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What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
So Bernard Hopkins beats Roy Jones this week and as a result is dropped to sixth on the Ring rankings to be replaced at 5 by Nonito Donaire? :rolleyes:
WHY WHY WHY FUCKING WHY DOES THIS MAN KEEP CLIMBING THE RANKINGS!!!!!
He hasn't fought since the beginning of Feb but yet again he climbs places on the back of somebody else's win.
I'm mystified, does ANYONE in the world genuinely think Nonito Donaire is the 5th best fighter in the world.
He's only ever fought one fighter who has ever held a world title and that was three years ago :mad:
Floyd and Shane fight later in the month and it's a dead certainty that the Ring will drop the loser below Donaire but the big question is will they put him above the winner?
My guess is that if Floyd wins Donaire will jump to number 3, but if Mosely springs the upset they will probably put Donaire second behind Manny.
If he can just keep out of the ring for a few more months he should be the p4p number 1 going into the Vic Darchinyan rematch. If he wins he will probably, according to Ring magazine be the greatest of all time.
The Ring have made me HATE Nonito Donaire :mad:
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Where have you been, Bilbo? Donaire is by far the best P4P. Why they have him at 5 is beyond me. He is superhuman in every aspect. I'm shocked he's not being asked to do random drug tests.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
I'm pretty sure the reason is he made his opponent come up 3 weight classes in his last fight, how many fighters can say they've done that?
Case closed Nonito Donaire > B-Hop
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
boxrec's isn't subjective even if it is garbage, it's a fully automated equation used to get their list.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
There is subjective and then there is stupid. Boxrec's ratings are most definately the latter.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Subjective should not equal random though. Sure it's based on many criteria but it is should still be possiblt to consider all factors carefully and come up with an appropriate list agreed by most.
On what criteria is Donaire there? Because he beat Darchinyan, ONE single name opponent in his entire career. He's literally fought nobody else.
The irony is that Darchinyan himself isn't on the Rings list, yet he's got to 5th in the rankings soley on the back of beating him 3 years ago.
Take away Darchinyan and look at his resume.
Amir Khan has beaten twice as many world champs as him.
If Donaire wasn't on his record he wouldn't even have a top 30 resume, only two other opponents have even fought for world titles, losing efforts of course.
Boxrecs rankings are not subjective at all, they are purely a result of a computer algorithm, no human choice at all.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
boxrec's isn't subjective even if it is garbage, it's a fully automated equation used to get their list.
Interesting. I remember Pacquiao was ranked below Hopkins for months on boxrec and wondered why.
But p4p is usually subjective anyway. Well this should kill any notion that the Ring is biased for Oscar's fighters because he owns the mag.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
boxrec's isn't subjective even if it is garbage, it's a fully automated equation used to get their list.
Interesting. I remember Pacquiao was ranked below Hopkins for months on boxrec and wondered why.
But p4p is usually subjective anyway.
Well this should kill any notion that the Ring is biased for Oscar's fighters because he owns the mag.
Not at all, he's obviously just grooming him for his own stable. 'Come join me Nonito I'll make you a superstar, see you're already number 5 in the world, sign the contract and you're number 1!!' Tosser :fyou: Oscar
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
If ever you wanted evidence that The Ring's rankings are pathetic it's Hopkins not Donaire.
In the past 18-months that boring old bastard has fought journeyman Ornelas and got knocked out by a beyond shot Roy Jones.
Yet he's still no.6
Has any fighter in history been dropped only two spots after suffering a 6th round KO? Shocking.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Subjective should not equal random though. Sure it's based on many criteria but it is should still be possiblt to consider all factors carefully and come up with an appropriate list agreed by most.
On what criteria is Donaire there? Because he beat Darchinyan, ONE single name opponent in his entire career. He's literally fought nobody else.
The irony is that Darchinyan himself isn't on the Rings list, yet he's got to 5th in the rankings soley on the back of beating him 3 years ago.
Take away Darchinyan and look at his resume.
Amir Khan has beaten twice as many world champs as him.
If Donaire wasn't on his record he wouldn't even have a top 30 resume, only two other opponents have even fought for world titles, losing efforts of course.
Boxrecs rankings are not subjective at all, they are purely a result of a computer algorithm, no human choice at all.
I would not rate Donaire top 5 but regardless of how may world champs Kahn has beaten he is not a top P4P fighter....
The win over Barrera should not even be counted towards an accomplishment...
