national level, because of various brushes with the law. I believe he might have won Golden Gloves in Ohio or at least Cincinatti, but I can't be sure. But, he's definitely got his experience, although the footwork remains a major problem and one that would definitely have to be addressed before he stepped it up majorly. I think his career has been managed nicely and to me it's just a shame that more prospects don't get blooded in this way.
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Re: Adrien Broner
Damn, maybe I should have included Mayweather, Pacquiao or PED in the title just to get someone interested.
Whatever happened to when we used to discuss prospects and lesser-known fighters. I'm now going to make it my mission to bump any thread I can about prospects or lower-weight guys.
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Re: Adrien Broner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Damn, maybe I should have included Mayweather, Pacquiao or PED in the title just to get someone interested.
Whatever happened to when we used to discuss prospects and lesser-known fighters. I'm now going to make it my mission to bump any thread I can about prospects or lower-weight guys.
Haha, cheers for the link Jaz haven't seen this guy before but he looks very good what's the next stop for him? How far off from fighting a contender do you think?
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Re: Adrien Broner
He's fighting on the Maidana-Cayo undercard I believe, then a week later back in his hometown.
He hasn't even been a pro 2 years, so he's probably about 12-18 months away from fighting anyone in or around the top 10 at 135, but just the way he's been handled is a breath of fresh air to me compared to the way other prospects at Lightweight have been handled recently. If he sorts his footwork out he could be really special.
It's also good to get a look at these kids who don't have the easiest ride to the top because they didn't win national golden gloves or the olympics. Granted he's with Golden Boy, but he's not being given an easy run of it & I like to see a guy who doesn't let that bother him. I just hope he doesn't get burnt out.
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Re: Adrien Broner
He definitely needs to work on his stance. His legs are way too far apart.
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Re: Adrien Broner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
He definitely needs to work on his stance. His legs are way too far apart.
Definitely, I hope that his team get that sorted out quick because he's got all the raw materials.
I think I'm just going to make this my prospects thread & update it anytime I see a new guy who's worth talking about rather than constantly creating new ones. Obviously anyone else is welcome to post any they think are good. Except you CFH, you no-good Canuck racist.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Haha, H you knob ;D
;D
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Very fast, but the only problem I see is he seems to be more focused on punching quickly than he is on landing solidly. His hooks and cross look like he isn't putting as much into them as he could.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Very fast, but the only problem I see is he seems to be more focused on punching quickly than he is on landing solidly. His hooks and cross look like he isn't putting as much into them as he could.
I've seen him more recently & he's definitely sorting that out, although again I think part of it is a by-product of how far apart his legs are. It's what's frustrating about him right now, he seems to have all the tools to be special, but just doesn't utilize them & for me this is all that can keep him from the next level. I think he should look at getting trained by someone like Nazim Richardson or Jeff Mayweather. I think either could do good things with him.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
I've just read an interview with Yvon Michel, promoter of David Lemieux on rds.ca and he was saying that normally, if everything goes as planned, Lemieux should fight 4 times in 2010 (including the fights he already had) and should be in line for a title fight in 2011 admitting that nothing goes wrong till then. Next challenge is Walid Smitchet and then... let's see, there was a rumor somewhere that John Duddy might be in line among the next opponents but I do not know what weight to give to that rumor. The kid has thunder power, very good stamina and good defense, he's quite fast and moves well, he could be a very high prospect actually and I do put a lot of faith in him.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
My favorite prospects currently.
Kevin Mitchell
Kell Brook
Abner Mares
Nathan Cleverly
John Murray
Omar Henry
Daniel Jacobs
Mike Alvarado
Yuriorkis Gamboa
Are the ones that come to mind first.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
My favorite prospects currently.
Kevin Mitchell
Kell Brook
Abner Mares
Nathan Cleverly
John Murray
Omar Henry
Daniel Jacobs
Mike Alvarado
Yuriorkis Gamboa
Are the ones that come to mind first.
I have a mate who trains at the ingle gym. He's a good prospect himself, his name is eddy o Rourke . He's 4-0 at the min.anyway he was telling me about kell brook,saying how he toys with every one in sparring.apparently he makes junior witted look like an amateur. obviously we can see him tele and see for ourselves, it's good hearing from training partners and stuff tho. My mate really thinks brooks something special
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Re: Adrien Broner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
He definitely needs to work on his stance. His legs are way too far apart.
