Who would have beaten a prime Whitaker?

I've watched almost all of his fights except his last 2 where he soundly lost. But in his prime the man's defense and boxing skills was something to behold. Sweetpea never lost in his prime, I don't count the robbery in the Ramirez fight as a loss especially since most have him winning anywhere from 8-10 rounds. And I'm talking about his prime from 1984-1994, from LW to WW.

IMO in boxing history it would be an extremely hard task to have beaten that prime version. But for fun who could have beaten him or made it extremely competitive? Duran? Leonard? Hearns? Mayweather? Trinidad? Pacquiao? Chavez at 135 or 140?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjTHLPmfBCQ

Aaron Pryor

The same who beat him in real life, the judges

At lightweight only Duran stood a chance. At the higher weights probably more of the greats like SRL, SRR, Hearns but he was really unbeaten for many years, probably until ODH.

I think mayweather beats at any weight they occupy, he's harder to hit, faster, bigger, and he works harder. He's simply better than Whitaker.

Duran also likely beats him, Whitaker couldn't move like Leonard did, and Duran would just go to the body and make an ugly inside fight, but he's bigger and better than jcc.

Leonard and hearns I think they beat him because both are excellent fighters with a huge size advantage while both are also faster than him.

Aaron Pryor and pacquiao both best whitaker because they have to great a combination of speed, output and pressure.

I've watched a lot of Whitaker, and he's one of my favorites, but he simply relied on his reflexes far too much, the actual technique needed against a lot of these guys' speed simply isn't there, and he didn't control the ring the same way a lot these guys did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think mayweather beats at any weight they occupy, he's harder to hit, faster, bigger, and he works harder. He's simply better than Whitaker.

Duran also likely beats him, Whitaker couldn't move like Leonard did, and Duran would just go to the body and make an ugly inside fight, but he's bigger and better than jcc.

Leonard and hearns I think they beat him because both are excellent fighters with a huge size advantage while both are also faster than him.

Aaron Pryor and pacquiao both best whitaker because they have to great a combination of speed, output and pressure.

I've watched a lot of Whitaker, and he's one of my favorites, but he simply relied on his reflexes far too much, the actual technique needed against a lot of these guys' speed simply isn't there, and he didn't control the ring the same way a lot these guys did.

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surprise surprise Taeth once again making it seem as if no one in the history of the sport could beat Mayweather...

Very good body puncher and awkward and hard to hit, think he beats Mayweather at lightweight.

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Originally Posted by Master

Very good body puncher and awkward and hard to hit, think he beats Mayweather at lightweight.

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I feel the same way, the only one that has a chance like you've said is Duran at LW.

Don't forget Willie Pep. Battle of the master boxers ..... but with Sweet Pea's superior conditioning going up against Pep's toughness too.

I had a thread a while back in which I pitted Duran vs Whitaker @ lightweight and got a lot of good responses. I think Whitaker was best @ 135 and pretty close to unbeatable at that weight. I agree with the previous posts that said Duran would have a good chance but outside of him I don't think there was anyone who could whip SweetPea at lightweight. That being said I believe he could be defeated at 140 and 147 by some of the greats. Whitaker's reflexes and defense just wouldn't allow for him to be soundly beaten at those weights but it could be done because Whitaker was not a huge guy......even at lightweight. I would give Mayweather, Pacquiao, SRL, Hearns(how will Whitaker combat the reach) a chance at jr welter and welter but his style just makes it difficult to say that anyone would DEFINITELY beat him in his prime. Just too cagey and awkward.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think mayweather beats at any weight they occupy, he's harder to hit, faster, bigger, and he works harder. He's simply better than Whitaker.

Duran also likely beats him, Whitaker couldn't move like Leonard did, and Duran would just go to the body and make an ugly inside fight, but he's bigger and better than jcc.

Leonard and hearns I think they beat him because both are excellent fighters with a huge size advantage while both are also faster than him.

Aaron Pryor and pacquiao both best whitaker because they have to great a combination of speed, output and pressure.

I've watched a lot of Whitaker, and he's one of my favorites, but he simply relied on his reflexes far too much, the actual technique needed against a lot of these guys' speed simply isn't there, and he didn't control the ring the same way a lot these guys did.

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surprise surprise Taeth once again making it seem as if no one in the history of the sport could beat Mayweather...

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I've never seen Taeth do this, but in this case I have to agree with him. Whitaker had superb defensive skills, but Mayweather simply works harder and possesses better offensive skills than Pernell and would have taken a judges decision had they have fought.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think mayweather beats at any weight they occupy, he's harder to hit, faster, bigger, and he works harder. He's simply better than Whitaker.