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
The Ring is rewarding Donaire for not taking on challenges. Sure he beat Darchinyan but atleast Vic has never backed down from a challenge. If Donaire had taken on Mijares, Arce, Agbeko, Gorres etc, there is a good chance he'd have lost by now too.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Dan Rafael also dropped BHOP in his light-heavyweight rankings noting that Hopkins "stock dropped significantly, especially after Jones went the distance just a few months after Danny Green had drilled him in one round."
ESPN.com's division-by-division rankings - ESPN
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
I don't agree with him being so high with guys like Chad Dawson around, but he is a really good fighter, much better than crap fighters like Caballero.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
The Ring is rewarding Donaire for not taking on challenges. Sure he beat Darchinyan but atleast Vic has never backed down from a challenge. If Donaire had taken on Mijares, Arce, Agbeko, Gorres etc, there is a good chance he'd have lost by now too.
He's a cut above any of those guys.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I don't agree with him being so high with guys like Chad Dawson around, but he is a really good fighter, much better than crap fighters like Caballero.
How is he better than Caballero? Resume comparison? Activity? Skill level?
Donaire has timing, but ALL of his credit is based off of one punch against Vic, one-punch does not a great fighter make. He is a good boxer, but I don't see why you would go after Caballero in your attack, Caballero has done much more.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I don't agree with him being so high with guys like Chad Dawson around, but he is a really good fighter, much better than crap fighters like Caballero.
How is he better than Caballero? Resume comparison? Activity? Skill level?
Donaire has timing, but ALL of his credit is based off of one punch against Vic, one-punch does not a great fighter make. He is a good boxer, but I don't see why you would go after Caballero in your attack, Caballero has done much more.
Agreed. Caballero has a much better resume than Donaire, though you could conceivably argue that Donaire has a superior skill-set, which is the problem with the subjective nature of P4P lists. Personally, I almost always favor a fighters resume over his perceived skill level.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I don't agree with him being so high with guys like Chad Dawson around, but he is a really good fighter, much better than crap fighters like Caballero.
How is he better than Caballero? Resume comparison? Activity? Skill level?
Donaire has timing, but ALL of his credit is based off of one punch against Vic, one-punch does not a great fighter make. He is a good boxer, but I don't see why you would go after Caballero in your attack, Caballero has done much more.
In some senses Caballero has done more, in others he has been embarrassed by inferior opposition than Donaire. I go after Caballero because he is a worse farse than Margarito or Miranda. I am waiting for the day that Guillermo Rigondeaux or some of the actually talented fighters at 122-126 get the oppertunity to face Caballero because he is a C level fighter.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I don't agree with him being so high with guys like Chad Dawson around, but he is a really good fighter, much better than crap fighters like Caballero.
How is he better than Caballero? Resume comparison? Activity? Skill level?
Donaire has timing, but ALL of his credit is based off of one punch against Vic, one-punch does not a great fighter make. He is a good boxer, but I don't see why you would go after Caballero in your attack, Caballero has done much more.
In some senses Caballero has done more, in others he has been embarrassed by inferior opposition than Donaire. I go after Caballero because he is a worse farse than Margarito or Miranda. I am waiting for the day that Guillermo Rigondeaux or some of the actually talented fighters at 122-126 get the oppertunity to face Caballero because he is a C level fighter.
Embarressed because he got caught once? Or because he lost to an elite level Cordoba? I know you love your Rigondeaux, but that has nothing to do with Donaire and his lack of a resume. I mean Donaire's last opponent is a strawweight, you can't get around that, he's a good strawweight, but still a strawweight. Caballero was the first to beat de Leon, he unified two belts at super bantam against a ring rated fighter, and now he's fighting for a title at feather, Caballero has more than made up for his losses with his recent activity.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
I don't agree with him being so high with guys like Chad Dawson around, but he is a really good fighter, much better than crap fighters like Caballero.
How is he better than Caballero? Resume comparison? Activity? Skill level?
Donaire has timing, but ALL of his credit is based off of one punch against Vic, one-punch does not a great fighter make. He is a good boxer, but I don't see why you would go after Caballero in your attack, Caballero has done much more.
In some senses Caballero has done more, in others he has been embarrassed by inferior opposition than Donaire. I go after Caballero because he is a worse farse than Margarito or Miranda. I am waiting for the day that Guillermo Rigondeaux or some of the actually talented fighters at 122-126 get the oppertunity to face Caballero because he is a C level fighter.
