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I know some will say ODLH but that wasn't a prime boxing Oscar. So take away that fight and when was the last time he faced a fighter that could truly box on a world class level?
When I say box, I mean that their initial strategy is to box first, fight second.
i'd say apart from the lower weight class guys like Marquez and Barrera the closest thing was his fight against Clottey, and well that's not really much on a technical stand point, if he was to fight Bradley i'd say he's the most technical guy he's fought in some timeQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Cotto was a technically sound boxer. Just a shame he'd been ruin by margarito and made to come down to a catchweight.
If that's your criteria, then Eric Morales comes to mind. Most have seen him adjust his style in the ring from Boxer to Puncher and be successful doing both.
Don't be mislead, Manny opponents have been hand-picked to some extent. But nonetheless, he fought, top-notch fighters, with a name, and fan appeal. Boxing is a business!!! If he fights a young lion, it's like, high risk no reward. Surely we can think of a few young studs Pacman can fight, but won't bring him the money and legacy he GOT!!!
Marquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Fuck that, the important question is - when was the last time he beat a Black Guy?
http://home.comcast.net/~antwuanmax/...om-shuffle.gif http://home.comcast.net/~antwuanmax/...makeitclap.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
Yeah but he's not ghetto black. Doesn't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::http://home.comcast.net/~antwuanmax/...om-shuffle.gif http://home.comcast.net/~antwuanmax/...makeitclap.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
Yeah I was thinking that and after watching that fight just a few hours ago, its no wonder they've put him in the ring with guys who like to trade and are limited in true boxing ability. Watching that fight, man he's going to be in serious trouble against floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMarquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
i see mayweather jr. picking his shots and ultimately picking pacquiao apart. he's going to frustrate him and cause him to make alot of mistakes. pacquiao will be taken to school!
I've only seen 1 fight of Lebwaba and that was with Pacquiao. Members from other sites said Lebwaba was a slick boxer and was positioned by HBO to become a star and Pacquiao was a stepping stone coming into the fight on 2 weeks notice. I haven't seen enough of Lebwaba to agree on this, but that could be potentially 1 of those slick boxers that he faced.
good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoYeah but he's not ghetto black. Doesn't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::http://home.comcast.net/~antwuanmax/...om-shuffle.gif http://home.comcast.net/~antwuanmax/...makeitclap.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
Lebwaba wasn't slick at all against pac - pac took him out mid rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Who was available that was fighting at the level Pac's been on for the last 5 years?
Fact is in the weight classes he's been at, until welterweight. There were no top level "boxers" black, white, whatever......
Morales, ODH, Hatton, Cotto, Barrera, are all top level boxer/punchers.
There were no defensive first boxers in those times and classes.
No one said defensive first. He should have faced Raheem after he schooled Morrales, but took the easier fight instead. The rest is history. Don't see how facing Margarito made more sense than facing Berto or Collazo unless it was all about money first.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
David diaz had mad skills.
The Morales fight needed to be taken first, because that was his conqueror, the man that manhandled him in the ring and mocked him by fighting southpaw in the final round.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherNo one said defensive first. He should have faced Raheem after he schooled Morrales, but took the easier fight instead. The rest is history. Don't see how facing Margarito made more sense than facing Berto or Collazo unless it was all about money first.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
As for Manny, he's going to get criticized no matter who he faces, when you are 1/2 of the face of boxing right now it happens. An example would be people were saying Pac ducked Nate Cambell and should have fought him after testing the water at 135 after fighting David Diaz, instead of De La Hoya. Now who the hell would turn down 15 or 16 million to fight Nate Cambell for maybe 2 or 3 million? Shit was ridiculous. Or that he ducked Bradley when Hatton was considered to be the man and lineal champ at 140. That fight he got paid 13 million. So he should have fought Bradley for maybe 2 or 3 million who's only a beltholder? Come on, that doesn't make sense financially or in boxing terms.
Now there could be a reasonable argument that he "ducked" Shane after Cotto, but it was expected he would fight Mayweather, until negotiations broke down between both parties and if I"m not mistaken Shane was going to fight Berto until the earthquake happened and then the Floyd-Mosley fight happened.
I'm a firm believer that at the elite level, guys aren't afraid of each other. Fights don't happen for various reasons. See B-Hop/Jones as an example. Took what 17 years for a 2nd fight to happen.