Duran also likely beats him, Whitaker couldn't move like Leonard did, and Duran would just go to the body and make an ugly inside fight, but he's bigger and better than jcc.

Leonard and hearns I think they beat him because both are excellent fighters with a huge size advantage while both are also faster than him.

Aaron Pryor and pacquiao both best whitaker because they have to great a combination of speed, output and pressure.

I've watched a lot of Whitaker, and he's one of my favorites, but he simply relied on his reflexes far too much, the actual technique needed against a lot of these guys' speed simply isn't there, and he didn't control the ring the same way a lot these guys did.

---

surprise surprise Taeth once again making it seem as if no one in the history of the sport could beat Mayweather...

---

I think he compete with anyone around his weightclass in the history of the sport, but I think he can be beaten. I just don't think Whitaker would be the guy to do it. He's outgunned in every facet, just go look at the stats he was hit far more than Floyd. I think guys like hearns and Leonard and Robinson could definitely beat Floyd, but I think he could beat them as well. Is there any harm in that?

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think mayweather beats at any weight they occupy, he's harder to hit, faster, bigger, and he works harder. He's simply better than Whitaker.

Duran also likely beats him, Whitaker couldn't move like Leonard did, and Duran would just go to the body and make an ugly inside fight, but he's bigger and better than jcc.

Leonard and hearns I think they beat him because both are excellent fighters with a huge size advantage while both are also faster than him.

Aaron Pryor and pacquiao both best whitaker because they have to great a combination of speed, output and pressure.

I've watched a lot of Whitaker, and he's one of my favorites, but he simply relied on his reflexes far too much, the actual technique needed against a lot of these guys' speed simply isn't there, and he didn't control the ring the same way a lot these guys did.

---

surprise surprise Taeth once again making it seem as if no one in the history of the sport could beat Mayweather...

---

I've never seen Taeth do this, but in this case I have to agree with him. Whitaker had superb defensive skills, but Mayweather simply works harder and possesses better offensive skills than Pernell and would have taken a judges decision had they have fought.

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just read most of his posts where he mentions Mayweather in nearly everyone of them, he builds him to be the #1 ATG fighter in the history of the sport

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think mayweather beats at any weight they occupy, he's harder to hit, faster, bigger, and he works harder. He's simply better than Whitaker.

Duran also likely beats him, Whitaker couldn't move like Leonard did, and Duran would just go to the body and make an ugly inside fight, but he's bigger and better than jcc.

Leonard and hearns I think they beat him because both are excellent fighters with a huge size advantage while both are also faster than him.

Aaron Pryor and pacquiao both best whitaker because they have to great a combination of speed, output and pressure.

I've watched a lot of Whitaker, and he's one of my favorites, but he simply relied on his reflexes far too much, the actual technique needed against a lot of these guys' speed simply isn't there, and he didn't control the ring the same way a lot these guys did.

---

surprise surprise Taeth once again making it seem as if no one in the history of the sport could beat Mayweather...

---

I've never seen Taeth do this, but in this case I have to agree with him. Whitaker had superb defensive skills, but Mayweather simply works harder and possesses better offensive skills than Pernell and would have taken a judges decision had they have fought.

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just read most of his posts where he mentions Mayweather in nearly everyone of them, he builds him to be the #1 ATG fighter in the history of the sport

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Fair enough. I've seen him post bout plenty of other things though, he's hardly a Xadu is he? I don't think any fighter in the history of the sport would have beaten a prime Roy Jones Jr. It's all opinion.

Lightweights
Joe Gans
Roberto Duran
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Light Welterweights
Aaron Pryor
Kostya Tszyu
Floyd Mayweather
Welterweight
Henry Armstrong
Actually never mind 147- quit a few would here

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Originally Posted by Trueno

Lightweights
Joe Gans
Roberto Duran
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Light Welterweights
Aaron Pryor
Kostya Tszyu
Floyd Mayweather
Welterweight
Henry Armstrong
Actually never mind 147- quit a few would here

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Pep, Leonard and Tszyu would have no chance

Jose Luis Ramirez battered him in his prime. ;D I cant believe that one American judges scorecard, what fight was he watching?

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

[

Pep, Leonard and Tszyu would have no chance

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Each guy I posted I gave a shot at beating Sweetpea, pretty sure he may have beaten quite a few of em.
Pep and Leonard may not have been big enough.

But you've gotta give Tszyu a chance don't you?
Pernell had a good beard, but Tszyu could take guys with one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trueno

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

[

Pep, Leonard and Tszyu would have no chance

---

Each guy I posted I gave a shot at beating Sweetpea, pretty sure he may have beaten quite a few of em.
Pep and Leonard may not have been big enough.

