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I actually think Johnson will make the semi's he will beat Green for me if he has no trouble making weight, he does always come in way lower then the 175 lb limit when fighting at Light Heavyweight, but if he takes Kesslers points he has great chance of making the semis.
Edit that, not to sure if Johnson gets Kessler's points. I think Showtime are bringing in someone who they no for sure Green can't ko meaning he has no shot at getting to the Semi's.
The thing is if the last three fights go as most would think or what are the most likely outcomes. I.E Ward beats Dirrell Abraham beats Froch ( to be honest it won't matter what the result between AA and Froch if Ward wins ) the semi's will be the same fights again :confused:
Ward v Dirrell
AA v Froch
This event has become silly so if Green doesnt knock Johnson out and Ward beats Dirrell the semi final line up's will be exactly the same fights again? :-\
What a farce.
I think Johnson and Green are both promoted by DiBella? Adding the super six tag to this fight gives it a bit of pizzazz. Smart move.
You assume that Johnson won't knock Green out - a highly possible outcome - and if he does that puts Dirrell out of the tournament because the current standing are:Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
Ward - 4
Abraham - 3
Froch - 2
Dirrell - 2
Green - 0
Johnson - 0
I'll agree it seems very unlikely that Green KO's Johnson. However, if Johnson KO's Green, he has three points putting him in third place in the standings. Froch gets in because he beat Dirrell. To me a semi-finals that includes Johnson, Ward, Abraham, and Froch sounds pretty damn solid. At least three of those fighters are almost always in fan-friendly fights.
You no what Rant you are right bro, never even thought of that there is a good chance Johnson stopping Green for sure, imagine Johnson v Froch :o
For Johnson to be in the semi's with just one win over Green is beyond pathetic. If the powers that be don't really want Johnson to progress then Ward-Dirrell will be made a draw. Bet on it.
Uhmm and Dirrell should be in the semi-finals with one DQ win over Abraham? Froch with his unimpressive win over Dirrell?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Oh and Green v. Johnson is the opening bout on the Juanma v. Marquez card. That's pretty solid.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratUhmm and Dirrell should be in the semi-finals with one DQ win over Abraham? Froch with his unimpressive win over Dirrell?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratUhmm and Dirrell should be in the semi-finals with one DQ win over Abraham? Froch with his unimpressive win over Dirrell?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I can see what your both saying but Fenster is right really, Green in truth has beat nobody and should never have been in this event in the first place Bika would of sparked him, but this is how it's ended up I suppose and I wouldn't mind the road warrior in there mixing it up.
Dirrell fights Froch, Abraham and Ward - three of the best supermiddles in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratUhmm and Dirrell should be in the semi-finals with one DQ win over Abraham? Froch with his unimpressive win over Dirrell?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Johnson fights Green - a replacement, borderline journeyman not even ranked in the worlds top 10.
You believe that is fair?
See I agree Skel to the extent that Froch, Abraham, and Kessler had more polished resumes than Green did entering the tournament. However, Taylor was coming off big knockout losses to Pavlik and Froch and was really there because he has a big name. It was only a matter of time until he was eliminated. Let's be honest - Dirrell hadn't faced anyone better than Green.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratUhmm and Dirrell should be in the semi-finals with one DQ win over Abraham? Froch with his unimpressive win over Dirrell?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I can see what your both saying but Fenster is right really, Green in truth has beat nobody and should never have been in this event in the first place Bika would of sparked him, but this is how it's ended up I suppose and I wouldn't mind the road warrior in there mixing it up.
Let's take a closer look at Andre Dirrell. It's not like he had a string of solid wins going into the tournament or some great resume. Well, unless you consider Victor Oganov a good win ;). In fact, his best true win is probably over Curtis Stevens :o. In fact, his resume is quite on par with Allan Green's. Pre-tournament, Green's may be a tad better actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterDirrell fights Froch, Abraham and Ward - three of the best supermiddles in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratUhmm and Dirrell should be in the semi-finals with one DQ win over Abraham? Froch with his unimpressive win over Dirrell?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Johnson fights Green - a replacement, borderline journeyman not even ranked in the worlds top 10.
You believe that is fair?
As for his showing in the tournament, I haven't liked it one bit. His fight against Froch was horrible viewing because Dirrell fought scared. And Froch is a guy who generally is a lot of fun to watch. Every other big fight Froch has been in has been a barn burner. See the Taylor, Kessler and Pascal fights. Yet, Dirrell fights Froch and stinks out the joint. Moreover, his only win in the tournament was debatable. It wasn't even a true W, it was a DQ W. Lastly, he has a chance to redeem himself and answering his critics by beating Ward.
Johnson's last three matches have been against Chad Dawson, Yusaf Mack, and Tavoris Cloud. Anyone of those names would be the best names of Dirrell's resume by a long shot. Not to mention, he always brings the fight. I mean imagine a fight between Froch and Johnson. Are you telling me that wouldn't be more fun to watch than Froch's fight with Dirrell?
So no Fenster, I ain't mad at Dirrell's elimination at all.
That has nothing to do with it. Dirrell has fought the guys allotted to him - all among the very best in the world. Johnson was NEVER even part of the super six until this week. He gets the WORST fighter in the comp and should he win goes into the semi's? That is complete and utter bullshit.