I thought Donaire was embarrassed against a 13-3-1 club fighter in Rafael Concepcion who not only took him the distance but was pretty much winning the fight until the later rounds. Can you name any 13-3-1 fighter in any other weight class in all of boxing that would trouble another p4p star like that?
His inclusion in the p4p rankings is even more bizarre than Mijares.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ghdpick
:lickish: Be happy!
What a constructive first post.....
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
How is he better than Caballero? Resume comparison? Activity? Skill level?
Donaire has timing, but ALL of his credit is based off of one punch against Vic, one-punch does not a great fighter make. He is a good boxer, but I don't see why you would go after Caballero in your attack, Caballero has done much more.
In some senses Caballero has done more, in others he has been embarrassed by inferior opposition than Donaire. I go after Caballero because he is a worse farse than Margarito or Miranda. I am waiting for the day that Guillermo Rigondeaux or some of the actually talented fighters at 122-126 get the oppertunity to face Caballero because he is a C level fighter.
I thought Donaire was embarrassed against a 13-3-1 club fighter in Rafael Concepcion who not only took him the distance but was pretty much winning the fight until the later rounds. Can you name any 13-3-1 fighter in any other weight class in all of boxing that would trouble another p4p star like that?
His inclusion in the p4p rankings is even more bizarre than Mijares.
To be fair Concepcion was 4 1/2 pounds over the limit. That's a lot of pounds to be over the limit and that is an significant advantage especially for the really low weight classes.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
I hate to say this, but I totally agree Bilbo. No way is Donaire the 6th best fighter in the world. He dragged up a strawweight for his last fight at Super-Flyweight. A strawweight who wasn't even the best in the world at his division (ranked 10th before the fight).
He has a great win against Darchinyan and that is it. The sad thing is there is a really talented Asian fighter in the lower divisions in Hozumi Hasegawa, who gets fuck all interest despite annihaliting people at Bantamweight, purely because he's not on US TV. I'm amazed they haven't tried dropping Marquez below him. Also how the fuck is Cotto still ranked?
Anyway ignoring that, Donaire, whilst talented, is not on technique the 6th best fighter in the world. He's just not. I don't even like him, but Tim Bradley is far more deserving of being in there. I don't know who I'll root against when Donaire & Vic fight again. Double KO please.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
I hate to say this, but I totally agree Bilbo. No way is Donaire the 6th best fighter in the world. He dragged up a strawweight for his last fight at Super-Flyweight. A strawweight who wasn't even the best in the world at his division (ranked 10th before the fight).
He has a great win against Darchinyan and that is it. The sad thing is there is a really talented Asian fighter in the lower divisions in Hozumi Hasegawa, who gets fuck all interest despite annihaliting people at Bantamweight, purely because he's not on US TV. I'm amazed they haven't tried dropping Marquez below him. Also how the fuck is Cotto still ranked?
Anyway ignoring that, Donaire, whilst talented, is not on technique the 6th best fighter in the world. He's just not. I don't even like him, but Tim Bradley is far more deserving of being in there. I don't know who I'll root against when Donaire & Vic fight again. Double KO please.
Donaire has the talent to be ranked 6th...IMO he beats just about everyone in or around his division....HE JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO FIGHT THE GUYS NEEDED TO MAKE THE RANKING CREDIBLE!!!!
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
I hate to say this, but I totally agree Bilbo. No way is Donaire the 6th best fighter in the world. He dragged up a strawweight for his last fight at Super-Flyweight. A strawweight who wasn't even the best in the world at his division (ranked 10th before the fight).
He has a great win against Darchinyan and that is it. The sad thing is there is a really talented Asian fighter in the lower divisions in Hozumi Hasegawa, who gets fuck all interest despite annihaliting people at Bantamweight, purely because he's not on US TV. I'm amazed they haven't tried dropping Marquez below him. Also how the fuck is Cotto still ranked?
Anyway ignoring that, Donaire, whilst talented, is not on technique the 6th best fighter in the world. He's just not. I don't even like him, but Tim Bradley is far more deserving of being in there. I don't know who I'll root against when Donaire & Vic fight again. Double KO please.
Donaire has the talent to be ranked 6th...IMO he beats just about everyone in or around his division....HE JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO FIGHT THE GUYS NEEDED TO MAKE THE RANKING CREDIBLE!!!!