But you've gotta give Tszyu a chance don't you?
Pernell had a good beard, but Tszyu could take guys with one.

---

Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

[

Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.

---

I'll definitely go along with the first two and I can see where you're coming from with Tszyu.
But he was a great slick am- he could have (and should've) called on those skills more in the pros.

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.

Only the best of the best.

Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.

Only the best of the best.

Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)

---

With Dave Parris as ref, or Joe Cortez?

In baseball they say great pitching beats great hitting. Likewise the great defensive backpeddler with speed generally has the advantage over the big punching forward-coming fighter.

So, I think the most likely candidate to beat Sweet Pea would be his fellow defensive artist, PBF. Meldrick Taylor in has prime would've been an interesting test. His speed might have caused trouble for Sweet Pea.

If sugar ray could outbox duran, I think Sweat Pea could too. Chavez is the test case there and even though Duran had superior movement and defense to Chavez, I doubt he could get to Sweat Pea.

SRL however was also a great boxer and had more power. He was a natural WW and would've had the height and reach advantage, so ultimately you have to go with him. Ditto for Hearns but with these two the real differnce is size. Mayweather and Meldrick were more in Seat Pea's natural range.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.

Only the best of the best.

Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)

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:vd: Only thing Hatton beats Whitaker in is a gravy drink off. Whitaker whips his ass in a boxing fight and a snorting contest

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.

Only the best of the best.

Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)

---

:vd: Only thing Hatton beats Whitaker in is a gravy drink off. Whitaker whips his ass in a boxing fight and a snorting contest

---

Notice the wink after I said it ?

I was joking. Obviously.

Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.

Only the best of the best.

Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)

---

:vd: Only thing Hatton beats Whitaker in is a gravy drink off. Whitaker whips his ass in a boxing fight and a snorting contest

---

Notice the wink after I said it ?

I was joking. Obviously.

---

This icon ":-X" would be more appropriate for it imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.

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Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.

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Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.

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Do yourself a favor watch the fight i mentioned above, and im almost certain your change your mind.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Trueno

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

[

Pep, Leonard and Tszyu would have no chance

---

Each guy I posted I gave a shot at beating Sweetpea, pretty sure he may have beaten quite a few of em.
Pep and Leonard may not have been big enough.

But you've gotta give Tszyu a chance don't you?
Pernell had a good beard, but Tszyu could take guys with one.

---

Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.

---

Leonard wouldn't have stood chance against Whitaker? WTF he would have stood a chance against anyone. Also Tszyu would match up quite well with Whitaker, he was calculated accurate, with huge power. He would probably lose, but he would give Whitaker a ton of problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bzkfn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I think mayweather beats at any weight they occupy, he's harder to hit, faster, bigger, and he works harder. He's simply better than Whitaker.

Duran also likely beats him, Whitaker couldn't move like Leonard did, and Duran would just go to the body and make an ugly inside fight, but he's bigger and better than jcc.

Leonard and hearns I think they beat him because both are excellent fighters with a huge size advantage while both are also faster than him.

Aaron Pryor and pacquiao both best whitaker because they have to great a combination of speed, output and pressure.

I've watched a lot of Whitaker, and he's one of my favorites, but he simply relied on his reflexes far too much, the actual technique needed against a lot of these guys' speed simply isn't there, and he didn't control the ring the same way a lot these guys did.

---

surprise surprise Taeth once again making it seem as if no one in the history of the sport could beat Mayweather...

---

I've never seen Taeth do this, but in this case I have to agree with him. Whitaker had superb defensive skills, but Mayweather simply works harder and possesses better offensive skills than Pernell and would have taken a judges decision had they have fought.

---

just read most of his posts where he mentions Mayweather in nearly everyone of them, he builds him to be the #1 ATG fighter in the history of the sport

---

I don't think he's the greatest, but I think he's up there, as he should be. Just like RJJ should as well. It's ignorant people who think guys who they have barely seen in their lives are way better that should have their heads' checked. Most people have a p4p list who consist of guys who largely were never filmed in full bouts and nearly never near their prime yet they idolize them to no limit. Like Ray Robinson, there isn't enough full fights when he was at his best against his best opponents to really establish how good he was. Let alone Wille Pep, Benny Leonard, Sam Langford, Henry Armstrong, etc, etc. People hypothisize here and there, but they really don't know how these guys actually looked in the ring at their best. And the guys like Leonard, Hagler, Ali, and Duran are so insurmountable in the minds of some that a guy could far vastly outachieve what any of them did like Pacquiao has done, and still all these new guys get is hate from people like ElTerribleMorales

Just for example, just ask who is better Hopkins or Hagler, or who has the better legacy. JCC or guys like Barrera, Morales and/or JMM. I think in a few years time people will realize who has actually done more than who.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.