Taylor was one of the favourites to win the whole competition, the majority of this forum picked him to beat Abraham. Ward beat Miranda easily whereas Green was beaten easily - stinking the joint out in the process. Dirrell was unbeaten.
Green was a rubbish addition that brought nothing to this comp. The only reason he got in is because Lou Dibella was his and Taylor's promoter.
Agreed, What a crock of shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Just move it to the semi's already. Green and Johnson are not relevant.
The only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - Taylor actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances he's been given to advance and to build his reputation from this tournament? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
My point basically is that at this point Dirrell is unquestionably the least desirable person of the remaining original four. There was always going to be tiers to the competition. Without Bute, it was unavoidable. If there is going to be a bottom tier, I'd prefer to see a fight with Glen Johnson than Andre Dirrell.
Lastly, this fight is in one month. November 6th. It doesn't put off th rest of the tournament very much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
Rant you serious? Mate even at the start of this when Dirrell had not fought anyone, Green had already been exposed by shite banger Miranda, but we now have the luxury of seeing how this event has gone, and I think at least 60/70% of the boxing public would put Dirrells fight with Froch down as robbery of the year last year ( he held his own in there either way with the WBC Champ at the time )
He then won a disputed DQ against AA, who was coming on strong but Dirrell was ahead comfrotably on all cards, now Dirrell has shown he is world class and can hang with the top boys of the division.
Green on the other hand has fought a fringe top ten fighter ( Miranda ) and lost then stepped it up in this event and put on the worst perfromance of 2010 so far for me against Ward, so his two showings at world level have shown he is utter shite and should not of been in this event. Dirrell got in this on the back of hype and an unbeaton record and so far has justified his inclusion, maybe not on style ( not to everyones liking ) but has poved he belongs at world level. Green has shown he belongs headlining espn Wednesday fight nights in some school gym.
I think that is what Fenster is getting at and now Johnson has an unfair advantage of coming in and fighting one fight and the worst fighter by some distance in most peoples book with the chance of making the semi finals?
While everyone else have had to fight three fights against solid opponents, again I agree with Fenster and if I was the likes of Froch,AA and Dirrell I would be kicking up a fuss about this.
I never said Taylor was THE favourite. I said one of the favourites. That's a fact. Ward and Dirrell were both double figure priced outsiders. That's another fact. Super Six boxing odds: Carl Froch confident of defeating Andre DirrellQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
MANY dismissed Froch's late KO over Taylor as a fluke - hence Taylor starting the competition highly favoured. Fact. MANY on this site had him beating Abraham. Fact. http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ournament.html
I don't care if Dirrell has stunk the place out. I don't care if he loses every fight. The fact is he has fought light-years stronger competition than Johnson or Green in the Super Six. So for two replacements to be able to leap frog him in one fight is a complete disgrace. Fact.
I just disagree. You put down Green's resume and I agree, it isn't very impressive, there really isn'y much to argue about there, but Dirrell hadn't done anything to deserve the super six either . He was included because they needed another american. Dirrell didn't even have a Miranda-level opponent on his resume before the super six. And now what does he have, a DQ win over Abraham? He held his own against Froch? Really? He ran from Froch all night. I'm not sure how that is holding his own against top competition. Plus it was a horrible display of fighting. It was not fun to watch at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
Rant you serious? Mate even at the start of this when Dirrell had not fought anyone, Green had already been exposed by shite banger Miranda, but we now have the luxury of seeing how this event has gone, and I think at least 60/70% of the boxing public would put Dirrells fight with Froch down as robbery of the year last year ( he held his own in there either way with the WBC Champ at the time )
He then won a disputed DQ against AA, who was coming on strong but Dirrell was ahead comfrotably on all cards, now Dirrell has shown he is world class and can hang with the top boys of the division.
Green on the other hand has fought a fringe top ten fighter ( Miranda ) and lost then stepped it up in this event and put on the worst perfromance of 2010 so far for me against Ward, so his two showings at world level have shown he is utter shite and should not of been in this event. Dirrell got in this on the back of hype and an unbeaton record and so far has justified his inclusion, maybe not on style ( not to everyones liking ) but has poved he belongs at world level. Green has shown he belongs headlining espn Wednesday fight nights in some school gym.
I think that is what Fenster is getting at and now Johnson has an unfair advantage of coming in and fighting one fight and the worst fighter by some distance in most peoples book with the chance of making the semi finals?
While everyone else have had to fight three fights against solid opponents, again I agree with Fenster and if I was the likes of Froch,AA and Dirrell I would be kicking up a fuss about this.
I can understand you think Johnson has unfair advantage coming into this, but I don't see how that applies to Green. If anything, Green has more of a right to be mad than Dirrell or Froch. They were given three chances to progress whereas he was given two and in his first fight he faced Ward at Ward's home. Plus, now he has to knock out the unknockoutable' Glen Johnson to advance. In retrospect, I'm sure everyone would have loved to fight Taylor on their home turf in their first fight. At the end of the day, I'm just not too upset about seeing Dirrell go. But, you are, and fair enough.
