Have either Klitchko ever beaten anybody better than John Ruiz?

I'm not blaming the Klits. They can't help being in the worst era of heavyweight boxing history and I think they both would beat Haye (although Haye would have a punchers chance against Wlad) BUT their resume's really suck! The best win on either of their records is Sam Peter. Vitali's resume is even worse than Wlad's!

I don't rate Haye at all, I have always thought he was one dimensional with suspect stamina and very overrated - I still feel that. But Valuev(shite as he is) and Ruiz (shite as he is) would both be in the top 3 best wins on either Klit's record, had they have fought them.

There answer to this question is a simple "yes".

Ruslan Chagaev beat John Ruiz (and also Valuev, but I digress) ergo he's a better fighter than John Ruiz and Wlad hammered the hell out of him

And there are a ton of guys on Wlad and Vitali's records that are more "dangerous" in terms of punching power than Ruiz. And there are even more guys the Klitschko's have beat who are more talented than Ruiz.

Ruiz was a good solid win for the WBA title holder but he's 38, his biggest win after the Chagaev loss was vs Jameel McCline and to warm up for this fight he fought Adnan Serin who is 19(7 KO's)-10-1. So I am not saying Ruiz is "done" but I am saying he is on the downside of his career which given his abilities has been an extremely good career for him.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

There answer to this question is a simple "yes".

Ruslan Chagaev beat John Ruiz (and also Valuev, but I digress) ergo he's a better fighter than John Ruiz and Wlad hammered the hell out of him

And there are a ton of guys on Wlad and Vitali's records that are more "dangerous" in terms of punching power than Ruiz. And there are even more guys the Klitschko's have beat who are more talented than Ruiz.

Ruiz was a good solid win for the WBA title holder but he's 38, his biggest win after the Chagaev loss was vs Jameel McCline and to warm up for this fight he fought Adnan Serin who is 19(7 KO's)-10-1. So I am not saying Ruiz is "done" but I am saying he is on the downside of his career which given his abilities has been an extremely good career for him.

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However, may I point out that Ruiz held almost zero times during the entire fight. Just saying. I mean, this is Ruiz. He is famous for holding. For a guy on the way out, he put up one of his cleanest performances in a long time.

Here are the fights I rate as the best/biggest wins for the Klitschko's

Wlad: Sam Peter, Ruslan Chagaev (1st person to stop him), Chris Byrd X 2, Calvin Brock(1st person to stop him), Tony Thompson (1st person to stop him)

Vitali: Cris Arreola (1st person to stop him), Corrie Sanders, Sam Peter(1st person to stop him), Danny Williams

....if Ruiz would fit on anyone's top 3 it would have to be Vitali, because before fighting Lewis Vitali didn't have any top teir fighters on his record outside of Chris Byrd. The guys Wlad fought (that I listed) were all tough, they had awkward styles or big power and he wiped the floor with all of them.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Here are the fights I rate as the best/biggest wins for the Klitschko's

Wlad: Sam Peter, Ruslan Chagaev (1st person to stop him), Chris Byrd X 2, Calvin Brock(1st person to stop him), Tony Thompson (1st person to stop him)

Vitali: Cris Arreola (1st person to stop him), Corrie Sanders, Sam Peter(1st person to stop him), Danny Williams

....if Ruiz would fit on anyone's top 3 it would have to be Vitali, because before fighting Lewis Vitali didn't have any top teir fighters on his record outside of Chris Byrd. The guys Wlad fought (that I listed) were all tough, they had awkward styles or big power and he wiped the floor with all of them.

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i would agree with the exception of Danny Williams

Well yeah but #1 that was right after DW beat Tyson and #2 the power that was on display that night by Vitali was just awesome! (and DW showed too much heart, it should have been stopped a lot sooner)

Bloody hell, H. Still on about Haye's dodgy stamina? One dimensional? You'll get him beat one of these days then say "I told ya so" ;D

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

However, may I point out that Ruiz held almost zero times during the entire fight. Just saying. I mean, this is Ruiz. He is famous for holding. For a guy on the way out, he put up one of his cleanest performances in a long time.

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That's probably one of the main reasons he lost. Of course the guy he was in with was younger, faster, stronger, and just an all around fresher fighter.

Had Ruiz tried to make it dirty, I think the ref would have taken points from him.

The Klits would have beaten Ruiz in a similar manner, Ruiz is nothing to write home about.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

However, may I point out that Ruiz held almost zero times during the entire fight. Just saying. I mean, this is Ruiz. He is famous for holding. For a guy on the way out, he put up one of his cleanest performances in a long time.

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That's probably one of the main reasons he lost. Of course the guy he was in with was younger, faster, stronger, and just an all around fresher fighter.

Had Ruiz tried to make it dirty, I think the ref would have taken points from him.

