Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
What I mean here is when a fighter takes his legacy fight, either a rematch against a shock loss, or a fight against a legend when the legend is supposed to be past his prime and the outcome a formality, has there ever been a case where the favoured fighter has lost and if so who.
Examples I can think of formality wins are Lennox Lewis avenging his shock losses to Rahman and McCall, and winning his career defining fight over Mike Tyson, an important fight for his resume, but one that was expected at the time to be a routine job.
Other examples are Wlad's return win over Lamon Brewster, Calzaghe's win over Roy Jones Jr etc.
Going back in history you could mention Ray Robinson against Randy Turpin for example.
So are there any examples in fight history where the guy who shocked the world by upsetting a superstar in the first fight against all odds did it again in the rematch, or a case where the ageing, finished great spoilt the coming of age party for the new lion by beating him when not expected to?
Anyone got any famous examples?
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
As for a past his prime fighter stopping a rising star the only thing that comes to mind is Foreman over Moorer. As for your first example, I'm not sure if this fits because I can't quite remember the odds, but I'm pretty sure Julian Jackson was favored to beat Gerald McClellan the FIRST time they fought, but not sure if he was the favorite or underdog in the rematch (which he got torched in like less than 90 seconds). I do know Evander was a huge underdog in the Tyson rematch and probably would have gone on to stop him in less than 7 rounds.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
What I mean here is when a fighter takes his legacy fight, either a rematch against a shock loss, or a fight against a legend when the legend is supposed to be past his prime and the outcome a formality, has there ever been a case where the favoured fighter has lost and if so who.
Examples I can think of formality wins are Lennox Lewis avenging his shock losses to Rahman and McCall, and winning his career defining fight over Mike Tyson, an important fight for his resume, but one that was expected at the time to be a routine job.
Other examples are Wlad's return win over Lamon Brewster, Calzaghe's win over Roy Jones Jr etc.
Going back in history you could mention Ray Robinson against Randy Turpin for example.
So are there any examples in fight history where the guy who shocked the world by upsetting a superstar in the first fight against all odds did it again in the rematch, or a case where the ageing, finished great spoilt the coming of age party for the new lion by beating him when not expected to?
Anyone got any famous examples?
Well for your first question, i think Junior Jones beating MAB was a big upset. And he proved it was no fluke beating him again over 12 rounds.
As for your 2nd question well Larry Holmes was 42 years old, and Ray Mercer was supposed to be an upcoming star. And Larry Holmes gave Ray Mercer a boxing lesson.
And im pretty sure he was the favorite from what i remember, the commentator saying. I'd have to pull out my Larry Holmes career set to make certain, but im pretty im right.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Think Chavez was on his way to being tko'd and should have lost to Randall in rematch....3rd fight was a joke & all about erasing that 'Asterisk' for Chavez
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Think Chavez was on his way to being tko'd and should have lost to Randall in rematch....3rd fight was a joke & all about erasing that 'Asterisk' for Chavez
The 3rd fight wasn't that bad actually, i watched it a few months ago. And for old guys it certainly wasn't that bad action wise.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
B-Hop a supposedly past his prime star (he was 36 at the time and a big underdog) stopping a rising star in Trinidad who was knocking guys out left and right at 154 and 160.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Think Chavez was on his way to being tko'd and should have lost to Randall in rematch....3rd fight was a joke & all about erasing that 'Asterisk' for Chavez
The 3rd fight wasn't that bad actually, i watched it a few months ago. And for old guys it certainly wasn't that bad action wise.
Maybe not action,sure, but Randall was fighting for a paycheck...and from what I've read fresh out of rehab and very damaged.Chavez was all about restoring some blemishes at that point,did it with Willy Wise just prior.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Think Chavez was on his way to being tko'd and should have lost to Randall in rematch....3rd fight was a joke & all about erasing that 'Asterisk' for Chavez
The 3rd fight wasn't that bad actually, i watched it a few months ago. And for old guys it certainly wasn't that bad action wise.
Maybe not action,sure, but Randall was fighting for a paycheck...and from what I've read fresh out of rehab and very damaged.Chavez was all about restoring some blemishes at that point,did it with Willy Wise just prior.
Oh yea i agree it meant nothing at that point legacy wise, but you have to understand. I had all kinds of bad expectations when i was going to watch this fight, but it suprised me and i enjoyed it.