But Dirrell had not been beat, green had and beat by someone who is nt even a top ten fighter, Dirrell was in this event as at the time 168 was not the deepest and he was young good am background and unbeaton ( never mind how bad his resume was ) Green like I say had a loss against a very standard fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI just disagree. You put down Green's resume and I agree, it isn't very impressive, there really isn'y much to argue about there, but Dirrell hadn't done anything to deserve the super six either . He was included because they needed another american. Dirrell didn't even have a Miranda-level opponent on his resume before the super six. And now what does he have, a DQ win over Abraham? He held his own against Froch? Really? He ran from Froch all night. I'm not sure how that is holding his own against top competition. Plus it was a horrible display of fighting. It was not fun to watch at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
Rant you serious? Mate even at the start of this when Dirrell had not fought anyone, Green had already been exposed by shite banger Miranda, but we now have the luxury of seeing how this event has gone, and I think at least 60/70% of the boxing public would put Dirrells fight with Froch down as robbery of the year last year ( he held his own in there either way with the WBC Champ at the time )
He then won a disputed DQ against AA, who was coming on strong but Dirrell was ahead comfrotably on all cards, now Dirrell has shown he is world class and can hang with the top boys of the division.
Green on the other hand has fought a fringe top ten fighter ( Miranda ) and lost then stepped it up in this event and put on the worst perfromance of 2010 so far for me against Ward, so his two showings at world level have shown he is utter shite and should not of been in this event. Dirrell got in this on the back of hype and an unbeaton record and so far has justified his inclusion, maybe not on style ( not to everyones liking ) but has poved he belongs at world level. Green has shown he belongs headlining espn Wednesday fight nights in some school gym.
I think that is what Fenster is getting at and now Johnson has an unfair advantage of coming in and fighting one fight and the worst fighter by some distance in most peoples book with the chance of making the semi finals?
While everyone else have had to fight three fights against solid opponents, again I agree with Fenster and if I was the likes of Froch,AA and Dirrell I would be kicking up a fuss about this.
I can understand you think Johnson has unfair advantage coming into this, but I don't see how that applies to Green. If anything, Green has more of a right to be mad than Dirrell or Froch. They were given three chances to progress whereas he was given two and in his first fight he faced Ward at Ward's home. Plus, now he has to knock out the unknockoutable' Glen Johnson to advance. In retrospect, I'm sure everyone would have loved to fight Taylor on their home turf in their first fight. At the end of the day, I'm just not too upset about seeing Dirrell go. But, you are, and fair enough.
You don't think Dirrell hung with Froch :confused: I am sorry mate but for someone to step into the lions den in his first big fight and for me win, yes it was ugly but for me he landed all the better stuff, he showed that in his next fight with AA he had learnt alot after his first big fight and really schooled AA early doors, how the hell can you say them two performances were not world class? Fun or not he showed he belong in there company,where Green has shown he has no right to be in this event.
I suppose it is easy to say with hindsight to say Dirrell was worthy but like I say the division was not that deep and he was hyped and unbeaton.
Haha mate I just don't know where you are seeing this from? This is after reading your paragraph about Green should be the one pissed, mate if I was Green I would be at home laughing my arse off saying to myself " how the fuck am I still in this, I am fucking shit I proved that against Ward now I get to fight again against a 40+ man who has not fought at 168 for over 8 years!!! "
That's all subjective and doesn't prove anything. Taylor was a betting favorite and the people on this site favored him? What does that really mean? And you include him as a favorite - but not THE favorite. So, what you're saying is that after Froch, Abraham and Kessler, Taylor was a favorite? How is being the 4th ranked person in a tournament of 6 a favorite of any sort? Maybe I'm missing something...Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI never said Taylor was THE favourite. I said one of the favourites. That's a fact. Ward and Dirrell were both double figure priced outsiders. That's another fact. Super Six boxing odds: Carl Froch confident of defeating Andre DirrellQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
MANY dismissed Froch's late KO over Taylor as a fluke - hence Taylor starting the competition highly favoured. Fact. MANY on this site had him beating Abraham. Fact.
I don't care if Dirrell has stunk the place out. I don't care if he loses every fight. The fact is he has fought light-years stronger competition than Johnson or Green in the Super Six. So for two replacements to be able to leap frog him in one fight is a complete disgrace. Fact.
At the heart of what you're saying is that because Dirrell's showed up to face Froch, Abraham, and Ward, even though he hasn't had one true win, you feel he deserves to progress more than Green and Johnson because they haven't showed up to face all those three.
To me, showing up to fight those three, doesn't mean all that much if in your showings, you didn't do jack and in fact, you stunk the place out. But, I can see your argument in the case of Johnson, who hasn't fought anyone at all. I hear you there. But, Green entered the tournament at a disadvantage and fought the guy in his hometown who most people pick to win it all now, and now faces a guy who is impossible to knock out, and must knockout to advance. If Green knocks Glen Johnson out, a guy Chad Dawson, Tavoris Cloud, Yusaf Mack, couldn't knock out, to me, that merits him making the next round more than Dirrell's horrible showings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
takes care of the rematch clauses in those contracts ;)
Green entered the tournament with one loss!!! Dirrell entered it with a clean slate. Green had an uphill battle from the beginning. He only had two chances to make it and one of them was against Ward at home. And now he has to knock Glen Johnson out to get to the next round. Think about that: one fight against Ward in Oakland and then a knockout win over Johnson. How is that lucky? I wanted Bika to fight Green for entry into the tournament, but Bika backed out. Not Green. And at the time, after that, there was no better replacement than Green.