:lolhaha::lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherNo one said defensive first. He should have faced Raheem after he schooled Morrales, but took the easier fight instead. The rest is history. Don't see how facing Margarito made more sense than facing Berto or Collazo unless it was all about money first.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Raheem wasn't supposed to win against Morales. Pac and Morales shared the card and were supposed to fight each other and both win...... Just like Zab getting beat by Baldomir, but PBF still fought Zab. Promoter made the fight, not Pac.
Berto and Collazo would be good fights for Pac. Better than Margo. Of course, Margo has the same promoter as Pac, so it's all about money, but not for Pac. Blame Arum, and the various promoters.
Same point though. Pac wasn't avoiding anyone. Fans weren't clamoring for Pac to fight Raheem,Collazo, Berto, etc. Pac was fighting PBF. When that didn't happen his promoter took the next best payday fights.
Exactly. Which is the exact reason I have Mayweather to school Pac. Mayweather is the greatest counter puncher and has the best boxing brain of any fighter in the world today. For me that is what will make him dominate Pac who likes to pick off these fighter who just keep walking him down all night and being pummelled for their troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMarquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Oscar was a great boxer in his day BUT I don't think he should have agreed to make Welter, and he had already shown he wasn't the force he once was when he fought Forbes. Don't want to take it away from Pac though as I think he is the greatest weight climber of all time, but I truly believe he will more than meet his match if he fights Floyd.
people keep saying this when honestly i think it's being played up too much, Pacquiao is doing what Jones already has done, difference is in the higher weight classes well the gaps between divisions are a bit wider therefore there are less weight classes than from jnr welter on down, both guys have spanned their careers 40 lbs, if anything Jones' accomplishment of winning a title should be even more praised since he didn't do it at a catch weight and Ruiz outweighed him by what? 40 lbs?Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuExactly. Which is the exact reason I have Mayweather to school Pac. Mayweather is the greatest counter puncher and has the best boxing brain of any fighter in the world today. For me that is what will make him dominate Pac who likes to pick off these fighter who just keep walking him down all night and being pummelled for their troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMarquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Oscar was a great boxer in his day BUT I don't think he should have agreed to make Welter, and he had already shown he wasn't the force he once was when he fought Forbes. Don't want to take it away from Pac though as I think he is the greatest weight climber of all time, but I truly believe he will more than meet his match if he fights Floyd.
it's not a knock on Pacquiao, but i think what makes his accomplishments special is more WHO he has beaten rather than how many titles or weight classes he's jumped up in
the thing you have remember though is boxing fans are fickle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralespeople keep saying this when honestly i think it's being played up too much, Pacquiao is doing what Jones already has done, difference is in the higher weight classes well the gaps between divisions are a bit wider therefore there are less weight classes than from jnr welter on down, both guys have spanned their careers 40 lbs, if anything Jones' accomplishment of winning a title should be even more praised since he didn't do it at a catch weight and Ruiz outweighed him by what? 40 lbs?Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuExactly. Which is the exact reason I have Mayweather to school Pac. Mayweather is the greatest counter puncher and has the best boxing brain of any fighter in the world today. For me that is what will make him dominate Pac who likes to pick off these fighter who just keep walking him down all night and being pummelled for their troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMarquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Oscar was a great boxer in his day BUT I don't think he should have agreed to make Welter, and he had already shown he wasn't the force he once was when he fought Forbes. Don't want to take it away from Pac though as I think he is the greatest weight climber of all time, but I truly believe he will more than meet his match if he fights Floyd.
it's not a knock on Pacquiao, but i think what makes his accomplishments special is more WHO he has beaten rather than how many titles or weight classes he's jumped up in
Because Jones' losses since then have 'apparently' put into question how great he is, accomplishments of the past be darned its all flushed down the pike because anyone can pick apart a record.
If Jones had retired after he fought Tarver the first time you'd be hearing he was the greatest since Ray Robinson and when it came time to bite the bullet he faced it flawlessly. That didn't happen and people ignore his accomplishments and pick them apart instead.
Same thing will happen to Pacquiao(in america) if Mayweather beats him one sidedly.