I agree, he has the skill sets to merit the ranking, but he has to get in there with those guys! I feel that he can dominate 115 and potentially even dominate 118. I'm high on the guy's skills, just not his current resume. Ever since the Vic fight in 2007 his career has been going in the wrong direction.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eagle
The Ring is rewarding Donaire for not taking on challenges. Sure he beat Darchinyan but atleast Vic has never backed down from a challenge. If Donaire had taken on Mijares, Arce, Agbeko, Gorres etc, there is a good chance he'd have lost by now too.
donaire already has 1 loss in his record. 23(15 kos) - 1 - 0
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
I hate to say this, but I totally agree Bilbo. No way is Donaire the 6th best fighter in the world. He dragged up a strawweight for his last fight at Super-Flyweight. A strawweight who wasn't even the best in the world at his division (ranked 10th before the fight).
He has a great win against Darchinyan and that is it. The sad thing is there is a really talented Asian fighter in the lower divisions in Hozumi Hasegawa, who gets fuck all interest despite annihaliting people at Bantamweight, purely because he's not on US TV. I'm amazed they haven't tried dropping Marquez below him. Also how the fuck is Cotto still ranked?
Anyway ignoring that, Donaire, whilst talented, is not on technique the 6th best fighter in the world. He's just not. I don't even like him, but Tim Bradley is far more deserving of being in there. I don't know who I'll root against when Donaire & Vic fight again. Double KO please.
Donaire has the talent to be ranked 6th...IMO he beats just about everyone in or around his division....HE JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO FIGHT THE GUYS NEEDED TO MAKE THE RANKING CREDIBLE!!!!
I agree, he has the skill sets to merit the ranking, but he has to get in there with those guys! I feel that he can dominate 115 and potentially even dominate 118. I'm high on the guy's skills, just not his current resume. Ever since the Vic fight in 2007 his career has been going in the wrong direction.
Yeah I thought after the Vic win he would really open up and start going after the top guys...I mean Vic was the most feared fighter under Bantamweight when they met...people thought he was going to walk through Donaire...Then his promotion problems...OK I understand fighters have that issue especially after winning a world title because they are now in a new earning bracket....But still nothing...Figured maybe a few soft defenses to get the whole I am Champion feel...Nope....
Been disappointed....was really looking at some big fights for him to be made....
Though Thanks to the information of Toe2toe we now know Donaire has 1 loss on his record :D
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
The question between Caballero and Donaire is who would win if they were the same weight? The answer to me is at the end of the day Caballero is still the same height as Margarito, has a ridiculous reach advantage and would make it virtually impossible for Donaire (based on his style) to get anything meaningful going. Now this is of course all subjective. I do admit Donaire is a talent, but I don't think his talent level would be able to overcome the physical advantages off Caballero.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
the Ring recognize skill, thats why he's top 5 p4p.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
the Ring recognize skill, thats why he's top 5 p4p.
So why not rate Yuriorkis Gamboa in the top 10 then ? or Juan Manuel Lopez ETC ? thats biased bro, its not just to do with skill, its about the whole package, resume, longevity, opponents, titles, ETC.
No way Nonito Donaire is P4P top 5, Chad Dawson is just as skilled. And has beaten better opponents yet he is only 8, im not dissing Nonito Donaire. I love watching him fight, his last KO was just fantastic to watch.
But his ranking makes no sense what so ever, its like the Ring Magazine is just randomly placing him.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
the Ring recognize skill, thats why he's top 5 p4p.
So why not rate Yuriorkis Gamboa in the top 10 then ? or Juan Manuel Lopez ETC ? thats biased bro, its not just to do with skill, its about the whole package, resume, longevity, opponents, titles, ETC.
No way Nonito Donaire is P4P top 5, Chad Dawson is just as skilled. And has beaten better opponents yet he is only 8, im not dissing Nonito Donaire. I love watching him fight, his last KO was just fantastic to watch.
But his ranking makes no sense what so ever, its like the Ring Magazine is just randomly placing him.
you right and all but nonito is the guy they think highly of.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
the Ring recognize skill, thats why he's top 5 p4p.
So why not rate Yuriorkis Gamboa in the top 10 then ? or Juan Manuel Lopez ETC ? thats biased bro, its not just to do with skill, its about the whole package, resume, longevity, opponents, titles, ETC.
No way Nonito Donaire is P4P top 5, Chad Dawson is just as skilled. And has beaten better opponents yet he is only 8, im not dissing Nonito Donaire. I love watching him fight, his last KO was just fantastic to watch.
But his ranking makes no sense what so ever, its like the Ring Magazine is just randomly placing him.
In truth if we are going on opponent level IMO Dawson does not deserve his spot either...Since Adamek he has fought Epifano Mendoza who had wins over questionable opp at best and the next 2 fights after Dawson..