How is that lucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
He is utter shite that's why, he woul of made the best part of $500k because his promoter was Lou Di Bella, he is one lucky son of a bitch, I give him much better chance against Johnson than Kessler put it that way, Johnson is a tough tough man but is an old man and has not fought at 168 in so many years, I don't think for one minute Green will knock him out because he is crap he wouldnt knock half the decent fighters at 168, but I would deffo rather fight Johnson than Kessler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by skel1983
takes care of the rematch clauses in those contracts ;)
There is no rematch clauses. :-\
So, what are you arguing about then? If he doesn't knock him out, he doesn't advance. He could even beat Glen Johnson, which would be a good win, and then not advance.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983How is that lucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
He is utter shite that's why, he woul of made the best part of $500k because his promoter was Lou Di Bella, he is one lucky son of a bitch, I give him much better chance against Johnson than Kessler put it that way, Johnson is a tough tough man but is an old man and has not fought at 168 in so many years, I don't think for one minute Green will knock him out because he is crap he wouldnt knock half the decent fighters at 168, but I would deffo rather fight Johnson than Kessler.
I don't give him a better chance against Johnson than Kessler. Well, winning the fight, yes I agree with you. But, he must get a KO to advance. And there is no way he's KO'ing Johnson. No way. Kessler getting knocked out is more likely.
You are not acknowleding that he entered the tournament at a disadvantage. The odds were against him anyway. Everyone else had three matches to advance, he had two. So, if you thought he was horrible you didn't have to worry because he probably wasn't making out of the first round regardless.
Bottom line, you like Dirrell's DQ W over Abraham more than a KO over Johnson. We can agree to disagree.
Carl Froch7/4Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThat's all subjective and doesn't prove anything. Taylor was a betting favorite and the people on this site favored him? What does that really mean? And you include him as a favorite - but not THE favorite. So, what you're saying is that after Froch, Abraham and Kessler, Taylor was as favorite? How is being the 4th ranked person in a tournament of 6 a favorite of any sort? Maybe I'm missing something...Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI never said Taylor was THE favourite. I said one of the favourites. That's a fact. Ward and Dirrell were both double figure priced outsiders. That's another fact. Super Six boxing odds: Carl Froch confident of defeating Andre DirrellQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
MANY dismissed Froch's late KO over Taylor as a fluke - hence Taylor starting the competition highly favoured. Fact. MANY on this site had him beating Abraham. Fact.
I don't care if Dirrell has stunk the place out. I don't care if he loses every fight. The fact is he has fought light-years stronger competition than Johnson or Green in the Super Six. So for two replacements to be able to leap frog him in one fight is a complete disgrace. Fact.
At the heart of what you're saying is that because Dirrell's showed up to face Froch, Abraham, and Ward, even though he hasn't had one true win, you feel he deserves to progress more than Green and Johnson because they haven't showed up to face all those three.
To me, showing up to fight those three, doesn't mean all that much if in your showings, you didn't do jack and in fact, you stunk the place out. But, I can see your argument in the case of Johnson, who hasn't fought anyone at all. I hear you there. But, Green entered the tournament at a disadvantage and fought the guy in his hometown who most people pick to win it all now, and now faces a guy who is impossible to knock out, and must knockout to advance. If Green knocks Glen Johnson out, a guy Chad Dawson, Tavoris Cloud, Yusaf Mack, couldn't knock out, to me, that merits him making the next round more than Dirrell's horrible showings.
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ournament.html
Look at the betting - Is Taylor closer to a favourite or underdog?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratSo, what are you arguing about then? If he doesn't knock him out, he doesn't advance. He could even beat Glen Johnson, which would be a good win, and then not advance.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983How is that lucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
He is utter shite that's why, he woul of made the best part of $500k because his promoter was Lou Di Bella, he is one lucky son of a bitch, I give him much better chance against Johnson than Kessler put it that way, Johnson is a tough tough man but is an old man and has not fought at 168 in so many years, I don't think for one minute Green will knock him out because he is crap he wouldnt knock half the decent fighters at 168, but I would deffo rather fight Johnson than Kessler.
I don't give him a better chance against Johnson than Kessler. Well, winning the fight, yes I agree with you. But, he must get a KO to advance. And there is no way he's KO'ing Johnson. No way. Kessler getting knocked out is more likely.
You are not acknowleding that he entered the tournament at a disadvantage. The odds were against him anyway. Everyone else had three matches to advance, he had two. So, if you thought he was horrible you didn't have to worry because he probably wasn't making out of the first round regardless.
Bottom line, you like Dirrell's DQ W over Abraham more than a KO over Johnson. We can agree to disagree.
Lets not try diverting the oiginal point mate, fact of the matter is Green has a hard task but what the fuck does he expect? Super six? There is nothing super about him, he new he was a replacement and he new the task simple really? But he preformed like a blind disabled person against Ward that was his own fault. He won't be knocking out Kesser or Johnson in his wildest dreams.
What you are saying is that Kessler, Abraham and Froch had better odds? So, how is Taylor a favorite? I'm sorry, I'm slow today, explain that. I assume from your chart, Froch and Kessler were the favorites.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterCarl Froch7/4Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThat's all subjective and doesn't prove anything. Taylor was a betting favorite and the people on this site favored him? What does that really mean? And you include him as a favorite - but not THE favorite. So, what you're saying is that after Froch, Abraham and Kessler, Taylor was as favorite? How is being the 4th ranked person in a tournament of 6 a favorite of any sort? Maybe I'm missing something...Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI never said Taylor was THE favourite. I said one of the favourites. That's a fact. Ward and Dirrell were both double figure priced outsiders. That's another fact. Super Six boxing odds: Carl Froch confident of defeating Andre DirrellQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
MANY dismissed Froch's late KO over Taylor as a fluke - hence Taylor starting the competition highly favoured. Fact. MANY on this site had him beating Abraham. Fact.