I mean come on, Pacquiao is a guy HBO said Zahir Raheem would trouble after he lost to Morales and Raheem beat him. Remember HBO said that Raheem was a slick boxer counter puncher and someone to keep Pacquiao AWAY from.
But now, they are trying to make you believe he has the greatest chance of beating Mayweather.
If he loses, the same things will happen. One thing I will give a fighter that is fighting for their country like in the Phillipines. Is that they will stand behind Pacquiao even after if Mayweather dominated him. While I'm willing to bet here in the US all the picking apart of his record will begin on a much larger scale.
Sad, yes, but that's how its been going. You build a guy up for 10 years only to try to pick him apart in a manner of months.
Apparently around here your victories mean absolutely squat if there is a reason to criticize you for them, win or loss. No fighter out there has flawless performances, no one. But tell that to the people that hate on every performance they've had where they faced adversity.
I kind of find it hilarious how people always refuse to give credit to a fighter until they've faced adversity. And then once they've faced adversity, use it as a reason of weakness against them.
This. I've always thought the idea that Raheem or Nate Campbell would have beaten Pacquiao is laughable, he's just on a different level to those guys. It's like the idea that Mayweather should have fought Paul Spadafora rather than moving up to 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogThe Morales fight needed to be taken first, because that was his conqueror, the man that manhandled him in the ring and mocked him by fighting southpaw in the final round.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherNo one said defensive first. He should have faced Raheem after he schooled Morrales, but took the easier fight instead. The rest is history. Don't see how facing Margarito made more sense than facing Berto or Collazo unless it was all about money first.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
As for Manny, he's going to get criticized no matter who he faces, when you are 1/2 of the face of boxing right now it happens. An example would be people were saying Pac ducked Nate Cambell and should have fought him after testing the water at 135 after fighting David Diaz, instead of De La Hoya. Now who the hell would turn down 15 or 16 million to fight Nate Cambell for maybe 2 or 3 million? Shit was ridiculous. Or that he ducked Bradley when Hatton was considered to be the man and lineal champ at 140. That fight he got paid 13 million. So he should have fought Bradley for maybe 2 or 3 million who's only a beltholder? Come on, that doesn't make sense financially or in boxing terms.
Now there could be a reasonable argument that he "ducked" Shane after Cotto, but it was expected he would fight Mayweather, until negotiations broke down between both parties and if I"m not mistaken Shane was going to fight Berto until the earthquake happened and then the Floyd-Mosley fight happened.
I'm a firm believer that at the elite level, guys aren't afraid of each other. Fights don't happen for various reasons. See B-Hop/Jones as an example. Took what 17 years for a 2nd fight to happen.
I definitely agree with that in bold, particularly given the opposition that these guys have to get to the top. The only exceptions I can possibly think of would be Bowe/Lewis & maybe Haye with the Klitschkos, although I don't really buy that, I think he's just milking it for now.
I think more often its a case that the trainers or promoters aren't keen to put their guys in with other guys who may pose a bad style match up. But, really the only guys who would now be beating people like Pac & PBF are guys who are the best there is, which simply doesn't describe the likes of Raheem & Nate, even though I am a big Nate fan.
that could very well be, but if you've seen almost all of pac's fight there's just no quit in him. i remember the sasakul fight when pacquiao was being schooled all throughout the match but he kept attacking the thai fighter landing only now and then and finally knocking him out. it's possible a fight with floyd would be like that, only at a highest level.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuExactly. Which is the exact reason I have Mayweather to school Pac. Mayweather is the greatest counter puncher and has the best boxing brain of any fighter in the world today. For me that is what will make him dominate Pac who likes to pick off these fighter who just keep walking him down all night and being pummelled for their troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMarquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Oscar was a great boxer in his day BUT I don't think he should have agreed to make Welter, and he had already shown he wasn't the force he once was when he fought Forbes. Don't want to take it away from Pac though as I think he is the greatest weight climber of all time, but I truly believe he will more than meet his match if he fights Floyd.
that what makes pac-floyd matchup intriguing. i'm rooting for pac but no one can be totally sure how it will turn out.
