De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

De La Hoya: Pacquiao Forces Boxers To Lose on The Scale - Boxing News

According to Oscar, Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scale first. He said Pacquiao forced him to move down to 147 and other opponents. He also is pushing for a 3rd fight with JMM at a preferred catchweight of 142 or 144 and that Marquez beat Pacquiao twice. He says it's the right thing for Pac to accomodate JMM and fight at a CW.


My thoughts are that Oscar is right, he never made any demands in his fight or to gain an advantage. I mean Oscar never made any demands for catchweights (Hopkins 156 for lineal MW title) or make opponents climb up in weight (Genaro Hernandez, Floyd and Pac) to fight him ever in his career. Oscar always maintained a fair and even playing field.;D

Fuck Oscar seriously. All that happened was Manny moved up two divisions (actually three if you don't count his single fight at lightweight) and Oscar moved down one.

It was no different to Sugar Shane moving back down from 154 to 147 at the same time as Oscar to fight Luis Collazo and Cotto etc.

Mosley managed it, Oscar didn't.

Tough. I guess sometimes even a saint must lose.

You also got to love the irony of Oscar claiming he's been picked on by a superfeatherweight.


Oscar chose the tiny pacman to move up three weight classes for what most thought (including him obviously) a ridiculously one sided fight in favour of the Golden Boy, where Oscar would make an obscene amount of money beating up on a little featherweight.

It backfired, in a truly epic way, and the Pacquaio legend was born. Since then he's been on a tear up, and Oscar has now rewrote history in his head and made out it was Manny being unfair.

Such a tool.

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

Oscar is a legend and has done great things for the sport, but never in Oscar's career where he was forced to do anything he didn't want. He was always the A-side of boxing and had advantages in his favor whether it's money, weight class, ring size, glove size, etc.

WBC should change there name to PAC.
Rules was made, and weight divisions in place. But if he's the bigger name and the money draw, he gets to make the rules I guess. I'll catchweight Manny at 135 for a big payday and I weight 220.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

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if that was the case then why bother?

it has put question marks over the win for pac against cotto but if they were just arguing over 1 pound then it hardly seems worth it

Just a bunch of horseshit coming out of Oscars mouth as usual. What was that crap about him feeling faster moving down to 147 on 24/7. He was still the A side fighter in their match up he had the lions share. He made Manny move up two divisions they didn't fight at a catch weight they fought at the welterweight limit. It's so typical of him just like the crap he said about the negotiations with the mayweather pacquaio fight. "Oh I just said there were negotiations to get the media off my back.":rolleyes: I liked the fighter De La Hoya was but the promoter De La Hoya is an asshat.

Don't like DLH but he's got this 100% right.

lol I have the real ODLH on facebook, and right after his fight with Manny, he was all looking for god and friends for support with this misty-eyed butt hurt talk reekin of insecurity...and yea know, I could understand it then. Even felt empathy for him after calling No Mas with the beating he was taking. It was the defining moment of the end of his career. That's a tough pill to swallow for a warrior heart.

Now he just sounds like a bitter sissy. Move the hell on dude.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

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So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

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So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

---

So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

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He said Manny was wrong to drag Oscar and Cotto down in weight. And it would be arrogant and disrespectful to make Marquez move up??

How did he not say that?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

---

So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

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He said Manny was wrong to drag Oscar and Cotto down in weight. And it would be arrogant and disrespectful to make Marquez move up??

How did he not say that?

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every situation is different dude

marquez is small COTTO IS BIG so you cant really group it together like you did, get me?

you suggested that it made no difference to bring cotto down a couple of pounds, if thats the case then why do it?

i like pacman, but id also like to see him go into a fight where there are no new rules

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

---

So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

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No, I don't quite think I was saying that either.

I think I was suggesting it to be a good idea for Manny to agree to go down a weight and ask Marquez to make an equal sacrifice in going up in weight and for them to both agree on sharing the difference at 140. Considering that most of the experts thought Marquez won the last fight, that would be the gentlemanly thing for Manny to do.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

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So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

---

He said Manny was wrong to drag Oscar and Cotto down in weight. And it would be arrogant and disrespectful to make Marquez move up??

How did he not say that?