I don't care if Dirrell has stunk the place out. I don't care if he loses every fight. The fact is he has fought light-years stronger competition than Johnson or Green in the Super Six. So for two replacements to be able to leap frog him in one fight is a complete disgrace. Fact.
At the heart of what you're saying is that because Dirrell's showed up to face Froch, Abraham, and Ward, even though he hasn't had one true win, you feel he deserves to progress more than Green and Johnson because they haven't showed up to face all those three.
To me, showing up to fight those three, doesn't mean all that much if in your showings, you didn't do jack and in fact, you stunk the place out. But, I can see your argument in the case of Johnson, who hasn't fought anyone at all. I hear you there. But, Green entered the tournament at a disadvantage and fought the guy in his hometown who most people pick to win it all now, and now faces a guy who is impossible to knock out, and must knockout to advance. If Green knocks Glen Johnson out, a guy Chad Dawson, Tavoris Cloud, Yusaf Mack, couldn't knock out, to me, that merits him making the next round more than Dirrell's horrible showings.
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ournament.html
Look at the betting - Is Taylor closer to a favourite or underdog?
Before it started, I thought, after doing research, that Boxing - Super Six odds set looked to be the most professional/best done odds. Danny Sheridan is well-known and respected in the states. He gave Taylor the worst odds of the tournament.
Quick google search produced this:
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=21097&more=1 - Ted Sares Abraham by KO
http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content5943.html - 13-6 people Abraham.
I could continue to search, but I think most people (I guess outside of Saddo) predicted Abraham to win. Giving you the benefit of the doubt though, at the least, Taylor was never a "favorite" of the tournament.
If I can remind you, lest you forget, Kessler performed like a blind disabled person against Ward too. In fact, now that you bring up performances against Ward, did Kessler make it to the final bell? And wasn't he the favorite with the best resume going into the tournament? I don't think looking poor against Ward really proves anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratSo, what are you arguing about then? If he doesn't knock him out, he doesn't advance. He could even beat Glen Johnson, which would be a good win, and then not advance.Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1983How is that lucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
He is utter shite that's why, he woul of made the best part of $500k because his promoter was Lou Di Bella, he is one lucky son of a bitch, I give him much better chance against Johnson than Kessler put it that way, Johnson is a tough tough man but is an old man and has not fought at 168 in so many years, I don't think for one minute Green will knock him out because he is crap he wouldnt knock half the decent fighters at 168, but I would deffo rather fight Johnson than Kessler.
I don't give him a better chance against Johnson than Kessler. Well, winning the fight, yes I agree with you. But, he must get a KO to advance. And there is no way he's KO'ing Johnson. No way. Kessler getting knocked out is more likely.
You are not acknowleding that he entered the tournament at a disadvantage. The odds were against him anyway. Everyone else had three matches to advance, he had two. So, if you thought he was horrible you didn't have to worry because he probably wasn't making out of the first round regardless.
Bottom line, you like Dirrell's DQ W over Abraham more than a KO over Johnson. We can agree to disagree.
Lets not try diverting the oiginal point mate, fact of the matter is Green has a hard task but what the fuck does he expect? Super six? There is nothing super about him, he new he was a replacement and he new the task simple really? But he preformed like a blind disabled person against Ward that was his own fault. He won't be knocking out Kesser or Johnson in his wildest dreams.
Green was at a disadvantage and the odds are he doesn't make it to the next round.
He was closer to favourite than outsider, unless you are following Danny Sheridan of course. And as I previously said - plenty of fans picked him to win the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWhat you are saying is that Kessler, Abraham and Froch had better odds? So, how is Taylor a favorite? I'm sorry, I'm slow today, explain that. I assume from your chart, Froch and Kessler were the favorites.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterCarl Froch7/4Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThat's all subjective and doesn't prove anything. Taylor was a betting favorite and the people on this site favored him? What does that really mean? And you include him as a favorite - but not THE favorite. So, what you're saying is that after Froch, Abraham and Kessler, Taylor was as favorite? How is being the 4th ranked person in a tournament of 6 a favorite of any sort? Maybe I'm missing something...Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI never said Taylor was THE favourite. I said one of the favourites. That's a fact. Ward and Dirrell were both double figure priced outsiders. That's another fact. Super Six boxing odds: Carl Froch confident of defeating Andre DirrellQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
MANY dismissed Froch's late KO over Taylor as a fluke - hence Taylor starting the competition highly favoured. Fact. MANY on this site had him beating Abraham. Fact.
I don't care if Dirrell has stunk the place out. I don't care if he loses every fight. The fact is he has fought light-years stronger competition than Johnson or Green in the Super Six. So for two replacements to be able to leap frog him in one fight is a complete disgrace. Fact.
At the heart of what you're saying is that because Dirrell's showed up to face Froch, Abraham, and Ward, even though he hasn't had one true win, you feel he deserves to progress more than Green and Johnson because they haven't showed up to face all those three.