I think to this day his win against Sasakul is his most impressive victory. To be a lineal champ in your teenage years is very rare. He beat Sasakul for the lineal flyweight championship at 19. In boxing history you can only count on 1 hand of the other guys accomplishing that feat. I can only name Benitez and Canzoneri as the other 2, there could possibly be more but that's all I can think of right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserthat could very well be, but if you've seen almost all of pac's fight there's just no quit in him. i remember the sasakul fight when pacquiao was being schooled all throughout the match but he kept attacking the thai fighter landing only now and then and finally knocking him out. it's possible a fight with floyd would be like that, only at a highest level.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuExactly. Which is the exact reason I have Mayweather to school Pac. Mayweather is the greatest counter puncher and has the best boxing brain of any fighter in the world today. For me that is what will make him dominate Pac who likes to pick off these fighter who just keep walking him down all night and being pummelled for their troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMarquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Oscar was a great boxer in his day BUT I don't think he should have agreed to make Welter, and he had already shown he wasn't the force he once was when he fought Forbes. Don't want to take it away from Pac though as I think he is the greatest weight climber of all time, but I truly believe he will more than meet his match if he fights Floyd.
that what makes pac-floyd matchup intriguing. i'm rooting for pac but no one can be totally sure how it will turn out.
Bulldog. This could actually make a great thread in itself. I immediately thought Salvador Sanchez MUST have been in his teens but thank god I checked it out first as he was an ancient 21 and 1 month when he won his world title.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogI think to this day his win against Sasakul is his most impressive victory. To be a lineal champ in your teenage years is very rare. He beat Sasakul for the lineal flyweight championship at 19. In boxing history you can only count on 1 hand of the other guys accomplishing that feat. I can only name Benitez and Canzoneri as the other 2, there could possibly be more but that's all I can think of right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserthat could very well be, but if you've seen almost all of pac's fight there's just no quit in him. i remember the sasakul fight when pacquiao was being schooled all throughout the match but he kept attacking the thai fighter landing only now and then and finally knocking him out. it's possible a fight with floyd would be like that, only at a highest level.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuExactly. Which is the exact reason I have Mayweather to school Pac. Mayweather is the greatest counter puncher and has the best boxing brain of any fighter in the world today. For me that is what will make him dominate Pac who likes to pick off these fighter who just keep walking him down all night and being pummelled for their troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMarquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Oscar was a great boxer in his day BUT I don't think he should have agreed to make Welter, and he had already shown he wasn't the force he once was when he fought Forbes. Don't want to take it away from Pac though as I think he is the greatest weight climber of all time, but I truly believe he will more than meet his match if he fights Floyd.
that what makes pac-floyd matchup intriguing. i'm rooting for pac but no one can be totally sure how it will turn out.
I will be thinking all night now about who else was a world champ in their teens lol.
Marvin Sonsona.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuBulldog. This could actually make a great thread in itself. I immediately thought Salvador Sanchez MUST have been in his teens but thank god I checked it out first as he was an ancient 21 and 1 month when he won his world title.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogI think to this day his win against Sasakul is his most impressive victory. To be a lineal champ in your teenage years is very rare. He beat Sasakul for the lineal flyweight championship at 19. In boxing history you can only count on 1 hand of the other guys accomplishing that feat. I can only name Benitez and Canzoneri as the other 2, there could possibly be more but that's all I can think of right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserthat could very well be, but if you've seen almost all of pac's fight there's just no quit in him. i remember the sasakul fight when pacquiao was being schooled all throughout the match but he kept attacking the thai fighter landing only now and then and finally knocking him out. it's possible a fight with floyd would be like that, only at a highest level.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuExactly. Which is the exact reason I have Mayweather to school Pac. Mayweather is the greatest counter puncher and has the best boxing brain of any fighter in the world today. For me that is what will make him dominate Pac who likes to pick off these fighter who just keep walking him down all night and being pummelled for their troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMarquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Oscar was a great boxer in his day BUT I don't think he should have agreed to make Welter, and he had already shown he wasn't the force he once was when he fought Forbes. Don't want to take it away from Pac though as I think he is the greatest weight climber of all time, but I truly believe he will more than meet his match if he fights Floyd.
that what makes pac-floyd matchup intriguing. i'm rooting for pac but no one can be totally sure how it will turn out.