---

I did not say Manny was wrong to drag Oscar down, I quite clearly said that Oscar did that of his own choosing. Cotto is a different matter, but likewise, I said he had the choice and also said he should have refused.

You have misread my posts. Not for the first time, I might add.

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

---

So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

---

He said Manny was wrong to drag Oscar and Cotto down in weight. And it would be arrogant and disrespectful to make Marquez move up??

How did he not say that?

---

every situation is different dude

marquez is small COTTO IS BIG so you cant really group it together like you did, get me?

you suggested that it made no difference to bring cotto down a couple of pounds, if thats the case then why do it?

i like pacman, but id also like to see him go into a fight where there are no new rules

---

It's to prevent one fighter from having an unfair size advantage on fight night.

In boxing fighters don't weigh in the same day of the fight, meaning that they can dehydrate to a weight less than their actual bodyweight and then rehydrate sometimes up to 10/15 lbs more for the fight itself, meaning that Manny would be fighting a far bigger man, as was the case against Margarito, where he weighed 17 pounds less!

If you want true fairness in the sport, the weigh in should be on the same day, to prevent fighters boiling down to fight in a weight class that they do not walk around in.

By having to weight 145 rather 146 Cotto had less potential to rehydrate to a weight significantly higher than Manny by the time of the fight itself.

It's not hard to understand why this was done.

What if they would have agreed a same day weigh in? Cotto could weight 147 but the weigh in must take place in the morning of the fight? That would have been fairer, and would have helped Manny a lot more.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

---

So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

---

i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

---

No, I don't quite think I was saying that either.

I think I was suggesting it to be a good idea for Manny to agree to go down a weight and ask Marquez to make an equal sacrifice in going up in weight and for them to both agree on sharing the difference at 140. Considering that most of the experts thought Marquez won the last fight, that would be the gentlemanly thing for Manny to do.

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Manny probably would go down a weight class back to welterweight to fight Marquez. What are you moaning about?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

---

So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

---

i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

---

No, I don't quite think I was saying that either.

I think I was suggesting it to be a good idea for Manny to agree to go down a weight and ask Marquez to make an equal sacrifice in going up in weight and for them to both agree on sharing the difference at 140. Considering that most of the experts thought Marquez won the last fight, that would be the gentlemanly thing for Manny to do.

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Manny probably would go down a weight class back to welterweight to fight Marquez. What are you moaning about?

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Marquez is not a WW fighter and Manny is not even a proper JMW. Why should Marquez fight at that weight? And why should a fight between two guys who can easily make JWW not take place at that weight? It is the perfect go between. Even that is heavier than any weight Marquez has ever been effective at before and to ask it at 37? Manny should grant him that.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

---

So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

---

i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

---

He said Manny was wrong to drag Oscar and Cotto down in weight. And it would be arrogant and disrespectful to make Marquez move up??

How did he not say that?

---

every situation is different dude

marquez is small COTTO IS BIG so you cant really group it together like you did, get me?

you suggested that it made no difference to bring cotto down a couple of pounds, if thats the case then why do it?

i like pacman, but id also like to see him go into a fight where there are no new rules

---

It's to prevent one fighter from having an unfair size advantage on fight night.

In boxing fighters don't weigh in the same day of the fight, meaning that they can dehydrate to a weight less than their actual bodyweight and then rehydrate sometimes up to 10/15 lbs more for the fight itself, meaning that Manny would be fighting a far bigger man, as was the case against Margarito, where he weighed 17 pounds less!

If you want true fairness in the sport, the weigh in should be on the same day, to prevent fighters boiling down to fight in a weight class that they do not walk around in.

By having to weight 145 rather 146 Cotto had less potential to rehydrate to a weight significantly higher than Manny by the time of the fight itself.

It's not hard to understand why this was done.

What if they would have agreed a same day weigh in? Cotto could weight 147 but the weigh in must take place in the morning of the fight? That would have been fairer, and would have helped Manny a lot more.

---

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

De La Hoya dictated the weight for his fight with Pacquiao not Pacquiao.
His :horseshit: tactic is really just about negotiating for Marquez. They want Pacquiao to at least 140 but are asking for 135. These two don't even need a weight-in. They both step into the ring at Welter.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

---

So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

---

i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

---

No, I don't quite think I was saying that either.