Jesus Ruiz....then spent the next 2 years fighting Tarver and Johnson....
Not exactly P4P material there is it?...Not saying Dawson is not a top level fighter but if we are going to factor in opp then that should effect him as well
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
the Ring recognize skill, thats why he's top 5 p4p.
So why not rate Yuriorkis Gamboa in the top 10 then ? or Juan Manuel Lopez ETC ? thats biased bro, its not just to do with skill, its about the whole package, resume, longevity, opponents, titles, ETC.
No way Nonito Donaire is P4P top 5, Chad Dawson is just as skilled. And has beaten better opponents yet he is only 8, im not dissing Nonito Donaire. I love watching him fight, his last KO was just fantastic to watch.
But his ranking makes no sense what so ever, its like the Ring Magazine is just randomly placing him.
In truth if we are going on opponent level IMO Dawson does not deserve his spot either...Since Adamek he has fought Epifano Mendoza who had wins over questionable opp at best and the next 2 fights after Dawson..
Jesus Ruiz....then spent the next 2 years fighting Tarver and Johnson....
Not exactly P4P material there is it?...Not saying Dawson is not a top level fighter but if we are going to factor in opp then that should effect him as well
Well take into consideration that we are talking about the Ring's p4p list, Tarver and Johnson were both ring ranked fighters, so you could also say he's only fought ranked fighters over the last two years as well.
I really hold the Vargas fight against Donaire. The equivalent of that would be Chad Dawson fighting DeAndre Latimore quite literally.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
the Ring recognize skill, thats why he's top 5 p4p.
So why not rate Yuriorkis Gamboa in the top 10 then ? or Juan Manuel Lopez ETC ? thats biased bro, its not just to do with skill, its about the whole package, resume, longevity, opponents, titles, ETC.
No way Nonito Donaire is P4P top 5, Chad Dawson is just as skilled. And has beaten better opponents yet he is only 8, im not dissing Nonito Donaire. I love watching him fight, his last KO was just fantastic to watch.
But his ranking makes no sense what so ever, its like the Ring Magazine is just randomly placing him.
In truth if we are going on opponent level IMO Dawson does not deserve his spot either...Since Adamek he has fought Epifano Mendoza who had wins over questionable opp at best and the next 2 fights after Dawson..
Jesus Ruiz....then spent the next 2 years fighting Tarver and Johnson....
Not exactly P4P material there is it?...Not saying Dawson is not a top level fighter but if we are going to factor in opp then that should effect him as well
Actually I think going 5-0 in 5 fights against Tarver, Johnson and Adamek is very commendable.
There is no question that all three were the best opposition available to him at the time, and Tarver was a reigning world champ the first time they met.
For me Pavlik, Williams, Ward, Guzman, Bradley and even Carl Froch have better resumes than Nonito Donaire.
Froch has wins over Pascal, Taylor and Dirrell, controversial or not, that smokes Donaire's resume.
Why did Jospeh Agbeko not get in the p4p rankings when he beat Donaire more recently?
I know Donaire won by knockout, but a huge percentage of upset wins are by KO as the unfancied fighter has less chance of outboxing the better fighter over 12 rounds.
I'm not suggesting that is the case with Vic and Donaire, but there is no reason to go overboard based on a KO win.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
So why not rate Yuriorkis Gamboa in the top 10 then ? or Juan Manuel Lopez ETC ? thats biased bro, its not just to do with skill, its about the whole package, resume, longevity, opponents, titles, ETC.
No way Nonito Donaire is P4P top 5, Chad Dawson is just as skilled. And has beaten better opponents yet he is only 8, im not dissing Nonito Donaire. I love watching him fight, his last KO was just fantastic to watch.
But his ranking makes no sense what so ever, its like the Ring Magazine is just randomly placing him.
In truth if we are going on opponent level IMO Dawson does not deserve his spot either...Since Adamek he has fought Epifano Mendoza who had wins over questionable opp at best and the next 2 fights after Dawson..
Jesus Ruiz....then spent the next 2 years fighting Tarver and Johnson....
Not exactly P4P material there is it?...Not saying Dawson is not a top level fighter but if we are going to factor in opp then that should effect him as well
Well take into consideration that we are talking about the Ring's p4p list, Tarver and Johnson were both ring ranked fighters, so you could also say he's only fought ranked fighters over the last two years as well.
I really hold the Vargas fight against Donaire. The equivalent of that would be Chad Dawson fighting DeAndre Latimore quite literally.