I also agree Frankie Randall should of had 2 wins over JCC, i respect JCC alot and love watching him fight. But the 2nd fight really stinks IMO, and yes JCC was past his prime. But i still think it was due to styles aswell, Frankie Randall was a very sharp boxer, hence his nickname "The Surgeon".
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
What I mean here is when a fighter takes his legacy fight, either a rematch against a shock loss, or a fight against a legend when the legend is supposed to be past his prime and the outcome a formality, has there ever been a case where the favoured fighter has lost and if so who.
Examples I can think of formality wins are Lennox Lewis avenging his shock losses to Rahman and McCall, and winning his career defining fight over Mike Tyson, an important fight for his resume, but one that was expected at the time to be a routine job.
Other examples are Wlad's return win over Lamon Brewster, Calzaghe's win over Roy Jones Jr etc.
Going back in history you could mention Ray Robinson against Randy Turpin for example.
So are there any examples in fight history where the guy who shocked the world by upsetting a superstar in the first fight against all odds did it again in the rematch, or a case where the ageing, finished great spoilt the coming of age party for the new lion by beating him when not expected to?
Anyone got any famous examples?
Well for your first question, i think Junior Jones beating MAB was a big upset. And he proved it was no fluke beating him again over 12 rounds.
As for your 2nd question well Larry Holmes was 42 years old, and Ray Mercer was supposed to be an upcoming star. And Larry Holmes gave Ray Mercer a boxing lesson.
And im pretty sure he was the favorite from what i remember, the commentator saying. I'd have to pull out my Larry Holmes career set to make certain, but im pretty im right.
Good call on Junior Jones Ice that definitely fits my criteria. I guess Foreman Moorer could count by I don't think Moorer was ever considered a superstar, which is what I meant really, a kind of coming out party for the star elect that goes wrong, Foreman, like Holyfield in his later years has always been the star in his fights, people watching to see him win, even if not favoured to do so.
Holmes against Mercer I can't remember back that far to the general feeling of those times but it could be another example if Mercer was predicted to be the next big thing.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
What I mean here is when a fighter takes his legacy fight, either a rematch against a shock loss, or a fight against a legend when the legend is supposed to be past his prime and the outcome a formality, has there ever been a case where the favoured fighter has lost and if so who.
Examples I can think of formality wins are Lennox Lewis avenging his shock losses to Rahman and McCall, and winning his career defining fight over Mike Tyson, an important fight for his resume, but one that was expected at the time to be a routine job.
Other examples are Wlad's return win over Lamon Brewster, Calzaghe's win over Roy Jones Jr etc.
Going back in history you could mention Ray Robinson against Randy Turpin for example.
So are there any examples in fight history where the guy who shocked the world by upsetting a superstar in the first fight against all odds did it again in the rematch, or a case where the ageing, finished great spoilt the coming of age party for the new lion by beating him when not expected to?
Anyone got any famous examples?
Well for your first question, i think Junior Jones beating MAB was a big upset. And he proved it was no fluke beating him again over 12 rounds.
As for your 2nd question well Larry Holmes was 42 years old, and Ray Mercer was supposed to be an upcoming star. And Larry Holmes gave Ray Mercer a boxing lesson.
And im pretty sure he was the favorite from what i remember, the commentator saying. I'd have to pull out my Larry Holmes career set to make certain, but im pretty im right.
Good call on Junior Jones Ice that definitely fits my criteria. I guess Foreman Moorer could count by I don't think Moorer was ever considered a superstar, which is what I meant really, a kind of coming out party for the star elect that goes wrong, Foreman, like Holyfield in his later years has always been the star in his fights, people watching to see him win, even if not favoured to do so.
Holmes against Mercer I can't remember back that far to the general feeling of those times but it could be another example if Mercer was predicted to be the next big thing.
Well this is really going back Bilbo, and im not even sure if Floyd Patterson was the favorite. But Floyd Patterson was an upcoming star being the Olympic champion and all, then he fought the veteran Joey Maxim and lost on points. I suppose that could qualify if Floyd Patterson was the favorite.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Forest was supposed to beat mayorga and got smashed and then lost the rematch.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Well for your first question, i think Junior Jones beating MAB was a big upset. And he proved it was no fluke beating him again over 12 rounds.
As for your 2nd question well Larry Holmes was 42 years old, and Ray Mercer was supposed to be an upcoming star. And Larry Holmes gave Ray Mercer a boxing lesson.
And im pretty sure he was the favorite from what i remember, the commentator saying. I'd have to pull out my Larry Holmes career set to make certain, but im pretty im right.
