Mike Jones...2nd times the charm!

Mike Jones......:bowdown:

Man! When your wrong your wrong and I couldn't have been more off on Jones going into rematch with Soto Karass :-X. He adjusted, kept pace and really utilized the entirety of the ring last night. He showed the backfoot is live and capable off nice range and put his foot on the gas and off when he choose to. He didn't go wild eyed gunslinger when he landed some fluid combos and though he was being caught in spots he kept composure well. I think at one point late he had possible p standing tko ref stoppage there for the taking if he kicked in the door on a woozy and blood soaked Soto Karass but I attribute that as much to Soto Karass brass balls, thick chin and no retreat-no surrender fortitude. He just couldn't cut him off and chop him down but when some may have folded while their face was falling apart and the tired legs objected to the willing heart, he did not. Heart of a champion. More so much respect to Jones as he owned it and displayed all his wares vs a solid professional though not elite Soto Karass. Good to see the direct rematch these days!! Perspective is key but if he keeps his head, Jones is a player to be watched.

Considering how far his stock fell in the first fight with Karass he certainly managed to do some good damage limitation at least yesterday.

I'm still not sold on him against a world rated opponent but he definitely showed he can learn and adapt and boxed a fine showing yesterday.

I'm not convinced that Karass, for all his heart however is anything more than a gatekeeper, and beating him convincingly in a rematch isn't a whole lot more than when Chavez Jr had to refight Matt Vanda.

I hope him and brook get in the ring soon. Would be an interesting fight

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Originally Posted by paddy448

I hope him and brook get in the ring soon. Would be an interesting fight

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Yeah definitely. I think Brook can be special, but you sense he's going to have to come unstuck first. He relies on his athleticisim too much and could get taught a boxing lesson on the funamentals against a decent, technically sound opponent.

I think Brook could be a great fighter, but I can also see him gettting completely frustrated and losing a lopsided decision to a decent, fundamentally sound opponent when his attacks just don't work for him.

He's kind of where Carl Froch was a few years ago. Clearly talented, but unorthadox and therefore easy to criticise. It might be his undoing, it might be his strength.

Time will tell.

I think he definitely learned from the first match....but i am not sold on him. I think he is very limited and I dont see anything that stands out about him. Power, speed, stamina, punch resistance, etc, I dont see anything special.

berto would destroy him

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

berto would destroy him

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Don't know about destroy but I think Berto beats him for sure.

Mike Jones is the welterweight Allen Green imo.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

berto would destroy him

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Don't know about destroy but I think Berto beats him for sure.

Mike Jones is the welterweight Allen Green imo.

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Frame wise I can see it but thats as far as I'd go. One thing Green didn't do is go right back at the man who had given him hell (Miranda) and for all intents and puposes dominate him to close a chapter. He feasted on peanuts until he stepped up again vs Ward and pulled out of a couple of main events. I think that loss to Miranda had Green seeing ghosts & he never conquered the doubt...or stopped looking at his feet :-X Maybe Jones broke even lastnight but he matured and adjusted beyond the record stats vs his only blemish.

Jones vs Berto. Nice! That would be a solid scrap. But while Berto has been sitting on the cusp for quite some time I believe Jones showed patterns that could give him pause. Collazo and Forbes type shifts and distance boxing that I dont think Berto should be given a full pass on? Jones is a step behind and Berto is more physical but when have you seen a Berto make that type of back to back 'big fight' adaptation? I know this is not an elite in Soto Karass but movement and uppercuts off jab kill Berto. Jones needs a couple more large goes and by that time Berto and Ortiz will have sorted one another out.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

berto would destroy him

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Don't know about destroy but I think Berto beats him for sure.

Mike Jones is the welterweight Allen Green imo.

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Frame wise I can see it but thats as far as I'd go. One thing Green didn't do is go right back at the man who had given him hell (Miranda) and for all intents and puposes dominate him to close a chapter. He feasted on peanuts until he stepped up again vs Ward and pulled out of a couple of main events. I think that loss to Miranda had Green seeing ghosts & he never conquered the doubt...or stopped looking at his feet :-X Maybe Jones broke even lastnight but he matured and adjusted beyond the record stats vs his only blemish.