I think I was suggesting it to be a good idea for Manny to agree to go down a weight and ask Marquez to make an equal sacrifice in going up in weight and for them to both agree on sharing the difference at 140. Considering that most of the experts thought Marquez won the last fight, that would be the gentlemanly thing for Manny to do.

---

Manny probably would go down a weight class back to welterweight to fight Marquez. What are you moaning about?

---

Marquez is not a WW fighter and Manny is not even a proper JMW. Why should Marquez fight at that weight? And why should a fight between two guys who can easily make JWW not take place at that weight? It is the perfect go between. Even that is heavier than any weight Marquez has ever been effective at before and to ask it at 37? Manny should grant him that.

---

Manny is currently a junior middleweight world champion. You want him to drop two weight classes just fight a guy he got the decision against last time out, and who has been dominated when he went above lightweight, losing every single round to Floyd?

Why should he do that exactly? Who has the leverage here?

Manny should be fighting Floyd. If that fight cannot be made immediately he needs to stay in the same weight class not moving up and down. It would be detrimental to drop back down two weight classes to 140, and then move back up to 147 to hopefully fight Floyd in the future.

Also Marquez, is, or should be some way down the pecking order.

Floyd and Berto would be excellent fight choices, Martinez at light middle is not out of the question, although a monumental challenge for Manny.

Anyway, to my point above, do you not consider 24 hour weigh in an unfair advantage? I always have. The odds are always stacked against the smaller guy in boxing as no fighter has to actually fight at the weight they are supposed to.

Margarito weighed 165 lbs for his 154 lb fight with Manny. How is that fair? Just because that's how it's done?

I think instead of catchweights, a same day weigh in would be the fairest solution. And I believe that would be to Manny's benefit even more.

Marquez and Manny are on different paths now I think. Manny should be looking to the likes of Mayweather, Berto and maybe Martinez. Marquez should be looking at Khan, Alexander, Bradley and Judah.

Oscar is full of it. He was the one who put together and promoted Marquez and PBF's fight where Marquez was made to come up 10 pounds. I never heard Oscar say anything like this then. He's just bitter Manny made him quit.

I understand Marquez isn't proven above 135, but can we all agree that it doesn't mean he can't be effective above 135? I actually believe he'd beat everyone of Pac's recent foes (other than maybe Margartio at 150) at the weight Pac fought them. Disagree? Anyway, the only fight he had above 135 was against PBF and we can't really blame him for losing that.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

---

Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

---

If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

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So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

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No, I don't quite think I was saying that either.

I think I was suggesting it to be a good idea for Manny to agree to go down a weight and ask Marquez to make an equal sacrifice in going up in weight and for them to both agree on sharing the difference at 140. Considering that most of the experts thought Marquez won the last fight, that would be the gentlemanly thing for Manny to do.

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Manny probably would go down a weight class back to welterweight to fight Marquez. What are you moaning about?

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Marquez is not a WW fighter and Manny is not even a proper JMW. Why should Marquez fight at that weight? And why should a fight between two guys who can easily make JWW not take place at that weight? It is the perfect go between. Even that is heavier than any weight Marquez has ever been effective at before and to ask it at 37? Manny should grant him that.

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Manny is currently a junior middleweight world champion. You want him to drop two weight classes just fight a guy he got the decision against last time out, and who has been dominated when he went above lightweight, losing every single round to Floyd?

Why should he do that exactly? Who has the leverage here?

Manny should be fighting Floyd. If that fight cannot be made immediately he needs to stay in the same weight class not moving up and down. It would be detrimental to drop back down two weight classes to 140, and then move back up to 147 to hopefully fight Floyd in the future.

Also Marquez, is, or should be some way down the pecking order.

Floyd and Berto would be excellent fight choices, Martinez at light middle is not out of the question, although a monumental challenge for Manny.

Anyway, to my point above, do you not consider 24 hour weigh in an unfair advantage? I always have. The odds are always stacked against the smaller guy in boxing as no fighter has to actually fight at the weight they are supposed to.

Margarito weighed 165 lbs for his 154 lb fight with Manny. How is that fair? Just because that's how it's done?