I will be thinking all night now about who else was a world champ in their teens lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinThis. I've always thought the idea that Raheem or Nate Campbell would have beaten Pacquiao is laughable, he's just on a different level to those guys. It's like the idea that Mayweather should have fought Paul Spadafora rather than moving up to 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogThe Morales fight needed to be taken first, because that was his conqueror, the man that manhandled him in the ring and mocked him by fighting southpaw in the final round.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherNo one said defensive first. He should have faced Raheem after he schooled Morrales, but took the easier fight instead. The rest is history. Don't see how facing Margarito made more sense than facing Berto or Collazo unless it was all about money first.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
As for Manny, he's going to get criticized no matter who he faces, when you are 1/2 of the face of boxing right now it happens. An example would be people were saying Pac ducked Nate Cambell and should have fought him after testing the water at 135 after fighting David Diaz, instead of De La Hoya. Now who the hell would turn down 15 or 16 million to fight Nate Cambell for maybe 2 or 3 million? Shit was ridiculous. Or that he ducked Bradley when Hatton was considered to be the man and lineal champ at 140. That fight he got paid 13 million. So he should have fought Bradley for maybe 2 or 3 million who's only a beltholder? Come on, that doesn't make sense financially or in boxing terms.
Now there could be a reasonable argument that he "ducked" Shane after Cotto, but it was expected he would fight Mayweather, until negotiations broke down between both parties and if I"m not mistaken Shane was going to fight Berto until the earthquake happened and then the Floyd-Mosley fight happened.
I'm a firm believer that at the elite level, guys aren't afraid of each other. Fights don't happen for various reasons. See B-Hop/Jones as an example. Took what 17 years for a 2nd fight to happen.
I definitely agree with that in bold, particularly given the opposition that these guys have to get to the top. The only exceptions I can possibly think of would be Bowe/Lewis & maybe Haye with the Klitschkos, although I don't really buy that, I think he's just milking it for now.
I think more often its a case that the trainers or promoters aren't keen to put their guys in with other guys who may pose a bad style match up. But, really the only guys who would now be beating people like Pac & PBF are guys who are the best there is, which simply doesn't describe the likes of Raheem & Nate, even though I am a big Nate fan.
You might be using too much hindsight. Meaning thinking of the much improved Pac vs the one that faced Moralles. At that time, Raheem would have beaten him. After watching what he did to Morrales, Roach clearly made Pac slow his offense down in the Morrales rematch, because he saw that Morrales had fits with a more controlled boxer. I mean even when Barrera decided to slow down and pick his shots better he beat Morrales easier than in the wars they fough. I think Barrerra actually won all three.
But again, the Manny that fought Morrales, would have been beaten soundly by Raheem, don't know about Campbell because he wasn't ready yet. But as MAJESTY pointed out, that night Lampley was saying "I don't think Pac's people should put him anywhere near RAheem", and Emmanulle Steward who used to train Raheem said "absolutely because Raheem is very good slick boxer and can take a punch"...Right now I think Collazo would give him fits more so than Berto would.
Hiroki Ioka was only 19 when he became the first man to hold the WBC Minimumweight world title in 1987 :D
Do we count this as Lineal? The WBA didn't have a title until the following year but the IBF's champion had won his title a few months earlier than Ioka only to then lose to Ioka 22 days after Iokas 20th birthday.
He can't be seen as the Lineal champ surely though. Darchinyan was the real man then wasn't he?Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Marvin Sonsona.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuBulldog. This could actually make a great thread in itself. I immediately thought Salvador Sanchez MUST have been in his teens but thank god I checked it out first as he was an ancient 21 and 1 month when he won his world title.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogI think to this day his win against Sasakul is his most impressive victory. To be a lineal champ in your teenage years is very rare. He beat Sasakul for the lineal flyweight championship at 19. In boxing history you can only count on 1 hand of the other guys accomplishing that feat. I can only name Benitez and Canzoneri as the other 2, there could possibly be more but that's all I can think of right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKisserthat could very well be, but if you've seen almost all of pac's fight there's just no quit in him. i remember the sasakul fight when pacquiao was being schooled all throughout the match but he kept attacking the thai fighter landing only now and then and finally knocking him out. it's possible a fight with floyd would be like that, only at a highest level.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuExactly. Which is the exact reason I have Mayweather to school Pac. Mayweather is the greatest counter puncher and has the best boxing brain of any fighter in the world today. For me that is what will make him dominate Pac who likes to pick off these fighter who just keep walking him down all night and being pummelled for their troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMarquez...without question. Marquez is a true technician...intelligent and skilled. That is why his timing and counter punching gave Pac fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Oscar was a great boxer in his day BUT I don't think he should have agreed to make Welter, and he had already shown he wasn't the force he once was when he fought Forbes. Don't want to take it away from Pac though as I think he is the greatest weight climber of all time, but I truly believe he will more than meet his match if he fights Floyd.
that what makes pac-floyd matchup intriguing. i'm rooting for pac but no one can be totally sure how it will turn out.
