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If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, sorry)
CTE (the more technical name for being "punchy") is a debilitating condition caused by atrophy in the brain. This causes explosive/irrational behavior, enhanced aggression, extreme paranoia, jealousy, among a host of other things. They've made hugh discoveries over the last few years, and believe that it has lead to the early deaths of numerous former athletes that come from contact sports which involve blows to the head. Many of these athletes showed huge changes in their personalities, hurt loved ones and killed themselves.
Obviously the most blaring incident in recent memory is Chris Benoit. Most people jumped to the conclusion that it was steroids or drugs that caused his behavior, but it turned out that it was caused by the onset of CTE due to the many blows to the head he took over the years.
I'm aware that there is no proof that Valero suffered from CTE, and I'm aware that people murder their wives and others every day without suffering from CTE. I also know about Valero's drug use. But to dismiss Valero as a strong candidate for CTE would be foolish IMO, considering he has fought his full 8 or 9 year pro career already with brain damage from the motorcycle accident.
So hypothetically speaking, if it was shown that the probable cause of these actions was the onset of severe brain atrophy, does boxing need to start tightening its bootlaces and up'ing the regulations against those who are at higher risk?
I remember a short time ago Barry Mcguinan came forward and publicly stated that Edwin Valero should not be licensed to box, due to his condition. The reactions I read were virtually unanimous, that Barry should shut up and mind his own business, that Valero had every right to fight if he wanted to. Would it change peoples' opinions if this incident was shown to be caused by brain damage from Valero's ring exploits?
Its kinda the same thing with Holyfield. They continue to license this near-50 year old legend because he can still draw a buck, and justify it with "well it should be his choice". But really don't think about him or his loved ones, like his wife who I believe took a beating from Holyfield recently because she wanted to turn the heat up in their house because she was cold.
Sorry if this is too long, I'm just kinda venting. No one knows what caused theses events and probably never will. But Pugilistic dementia is still a scary reality. Like most boxing fans I genuinly care about the warriors who put their health and lives on the line for our entertainment and wish them all the best. Its just worrysome to think of the realities of taking all those blows to the head for a living, and the possibility of these "lethal weapon's" becoming a danger to themselves and to society.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
I think it's a legitimate argument and a valid point.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
well iono about his last couple of fights, but how much damage could he have gotten if his first 18 fights ended in the first round.
i think most of the brain damages def came from that accident
what are the affects of CTE?
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
I haven't seen this thread before I wrote in the other one, I will simply copy/paste my text here:
Valero doesn't deserve much sympathy for killing his wife but what makes me wonder is all the head trauma he had... I am not saying that it is automatically the cause of his behaviors but living closely to somebody who has had a bad head trauma himself, I can assure that it can totally change the character of somebody in the nick of time. Cerebral lesions are a , believe me. IF he did drink and that it did cause even more problems, it totally makes sense as well as cerebral lesions are strengthening the reactions and confusion that somebody would normally have. It would be interesting to know how he was before his brain lesions and after as well as his reaction to alcohol before and after the incident.
Actually, the trauma thing makes a LOT of sense, not saying that it's the cause of his behaviors but it definitely can be one of the factor. My brother for one has his personality severely modified by his accident, now after almost 10 years and a bit of medication I see a lot more the "old J.P" again but his anxiety and nervousness never got away though. HE used to be a lot violent verbally and physically intimidating after his trauma for a couple of years and after some therapy and after I kind of "sat" him a couple of time it went back to normal but it has been the hell of a job and the meanest of times.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
There are a lot, burst of anger, extra aggressivity, memory problems, frequent headaches, epilepsy, unexpected mood swings, chronic tiredness, sleep troubles, difficulty to speak normally, problems of balance, depends from people to people and from trauma to trauma.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Not sure...I mean I know he had problems from his accident and the head plate and all but don't know if or how much worse boxing had made it...Are they doing an autopsy?
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Not sure...I mean I know he had problems from his accident and the head plate and all but don't know if or how much worse boxing had made it...Are they doing an autopsy?
You just need a good head trauma to see your personality seriously bust your personality, the accident could solely be the cause of it and perhaps boxing did made it worst but just with that accident it could scientifically be explainable.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Not sure...I mean I know he had problems from his accident and the head plate and all but don't know if or how much worse boxing had made it...Are they doing an autopsy?