I think instead of catchweights, a same day weigh in would be the fairest solution. And I believe that would be to Manny's benefit even more.

Marquez and Manny are on different paths now I think. Manny should be looking to the likes of Mayweather, Berto and maybe Martinez. Marquez should be looking at Khan, Alexander, Bradley and Judah.

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I would prefer Marquez to quit with the Manny objective, but considering that Arum has listed Marquez as one of 3 choices, I do think it important to try and make the case for Marquez in a fair way. Do you really want to see Marquez move up to 147 at 37 and go in with a guy who knows his way around that weight and has been busting up faces? You know what? I don't! It is not reasonable. Would you get satisfaction from seeing that? A smaller guy bulking up at an advancing age to face the guy who wasn't quite as good as him a few years ago but was able to buff himself up beyond anyones expectations? If the fight is to happen I want a level playing field, that is all. And I am biased? I don't think so. Just a boxing fan that wants decent fights. There is no sense in buffing up an old JLW unreasonably to face a WW. It just does not work.

You suggest Martinez, but that has been ruled out. Otherwise we have Berto. But Berto is rubbish. And Mosley is over the hill. I would prefer him to stay at 140 and clean out there, but if he can do that then there is no reason why a Marquez fight cannot happen at that weight.

I don't think Berto is ready for a Pac fight yet. I suggest Berto fight Mosley or Berto and/or Mosley fight Marquez for a shot at Pac. I like the Marquez trilogy idea, but I agree with Miles, I would like to see Marquez prove himself above 135 first - even at 140. In the time being once Bradley beats Alexander in January, he could step up and fight Pacquiao in April. He's done more to prove himself at 147 than Marquez has.

1. Bradley
2. Marquez/Berto/Mosley - after they fight eachother.

And let's not forget the most important factor, Bilbo. We all want Mayweather/Pacquiao, but that fight just ain't happening.

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Originally Posted by miles

And let's not forget the most important factor, Bilbo. We all want Mayweather/Pacquiao, but that fight just ain't happening.

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I think that's more Floyd's doing than Manny's though.

I really don't see why moving up would be a disadvantage to Marquez any more than it is to Manny?

Both fighters are the same size. Manny has no natural size advantage over Marquez.

If you feel that Manny carries his extra size better, you may have a point. Certainly it seems not to have affected his speed much, and he seems to be stronger now. Maybe Marquez is better below a certain weight, but we no evidence of that other than the fact that Floyd dominated him with ease. But then Floyd, is, well Floyd, and what's to say he wouldn't handle Manny just as easily?

If you want to argue that Marquez is not as effective at the higher weight, you have to equally accept that Manny has proven more effective there, than at superfeatherweight, where he admittedly struggled with Juan Manuel in his final fight there.

Manny is clearly fighting better at 147 so why should he disadvantage himself moving down?

It isn't Manny who needs to chase anybody,as I said earlier he is the prize, and if Marquez really wants him he will, and in my opinion should, be the one who has to go to the champ.

The mountain didn't come to Muhammad after all.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

And let's not forget the most important factor, Bilbo. We all want Mayweather/Pacquiao, but that fight just ain't happening.

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I think that's more Floyd's doing than Manny's though.

I really don't see why moving up would be a disadvantage to Marquez any more than it is to Manny?

Both fighters are the same size. Manny has no natural size advantage over Marquez.

If you feel that Manny carries his extra size better, you may have a point. Certainly it seems not to have affected his speed much, and he seems to be stronger now. Maybe Marquez is better below a certain weight, but we no evidence of that other than the fact that Floyd dominated him with ease. But then Floyd, is, well Floyd, and what's to say he wouldn't handle Manny just as easily?

If you want to argue that Marquez is not as effective at the higher weight, you have to equally accept that Manny has proven more effective there, than at superfeatherweight, where he admittedly struggled with Juan Manuel in his final fight there.

Manny is clearly fighting better at 147 so why should he disadvantage himself moving down?

It isn't Manny who needs to chase anybody,as I said earlier he is the prize, and if Marquez really wants him he will, and in my opinion should, be the one who has to go to the champ.

The mountain didn't come to Muhammad after all.