To me, showing up to fight those three, doesn't mean all that much if in your showings, you didn't do jack and in fact, you stunk the place out. But, I can see your argument in the case of Johnson, who hasn't fought anyone at all. I hear you there. But, Green entered the tournament at a disadvantage and fought the guy in his hometown who most people pick to win it all now, and now faces a guy who is impossible to knock out, and must knockout to advance. If Green knocks Glen Johnson out, a guy Chad Dawson, Tavoris Cloud, Yusaf Mack, couldn't knock out, to me, that merits him making the next round more than Dirrell's horrible showings.
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ournament.html
Look at the betting - Is Taylor closer to a favourite or underdog?
Before it started, I thought, after doing research, that Boxing - Super Six odds set looked to be the most professional/best done odds. Danny Sheridan is well-known and respected in the states. He gave Taylor the worst odds of the tournament.
Quick google search produced this:
Taylor vs. Abraham: Breakdown and Prediction - Ted Sares Abraham by KO
FIGHTHYPE \\ FIGHTHYPE PREDICTIONS: TAYLOR VS. ABRAHAM AND FROCH VS. DIRRELL - 13-6 people Abraham.
I could continue to search, but I think most people (I guess outside of Saddo) predicted Abraham to win. Giving you the benefit of the doubt though, at the least, Taylor was never a "favorite" of the tournament.
A quick search shows around a 60-40 split in Abraham's favour. Taylor was CLEARLY far from a no-hoper to many. Fact.
Poll Position - Cast Your Vote | TheSweetScience.com ... East Side Boxing Forum - View Poll Results
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHe was closer to favourite than outsider, unless you are following Danny Sheridan of course. And as I previously said - plenty of fans picked him to win the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWhat you are saying is that Kessler, Abraham and Froch had better odds? So, how is Taylor a favorite? I'm sorry, I'm slow today, explain that. I assume from your chart, Froch and Kessler were the favorites.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterCarl Froch7/4Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThat's all subjective and doesn't prove anything. Taylor was a betting favorite and the people on this site favored him? What does that really mean? And you include him as a favorite - but not THE favorite. So, what you're saying is that after Froch, Abraham and Kessler, Taylor was as favorite? How is being the 4th ranked person in a tournament of 6 a favorite of any sort? Maybe I'm missing something...Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI never said Taylor was THE favourite. I said one of the favourites. That's a fact. Ward and Dirrell were both double figure priced outsiders. That's another fact. Super Six boxing odds: Carl Froch confident of defeating Andre DirrellQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
MANY dismissed Froch's late KO over Taylor as a fluke - hence Taylor starting the competition highly favoured. Fact. MANY on this site had him beating Abraham. Fact.
I don't care if Dirrell has stunk the place out. I don't care if he loses every fight. The fact is he has fought light-years stronger competition than Johnson or Green in the Super Six. So for two replacements to be able to leap frog him in one fight is a complete disgrace. Fact.
At the heart of what you're saying is that because Dirrell's showed up to face Froch, Abraham, and Ward, even though he hasn't had one true win, you feel he deserves to progress more than Green and Johnson because they haven't showed up to face all those three.
To me, showing up to fight those three, doesn't mean all that much if in your showings, you didn't do jack and in fact, you stunk the place out. But, I can see your argument in the case of Johnson, who hasn't fought anyone at all. I hear you there. But, Green entered the tournament at a disadvantage and fought the guy in his hometown who most people pick to win it all now, and now faces a guy who is impossible to knock out, and must knockout to advance. If Green knocks Glen Johnson out, a guy Chad Dawson, Tavoris Cloud, Yusaf Mack, couldn't knock out, to me, that merits him making the next round more than Dirrell's horrible showings.
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ournament.html
Look at the betting - Is Taylor closer to a favourite or underdog?
Before it started, I thought, after doing research, that Boxing - Super Six odds set looked to be the most professional/best done odds. Danny Sheridan is well-known and respected in the states. He gave Taylor the worst odds of the tournament.
Quick google search produced this:
Taylor vs. Abraham: Breakdown and Prediction - Ted Sares Abraham by KO
FIGHTHYPE \\ FIGHTHYPE PREDICTIONS: TAYLOR VS. ABRAHAM AND FROCH VS. DIRRELL - 13-6 people Abraham.
I could continue to search, but I think most people (I guess outside of Saddo) predicted Abraham to win. Giving you the benefit of the doubt though, at the least, Taylor was never a "favorite" of the tournament.
A quick search shows around a 60-40 split in Abraham's favour. Taylor was CLEARLY far from a no-hoper to many. Fact.
Poll Position - Cast Your Vote | TheSweetScience.com ... East Side Boxing Forum - View Poll Results
Bottom line: Taylor was NOT one of the favorites to win the tournament.
It's besides the point, but I think maybe you forgot what you originally said: "Taylor was one of the favourites to win the whole competition, the majority of this forum picked him to beat Abraham."
And now in your last post, "A quick search shows around a 60-40 split in Abraham's favour. Taylor was CLEARLY far from a no-hoper to many." Not only do you quote from East Side Boxing, but you are saying something different now: from being "one of the favourites" to being "not a no-hoper." Not sure what that is called over the pond, but here, we refer to that as "changing your tune."