Definitely, I hope that his team get that sorted out quick because he's got all the raw materials.
I think I'm just going to make this my prospects thread & update it anytime I see a new guy who's worth talking about rather than constantly creating new ones. Obviously anyone else is welcome to post any they think are good. Except you CFH, you no-good Canuck racist.
Great idea for a thread.
I know its been said but I can't believe how wide his stance is. Its absolutely crazy. It must severely effect his mobility. Having said that you would think this is something that can altered without TOO much difficulty. Although I often think that when a fighter has a glaring fault but they often don't end up adjusting.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
He looks to have the raw attributes to be a very good fighter, but he really needs to work on that stance, it's far too wide. Looks one to watch though
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
He's short.Nice hand speed but real wide,almost slappy in spots ??A little to much of trying to look spectacular off some combos.Good to see fresh faces and hope he continues to recieve exposure and love the stiff competion.Will pay dividends down the road.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Ice, Nameless, Paddy, I agree those guys are all solid prospects (although Mitchell & surely Gamboa are well above prospect level), but I was hoping more that we could look at those prospects that don't have a lot of hype around them. Guys like Jacobs, Lemieux & Brook have always had a lot of press, but there's a lot of other guys coming up away from the spotlight who could be very special. It's good for them to get a bit of attention as they often shape up better (see Timothy Bradley).
Anyway, I'll carry this on with another Lightweight, this time from Califiornia. His name is Luis Ramos and some of the more dedicated may have seen on Fight Night Club. He's another Golden Boy guy and whilst he hasn't been matched anywhere near as tough as Broner imo, he's making a few less glaring errors although I would say Broner is more talented. I really like a few things about him. He's got a great workrate, he closes distance well and he doesn't let a few punches affect his gameplan. In recent fights he's also showed that he can take a few rounds to figure out his guy whilst also doing enough to take the rounds. I'm not sure he goes all the way, but he's a young fighter I just love watching & one I suspect might be involved in FOTY candidate or two in the next couple of years.
The guy he's fighting here is Walter Estrada, who was coming off a losing streak, but is much better than his recent history suggests. He once fought Scott Harrison for a world title, and in the past two years has fought Gamboa, Roman Martinez, Kevin Mitchell and Miguel Garcia (another quality prospect), and only Gamboa blew him away. He gave the other three more than something to think about and you could actually make an argument for him beating Garcia.
Luis Ramos vs Walter Estrada - Fight Night Club
This is a previous fight against a journeyman whose main claim to fame was KOing Johnny Tapia five years ago
Ramos Jr vs Marcos - Fight Night Club
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
I like the look of liam walsh.he's a frank warren fighter. He'S the best of 3 brothers. Hes got good amateur pedigree, a fantastic workfare.he's only had a handfull of fights. With the right schooling I think he can develop into a top exciting fighter.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
I saw on Versus TV Derrick Wilson knocking out with a singular punch another prospect and previously undefeated 12-0, Charles Huerta in less than a minute in the first round. I don't know if this can be a basis for future greatness, but surely the manner by which how he had won the fight warranted some attention. No mistake, it was impressive.
Heard the latest Freddie Roach protege, 17-year old Jesse Benavidez, has shown the same qualities that are stock essentials of the the greats.
I used to think highly of Daniel Jacobs, but recent outings have proven that he has yet to develop decisiveness in his approach towards his chosen profession.
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Re: Adrien Broner
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Damn, maybe I should have included Mayweather, Pacquiao or PED in the title just to get someone interested.
Whatever happened to when we used to discuss prospects and lesser-known fighters. I'm now going to make it my mission to bump any thread I can about prospects or lower-weight guys.
Did you say PAC?
Ooops! Wrong thread. ;D
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KananKrus
I saw on Versus TV Derrick Wilson knocking out with a singular punch another prospect and previously undefeated 12-0, Charles Huerta in less than a minute in the first round. I don't know if this can be a basis for future greatness, but surely the manner by which how he had won the fight warranted some attention. No mistake, it was impressive.