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I think we are finally getting to a point of agreement.

I want to see Floyd against Pac as much as anyone and the biggest obstacle has been Floyd. But I don't blame him, Manny since moving up has been a freak! Manny wasn't breaking jawbones 5 years ago. And in recent years he has broken the orbital bones of two very strong WW's. That isn't normal.

No, I agree with you. Marquez has been a great boxer in the lower weights and somehow Pac has gone up and become something else. I really don't want Marquez to face that something else. Not unless it means an even playing field and that does mean JWW. But to be honest, I would rather they both moved elsewhere as they are never going to agree on weight and it will not be in the favour of Marquez.

You call me biased, but again that is another slur you have put upon me. I am actually very supportive of Manny and especially want to see him defeat Mayweather, but in no way do I want to see easy matchups against people way outside their weight classes.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

I don't think Berto is ready for a Pac fight yet. I suggest Berto fight Mosley or Berto and/or Mosley fight Marquez for a shot at Pac. I like the Marquez trilogy idea, but I agree with Miles, I would like to see Marquez prove himself above 135 first - even at 140. In the time being once Bradley beats Alexander in January, he could step up and fight Pacquiao in April. He's done more to prove himself at 147 than Marquez has.

1. Bradley
2. Marquez/Berto/Mosley - after they fight eachother.

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What JMM proved already, is that he gave Pacman a better fight then any opponent since(I did like the Pacman vs Diaz fight). Berto should fight Mosley but not as an eliminator. He have to walk across the street alone at some point. Since Mosely is consider over the hill, will Mosley consider a tune up? Don't think so?
Bradley proved himself? What fight was that proven? If nothing else, Bradley vs Berto should have been the fight instead of Bradley vs Abregu at 147.

Oscar in "Being a hypocrite shock." ;D

Well i never.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

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Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.

How is that fair?

Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.

Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.

Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.

That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.

Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

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Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.

How is that fair?

Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.

Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.

Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.

That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.

Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.

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I am in the minority that believes same day weigh-ins should be the norm. But the logic of having an unfair advantage by using the normal rules of a weight class is ridiculous. That would be like Qatar's soccer team play against England's but England wouldn't be allowed to have a goalie or any player to enter their own penalty box. Wait, bad example, but still you get the point. Margarito coming in heavier isn't anything out of the norm for the division, noone is forcing Pacquiao to move up in weight, if he chooses to fight there, he should fight in the terms of the division if it's too much of a disadvantage then fight in a lower weight class, that's what we have weight classes for.

The fairest system is to completely ban Catch weights... And then get rid of the completely TOXIC 24-hour prior weight-ins, resorting back to same day weigh-ins but then enforce and regulate rules regarding any competitors weight at various critical stages of from the lead-up, right up until the fight (starting at the date of signing or even negotiation).

That way, you wont get a bunch of Middleweights fighting at Welterweigt, some of which are straining to make lightwelterweight to fight a Welterweight ;)

and for the record ODLH is being a douche bag.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

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Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

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If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

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So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

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He said Manny was wrong to drag Oscar and Cotto down in weight. And it would be arrogant and disrespectful to make Marquez move up??

How did he not say that?

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every situation is different dude

marquez is small COTTO IS BIG so you cant really group it together like you did, get me?

you suggested that it made no difference to bring cotto down a couple of pounds, if thats the case then why do it?

i like pacman, but id also like to see him go into a fight where there are no new rules

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It's to prevent one fighter from having an unfair size advantage on fight night.

In boxing fighters don't weigh in the same day of the fight, meaning that they can dehydrate to a weight less than their actual bodyweight and then rehydrate sometimes up to 10/15 lbs more for the fight itself, meaning that Manny would be fighting a far bigger man, as was the case against Margarito, where he weighed 17 pounds less!

If you want true fairness in the sport, the weigh in should be on the same day, to prevent fighters boiling down to fight in a weight class that they do not walk around in.

By having to weight 145 rather 146 Cotto had less potential to rehydrate to a weight significantly higher than Manny by the time of the fight itself.

It's not hard to understand why this was done.

What if they would have agreed a same day weigh in? Cotto could weight 147 but the weigh in must take place in the morning of the fight? That would have been fairer, and would have helped Manny a lot more.