Only the best of the best.

Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)

---

:vd: Only thing Hatton beats Whitaker in is a gravy drink off. Whitaker whips his ass in a boxing fight and a snorting contest

---

Notice the wink after I said it ?

I was joking. Obviously.

---

I know. Just wanted to get the gravy drink off comment in

Quote:

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.

---

Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.

---

Actually Ice is right. It would be damn hard to do it. But if anybody blunts Pryor's attack it's Whitaker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.

---

Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.

---

Come forward overtly aggressive fighters are tailor made for Whitaker's style. Yeah styles make fights. In the case of Pryor's it's the wrong kind for him against Pernell. Just like come forward fighters are tailor made for Pacquiao the same applies here but Whitaker is instead an defensive whiz.

He takes at least 8 rounds or more in a UD against Pryor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Trueno

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

[

Pep, Leonard and Tszyu would have no chance

---

Each guy I posted I gave a shot at beating Sweetpea, pretty sure he may have beaten quite a few of em.
Pep and Leonard may not have been big enough.

But you've gotta give Tszyu a chance don't you?
Pernell had a good beard, but Tszyu could take guys with one.

---

Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.

---

Leonard wouldn't have stood chance against Whitaker? WTF he would have stood a chance against anyone. Also Tszyu would match up quite well with Whitaker, he was calculated accurate, with huge power. He would probably lose, but he would give Whitaker a ton of problems.

---

:vd: Benny Leonard. Not Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Quote:

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Aaron Pryor wouldn't beat Pernell Whitaker, he went life and death with Gary Hinton. Who was a slick Southpaw, but not in Pernell Whitaker's league. That fight right there shows you Aaron Pryor would of been totally outboxed by Pernell Whitaker.

---

Style makes fights. Im sure Pea could make Aaron look bad in spots but eventually Pryor`s volume, workrate, and tenacity would be too much.

---

Come forward overtly aggressive fighters are tailor made for Whitaker's style. Yeah styles make fights. In the case of Pryor's it's the wrong kind for him against Pernell. Just like come forward fighters are tailor made for Pacquiao the same applies here but Whitaker is instead an defensive whiz.

He takes at least 8 rounds or more in a UD against Pryor.

---

Duran was a come-forward fighter. Are you saying Whitaker would've beaten him too @ 135?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trueno

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

[

Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.

---

I'll definitely go along with the first two and I can see where you're coming from with Tszyu.
But he was a great slick am- he could have (and should've) called on those skills more in the pros.

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WTF ? the guy got stopped by vince phillips when he was in his prime !
no way in the world he beats SWEETPEA and i mean no way.

I think ICB could give him a good fight.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Trueno

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

[

Leonard not big enough. Pep no where near the offense to pull it off. And Tszyu way to one-dimensional for Whitaker.

---

I'll definitely go along with the first two and I can see where you're coming from with Tszyu.
But he was a great slick am- he could have (and should've) called on those skills more in the pros.

---

WTF ? the guy got stopped by vince phillips when he was in his prime !
no way in the world he beats SWEETPEA and i mean no way.

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Styles make fights I think.
Philips was far from a great fighter, but he was incredibly physical and in great condition. Although not in the same class I feel that Phillips pressure is something that Pernell couldn't have [pulled off and I see a distinct possibility that Pernell is caught in between a slip/roll/reflex defence. Remember Kostya had frightening power.

I remember when Gatti was fighting Floyd. Whitaker was cheering hard for Gatti to a point that I might think, Whitaker don't like Floyd. Floyd's best performance ever!!!

One think about Floyd we all have to agree on, Floyd is relax and compose in the ring. The little dancing that Whitaker use to do that made his opponent try to load up on, Floyd will never do. "Take this laser jab all night!"

Floyd by MD

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.

Only the best of the best.

Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)

---

:vd: Only thing Hatton beats Whitaker in is a gravy drink off. Whitaker whips his ass in a boxing fight and a snorting contest

---

Notice the wink after I said it ?

I was joking. Obviously.

---

This icon ":-X" would be more appropriate for it imo.

---

Really? See I always think it's appropriate to pull a face like ^-^ when being a smart-arse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hulk

Sugar Ray Leonard, Sugar Shane Mosley at lightweight or welterweight, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, maybe Aaaron Pryor and Alexis Arguello.

Only the best of the best.

Oh and Ricky Hatton of course ;)

---

:vd: Only thing Hatton beats Whitaker in is a gravy drink off. Whitaker whips his ass in a boxing fight and a snorting contest

---

Notice the wink after I said it ?

I was joking. Obviously.

---

I know. Just wanted to get the gravy drink off comment in ^-^

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See!