I just watched a 130 pound fight where one of the guys weighed in at 130 the night before the fight but then came into the ring at 147. Could this be a sign that he was over trained or not?
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I just watched a 130 pound fight where one of the guys weighed in at 130 the night before the fight but then came into the ring at 147. Could this be a sign that he was over trained or not?
yes, that's a definite sign of a fighter being weight drained. imo, fighters who put on alot of weight after the weigh-in are either not in great shape to begin with and/or, have a distinct advantage by putting on all that weight. boxing should make it mandatory that fighters cannot put on more than 10-12 lbs. after the weigh-in. that way it would be fairer for everyone involved.
there's the weight gain, although sometimes it's due to lack of dedication, stamina problems in a fighter who would usually have at least decent stamina, very low punch output, pushed punches, all of the above are clear signs, there are also cases in which a fighter looks sickly (Morales in the last Pacquiao fight, and others)
Yeah the fighter in the fight I was watching displayed those signs. Albeit he was fighting a very good opponent but he too was a good fighter. There was even a short history leading up to the fight where were discussing how one fighter wasn't going to fight the other guy at 135 and demanded that it be at 130.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
What's funny is that with all the hoopla about draining fighters, this particular fighter earned his most significant victory over a fighter that in hindsight was clearly weight drained. I mean he looked like OSCAR in the pac fight...
What fight was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherYeah the fighter in the fight I was watching displayed those signs. Albeit he was fighting a very good opponent but he too was a good fighter. There was even a short history leading up to the fight where were discussing how one fighter wasn't going to fight the other guy at 135 and demanded that it be at 130.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
What's funny is that with all the hoopla about draining fighters, this particular fighter earned his most significant victory over a fighter that in hindsight was clearly weight drained. I mean he looked like OSCAR in the pac fight...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHWhat fight was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherYeah the fighter in the fight I was watching displayed those signs. Albeit he was fighting a very good opponent but he too was a good fighter. There was even a short history leading up to the fight where were discussing how one fighter wasn't going to fight the other guy at 135 and demanded that it be at 130.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
What's funny is that with all the hoopla about draining fighters, this particular fighter earned his most significant victory over a fighter that in hindsight was clearly weight drained. I mean he looked like OSCAR in the pac fight...
Mayweather-Corrales
He's talking about Mayweather-Corrales.
Yes, Diego was weight drained, but he would've been dominated by Floyd that night no matter what the weight was.
That's the fight I thought you were referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHWhat fight was it?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherYeah the fighter in the fight I was watching displayed those signs. Albeit he was fighting a very good opponent but he too was a good fighter. There was even a short history leading up to the fight where were discussing how one fighter wasn't going to fight the other guy at 135 and demanded that it be at 130.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
What's funny is that with all the hoopla about draining fighters, this particular fighter earned his most significant victory over a fighter that in hindsight was clearly weight drained. I mean he looked like OSCAR in the pac fight...
Mayweather-Corrales
Possibly, but not 5 KDs worth...and the diego that fough JLC would have been much more game....Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
I will admit that I don't look at a lot of weigh-ins but I do remember the photos from Morales - Pacquiao 3 and Morales looked like death. I knew right there that the fight leaning in Pac's favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
i went to the 3rd morales/pacquiao fight and morales did look like he was about to drop dead from being weight drained. he also looked weight drained for their 2nd fight as well.
I'll never forget the state of oscar at the Pac weigh in, he looked like a poverty stricken pauper. Looked so ill.
Amazingly the two fights he lost...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
yeah, isn't that something, morales being weight drained for those two fights. just goes to show everyone that his body was no longer responding like before and he was near the end of fighting as a contender.
Ricky Hatton was weight drain at 140 against the Pacman, even though he came in at 140, that's what I heard from his fans. The theory was that Hatton likes to balloon to 190 pounds between bouts and it took a lot of energy out of him to get back to 140. Anyways weight drain or not Hatton wasn't going to win even if he was allowed to come in at 147 and Pacquiao at 140.
The talent and skill level between the 2 is huge.