Good call on Junior Jones Ice that definitely fits my criteria. I guess Foreman Moorer could count by I don't think Moorer was ever considered a superstar, which is what I meant really, a kind of coming out party for the star elect that goes wrong, Foreman, like Holyfield in his later years has always been the star in his fights, people watching to see him win, even if not favoured to do so.
Holmes against Mercer I can't remember back that far to the general feeling of those times but it could be another example if Mercer was predicted to be the next big thing.
Well this is really going back Bilbo, and im not even sure if Floyd Patterson was the favorite. But Floyd Patterson was an upcoming star being the Olympic champion and all, then he fought the veteran Joey Maxim and lost on points. I suppose that could qualify if Floyd Patterson was the favorite.
Only if he lost to him twice. There have been many upsets in boxing but I'm talking about back to back upsets, Junior Jones defintely qualifies, as does Mayorga against Forrest (good call Snakey).
You know the kind of fight, a fighter loses to a guy in a big upset, then maybe meet either immediately or down the line when the guy has proven himself even further and the guy he shockingly lost to is believed to no threat, and routine revenge win is expected, only it doesn't happen.
If Jones had beaten B Hop tonight that would have been the kind of example I meant really, when all the momentum is in favour of one fighter, to get his legacy defining win over a legend, well past his best
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Rahman losing to Maskaev twice definitely qualifies imo, I know he was favored in both too.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Mosley's defeat to Vernon Forrest. Shane looked unbeatable prior to this.
If you're talking about formality fights where someone played spoiler, then Jimmy Young, Carlos Baldomir & Zahir Raheem have all done this to George Foreman, Zab Judah & Erik Morales respectively.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
As far as many Australians were concerned Jeff Fenech got ripped off against Azumha Nelson 1. Turned out Azumah had lost his misses the week before the fight and had the flu when he fought but was given a bit of gift anyway and Jeff lost his zero.
(day time outdoor match from memory).
When Azumah came out here for the rematch Jeff wasnt in the fight at all.
Alot of Aussies lost alot of cash that day, I was not one of them.
Jeff was great against all of his smaller opponents, but thats where his game ended.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Mosley's defeat to Vernon Forrest. Shane looked unbeatable prior to this.
If you're talking about formality fights where someone played spoiler, then Jimmy Young, Carlos Baldomir & Zahir Raheem have all done this to George Foreman, Zab Judah & Erik Morales respectively.
Kind of but only when they did it twice, I guess Forrest could count against Shane, but I'm not sure he was that big an underdog in the second fight at least.
A hypothetical example might be Lennox Lewis losing to Rahman again in the rematch, or Wlad being knocked out again by Lamon Brewster.
Pavlik Hopkins is a good example of the unbeaten heir elect losing to the supposedly retirement bound former champ.
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Mosley's defeat to Vernon Forrest. Shane looked unbeatable prior to this.
If you're talking about formality fights where someone played spoiler, then Jimmy Young, Carlos Baldomir & Zahir Raheem have all done this to George Foreman, Zab Judah & Erik Morales respectively.
Kind of but only when they did it twice, I guess Forrest could count against Shane, but I'm not sure he was that big an underdog in the second fight at least.
A hypothetical example might be Lennox Lewis losing to Rahman again in the rematch, or Wlad being knocked out again by Lamon Brewster.
Pavlik Hopkins is a good example of the unbeaten heir elect losing to the supposedly retirement bound former champ.
Michael Spinks vs Larry Holmes, im pretty sure Michael Spinks was the underdog in both fights.
Or how about Iran Barkley vs Tommy Hearns ?
Re: Has a fighter ever lost the 'formality' rematch or career defining win?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Mosley's defeat to Vernon Forrest. Shane looked unbeatable prior to this.
If you're talking about formality fights where someone played spoiler, then Jimmy Young, Carlos Baldomir & Zahir Raheem have all done this to George Foreman, Zab Judah & Erik Morales respectively.
Kind of but only when they did it twice, I guess Forrest could count against Shane, but I'm not sure he was that big an underdog in the second fight at least.
A hypothetical example might be Lennox Lewis losing to Rahman again in the rematch, or Wlad being knocked out again by Lamon Brewster.
Pavlik Hopkins is a good example of the unbeaten heir elect losing to the supposedly retirement bound former champ.
Michael Spinks vs Larry Holmes, im pretty sure Michael Spinks was the underdog in both fights.
Or how about Iran Barkley vs Tommy Hearns ?
Yeah good calls Ice.