I am going to have to go back and check but I don't think Tarver and Johnson were P4P when they fought Dawson...
Let me ask this...
Would you have held it against DLH if he beat Pacquiao?
Manny Jumped 2 weight classes to fight dlh LW to WW
DLH....5' 10 1/2" w 73" reach
Manny..5' 6 1/2" w 67" reach
DLH had a 4 inch height and 6 inch reach advantage
Donaire is 5' 6" w 68" reach
Vargas is 5' 6" w 63" reach
So Donaire fought a guy same height who was coming up 2 weight classes and had a 5 inch reach advantage
Oscar fought a guy 4 inches shorter and had a 6 inch reach advantage who was moving up 2 weight classes and had only 1 fight in the weight class he jumped up from
So if DLH beat Pac would that not be just as bad in fact worse because he had a much more sizable advantage...But DLH lost so it is OK?
Kind of a catch 22 no?
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
In truth if we are going on opponent level IMO Dawson does not deserve his spot either...Since Adamek he has fought Epifano Mendoza who had wins over questionable opp at best and the next 2 fights after Dawson..
Jesus Ruiz....then spent the next 2 years fighting Tarver and Johnson....
Not exactly P4P material there is it?...Not saying Dawson is not a top level fighter but if we are going to factor in opp then that should effect him as well
Well take into consideration that we are talking about the Ring's p4p list, Tarver and Johnson were both ring ranked fighters, so you could also say he's only fought ranked fighters over the last two years as well.
I really hold the Vargas fight against Donaire. The equivalent of that would be Chad Dawson fighting DeAndre Latimore quite literally.
I am going to have to go back and check but I don't think Tarver and Johnson were P4P when they fought Dawson...
Let me ask this...
Would you have held it against DLH if he beat Pacquiao?
Manny Jumped 2 weight classes to fight dlh LW to WW
DLH....5' 10 1/2" w 73" reach
Manny..5' 6 1/2" w 67" reach
DLH had a 4 inch height and 6 inch reach advantage
Donaire is 5' 6" w 68" reach
Vargas is 5' 6" w 63" reach
So Donaire fought a guy same height who was coming up 2 weight classes and had a 5 inch reach advantage
Oscar fought a guy 4 inches shorter and had a 6 inch reach advantage who was moving up 2 weight classes and had only 1 fight in the weight class he jumped up from
So if DLH beat Pac would that not be just as bad in fact worse because he had a much more sizable advantage...But DLH lost so it is OK?
Kind of a catch 22 no?
No not at all a catch 22 it was three weight classes for Vargas vs. Donaire (from Straw to Super Fly) and unless you are saying Vargas is the equivalent skill level of Pacquiao (#1 p4p), which he wasn't even rated by the ring at 105, and Donaire was as past it as ODLH it's apples to oranges. Certainly you will admit if ODLH would have beaten Pac, the issue of weight, reach etc. would have been brought up and Pac's loss would have been justified as a condition of those factors, of course it would put ODLH on the ring's p4p rankings not because he beat a much smaller man, but because he beat #1 p4p fighter in the world based on their own ranking system. I wasn't saying p4p rated in regards to Tarver and Johnson, I was saying Ring rated as in rated at light heavyweight Tarver and Johnson were both definately in the top 4 at light heavyweight each time Dawson fought them and the First time Dawson fought Tarver he was the #1 guy at 175.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
In truth if we are going on opponent level IMO Dawson does not deserve his spot either...Since Adamek he has fought Epifano Mendoza who had wins over questionable opp at best and the next 2 fights after Dawson..
Jesus Ruiz....then spent the next 2 years fighting Tarver and Johnson....
Not exactly P4P material there is it?...Not saying Dawson is not a top level fighter but if we are going to factor in opp then that should effect him as well
Well take into consideration that we are talking about the Ring's p4p list, Tarver and Johnson were both ring ranked fighters, so you could also say he's only fought ranked fighters over the last two years as well.
I really hold the Vargas fight against Donaire. The equivalent of that would be Chad Dawson fighting DeAndre Latimore quite literally.
I am going to have to go back and check but I don't think Tarver and Johnson were P4P when they fought Dawson...
Let me ask this...
Would you have held it against DLH if he beat Pacquiao?