Was he weight drained against raheem?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
i thought Morales looked ok (weight-wise) in the rematch against Pacquiao, but he looked completely weight drained in the 3rd fight, as for Raheem, he didn't look weight drained at all he just looked like if he was slippingQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherWas he weight drained against raheem?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
No, he was just shot.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherWas he weight drained against raheem?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
LOL...i'll take that one...so is what I'm getting is that PAC only beat Morrales because he was either shot or weight drained? Yet he blew through Barrera twice, the same guy that arguably beat morrales three times?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo, he was just shot.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherWas he weight drained against raheem?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
First let me say that I agree with u regarding Pac beating Morales regardless of the weight issues. I do believe that the 3rd fight would have been much more competitve if he didn't kill himself making weight. Also the argument about Pac beating Barrera so he would've beat Morales doesn't hold because styles make fights. Junior Jones anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLOL...i'll take that one...so is what I'm getting is that PAC only beat Morrales because he was either shot or weight drained? Yet he blew through Barrera twice, the same guy that arguably beat morrales three times?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo, he was just shot.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherWas he weight drained against raheem?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
exactly, lets not forget that Morales also beat Pacquiao around in his last decent showing, it's not a coincidence that every performance afterwards (including Raheem) has been horrible since after his win against PacquiaoQuote:
Originally Posted by chinchekkedFirst let me say that I agree with u regarding Pac beating Morales regardless of the weight issues. I do believe that the 3rd fight would have been much more competitve if he didn't kill himself making weight. Also the argument about Pac beating Barrera so he would've beat Morales doesn't hold because styles make fights. Junior Jones anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLOL...i'll take that one...so is what I'm getting is that PAC only beat Morrales because he was either shot or weight drained? Yet he blew through Barrera twice, the same guy that arguably beat morrales three times?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo, he was just shot.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherWas he weight drained against raheem?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
IMO Barrera and Morales have gone 1-1-1 each, hell Morales did better against Pacquiao in the 2nd fight than Barrera ever did against Manny
Yeah thats true..but what I think really happened in the raheem fight was Morrales was exposed..his style was. Roach slowed manny down, meaning he was more patient and allowed the kayo to come to him and it was very evident, much like Raheem didn't engage into a brawl like barrera-morrales. Pac had clearly improved in his boxing ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinchekkedFirst let me say that I agree with u regarding Pac beating Morales regardless of the weight issues. I do believe that the 3rd fight would have been much more competitve if he didn't kill himself making weight. Also the argument about Pac beating Barrera so he would've beat Morales doesn't hold because styles make fights. Junior Jones anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLOL...i'll take that one...so is what I'm getting is that PAC only beat Morrales because he was either shot or weight drained? Yet he blew through Barrera twice, the same guy that arguably beat morrales three times?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo, he was just shot.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherWas he weight drained against raheem?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
I think morrales was great, but pac would have beaten him anyhow with or without the raheem fight or the weight.
Morales never really stepped on the gas against Raheem, IMO due to the fact that his timing was already starting to slide, the only round that he chose to turn it on (the 11th) he dropped Raheem (although it wasn't counted), Morales depended on 2 things his entire career, his chin and his ability to impose his offense and pressure you to back up, he showed flashes of this against Raheem in the 11th, and he did relatively well against Pacquiao in the rematch, he was actually only behind by a point or two, his output dropped and it wasn't due to Pacquiao wearing him down, and it was pretty evident from the Raheem fight onwards that Morales' punch resistance wasn't what it used to beQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherYeah thats true..but what I think really happened in the raheem fight was Morrales was exposed..his style was. Roach slowed manny down, meaning he was more patient and allowed the kayo to come to him and it was very evident, much like Raheem didn't engage into a brawl like barrera-morrales. Pac had clearly improved in his boxing ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinchekkedFirst let me say that I agree with u regarding Pac beating Morales regardless of the weight issues. I do believe that the 3rd fight would have been much more competitve if he didn't kill himself making weight. Also the argument about Pac beating Barrera so he would've beat Morales doesn't hold because styles make fights. Junior Jones anyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherLOL...i'll take that one...so is what I'm getting is that PAC only beat Morrales because he was either shot or weight drained? Yet he blew through Barrera twice, the same guy that arguably beat morrales three times?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo, he was just shot.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherWas he weight drained against raheem?Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
I think morrales was great, but pac would have beaten him anyhow with or without the raheem fight or the weight.