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when rehydrating, is a starting weight of 1lb less gonna make that much difference? The only purpose i can see it serving is to put as much extra strain on cottos body as posible

I think same day weigh ins have cause a lot of health problems havent they?

like i said man i like pacman, and i will continue to tune in, i would just like to see him fight for the welterweight title at welterweight

as a result of all the money and possibilities after victory that were offered to cotto he took the fight at the agreed catch weight, thats fair enough, the posible gains outweighed the risks.

as a result i dont think pacmans welterweight or lightmiddleweight world titles are the most legitimate

for the record, i think he would have won anyway

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

I don't think Berto is ready for a Pac fight yet. I suggest Berto fight Mosley or Berto and/or Mosley fight Marquez for a shot at Pac. I like the Marquez trilogy idea, but I agree with Miles, I would like to see Marquez prove himself above 135 first - even at 140. In the time being once Bradley beats Alexander in January, he could step up and fight Pacquiao in April. He's done more to prove himself at 147 than Marquez has.

1. Bradley
2. Marquez/Berto/Mosley - after they fight eachother.

---

What JMM proved already, is that he gave Pacman a better fight then any opponent since(I did like the Pacman vs Diaz fight). Berto should fight Mosley but not as an eliminator. He have to walk across the street alone at some point. Since Mosely is consider over the hill, will Mosley consider a tune up? Don't think so?
Bradley proved himself? What fight was that proven? If nothing else, Bradley vs Berto should have been the fight instead of Bradley vs Abregu at 147.

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Bradley only proved himself in the sense that he has won a fight at 147, even if it is against Abregu. He showed that he could compete at that size. He also has the best resume at 140 with solid victories at 140 over Nate Campbell, Lamont Peterson, Kendall Holt, and Junior Witter etc. And his next fight is a unification fight against the second (or third) best junior welterweight around in Devon Alexander plus it's on HBO. Bradley is an Afro American fighter too and Pacquiao has received criticism for not fighting Afro American fighters. At 27, Bradley is in his prime - Marquez is 37 and Mosley is 39.

Marquez was Pac's toughest opponent, but that was at 130. In a perfect world, Pacquiao would fight Marquez at 135, but Pacquiao has grown too much for that weight class. Marquez has never fought at 140 and lost his only fight at 147. I'm not sure a Pacquiao/Marquez fight at 147 is a great fight until Marquez beats someone worthwhile at 147 or at least at 140.

Mosley doesn't have to fight Berto, Marquez could fight Mosley at 147 for a chance against Pacquiao. It's a relatively big money fight. That way, we see if Marquez can handle 147 and if Mosley is too aged to pose a challenge against Pacquiao.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

I hate all these catchweights and wish Manny would stop playing games with them, but having said that DLH should be the last person to be criticising Manny on this.

Cotto at 145 was unfair, but Cotto should have turned it down. Likewise, I hope Marquez sees sense and stays away from Pac if it is anything above 140. It is just not worth it. At 37 he cannot handle the weight like the younger Manny can. Marquez is a naturally smaller fighter.

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Was it really relevant though? Cotto only weighed 146 for his fight against Joshua Clottey.

I don't really called losing a single pound a deal breaker. I know (as AdamGB will doubtless explain to me) a certain point below which fighters cannot drop, but 145 isn't it for Cotto. He has come up from the lower weights and weighed as low as 136 against Mallignaggi in June 2006.

Cotto would have got massacred catchweight or not, and only would have weighed a pound more.

The idea that Manny always fights at catchweight is completely overblown. Oscar wasn't a catchweight, it was at 147. Hatton wasn't at catchweight, it was at junior welter, Ricky's weight class. Clottey wasn't at catchweight either, it was at welter. Margarito was at 150 lbs but I don't see how this was at a detriment to Margarito considered he weighed under 146 against Shane Mosley only two fights previously.


Critics and moaners will always exist, but what Manny has done has been sensational.

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If it wasn't relevant then why was it there? I'm sure it wasn't Cotto begging to come in at 145. The fight should have been at 147 with no questions asked. WW was a weight that Cotto had grown into. They also suggested ages back that they would only fight Mosley if he could boil down to 142. As if Mosley could ever make 142.