Manny Jumped 2 weight classes to fight dlh LW to WW
DLH....5' 10 1/2" w 73" reach
Manny..5' 6 1/2" w 67" reach
DLH had a 4 inch height and 6 inch reach advantage
Donaire is 5' 6" w 68" reach
Vargas is 5' 6" w 63" reach
So Donaire fought a guy same height who was coming up 2 weight classes and had a 5 inch reach advantage
Oscar fought a guy 4 inches shorter and had a 6 inch reach advantage who was moving up 2 weight classes and had only 1 fight in the weight class he jumped up from
So if DLH beat Pac would that not be just as bad in fact worse because he had a much more sizable advantage...But DLH lost so it is OK?
Kind of a catch 22 no?
Come on Daxx you can't be serious. First of all Manny is a legend at the lower weights, a p4p great and was an emerging superstar of world boxing. Can you even name the straweight that Nonito Donaire fought? What Hall of Famers had he beaten on the way to that showdown with Donaire? How many world titles had he won (I can tell you, the same as EVERY Donaire oponent exluding Vic - ZERO!!! :D )
And if Oscar had have beaten Manny I can guarantee the Ring wouldn't have put him at number 6 p4p as they would have just said he was expected to win.
Donaire is the least deserving p4p entrant in the last decade.
Can you name ANY other fighter EVER who has been on the p4p top 10 for 3 years having fought NO, NONE, ZERO, NOT A SINGLE world champ past or present in that time? :p
His record is appalling. They dropped Hopkins down a place for beating an all time great in Roy Jones. Prior to that he fought Pavlik, Calzaghe, Tarver and Winky, all great fighters, at least two Hall of Famers.
Who has Donaire fought since Darchinyan? It's a scandal that he is in the top 10 at all to be above BHop is plain retarded.
He might have skills, but Juan Guzman is slicker and I sure as hell wouldn't want him in the top 10.
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Well take into consideration that we are talking about the Ring's p4p list, Tarver and Johnson were both ring ranked fighters, so you could also say he's only fought ranked fighters over the last two years as well.
I really hold the Vargas fight against Donaire. The equivalent of that would be Chad Dawson fighting DeAndre Latimore quite literally.
I am going to have to go back and check but I don't think Tarver and Johnson were P4P when they fought Dawson...
Let me ask this...
Would you have held it against DLH if he beat Pacquiao?
Manny Jumped 2 weight classes to fight dlh LW to WW
DLH....5' 10 1/2" w 73" reach
Manny..5' 6 1/2" w 67" reach
DLH had a 4 inch height and 6 inch reach advantage
Donaire is 5' 6" w 68" reach
Vargas is 5' 6" w 63" reach
So Donaire fought a guy same height who was coming up 2 weight classes and had a 5 inch reach advantage
Oscar fought a guy 4 inches shorter and had a 6 inch reach advantage who was moving up 2 weight classes and had only 1 fight in the weight class he jumped up from
So if DLH beat Pac would that not be just as bad in fact worse because he had a much more sizable advantage...But DLH lost so it is OK?
Kind of a catch 22 no?
No not at all a catch 22 it was three weight classes for Vargas vs. Donaire (from Straw to Super Fly) and unless you are saying Vargas is the equivalent skill level of Pacquiao (#1 p4p), which he wasn't even rated by the ring at 105, and Donaire was as past it as ODLH it's apples to oranges. Certainly you will admit if ODLH would have beaten Pac, the issue of weight, reach etc. would have been brought up and Pac's loss would have been justified as a condition of those factors, of course it would put ODLH on the ring's p4p rankings not because he beat a much smaller man, but because he beat #1 p4p fighter in the world based on their own ranking system. I wasn't saying p4p rated in regards to Tarver and Johnson, I was saying Ring rated as in rated at light heavyweight Tarver and Johnson were both definately in the top 4 at light heavyweight each time Dawson fought them and the First time Dawson fought Tarver he was the #1 guy at 175.
No we can't sit a go with well Pacquiao was a better fighter and IF DLH beat Manny
Fact is it was the same situation and it did not work out the way DLH intended...
Well size part...Manny had 1 fight at LW are we going to seriously act as if he was then a full blown LW? So tbh he went from SFW to WW...3 weight classes...
What abt the size difference...DLH had a hell of a lot of size over Manny when compared to that of Donaire to Vargas...Donaire had a 5 inch reach adv he weighed 115 Vargas 114.......
So it would have been OK if Manny had lost because of DLH being so much bigger but it is a travesty because Donaire won when he had only a 5 inch reach adv...Hell how many heavies have that luxury over other heavies?
Pacquiao was a P4P ranked fighter but Vargas is a Former WBO champion and a top 10 MIN weight in the world...If he was P4P and fought Donaire it would have been different?