I think Chatchai Sasakul was weight drained in the Pac fight. Pacquiao just got that Lucky Left for the KO. :D
when morales fought pacquiao (1st time), morales was already slipping badly and past his prime. the raheem loss was a good indicator of that. in the second morales/pacquiao fight, i felt morales was doing great until his legs started tightening up on him. it was also the first time he was without his father (trainer). one of the announcers said that massaging a boxer's legs was the wrong thing to do during a fight because it weakens them.
morales was also coming off a loss to barrera when he faced pacquiao and he still had enough to beat him handily. morales' problem was that he didn't take care of himself in-between fights. he would balloon 30-40 lbs. or more, then kill himself trying to make weight. i believe his career was shortened drastically because of his aggressive style of fighting, his bout with weight issues, and the fact that his body wasn't made to withstand the damage it received due to his aggressive style. he should have adopted barrera's boxing style but that wasn't in his makeup. he was a warrior inside the wrong body.
Sunk cheeks and skin discoloration at the weigh-in.
hahaha. good one man.. and read what the troll wrote.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherAmazingly the two fights he lost...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by milmascaras1
josef,
the only troll is you. but here are the facts, a half-shot morales was able to beat pacquiao and make him cry like a baby. remember that? it's only when he was completely shot and was weakened by the weight loss did he lose to pacquiao. facts are facts buddy!
What surprising is this though, although Pac and Morales had 3 fights, both were not in their primes. Pacquiao was not in his and Morales was leaving his.
bulldog,
true, true! pacquiao was in his physical prime but not boxing prime while the opposite is true for morales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Thats bullshit mate Hatton was on the weight 3 weeks before the fight, the problem was he goes into his camps so early because he has all that weight to shift this time he over trained and peaked to early but like you say Hatton gets battered any weight anytime in his career.
I'd say 17 lbs is an awful lot to put on in 24 or so hours. The weight comes from carbohydrates and water so that's a lot of meals and a lot of fluid to put on.
The thing is, you can't really put a cap on how much weight a fighter is allowed to put on between the weigh in and the fight, as it's detrimental to what you're trying to achieve. If the overall goal is to make the sport safer, limiting a fighter's carbohydrate and water intake isn't safe. It won't prevent fighters from being weight-drained in the first place. If a guy can still make 130 (however difficult it is), he will still do it, regardless of the fact that he may have a restriction on how much weight he can put on between the weigh-in and the fight. Limiting this is dangerous, as it increases the risk of the fighter going into the ring in a poorly nourished and dehydrated state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
What's funny is that the fighters who fought closest to their walking around weight always seem to be in the best shape. Don't understand why they let themselves go between fights..
Corrales could have weighed 175 for that fight and still been knocked down 5 times. It was just a matter of different styles and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherPossibly, but not 5 KDs worth...and the diego that fough JLC would have been much more game....Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Honestly mate i've never understood the mindset of fighters. Full glycogen replenishment takes around 20 hours. Recovering from dehydration is often longer depending on the severity. I don't understand how anybody would want to risk going into a fight in a dehydrated or mal-nutritioned state, just for the sake of being able to fight at a lower weight than what they should be fighting at. It's daft. Being 4 or 5 pounds heavier than your opponent come fight night, shouldn't be the most important thing. There's no real way of telling how beneficial it is other than the presumption that because you're slightly bigger, you'll automatically be stronger. The risk of not being physically right come fight night is one that i wouldn't take.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
What's funny is that the fighters who fought closest to their walking around weight always seem to be in the best shape. Don't understand why they let themselves go between fights..
The other thing i don't really understand is the use of sweat suits in training camp. The actual idea behind them is to increase body temperature thus increasing calorie expenditure, but again the risks far outweigh the benefits. Muscle loss and dehydration again is a big problem.
Nutrition in Boxing also seems light years behind other sports. Put it this way, if most fighters fully replenished their glycogen stores after every training session throughout their careers, and if the fighter actually fought at his natural weight, the weight divisions in Boxing would look so much different.
This is why i was never surprised by Pacquiao's ability to move up in weight. He's probably fighting at his most comfortable weight now, because he's able to nourish himself properly throughout a training camp. This in itself should improve the quality of his training camp, and it should leave him with nothing to worry about come the time of the weigh in. He goes into the fight in the best possible condition and the results speak for themselves.
I remember watching Kostya Tszyu weigh in before the Hatton fight, he looked drawn and gaunt and he failed the first weigh in? Unusual for Tszyu as his fitness regime has been well documented. He just didn't look right and i thought he was in trouble before the fight began, he just didn't have the strength that he usually had and the tables were turned on him. Tszyu was always the bully in his fights, not against Hatton. Weight was an issue, it also didn't help wearing your balls as earrings, but that's another story!