The DLH fight was old orange faces fault, so no blame can be put at Manny's door. And I agree that the Margarito catchweight was less questionable, it was certainly no advantage for Manny. That was a strange one.

I would just like to see title fights at the correct weights. I don't really see the need for CW's and I certainly see no reason why the worlds best fighter should be looking for little short cuts so that his nights work can be even easier.

Suggesting Marquez go anywhere north of JWW is extremely arrogant and disrespectful considering that Manny was extremely lucky to get the nod in that last fight. Manny is the one with something to prove so to stop the fight with demands before it even starts is unfair. At least offer the fans something credible like with the DLH fight. Let Manny come down a division and let Marquez go up one and meet at JWW. Anything more is just being greedy and stopping the potential of a great fight before it even starts. Marquez hasn't proven he can fight at the higher weights and Manny has shown no good reason why he couldn't make JWW.

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So what you are saying is that when a fighter drops weight to meet Manny, they are at a disadvantage, and when a fighter must gain weight to fight Manny they are equally disadvantaged. The only fair solution is that Manny must yoyo up and down the divisions, no catchweights to beat all his challengers, even though he is the prize and the big payday.

Maybe he should be forced to wear lead boots as well, or have one arm tied behind his back if he starts to dominate the early rounds?

Also how is Manny the one with something to prove? Since beating Marquez he has won world titles in four more weight classes and is the p4p best fighter in the world. I have never met anyone with as blinkered a view on things as you Miles. You are the most biased person I've ever met!

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i dont think he said that no bro

its funny sometimes this forum :)

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No, I don't quite think I was saying that either.

I think I was suggesting it to be a good idea for Manny to agree to go down a weight and ask Marquez to make an equal sacrifice in going up in weight and for them to both agree on sharing the difference at 140. Considering that most of the experts thought Marquez won the last fight, that would be the gentlemanly thing for Manny to do.

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Miles did you know Pac did JMM a favor by not moving up right away and giving the fight to JMM at JMM's current division? Pacs camp always were in the brink of moving up a division when Pac fights JMM but Pac postpones the move up and gives JMM the fight. JMM has had plenty of opportunities already, he comes up short.

Pac reached his prime above lightweight - I dont see why he should move back below that. The lowest Pac should go down is 140 and you are right they should fight at that weight. But its funny the same people who root for pacs defeat are the same people who are quick to scream blasphemy when there is a catchweight.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by killersheep

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

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Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.

How is that fair?

Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.

Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.

Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.

That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.

Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.

---

I am in the minority that believes same day weigh-ins should be the norm. But the logic of having an unfair advantage by using the normal rules of a weight class is ridiculous. That would be like Qatar's soccer team play against England's but England wouldn't be allowed to have a goalie or any player to enter their own penalty box. Wait, bad example, but still you get the point. Margarito coming in heavier isn't anything out of the norm for the division, noone is forcing Pacquiao to move up in weight, if he chooses to fight there, he should fight in the terms of the division if it's too much of a disadvantage then fight in a lower weight class, that's what we have weight classes for.

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I don't see how Manny has an 'unfair' advantage though? The unfairness arises out of the 24 hour window that allows fighters to fight in weight class in which they are too big.

If fighters were not allowed to enter the ring above the weight limit then it would be a whole different ball game and much better for the sport. As it stands, every bigger man has an unfair advantage every time they enter the ring thanks to not having to actually weigh on fight night what they are supposed to according to the weight limit.

I just can't see how people can't see both sides of the coin here?

If a fighter can enter the ring 10 or even 15 lbs more than the weight limit how is that fair?

By asking for a catchweight all Manny is doing is ensuring that a fighter cannot rehydrate to such a high level, thus negating the advantage they would otherwise be able to accumalate.

If having to weight 2 lbs less than the max weight limit for the fight 24 hours before is too much of a strain for the bigger man, then clearly they are fighting in a weight class that is too small for them.

When a smaller guy is moving up, a catchweight is actually a fair fight.

In the case of Miguel Cotto for example, he weighed over the 147 lb weight limit by the time he stepped in the ring with Manny. So imo it was a full welterweight fight.

Catchweights wouldn't need to exist if the sport was more fair in the first place.