Jones vs Berto. Nice! That would be a solid scrap. But while Berto has been sitting on the cusp for quite some time I believe Jones showed patterns that could give him pause. Collazo and Forbes type shifts and distance boxing that I dont think Berto should be given a full pass on? Jones is a step behind and Berto is more physical but when have you seen a Berto make that type of back to back 'big fight' adaptation? I know this is not an elite in Soto Karass but movement and uppercuts off jab kill Berto. Jones needs a couple more large goes and by that time Berto and Ortiz will have sorted one another out.

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To be fair to Green that's because he lost that fight, and compounded to the fact that Miranda was a HBO favourite had zero leverage to force a rematch. That's to say nothing of the fact that he was also out for a year following it due to emergency colon surgery.

I'm sure Green would have loved a rematch.

Also Miranda, for all his limitations I feel is a step up from Soto Karass. At least Miranda failed when he stepped up to world level. Karass failed against the likes of Alfonso Gomez.

Jones definitely did the job right this time around, but getting it wrong in the first place indicates he will probably never reach the top. I think Allan Green is a pretty accurate analagy in terms of how far I think he will go in the sport. He'll get to fight the world champs, he just won't come close to beating any of them.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

berto would destroy him

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Don't know about destroy but I think Berto beats him for sure.

Mike Jones is the welterweight Allen Green imo.

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Frame wise I can see it but thats as far as I'd go. One thing Green didn't do is go right back at the man who had given him hell (Miranda) and for all intents and puposes dominate him to close a chapter. He feasted on peanuts until he stepped up again vs Ward and pulled out of a couple of main events. I think that loss to Miranda had Green seeing ghosts & he never conquered the doubt...or stopped looking at his feet :-X Maybe Jones broke even lastnight but he matured and adjusted beyond the record stats vs his only blemish.

Jones vs Berto. Nice! That would be a solid scrap. But while Berto has been sitting on the cusp for quite some time I believe Jones showed patterns that could give him pause. Collazo and Forbes type shifts and distance boxing that I dont think Berto should be given a full pass on? Jones is a step behind and Berto is more physical but when have you seen a Berto make that type of back to back 'big fight' adaptation? I know this is not an elite in Soto Karass but movement and uppercuts off jab kill Berto. Jones needs a couple more large goes and by that time Berto and Ortiz will have sorted one another out.

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To be fair to Green that's because he lost that fight, and compounded to the fact that Miranda was a HBO favourite had zero leverage to force a rematch. That's to say nothing of the fact that he was also out for a year following it due to emergency colon surgery.

I'm sure Green would have loved a rematch.

Also Miranda, for all his limitations I feel is a step up from Soto Karass. At least Miranda failed when he stepped up to world level. Karass failed against the likes of Alfonso Gomez.

Jones definitely did the job right this time around, but getting it wrong in the first place indicates he will probably never reach the top. I think Allan Green is a pretty accurate analagy in terms of how far I think he will go in the sport. He'll get to fight the world champs, he just won't come close to beating any of them.

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Oh Miranda is TWO steps above Karass in terms of class. But no one is above Karass in heart. He is a warrior and I was rootin for him the other night.

He brought it and I had Jones winning 115-113, still by no means a dominant win.

Berto, Cotto, or Mayorga would whip Jones at this point.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

berto would destroy him

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Don't know about destroy but I think Berto beats him for sure.

Mike Jones is the welterweight Allen Green imo.

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Frame wise I can see it but thats as far as I'd go. One thing Green didn't do is go right back at the man who had given him hell (Miranda) and for all intents and puposes dominate him to close a chapter. He feasted on peanuts until he stepped up again vs Ward and pulled out of a couple of main events. I think that loss to Miranda had Green seeing ghosts & he never conquered the doubt...or stopped looking at his feet :-X Maybe Jones broke even lastnight but he matured and adjusted beyond the record stats vs his only blemish.

Jones vs Berto. Nice! That would be a solid scrap. But while Berto has been sitting on the cusp for quite some time I believe Jones showed patterns that could give him pause. Collazo and Forbes type shifts and distance boxing that I dont think Berto should be given a full pass on? Jones is a step behind and Berto is more physical but when have you seen a Berto make that type of back to back 'big fight' adaptation? I know this is not an elite in Soto Karass but movement and uppercuts off jab kill Berto. Jones needs a couple more large goes and by that time Berto and Ortiz will have sorted one another out.

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To be fair to Green that's because he lost that fight, and compounded to the fact that Miranda was a HBO favourite had zero leverage to force a rematch. That's to say nothing of the fact that he was also out for a year following it due to emergency colon surgery.