You just need a good head trauma to see your personality seriously bust your personality, the accident could solely be the cause of it and perhaps boxing did made it worst but just with that accident it could scientifically be explainable.
I understand that... what I was trying to say I guess is not sure what he was like before rhe accident after and how much did things seem to change while boxing...
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Its a great point you have there.
Strange isnt it though how many head trauma cases work the reverse and they are peaceful loving people and some go the opposite way into rage.
Same with drug use, same with most traumas I suppose.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Glad to see there is some real discussion taking place on this board. What you are all saying is valid especially considering three main points:
1. What was the degree of his head injury--that kept him from fighting in the US for so long?
2. What were the effects of the severe headbutt/gash he took in his last fight (please see this horrendous cut)?
3. Did that play into the effects of the alcohol (and/or drugs) he may have been using?
The problem is this... we would never get a straight answer in the US or the UK, so don't look for on from Chaveland.
(which leads to the other thread... also see "Valero's not Dead")
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Not sure...I mean I know he had problems from his accident and the head plate and all but don't know if or how much worse boxing had made it...Are they doing an autopsy?
You just need a good head trauma to see your personality seriously bust your personality, the accident could solely be the cause of it and perhaps boxing did made it worst but just with that accident it could scientifically be explainable.
Pardon me... it was an elbow, not a headbutt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aScE-y__Cbc
How significant was this injury, considering he fought on?
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ArawakWarria
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Not sure...I mean I know he had problems from his accident and the head plate and all but don't know if or how much worse boxing had made it...Are they doing an autopsy?
You just need a good head trauma to see your personality seriously bust your personality, the accident could solely be the cause of it and perhaps boxing did made it worst but just with that accident it could scientifically be explainable.
Pardon me... it was an elbow, not a headbutt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aScE-y__Cbc
How significant was this injury, considering he fought on?
It is difficult to say because many consequences are shown up quite late after the injury, it really depends. Personally, I don't think that this injury did trigger the whole, I think more that it's the accident he had in 2002 and where they had to put a metal plate in his head or something like that that could have been the major cause of his behaviors, the shot to the heads sustained subsequently not helping the cause, obviously.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ArawakWarria
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
You just need a good head trauma to see your personality seriously bust your personality, the accident could solely be the cause of it and perhaps boxing did made it worst but just with that accident it could scientifically be explainable.
Pardon me... it was an elbow, not a headbutt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aScE-y__CbcHow significant was this injury, considering he fought on?
It is difficult to say because many consequences are shown up quite late after the injury, it really depends. Personally, I don't think that this injury did trigger the whole, I think more that it's the accident he had in 2002 and where they had to put a metal plate in his head or something like that that could have been the major cause of his behaviors, the shot to the heads sustained subsequently not helping the cause, obviously.
Well, clearly things went from bad to worse not long after this fight. It makes you wonder... they stole Joe Mesi's career from him sighting that they were doing it 'for the fighter's safety.' So which way does the cradle rock for whom?
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
There are a lot, burst of anger, extra aggressivity, memory problems, frequent headaches, epilepsy, unexpected mood swings, chronic tiredness, sleep troubles, difficulty to speak normally, problems of balance, depends from people to people and from trauma to trauma.
I have it. :shocking:
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Honestly it sounds like Gulf War Syndrome.
Just about anyone whose been in a boxing ring could claim to have it. If they wanted to have it for some reason. I can't see why they would want it unless it was a criminal defense.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
You could take a poll of neurologists and probably more 90% would ban all contact sports where there are blows to the head.
No Strong Evidence Linking Amateur Boxing With Long-term Brain Injury, Study Suggests
I usually take studies from Universities with a grain of salt. One needs to understand they are usually motivated by money. i.e. The conclusions will bring alarming results to light but will also have inconclusive results. Thus requiring more studies and additional grant funding for additional studies.
Anything that makes the sports safer for the athletes is worth implementing but you should keep in mind that some of it will change the sport.
Making informed decisions rather than making knee jerk decision is usually a more prudent course of action.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Now you gotta look at his history of head trauma. Nobody in the US would give this guy the ok, he had bleeding in his brain. Texas finally did...maybe people will start taking head injuries more seriously. This type of thing just makes me not want to watch boxing anymore.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
This type of thing just makes me not want to watch boxing anymore.