Heard the latest Freddie Roach protege, 17-year old Jesse Benavidez, has shown the same qualities that are stock essentials of the the greats.
I used to think highly of Daniel Jacobs, but recent outings have proven that he has yet to develop decisiveness in his approach towards his chosen profession.
Wilson did well, however he just didn't perform in his next fight and threw away a decision that could easily have been his. He's fighting tomorrow night and hopefully he can start to make amends, but I suspect he's headed for life as gatekeeper rather than any dreams of a world title. He just looks to lack that consistency to me.
Benavidez and Jacobs are both heavily hyped. Benavidez looks very good so far, but he should be against the comp he's been in with. It's hard to say he's a prospect until he's fought someone at least slightly above tomato can level.
I don't know what you're seeing in Jacobs, he's done well when stepping up against difficult guys like Walker & Ishe Smith. Those aren't easy guys to look good against, but he made sure he clearly won. It can't all be knockouts and he's showing a hell of a lot of promise.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
I don't know if he's been mentioned or not here but I like Edwin Rodriguez.
Edwin Rodriguez - Boxer
He was on fnf last week.
He's got a great amatuer pedigree and he looks to make the fight happen in the fight.
I agree about Derrick Wilson he looked so impressive and wild against Huerta and then he just couldn't crack the code of deLeon which Huerta in turn beat, but it wasn't easy. What may happen here is a rematch of Huerta and Wilson, which would say a lot about that first night.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
It may now seem apparent that Derrick Wilson's upset of Huerta is more the case of him being lucky, and Huerta just plainly being careless. A rematch should settle this, and so shall establish if any or both are indeed promising prospects or but the lowly "gatekeeper/s" of this sport.
On the Daniel Jacobs, what impressed me most when I first saw this fighter was his tenacity. He had an above average power that in the square ring he delivered non-stop! Tremenduous volume. It is the kind that overwhelms and wins through accumulation, it is though, not the one-punch, lights out, KO variety.
One need not guess, that his style is firmly based on cardio-work, the kind of sweat effort accomplished in many, many hours in the gym. This is a dedication that brings with it much success at its glorious end when religiously pursued, but equally, with tragic consequences when abandoned.
That said, I guess as he stepped up in class with the oppostion, he no longer had the ability to outwork them. Glaringly, his lack of KO power had exposed him to difficult situations, hard battles, the stuff that gets you old in a hurry, and sometimes even before you get to that breakthrough fight. He needs his game to step up too, save himself some wear and tear. With his talent, he should not experience difficulties in the ring unless it is within the very top tier of his weight class!
IMHO. He is in dire need of that special dedication, I'm afraid, the one that he probably do not possess.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KananKrus
On the Daniel Jacobs, what impressed me most when I first saw this fighter was his tenacity. He had an above average power that in the square ring he delivered non-stop! Tremenduous volume. It is the kind that overwhelms and wins through accumulation, it is though, not the one-punch, lights out, KO variety.
One need not guess, that his style is firmly based on cardio-work, the kind of sweat effort accomplished in many, many hours in the gym. This is a dedication that brings with it much success at its glorious end when religiously pursued, but equally, with tragic consequences when abandoned.
That said, I guess as he stepped up in class with the oppostion, he no longer had the ability to outwork them. Glaringly, his lack of KO power had exposed him to difficult situations, hard battles, the stuff that gets you old in a hurry, and sometimes even before you get to that breakthrough fight. He needs his game to step up too, save himself some wear and tear. With his talent, he should not experience difficulties in the ring unless it is within the very top tier of his weight class!
IMHO. He is in dire need of that special dedication, I'm afraid, the one that he probably do not possess.
I don't know what you've been seeing of Jacobs to suggest he's feather-fisted. Both Michael Walker & Ishe Smith, who were his step-ups, had never been stopped before, and Jacobs was certainly able to hurt Walker, because I was there live to see him do it. He also stopped George Walton who is a tough motherfucker. In addition, he has great dedication. Anyone who keeps themselves in the shape he does and who fights as regularly as he tries to (aside from the hand injury he incurred against Smith). I pretty much think every single statement you've made on Jacobs is just not true. He wasn't voted prospect of the year last year because of all the things you saw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
I don't know if he's been mentioned or not here but I like Edwin Rodriguez.