I'm sure Green would have loved a rematch.

Also Miranda, for all his limitations I feel is a step up from Soto Karass. At least Miranda failed when he stepped up to world level. Karass failed against the likes of Alfonso Gomez.

Jones definitely did the job right this time around, but getting it wrong in the first place indicates he will probably never reach the top. I think Allan Green is a pretty accurate analagy in terms of how far I think he will go in the sport. He'll get to fight the world champs, he just won't come close to beating any of them.

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Thats more then accurate yeh. Network bought into Miranda hook line and sinker and he had bigger fish to fry. Green was follower with subtle push. Jones (camp) might have gone by without risky rematch, seeing as how they won but erased doubts.

Thinking it through and you mention limitations. I personally think Soto Karass a more well rounded fighter then Miranda. Does it translate into the names, not so much but numbers dont tell the whole story and the only thing failing vs Alfonso Gomez was Gomez;s desire to fight through a cut. Very early but Jones showed me alot on his backfoot and composed to a "Green" comparison.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

berto would destroy him

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Don't know about destroy but I think Berto beats him for sure.

Mike Jones is the welterweight Allen Green imo.

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Frame wise I can see it but thats as far as I'd go. One thing Green didn't do is go right back at the man who had given him hell (Miranda) and for all intents and puposes dominate him to close a chapter. He feasted on peanuts until he stepped up again vs Ward and pulled out of a couple of main events. I think that loss to Miranda had Green seeing ghosts & he never conquered the doubt...or stopped looking at his feet :-X Maybe Jones broke even lastnight but he matured and adjusted beyond the record stats vs his only blemish.

Jones vs Berto. Nice! That would be a solid scrap. But while Berto has been sitting on the cusp for quite some time I believe Jones showed patterns that could give him pause. Collazo and Forbes type shifts and distance boxing that I dont think Berto should be given a full pass on? Jones is a step behind and Berto is more physical but when have you seen a Berto make that type of back to back 'big fight' adaptation? I know this is not an elite in Soto Karass but movement and uppercuts off jab kill Berto. Jones needs a couple more large goes and by that time Berto and Ortiz will have sorted one another out.

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To be fair to Green that's because he lost that fight, and compounded to the fact that Miranda was a HBO favourite had zero leverage to force a rematch. That's to say nothing of the fact that he was also out for a year following it due to emergency colon surgery.

I'm sure Green would have loved a rematch.

Also Miranda, for all his limitations I feel is a step up from Soto Karass. At least Miranda failed when he stepped up to world level. Karass failed against the likes of Alfonso Gomez.

Jones definitely did the job right this time around, but getting it wrong in the first place indicates he will probably never reach the top. I think Allan Green is a pretty accurate analagy in terms of how far I think he will go in the sport. He'll get to fight the world champs, he just won't come close to beating any of them.

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Thats more then accurate yeh. Network bought into Miranda hook line and sinker and he had bigger fish to fry. Green was follower with subtle push. Jones (camp) might have gone by without risky rematch, seeing as how they won but erased doubts.

Thinking it through and you mention limitations. I personally think Soto Karass a more well rounded fighter then Miranda. Does it translate into the names, not so much but numbers dont tell the whole story and the only thing failing vs Alfonso Gomez was Gomez;s desire to fight through a cut. Very early but Jones showed me alot on his backfoot and composed to a "Green" comparison.

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Karass definitely has heart, but Miranda had two things in abundance that Karass doesn't, knockout power, and for a while at least, a monstrous aura. He was seen as a Tyson like animal for a while, especially after giving Abraham that nice lantern jaw look in their first fight.

Miranda right now is done. Decent boxers know that if they back him up he will fold, and I think mentally he no longer has the belief.

But the Miranda that fought Green was a far tougher ask than a Soto Karass, who really is on the same level as Jesse Feliciano, David Estrada, Cosme Riveria, Matt Vanda, Walid Smichet etc, imo at least.

Tons of heart, but that doesn't beat the top fighters. The fact it was almost enough to beat Mike Jones means I can't see him ever getting to the top.

I'm much more interested in Victor Ortiz. He is a fighter who has all the tools, but is his mindset strong enough? I'm intrigued by his fight with Berto. I think Ortiz has the skill to beat him, but I think Berto, like Timothy Bradley is prepared to dig deeper.