How?...You can not blast one guy for something he did but make excuses for another...
If a guy commits a crime and gets caught he is a criminal...If another guy commits the same crime and gets away with it...He is a criminal just one who got away with it...
DLH and Donaire are guilty of the same crime....DLH just didn't get away with it...
Yet on another note it was OK for PBF to beat up on a smaller Marquez?
Again that was different why? Because Marquez was P4P?...not so....
There are weight classes for a reason...
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
you guys lost me with the odlh/ pac and vargas/donaire comparison, irrelevant aint it?
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Re: What the fuck is it with the Ring and Nonito Donaire?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Well take into consideration that we are talking about the Ring's p4p list, Tarver and Johnson were both ring ranked fighters, so you could also say he's only fought ranked fighters over the last two years as well.
I really hold the Vargas fight against Donaire. The equivalent of that would be Chad Dawson fighting DeAndre Latimore quite literally.
I am going to have to go back and check but I don't think Tarver and Johnson were P4P when they fought Dawson...
Let me ask this...
Would you have held it against DLH if he beat Pacquiao?
Manny Jumped 2 weight classes to fight dlh LW to WW
DLH....5' 10 1/2" w 73" reach
Manny..5' 6 1/2" w 67" reach
DLH had a 4 inch height and 6 inch reach advantage
Donaire is 5' 6" w 68" reach
Vargas is 5' 6" w 63" reach
So Donaire fought a guy same height who was coming up 2 weight classes and had a 5 inch reach advantage
Oscar fought a guy 4 inches shorter and had a 6 inch reach advantage who was moving up 2 weight classes and had only 1 fight in the weight class he jumped up from
So if DLH beat Pac would that not be just as bad in fact worse because he had a much more sizable advantage...But DLH lost so it is OK?
Kind of a catch 22 no?
Come on Daxx you can't be serious. First of all Manny is a legend at the lower weights, a p4p great and was an emerging superstar of world boxing. Can you even name the straweight that Nonito Donaire fought? What Hall of Famers had he beaten on the way to that showdown with Donaire? How many world titles had he won (I can tell you, the same as EVERY Donaire oponent exluding Vic - ZERO!!! :D )
And if Oscar had have beaten Manny I can guarantee the Ring wouldn't have put him at number 6 p4p as they would have just said he was expected to win.
Donaire is the least deserving p4p entrant in the last decade.
Can you name ANY other fighter EVER who has been on the p4p top 10 for 3 years having fought NO, NONE, ZERO, NOT A SINGLE world champ past or present in that time? :p
His record is appalling. They dropped Hopkins down a place for beating an all time great in Roy Jones. Prior to that he fought Pavlik, Calzaghe, Tarver and Winky, all great fighters, at least two Hall of Famers.
Who has Donaire fought since Darchinyan? It's a scandal that he is in the top 10 at all to be above BHop is plain retarded.
He might have skills, but Juan Guzman is slicker and I sure as hell wouldn't want him in the top 10.
I NEVER said it was right OR it was OK or did I agree he deserves the ranking...I am POSITIVE I said CLEARLY in another post here that..
"He has the skills to make the spot but not the opp to deserve the ranking"
But if we are going to BLAST a guy for fighting smaller men then there are other BIGGER NAMES that have done the same thing but YOU CAN NOT say it was OK for them because the other guys they fought were the top of the game at their weight classes....even if on the P4P list....
Like I said...JMM was BEATEN UP..AND THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO DESCRIBE IT BUT BEATEN UP...By Juan Diaz..He sat on the ropes abused...he certainly has not fought that way his whole career....Diaz fell apart after the cut but until then he was making JMM look old old old....and everyone knows it or do we need to post the fight off youtube?
But him fighting the much bigger Floyd in his next bout was OK...Floyd did nothing wrong either right?...
No he cherry picked a guy who fought Manny and just after he was abused by a younger fighter..Had him jump up 2 weight classes...But thats OK for Floyd but not Donaire....
C'Mon give this shit a fucking rest and fess up....It was wrong for those guys and it was wrong for Donaire but don't act as if Donaire is the anti Christ of boxing for it...But Praise Floyd's brilliant skill set......
Don't act as if it was OK for DLH to do what he did...When he made that fight to get finally a P4P currently ranked fighter on his resume as a W before he retired...It did not work out for him so all is forgiven then?..
Horse Shit!!!!
Hell Vargas was Champion 1 fight prior.