I will be thinking all night now about who else was a world champ in their teens lol.
Raheem was a lightweight, fighting at the 135lb limit during these period in question. Pac's trilogy with Erik Morales, more or less in the same time frame, were all fought at the weight limit of 130lb or less.
These two statements will make a liar if not delusional, of people claiming and in so doing, indirectly accuse Manny Pacquiao of ducking slick fighter, Zahir Raheem. These claims makes no sense whatsoever, for simply at the time, Pac was still too smallish to campaign as a full pledged lightweight.
Funny how the mind works overtime for some people, conjuring scenarios less than factual, much ala Bernard Hopkins, just to dull and diminish whatever it is, Pacq's accomplishments in boxing.
We can all just laugh this off, and call it banter, but we could also turn the other way, and be rightful... by just simply being factual!
Raheem competed in both 130 and 135 at that time and in fact had just beaten but was robbed in texas after beating Rocky juarez at 130, before facing Morrales. Pac would have been school by Raheem at that time because he wasn't ready for the likes of that style.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
Haa. "burger king" Raheem ressurected! ;D
If Juarez could drop Raheem what makes people think that he could take Pacquaio's punch. Pacquiao will wear down Raheem just as he did to Morales and Barrera. Raheem has good skills but doesn't have the pop or the chin (still questionable) to withstand Pacquiao pressure adding to that he will be fighting a fighter as fast as he is.
Raheem beat Morales because almost all of Morales' competition don't run "for his life" like Raheem. While Pacquiao, during his entire life, has honed his predatory style to "perfection". There is no one out there who won't kiss Pac's super hard leather NO MATTER HOW SLICK or QUICK they are.
Just like what Manny Steward said, "When you're up against Pacquiao, you've got to be able to take a punch to begin with."
Pacquiao's
Manny Pacquiao - Boxer
Raheem's
Zahir Raheem - Boxer
Check this out so we are factual...
Last time Zahir was below 130, according to Boxrec, was 7-17-2004 against Juarez. But during his 4 previous fights prior, he fought them all, well above 130 lbs.
The other side of the story is that Pac on Boxrec, only fought above 130 lbs on 6-28-08. Going by dates, almost a difference of 4 years. Way longer an expanse in time than what one may call "within the time period".
Twist it, and turn it... any which way to suit! Conjure... it still comes out a falsehood!
I leave you with.... so who are we crapping now?
[/QUOTE] Raheem competed in both 130 and 135 at that time and in fact had just beaten but was robbed in texas after beating Rocky juarez at 130, before facing Morrales. Pac would have been school by Raheem at that time because he wasn't ready for the likes of that style.[/QUOTE]
Would? How about, could? ... and should. But don't ever forget the IF!
The only slick boxer that beats Pacman is Floyd, even then I believe the fight to be really close and not just a foregone conclusion.
Raheem and Campbell are just some of the names thrown around that would beat Pac.;D
Zab Judah was also mentioned (not here but other places) that would beat him. Alexander before his questionable win against Kotelnik was another guy touted as being able to beat him also. And who can forget Bradley, the guy people said Pac ducked to fight the lineal champ at 140 and to make 13 million.
Scoring knockdowns doesn't mean you win fights... Raheem still won the fight against Juarez. Didn't pac score 3 kds against JMM but only managed a draw?Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Steward also said that because RAHEEM had a good chin and is slick is why Pac shouldn't face him.
But i guess its all irrelevant. If pac goes the rest of his career never having faced a true prime boxer other than JMM, the one guy that arguably beat him twice. He will be called p4p top 5. If he fights and gets school by PBF or any other fighter with true boxing ability he will be held in the light in which he should.
If, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, fi, Master of the IF's...