http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMU7wQJzNHc
good luck
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What i wanted to say is this: its bad to watch as a beginer clips which are promoting bad habits and technique while misleading on the positioning!
which bad habits? there is a gem in here i rarely see talked about, that is keep the eyes on the opponent. helps keep chin in the shoulder
Sorry ICEMAN, but i can't find my self a place when i see how someone is destroying something that i love! This type of missinformation for me is even warse than counterinteligence! In counterinteligence you are laying for some REASON. Here this man is laying because of IGNORANCE! For me both are sins! The sport of boxing is full of "trainenrs" who are laying the kids. The warse part of it is not that they want to take the money from the kids. The warse is that they don't care about what they are doing! This leads to degradation not only of the sport, who we so much love, but of the socaiaty in which we are living! Because of this ceap missinformation we turn ourselfs in ignorant, stuped, NON THINKING CONSUMERS. I don't know how many sins i have sayed till now, but i know one thing. I don't want my kids to grow that way and i am going to make all possible to change it!
?? now ya lost me. i hear what you are saying, but i asked what you didn't like, as in your critiscism so i can learn from you? cause i may be wrong but i do like most of what i saw...so please tell me so i can learn.
First there is reasons to learn the basics first in every single sport! If you have them then everything will go much smoother. You are going to generate power with your shots, be solid in your defence and don't go fast out of gas. Second the bad habits are so much that i don't know from where to start. Lets say throwing left hook on some one going backwards is not the brightest idea. Just go in the chanel of the guy and see his films. They speak for themselves. If your oponent is going backwards the corect way not only you are going to miss but you put yourself in so bad position to be countered. Just watch the amatiors there and then switch to the "profis"... Than the idea of flayering the elbows... See kimbo is new in the sport. He is going to copy this "trainer". Then he will watch some "profi" making the same mistakes. Then he is going to try them and get his head off. And why? Because someone has told some bullsh^^ on the internet not giving a sh&& about Kimbo.
Sorry while i was writting the first replay i havent seen yours..
hmm, depending on the movement i throw a hook at a guy moving backwards, mainly to keep him going that way. as for the elbow, i also do tend to move it as it seems to fit the situation. and like i said i see most people look past the body and expose the side of their head. also people tend to get the punch in front of the body not following...those are my points. i agree there are things i don't like but i try a lot and decide what works from the point of does it score. chasing hooks or bounding hooks i don't like. seen them work but not a huge fan
They work because they capitalize on the mistake that the oder boxer is doing. Not staying on the back leg and he is not taking his head with the step. And if he is going backwards while loading on the back leg he is going to shoot the most powerful right that he can throw while you are going forwards... Its a recepy for desaster. The idea of punching infront of you is good. It explaynes the problem that comes from punching the heavy bag... The boxers are used to punch the fat bag. No one has head like this.
gotta disagree on going back as a good tactic...never ran into a cross as the guy going back only has time to do one thing,go back... he has to re-set and re-evaluate before he can throw most anything. true some can fight going backwards but not many
See going backwards and pulling away are 2 really different things. First if you stay in your corect stance your head will be of the center to your right(for orthodox). This means it will be at the furdest distance from your oponents right hand. In this position we can not talk for right cross. I have written a post befor a week or so about the right cross. There you can see Kenny Weldon (someone who knows something about boxing not like me) explaining it. So from this position if i go backwards with taking my head with the leg rotating my front leg and sholders i have acomplished 4 defensive manuvers in one. First the sholder row then this makes my head to go even further off the center. So i have sliped a punch in the same movement. Then it comes the loading on the right hand which i can use as a reaction punch (this makes 3). And on the last place going away from your left hook. So in this position i am secure, i can throw punches and i can move. Here are some examples what you can do with this movement:
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...-videos-3.html (at about 4 min)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sv1ph-Ecf0 (at 5:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqn1sdASJJA (at 1:45)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ed7-_VSQHI&feature=related (at 4:46 there is more on our dicution)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xo0579_8cI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2PutDflPYo&feature=related (at 1:40 to the end)
So this are the reasons why i think going backwards is really solid move!
Now lets talk about the pull away. On my mind comes Muhamed Ali. He is constantly making this pull away and get hit so many times. Hire is a small example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTiIoJMK6H8 (at 6:40)
YouTube - gggleeson68's Channel (and all the guys in this clip)
Between this movements there is so much difference!
I just thought I'd offer a couple of the issues that I had with this video, hopefully I don't come across as purely critical.
0.40 "A straight punch is the shortest distance between you and your target."
I had great difficulty digesting this comment. In Boxing I was taught a European style. The Jab was taught as a long straight punch used as a "defensive weapon." The right straight was a powerful scoring punch from range. However, both straight punches and their adaptations for scoring to the body were long range punches. From an audio visual perspective, this coach punches in front of his body, limiting his reach and range in my opinion.
3.25 "I've seen lots of people knocked out with bad left hooks that have done a good job of landing on target."
I see the point here, but feel there is a treacherous flaw in the train of thought. A left hook that lands does carry some force even if technique is less than impeccable. However, a fighter should never voluntarily sacrifice technique for the sake of landing a single punch. Sacrificing the technique of a punch compromises balance, power and most significantly defence.
6.00 "The basic stock standard left hook compromises of only a couple of fundamentals."
I find this statement nonchalant and perhaps negligent. It took me a long time to learn how to throw a left hook and a very good trainer had to take me aside and completely manipulate my technique. It is an easy punch to throw once you know how, but it is my belief this man does not as visually he demonstrates arm punching techniques later in the video.
I hope that I did not come across as negative here. I too am trying to learn and from what I have learned so far I came to those conclusions.