Edwin Rodriguez - Boxer
He was on fnf last week.
He's got a great amatuer pedigree and he looks to make the fight happen in the fight.
I agree about Derrick Wilson he looked so impressive and wild against Huerta and then he just couldn't crack the code of deLeon which Huerta in turn beat, but it wasn't easy. What may happen here is a rematch of Huerta and Wilson, which would say a lot about that first night.
Damn you Greg, he was going to be my next choice, always a step ahead ;D
Rodriguez is indeed very good, like you say has a solid amateur background, and from what I've seen in interviews he comes across as a really likeable guy. Like a lot of these guys he has a really good (ie bad) backstory, I may be mistaken but I believe his daughter was on life-support for about a year.
I was really impressed by his work against Darnell Boone (who is always a potential banana skin) and his KO of Armenta was especially impressive when you think of how tough a test it was expected to be. He's hopefully back on FNF on 30th April I believe.
I couldn't find the Armenta fight, but I got this for his fight with Marcus Upshaw.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...56016374671821
Here's an interview with him prior to the Armenta fight, just so people can see that he is indeed a very likeable dude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21IGzf8At8
I have to say that the Middleweight division is going to be majorly hot in the next 1-2 years with Rodriguez, Jacobs, Fernando Guerrero, Peter Quillin and Matt Korobov all potentially coming through.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KananKrus
It may now seem apparent that Derrick Wilson's upset of Huerta is more the case of him being lucky, and Huerta just plainly being careless.
You should watch his fight from last night against Ochoa, there are some really deceiving things on Wilson's record already.
1. Guadalupe deLeon is much better than his record shows, he has been losing because he has been fighting some of the highest touted American and Mexican prospects as the challenger, he is getting no favors on the cards.
2. His Ochoa fight was a draw. That was absolute BS he was having his was with Ochoa in fact the only round that you could even make an argument for Ochoa winning was the final round.
Wilson is very wild, but he showed more focus and restraint and his reward for showing more discipline? A shady draw decision.
I wouldn't close the door on him yet, he still has a ton of potential, he has reasonable power in both hands and his reaction times are great. A few years of solid training and he could be doing some real damage.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KananKrus
It may now seem apparent that Derrick Wilson's upset of Huerta is more the case of him being lucky, and Huerta just plainly being careless.
You should watch his fight from last night against Ochoa, there are some really deceiving things on Wilson's record already.
1. Guadalupe deLeon is much better than his record shows, he has been losing because he has been fighting some of the highest touted American and Mexican prospects as the challenger, he is getting no favors on the cards.
2. His Ochoa fight was a draw. That was absolute BS he was having his was with Ochoa in fact the only round that you could even make an argument for Ochoa winning was the final round.
Wilson is very wild, but he showed more focus and restraint and his reward for showing more discipline? A shady draw decision.
I wouldn't close the door on him yet, he still has a ton of potential, he has reasonable power in both hands and his reaction times are great. A few years of solid training and he could be doing some real damage.
Agreed on all of that. I think Wilson does end up as a gatekeeper, largely because he's not a big enough prospect to get the breaks you need on the way up, but no way did Ochoa draw that fight. I watched the replay this morning & I couldn't believe it. I agree on DeLeon, I think in fact they should be pushing Wilson into 6 rounders, because I think he would have won or at worst drawn that one had it been 6.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KananKrus
It may now seem apparent that Derrick Wilson's upset of Huerta is more the case of him being lucky, and Huerta just plainly being careless.
You should watch his fight from last night against Ochoa, there are some really deceiving things on Wilson's record already.
1. Guadalupe deLeon is much better than his record shows, he has been losing because he has been fighting some of the highest touted American and Mexican prospects as the challenger, he is getting no favors on the cards.
2. His Ochoa fight was a draw. That was absolute BS he was having his was with Ochoa in fact the only round that you could even make an argument for Ochoa winning was the final round.
Wilson is very wild, but he showed more focus and restraint and his reward for showing more discipline? A shady draw decision.
I wouldn't close the door on him yet, he still has a ton of potential, he has reasonable power in both hands and his reaction times are great. A few years of solid training and he could be doing some real damage.