Its ok Fenster, you can admit when you're wrong, you're still a tough guy to me, mate :rolleyes: FACT
You insinuated Taylor was a no-hoper. You called him - "the worst fighter entering the tournament," as my odds show (Taylor is 4th favourite), going by the many fans that picked him to win the whole tournament and even going by the amount that picked him over Abraham (40%), your opinion is almost certainly in the minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterHe was closer to favourite than outsider, unless you are following Danny Sheridan of course. And as I previously said - plenty of fans picked him to win the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWhat you are saying is that Kessler, Abraham and Froch had better odds? So, how is Taylor a favorite? I'm sorry, I'm slow today, explain that. I assume from your chart, Froch and Kessler were the favorites.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterCarl Froch7/4Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThat's all subjective and doesn't prove anything. Taylor was a betting favorite and the people on this site favored him? What does that really mean? And you include him as a favorite - but not THE favorite. So, what you're saying is that after Froch, Abraham and Kessler, Taylor was as favorite? How is being the 4th ranked person in a tournament of 6 a favorite of any sort? Maybe I'm missing something...Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI never said Taylor was THE favourite. I said one of the favourites. That's a fact. Ward and Dirrell were both double figure priced outsiders. That's another fact. Super Six boxing odds: Carl Froch confident of defeating Andre DirrellQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
MANY dismissed Froch's late KO over Taylor as a fluke - hence Taylor starting the competition highly favoured. Fact. MANY on this site had him beating Abraham. Fact.
I don't care if Dirrell has stunk the place out. I don't care if he loses every fight. The fact is he has fought light-years stronger competition than Johnson or Green in the Super Six. So for two replacements to be able to leap frog him in one fight is a complete disgrace. Fact.
At the heart of what you're saying is that because Dirrell's showed up to face Froch, Abraham, and Ward, even though he hasn't had one true win, you feel he deserves to progress more than Green and Johnson because they haven't showed up to face all those three.
To me, showing up to fight those three, doesn't mean all that much if in your showings, you didn't do jack and in fact, you stunk the place out. But, I can see your argument in the case of Johnson, who hasn't fought anyone at all. I hear you there. But, Green entered the tournament at a disadvantage and fought the guy in his hometown who most people pick to win it all now, and now faces a guy who is impossible to knock out, and must knockout to advance. If Green knocks Glen Johnson out, a guy Chad Dawson, Tavoris Cloud, Yusaf Mack, couldn't knock out, to me, that merits him making the next round more than Dirrell's horrible showings.
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ournament.html
Look at the betting - Is Taylor closer to a favourite or underdog?
Before it started, I thought, after doing research, that Boxing - Super Six odds set looked to be the most professional/best done odds. Danny Sheridan is well-known and respected in the states. He gave Taylor the worst odds of the tournament.
Quick google search produced this:
Taylor vs. Abraham: Breakdown and Prediction - Ted Sares Abraham by KO
FIGHTHYPE \\ FIGHTHYPE PREDICTIONS: TAYLOR VS. ABRAHAM AND FROCH VS. DIRRELL - 13-6 people Abraham.
I could continue to search, but I think most people (I guess outside of Saddo) predicted Abraham to win. Giving you the benefit of the doubt though, at the least, Taylor was never a "favorite" of the tournament.
A quick search shows around a 60-40 split in Abraham's favour. Taylor was CLEARLY far from a no-hoper to many. Fact.
Poll Position - Cast Your Vote | TheSweetScience.com ... East Side Boxing Forum - View Poll Results
Bottom line: Taylor was NOT one of the favorites to win the tournament.
It's besides the point, but I think maybe you forgot what you originally said: "Taylor was one of the favourites to win the whole competition, the majority of this forum picked him to beat Abraham."
And now in your last post, "A quick search shows around a 60-40 split in Abraham's favour. Taylor was CLEARLY far from a no-hoper to many." Not only do you quote from East Side Boxing, but you are saying something different now: from being "one of the favourites" to being "not a no-hoper." Not sure what that is called over the pond, but here, we refer to that as "changing your tune."
Its ok Fenster, you can admit when you're wrong, you're still a tough guy to me, mate :rolleyes: FACT
I was right in saying he was one of the favourites unless we use Danny Sheridan's odds.
I was wrong to say the majority picked Taylor over Abraham (40% is a pretty healthy amount though).
Fact.
how many favorites can there be? there can be one favorite or maybe two favorites? but 4? there can't be 4 favorites if there are only 6 contestants.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYou insinuated Taylor was a no-hoper. You called him - "the worst fighter entering the tournament," as my odds show (Taylor is 4th favourite), going by the many fans that picked him to win the whole tournament and even going by the amount that picked him over Abraham (40%), your opinion is almost certainly in the minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterHe was closer to favourite than outsider, unless you are following Danny Sheridan of course. And as I previously said - plenty of fans picked him to win the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratWhat you are saying is that Kessler, Abraham and Froch had better odds? So, how is Taylor a favorite? I'm sorry, I'm slow today, explain that. I assume from your chart, Froch and Kessler were the favorites.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterCarl Froch7/4Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThat's all subjective and doesn't prove anything. Taylor was a betting favorite and the people on this site favored him? What does that really mean? And you include him as a favorite - but not THE favorite. So, what you're saying is that after Froch, Abraham and Kessler, Taylor was as favorite? How is being the 4th ranked person in a tournament of 6 a favorite of any sort? Maybe I'm missing something...Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI never said Taylor was THE favourite. I said one of the favourites. That's a fact. Ward and Dirrell were both double figure priced outsiders. That's another fact. Super Six boxing odds: Carl Froch confident of defeating Andre DirrellQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratThe only reason I'm arguing this point is that I have no real interest in seeing Dirrell make it to the semi's. Of course, I'll be the first to agree he should be there if he beats Ward though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
First facts straight, only a KO win gets Johnson or Green into the semi-finals.