You've cracked up.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BoxingGorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
This type of thing just makes me not want to watch boxing anymore.
You've cracked up.
Yeah, boxing is too brutal for me now, I'll stick to watching Spartacus: Blood and Sand.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ArawakWarria
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ArawakWarria
It is difficult to say because many consequences are shown up quite late after the injury, it really depends. Personally, I don't think that this injury did trigger the whole, I think more that it's the accident he had in 2002 and where they had to put a metal plate in his head or something like that that could have been the major cause of his behaviors, the shot to the heads sustained subsequently not helping the cause, obviously.
Well, clearly things went from bad to worse not long after this fight. It makes you wonder... they stole Joe Mesi's career from him sighting that they were doing it 'for the fighter's safety.' So which way does the cradle rock for whom?
Before that, there was already some alarming signs: it was reported that already in 2007 he had violent tendencies, due to the accident or not? Hard to say but I've found that on Yahoo news and to me, it could easily be an indicator or a significant turning point:
On February 5, 2001, Valero was involved in a severe motorcycle accident in which he wasn't wearing a helmet. He fractured his skull and had surgery to remove a blood clot. This injury was sustained prior to him launching his pro career, and it created roadblocks to major bodies sanctioning his fights. Valero claimed that his Venezuelan doctor cleared him to fight on January 17, 2002, and he turned pro that July with a first-round KO.
Valero appeared to hit the jackpot when he was signed after his 12th pro fight by Golden Boy Promotions. Valero was scheduled to appear on HBO's Boxing After Dark, but in January 2004, he failed an MRI due to brain scan irregularities in New York and thus was not allowed to fight in the United States. As a result, the fight did not take place. He continued to fight outside the US and in March 25, 2008, Valero was cleared to box in the state of Texas."
Boxer Valero kills himself in jail, police say - Yahoo! News
The Article also says that Valero was suffering from depression, alcohol and cocaine dependency, which is a damn explosive cocktail, especially if your brain doesn't respond as it should.
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Re: If this Valero situation was caused by CTE, does boxing need to do more?(long, so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
CTE (the more technical name for being "punchy") is a debilitating condition caused by atrophy in the brain. This causes explosive/irrational behavior, enhanced aggression, extreme paranoia, jealousy, among a host of other things. They've made hugh discoveries over the last few years, and believe that it has lead to the early deaths of numerous former athletes that come from contact sports which involve blows to the head. Many of these athletes showed huge changes in their personalities, hurt loved ones and killed themselves.
Obviously the most blaring incident in recent memory is Chris Benoit. Most people jumped to the conclusion that it was steroids or drugs that caused his behavior, but it turned out that it was caused by the onset of CTE due to the many blows to the head he took over the years.
I'm aware that there is no proof that Valero suffered from CTE, and I'm aware that people murder their wives and others every day without suffering from CTE. I also know about Valero's drug use. But to dismiss Valero as a strong candidate for CTE would be foolish IMO, considering he has fought his full 8 or 9 year pro career already with brain damage from the motorcycle accident.
So hypothetically speaking, if it was shown that the probable cause of these actions was the onset of severe brain atrophy, does boxing need to start tightening its bootlaces and up'ing the regulations against those who are at higher risk?
I remember a short time ago Barry Mcguinan came forward and publicly stated that Edwin Valero should not be licensed to box, due to his condition. The reactions I read were virtually unanimous, that Barry should shut up and mind his own business, that Valero had every right to fight if he wanted to. Would it change peoples' opinions if this incident was shown to be caused by brain damage from Valero's ring exploits?
Its kinda the same thing with Holyfield. They continue to license this near-50 year old legend because he can still draw a buck, and justify it with "well it should be his choice". But really don't think about him or his loved ones, like his wife who I believe took a beating from Holyfield recently because she wanted to turn the heat up in their house because she was cold.
Sorry if this is too long, I'm just kinda venting. No one knows what caused theses events and probably never will. But Pugilistic dementia is still a scary reality. Like most boxing fans I genuinly care about the warriors who put their health and lives on the line for our entertainment and wish them all the best. Its just worrysome to think of the realities of taking all those blows to the head for a living, and the possibility of these "lethal weapon's" becoming a danger to themselves and to society.
Good post and it makes a lot of sense. I guess an autopsy will give us a bit more information. I'm still in shock to be honest.