Agreed on all of that. I think Wilson does end up as a gatekeeper, largely because he's not a big enough prospect to get the breaks you need on the way up, but no way did Ochoa draw that fight. I watched the replay this morning & I couldn't believe it. I agree on DeLeon, I think in fact they should be pushing Wilson into 6 rounders, because I think he would have won or at worst drawn that one had it been 6.
He could end up being the next generation of Emmanuel Augustus, not in style, but in his role in the boxing world.
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
I thought I'd bump my old thread to talk about a guy who I've not seen discussed, but who I genuinely feel is a future multi-weight world champ. He's called Thomas Dulorme and he really reminds me of something between a young Tommy Hearns and LW Sugar Shane. He's very tall for a 140lber at 5'10 and has good speed & great power. I think he's Puerto Rican, but he's really something & I can see him taking over this division soon.
I'm more excited about him than I've been in absolutely years. I was hyped on Broner off his technical abilities, but this guy has got all the intangibles. He's apparently facing DeMarcus Corley next in only his 12th fight. Anyway here's some vids & I'd appreciate any more info on this guy from those in PR or who've seen more of him in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4L3HopLWpM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml6-xRk9tEA&feature=related
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Man that kid is fast. He obviously doesn't have the concussive power of Mosley or Hearns, he needs to straighten his punches, and he's a bit too upright for my liking at times (but seriously, what the fuck do I know?), but his handspeed is very impressive.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
From what I know he had an amateur career of about 300 fights, but was restricted from the Golden Gloves, at least at a national level, because of various brushes with the law.
I'm sold!!! This can only be good right??? :)
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Rico Ramos & Lateef Kayode are 2 that I think have lot's of potential...
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Sadam Ali
13-0 (7 KO)
I'd seen him on the undercard of Adamek v McBride.
Not the best fighter out there but flashy, confident, exciting, popular and I'm sure he'll find himself involved in big fights soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LNWSrGSlh8
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Man that kid is fast. He obviously doesn't have the concussive power of Mosley or Hearns, he needs to straighten his punches, and he's a bit too upright for my liking at times (but seriously, what the fuck do I know?), but his handspeed is very impressive.
Obviously he won't have the concussive power of certainly Hearns, but he clearly hits very hard, you can see in opponents' eyes when they first get clipped a real look of shock. After his last fight, his opponent Harrison Cuello said he'd never been hit so hard. This is a guy who's been in with a 154lb Vanes Martirosyan, DeMarcus Corley, Breidis Prescott, Victor Cayo & Randall Bailey. He is very quick, but more than his hands, I'm impressed how fluid & fast his movement with his upper body movement for such a tall guy. That's why I disagree on him being too upright, I think for such a tall guy he moves himself really well. As you can tell I'm mad excited about this guy :cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Rico Ramos & Lateef Kayode are 2 that I think have lot's of potential...
Ramos is very good, I think he's fighting for a world title soon against Shimoda. He's also coming into a relatively 'light' division as Rigondeaux aside, I don't think there's any one else in the top 10 who I wouldn't give him a shot at. All that said, I still feel that he loads up too much on his left hook at times (admittedly it is a great shot he lets off with it) & that his tendency to be overly 'bouncy' could use up too much energy against the upper tier of opponents.
Kayode is brutal, he's bulldozed through everyone he's faced really and he should have a world title pretty soon, especially given that Cunningham is going up to HW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Sadam Ali
13-0 (7 KO)
I'd seen him on the undercard of Adamek v McBride.
Not the best fighter out there but flashy, confident, exciting, popular and I'm sure he'll find himself involved in big fights soon.
Not completely sold on Ali tbh Jim. He was an excellent amateur, he's beaten some very good opp early in his pro career (see Lenin Arroyo, a quality journeyman), looks to have all the right technical things going on plus he's engaging. Yet for some reason, I've just got this feeling that he's going to suddenly look very out of his depth when he gets in with the top guys. Almost like a new Oba Carr. Watch him become a 1st ballot HoFer now ;D
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Re: Jaz's Prospect Thread
No I agree mate. But I just get the feeling he'll be one of those exciting guys who can take a loss.