I got Berto winning a decision in a competitive fight in which Ortiz progressively wilts down the stretch. I dont think he will get stopped, because I think he will fight to survice, much like Taylor did in the Pavlik rematch.

Jones I'd most like to see in with Kell Brook. That would show us a lot about both fighters. Neither is ready for a world title yet imo.

Mike Jones was showing excellent timing with his uppercut.

I knew Mike would win this fight, just shot his load in the second round last time out. He is a class above and would love him to give Kell Brook and good challenge.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

berto would destroy him

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Don't know about destroy but I think Berto beats him for sure.

Mike Jones is the welterweight Allen Green imo.

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Frame wise I can see it but thats as far as I'd go. One thing Green didn't do is go right back at the man who had given him hell (Miranda) and for all intents and puposes dominate him to close a chapter. He feasted on peanuts until he stepped up again vs Ward and pulled out of a couple of main events. I think that loss to Miranda had Green seeing ghosts & he never conquered the doubt...or stopped looking at his feet :-X Maybe Jones broke even lastnight but he matured and adjusted beyond the record stats vs his only blemish.

Jones vs Berto. Nice! That would be a solid scrap. But while Berto has been sitting on the cusp for quite some time I believe Jones showed patterns that could give him pause. Collazo and Forbes type shifts and distance boxing that I dont think Berto should be given a full pass on? Jones is a step behind and Berto is more physical but when have you seen a Berto make that type of back to back 'big fight' adaptation? I know this is not an elite in Soto Karass but movement and uppercuts off jab kill Berto. Jones needs a couple more large goes and by that time Berto and Ortiz will have sorted one another out.

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To be fair to Green that's because he lost that fight, and compounded to the fact that Miranda was a HBO favourite had zero leverage to force a rematch. That's to say nothing of the fact that he was also out for a year following it due to emergency colon surgery.

I'm sure Green would have loved a rematch.

Also Miranda, for all his limitations I feel is a step up from Soto Karass. At least Miranda failed when he stepped up to world level. Karass failed against the likes of Alfonso Gomez.

Jones definitely did the job right this time around, but getting it wrong in the first place indicates he will probably never reach the top. I think Allan Green is a pretty accurate analagy in terms of how far I think he will go in the sport. He'll get to fight the world champs, he just won't come close to beating any of them.

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Thats more then accurate yeh. Network bought into Miranda hook line and sinker and he had bigger fish to fry. Green was follower with subtle push. Jones (camp) might have gone by without risky rematch, seeing as how they won but erased doubts.

Thinking it through and you mention limitations. I personally think Soto Karass a more well rounded fighter then Miranda. Does it translate into the names, not so much but numbers dont tell the whole story and the only thing failing vs Alfonso Gomez was Gomez;s desire to fight through a cut. Very early but Jones showed me alot on his backfoot and composed to a "Green" comparison.

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Karass definitely has heart, but Miranda had two things in abundance that Karass doesn't, knockout power, and for a while at least, a monstrous aura. He was seen as a Tyson like animal for a while, especially after giving Abraham that nice lantern jaw look in their first fight.

Miranda right now is done. Decent boxers know that if they back him up he will fold, and I think mentally he no longer has the belief.

But the Miranda that fought Green was a far tougher ask than a Soto Karass, who really is on the same level as Jesse Feliciano, David Estrada, Cosme Riveria, Matt Vanda, Walid Smichet etc, imo at least.

Tons of heart, but that doesn't beat the top fighters. The fact it was almost enough to beat Mike Jones means I can't see him ever getting to the top.

I'm much more interested in Victor Ortiz. He is a fighter who has all the tools, but is his mindset strong enough? I'm intrigued by his fight with Berto. I think Ortiz has the skill to beat him, but I think Berto, like Timothy Bradley is prepared to dig deeper.

I got Berto winning a decision in a competitive fight in which Ortiz progressively wilts down the stretch. I dont think he will get stopped, because I think he will fight to survice, much like Taylor did in the Pavlik rematch.

Jones I'd most like to see in with Kell Brook. That would show us a lot about both fighters. Neither is ready for a world title yet imo.

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Lets remember that Andre Berto struggled greatly against COSME RIVERA.

So maybe we are jumping the gun here on Mike Jones.

Berto has got better since Cosmo Riveria

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Originally Posted by Master

Berto has got better since Cosmo Riveria

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Exactly my point sir.

Jones could still improve. Berto would waste him right now though. No doubt.