Second, Abraham is relying on his 3 points from his KO of the worst fighter entering the tournament to make it to the next round - he actually retired after that fight. I'm sorry I was not among those who thought Taylor would beat Abraham. And to say he was a favorite is ludicrous. Kessler was by far and away the favorite and Abraham was thought to be the runner up. I would venture to say next was Froch and then Ward. Taylor was the weakest link. He was only included for name value. How could he have been the favorite after Froch, a competitor in the tournament, knocked him out previously? That's nonsensical.
Third, what has Dirrell done with his chances to advance? Seriously. Name something...oh wait, I get your point, he actually showed up to those fights. I guess in a weird way that is something.
Fourth, would you rather see Dirrell or Johnson fight Froch/Abraham in the next round?
Fifth, explain to me how Green was a worse inclusion than Dirrell? Because Dirrell was undefeated? Really? Come on, man. There really isn't anything different between Dirrell and Green's resume.
MANY dismissed Froch's late KO over Taylor as a fluke - hence Taylor starting the competition highly favoured. Fact. MANY on this site had him beating Abraham. Fact.
I don't care if Dirrell has stunk the place out. I don't care if he loses every fight. The fact is he has fought light-years stronger competition than Johnson or Green in the Super Six. So for two replacements to be able to leap frog him in one fight is a complete disgrace. Fact.
At the heart of what you're saying is that because Dirrell's showed up to face Froch, Abraham, and Ward, even though he hasn't had one true win, you feel he deserves to progress more than Green and Johnson because they haven't showed up to face all those three.
To me, showing up to fight those three, doesn't mean all that much if in your showings, you didn't do jack and in fact, you stunk the place out. But, I can see your argument in the case of Johnson, who hasn't fought anyone at all. I hear you there. But, Green entered the tournament at a disadvantage and fought the guy in his hometown who most people pick to win it all now, and now faces a guy who is impossible to knock out, and must knockout to advance. If Green knocks Glen Johnson out, a guy Chad Dawson, Tavoris Cloud, Yusaf Mack, couldn't knock out, to me, that merits him making the next round more than Dirrell's horrible showings.
Mikkel Kessler11/4
Arthur Abraham7/2
Jermain Taylor5/1
Andre Ward10/1
Andre Dirrell14/1
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ournament.html
Look at the betting - Is Taylor closer to a favourite or underdog?
Before it started, I thought, after doing research, that Boxing - Super Six odds set looked to be the most professional/best done odds. Danny Sheridan is well-known and respected in the states. He gave Taylor the worst odds of the tournament.
Quick google search produced this:
Taylor vs. Abraham: Breakdown and Prediction - Ted Sares Abraham by KO
FIGHTHYPE \\ FIGHTHYPE PREDICTIONS: TAYLOR VS. ABRAHAM AND FROCH VS. DIRRELL - 13-6 people Abraham.
I could continue to search, but I think most people (I guess outside of Saddo) predicted Abraham to win. Giving you the benefit of the doubt though, at the least, Taylor was never a "favorite" of the tournament.
A quick search shows around a 60-40 split in Abraham's favour. Taylor was CLEARLY far from a no-hoper to many. Fact.
Poll Position - Cast Your Vote | TheSweetScience.com ... East Side Boxing Forum - View Poll Results
Bottom line: Taylor was NOT one of the favorites to win the tournament.
It's besides the point, but I think maybe you forgot what you originally said: "Taylor was one of the favourites to win the whole competition, the majority of this forum picked him to beat Abraham."
And now in your last post, "A quick search shows around a 60-40 split in Abraham's favour. Taylor was CLEARLY far from a no-hoper to many." Not only do you quote from East Side Boxing, but you are saying something different now: from being "one of the favourites" to being "not a no-hoper." Not sure what that is called over the pond, but here, we refer to that as "changing your tune."
Its ok Fenster, you can admit when you're wrong, you're still a tough guy to me, mate :rolleyes: FACT
I was right in saying he was one of the favourites unless we use Danny Sheridan's odds.
I was wrong to say the majority picked Taylor over Abraham (40% is a pretty healthy amount though).
Fact.
i'll put it like this, to the majority of people (not just me), Taylor was one of the underdogs along with the unproven Americans, and after the first round before he retired, he was undoubtedly the worst contestant in the tournament. Green just took over his spot as the worst contestant in the tournament. i will say that Glen Johnson is a tougher fight than Taylor.
You know what screw it let johnson in, after all the great fights he's given the sport let him go ahead and have this one last shot. Neither of these guys including taylor had a shot to begin with and it a pretty decent fight for an undercard. I think johnson will probably win simply by outworking him. Green just hasn't looked good lately, i still remember him confused and asking what to do against simms, that's when i started wondering about the guy. I guess i don't totally count green out cause when he does throw he is pretty heavy handed but he's always talked a better game than he actually shows in the ring.