I didn't want to sound so critical, but the problem is that this video is made for beginers and there the fundamentals must be clean as possible. Teaching the beginers such kind of stuff won't make them any good.
I'm not too sure about throwing that wide left hook off the front foot- easy way to get timedand knocked out, leaping in wide open and chin first. Also, with all your weight on the front foot, what do you throw next? Certainly not a right hand of any type. I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to my favorite punch; I like good, short, countering hooks, where you get your weight onto your right foot and whip the punch through. If you insist on leading with left hooks, try this: slide your right foot maybe two inches dead right (not forward at all), then hook. If you can find it, the first knockdown in the Al Hostak/Freddie Steele fight came off this move, and James Toney used it as well against Freddie Delgado.
Last, I personally believe that, by landing your hook with the palm down you are just begging for hand and wrist problems. Wait until you land a hard hook on those small outside knuckles (and push them up under your elbow), or your opponent ducks and you land on top of his head and bend your wrist inward. In Phoenix I was familiar with a gym that taught that style of landing a punch and everyone of those guys visibly winced when he threw a left hook. I belive it comes from the goofy scoring rules in amateur boxing and is an effort to make a punch more visibly land on the white portion.
Grey I agree with the first portion of your post, but I have always wondered about the second part.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
I was always told, James J. Corbett invented the left hook specifically because he wanted to protect the index and centre knucles. (as depicted in Monte Cox in "James j. Corbett, a turning point in pugilism")
Early in my boxing days I experienced the symptoms you described, pain in the outer knuckles, shock in my wrists and some discomfort to the shoulder. As my technique developed and in recent times I was finally taught the correct way to throw this punch I experienced much less discomfort. However, I believe that a hook from Middle or close distance is inefficient when thrown with the palm to the floor. Throwing the punch as if gripping a hypothetical vertical bar seems to be far more comfortable there. So just interested in what peoples opinions are on that subjecxt
I land always with palm perpendicular to the flor because of the heavy bag. I can't land it there with palm paralel to the flor. Its a bad habit because the hook goes wider and the line of force is not colinear to the hand. Normally short hooks must be executed with the palm perpendicular to the flor and with increasing distance the thumb rolls up...
I've always read/been taught/believed that the hook should be thrown with the thumb and palm inward- as if grabbing a vertical pole, as you describe., Also, my understanding of Corbett's "invention" of the left hook was that it was to protect the outside knuckles, as it was customary at that time (and I think depictions of bareknuckle fights will bear me out on this) to land a jab with the thumb up, hence putting the small knuckles at greater risk.
Understood. Earlier in the thread you expressed your favour toward "short," left hooks. I think the thumb up technique certainly lends itself towards this practice. I would be a little concerned about hooking in this manner from range, but I have not experimented yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
I don't think that, from a distance, the left hook is a worthwhile punch. In a recent issue of RING Hopkins agreed with this. From a distance, throw jabs and straight right hands. Now, if you can find a way to dramatically close the distance, without the other guy realizing it, hook him.
Have you seen Hopkins/Trinidad? Watch what a smart fighter (by todays standards) does to a guy looking to lead with the hook. The hook is a short and tight punch, keep the elbow close in and turn those hips.
With any luck this will open up some discussion about Joe Frazier, who didn't do many of those things and is considered a great "left hooker". I'm not so impressed and I'd love to get into this.
I understand and perhaps I expressed myself poorly.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
The hook is a close range punch, but I do like to go through the motions, coming from outside with the jab, shifting the weight with the straight right and thus getting close for a full bodied left hook.
Again I'm afraid I'm expressing myself poorly, but essentially I agree, the hook is a close punch.
I was always surprised Eddie Futch was given such credit for training Frazier. I feel he is a great fighter, but his punchingability is from nature, there was little attention to actual technique
Youi're right- jab, right, that gets you in close for the hook. My thing with Frazier, the way he threw his hook- off the front foot- it killed his right hand. He became a one handed fighter, and, really, his hook wasn't all that because he didn't get his weight turned.
wow great posts and great discussion, i want to say i feel no one was critical, but they were all very good critiques of this vid, i liked a point or two, i tend to fight off my front foot which does hurt my right a lot,i think the discussion here is leading to some good technique. thanx everyone for your opinions
Hmm about Frazier's left hook... I must disagree. He puts in every punch alot of "Body". See him pursuing someone. He bobs down(no no in the modern boxing for reasons that are above my comprehension) and when he goes up he initialise his hook of a perfect position. Second comming from so low gives him alot ot initial velocity thats why his hook are heavy even on long range. Then when he is squared to his oponent it is just beautiful. Not throwing the right hand in this situation is the best solution. What is the best counter for the left hook? Keeping this hand high(or in his case cocked to give an incline target) and play it safe!!! He don't need to be gridy ;D
I was watching fighters from the 20's through to the 40's. The placed a lot of weight on the rear foot, for defensive purposes, but it allowed them to transfer weight brilliantly to the front foot when throwing a right.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
Nikola-
With Frazier he did have a lot of body in his hooks, but I think that was natural. His body shape suited the left hook, really well.! But it was all off the front hip and it was never transfered back
Hard to move with your weight too far forward. Do you remember Ike Quartey? If you came topwards him, like Vince Philips did, he threw really nice combinations...But his thing was his left jab- lots of power on it because he got his weight way up on his left foot. Kind of a problem because, from there, he couldn't throw a right hand. Also his opponents could move away from him because, to follow, he had to rock his weight back.
Which I guess has nothing at all to do with throwing a left hook...
I remember Quartey's jab.
I think it was everything to do with the hook;weight distribution that is.