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Have you even seen the fight?

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Have you even seen the fight?

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I've seen parts of it....seemed to me to be similar to the Valuev fight for long stretches but with the punches doing more damage

Sure they have....And in their prime not too mention in more impressive fashion then Ruiz was beaten by Haye....

Ruiz is just tough and comes to fight he is nothing overly special...

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Bloody hell, H. Still on about Haye's dodgy stamina? One dimensional? You'll get him beat one of these days then say "I told ya so" ;D

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I just don't rate him fella ;)

Really like the guy and hope I'm wrong, but I think he gets sparked soon.

Areola and Eddie Chambers are better than ruiz bot struggle to beat the terrible valuev though despite being better than him as Areola in paticular has that come foreward style and he's not going to stop the big bum.

I rated Chagaev as a very good little fighter prior to his injury.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Here are the fights I rate as the best/biggest wins for the Klitschko's

Wlad: Sam Peter, Ruslan Chagaev (1st person to stop him), Chris Byrd X 2, Calvin Brock(1st person to stop him), Tony Thompson (1st person to stop him)

Vitali: Cris Arreola (1st person to stop him), Corrie Sanders, Sam Peter(1st person to stop him), Danny Williams

....if Ruiz would fit on anyone's top 3 it would have to be Vitali, because before fighting Lewis Vitali didn't have any top teir fighters on his record outside of Chris Byrd. The guys Wlad fought (that I listed) were all tough, they had awkward styles or big power and he wiped the floor with all of them.

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I would add Sultan Ibragimov to Wlad's resume. He might be small and not a lot of power, but the guy can scrap. I think Sultan would take John.

The problem with most of the "better" fighters on the Klitscho hit list is that most of them turned up (or didn't bother, depending on how you look at it) and then had the worst performances of their careers.

I can't remember the last fighter that looked prepared for the Klitscho 1-2 combo, all of the ones I can remember were like rabbits in headlights as they stood around and took a beating. Who was the last good aggresive fighter they fought? It's easy to fight someone who doesn't really fight back!

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Originally Posted by 0james0

The problem with most of the "better" fighters on the Klitscho hit list is that most of them turned up (or didn't bother, depending on how you look at it) and then had the worst performances of their careers.

I can't remember the last fighter that looked prepared for the Klitscho 1-2 combo, all of the ones I can remember were like rabbits in headlights as they stood around and took a beating. Who was the last good aggresive fighter they fought? It's easy to fight someone who doesn't really fight back!

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It's hard to fight back and not look like a deer caught up in headlights when you're getting your ass pummeled. Excuses aside, the Klit bros have better opposition on their record than David Haye. That's a fact.

Beating Barret, Valuev, and Ruiz doesn't make 1 have a better HW record than the Klit bros.

Ruiz is far "greater" in a historical perspective than anybody on either guy's list except for Chris Byrd maybe(who has a TKO over Vitali remember). "Better" is just subjective I guess, but there's nobody that great on either guy's resume especially Vitali's and then you've got to take into account the Byrd TKO and the Pele Reid debacle.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Ruiz is far "greater" in a historical perspective than anybody on either guy's list except for Chris Byrd maybe(who has a TKO over Vitali remember). "Better" is just subjective I guess, but there's nobody that great on either guy's resume especially Vitali's and then you've got to take into account the Byrd TKO and the Pele Reid debacle.

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As much as I dislike both Klitchsco brothers. Who else could they have fought? From memmory there haven't been many/any decent opposition for them in the last 10 years.

Even if there was, those fighters probably wouldn't have wanted to get in a ring with them anyway!

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by 0james0

The problem with most of the "better" fighters on the Klitscho hit list is that most of them turned up (or didn't bother, depending on how you look at it) and then had the worst performances of their careers.

I can't remember the last fighter that looked prepared for the Klitscho 1-2 combo, all of the ones I can remember were like rabbits in headlights as they stood around and took a beating. Who was the last good aggresive fighter they fought? It's easy to fight someone who doesn't really fight back!

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It's hard to fight back and not look like a deer caught up in headlights when you're getting your ass pummeled. Excuses aside, the Klit bros have better opposition on their record than David Haye. That's a fact.

Beating Barret, Valuev, and Ruiz doesn't make 1 have a better HW record than the Klit bros.

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Thats true, but unifying the division below (every belt) including knocking out the french champion in France does count for something

havent managed to get through this yet. Chagaev would probably be a similar scenario as to saturday night. Savvy fighter but lacks the physical attributes to bother haye.

Arreola for his power alone though haye would just run rings around him and would be far more active than vitali was leading to a much earlier stoppage. Same with chambers.

The klitschkos biggest challenge in their dominance is haye and haye alone, nothing else really needs thinking about