Cotto vs Margarito II

With Cotto beating Ricardo Mayorga and Antonio turning up to both the fight and the post match conference, it looks every likely that the eagerly anticipated rematch could be set for the summer. How do people see this one going? Obviously there is a lot of suspicion that Margarito may have had loaded gloves in that fight and I am sure that this will be a big part of the fight hype leading upto it but how do people think the fight will go now with Margarito just using his fists?

Even as a Cotto fan, I still can't see past a Margarito victory. Margarito is like a bull and won't stop coming forward and will walk through most of Cotto's punches, especially at 154lbs. The difference in size will be ridiculous come fight night. Whilst I can't see Cotto getting destroyed as he did in their first fight, can definitely see a late stoppage in this one. And not for Miguel. :eek:

I fully understand and appreciate your concerns as I too am a Cotto fan and I simply don't like the matchup

....HOWEVER

Manny Steward said the reason Cotto lost was because Margarito kept Cotto moving back and therefore Miguel couldn't get leverage on his punches.


That may be the case, but I think the way Cotto has to beat Margarito is in the pocket....Cotto's punches are shorter, Toni gives up his height and his long arms aren't made for inside fighting (though he enjoys that)...Margarito's effectiveness is based on the other fighter backing up thereby giving him the space to make impactful punches. Cotto will need to slip and counter (which he did VERY well vs Toni before he ran out of gas) between Toni's guard, landing an impactful shot to end each combination and circling out from danger...when Margarito gives chase counter and circle OR counter and tie up...the UPPERCUT is the most important punch for Cotto in this fight and somehow he's going to have to find a way to the body to slow Margarito's pursuit. Something else that may give Margarito pause is if Cotto switches stances every now and then...it also may help Miguel find a route to the body. If he really needs a breather I would whole heartedly suggest a low blow as #1 He's done it before and #2 Nobody deserves it more than Margarito.

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Originally Posted by koppas

With Cotto beating Ricardo Mayorga and Antonio turning up to both the fight and the post match conference, it looks every likely that the eagerly anticipated rematch could be set for the summer. How do people see this one going? Obviously there is a lot of suspicion that Margarito may have had loaded gloves in that fight and I am sure that this will be a big part of the fight hype leading upto it but how do people think the fight will go now with Margarito just using his fists?

Even as a Cotto fan, I still can't see past a Margarito victory. Margarito is like a bull and won't stop coming forward and will walk through most of Cotto's punches, especially at 154lbs. The difference in size will be ridiculous come fight night. Whilst I can't see Cotto getting destroyed as he did in their first fight, can definitely see a late stoppage in this one. And not for Miguel. :eek:

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Antonio Margarito is unproven at 154, he lost twice to Daniel Santos at 154 and felt the weight of the punches aswell.

Im still unsure whether Antonio Margarito did cheat vs Miguel Cotto, but whether he did or not.

How do you know if Antonio Margarito has fully recovered, after the beating's he received off Manny Pacquiao, Shane Mosley ?

Yes he has a very good chin, but that chin will be cracked eventually.

The only problem i see is that Miguel Cotto, hasn't got the speed of Manny Pacquiao to win exchanges. Nor as he got the physical strength of a Shane Mosley to win the inside battle man handling Antonio Margarito in clinches.

The best thing Miguel Cotto can try and do, is go to the body more. He really didn't do much body work in there 1st meeting. And as Shane Mosley showed you can easily target Antonio Margarito's midsection.

Im going to sit on the fence im now really sure how it will go.

Max Boxing - Main Lead - Now on to Margarito…

Now he looks ahead to a July 16th grudge rematch with Margarito and Steward will be hammering home a familiar message.

"The first fight, I was doing the broadcast; I thought Margarito made Cotto fight too fast and run away too fast when he threw his punches," Steward explained. "So he never did get the full maximum power on his punches because Margarito would always finish the combination as he was running away. So he never really did follow through. Margarito will always be a tough fight, I think, style-wise for Miguel."

Cotto didn’t have much to say about the looming rematch, which shouldn’t come as a shock to anyone that has ever been around him. If you could understand body language, his greeting toward Margarito spoke volumes.

It’s perhaps as loud a statement as Cotto’s ever made.

i also hope Manny helps Miguel develop power with his right hand.

I think Cotto could learn a bit from Dimitry Pirog and PIVOT more. It should be easy for him as he can fight orthodox or southpaw and you can slip in and out of range on balance and be ready to fire off punches quicker...you can lull fighters to sleep like that (Pirog-Jacobs) or draw them in for a big counter punch they never see coming.

Margarito is a strong cat and he's durable, but Cotto (and Manny) has to keep in mind that he doesn't need to deliver KO power in every single punch to beat him, he just needs an even steady pace and the main thing is to keep Margarito from throwing over 90-100+ punches a round, you need to look at when he's done that, every time he's been held to numbers like that he's been stopped.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I think Cotto could learn a bit from Dimitry Pirog and PIVOT more. It should be easy for him as he can fight orthodox or southpaw and you can slip in and out of range on balance and be ready to fire off punches quicker...you can lull fighters to sleep like that (Pirog-Jacobs) or draw them in for a big counter punch they never see coming.

Margarito is a strong cat and he's durable, but Cotto (and Manny) has to keep in mind that he doesn't need to deliver KO power in every single punch to beat him, he just needs an even steady pace and the main thing is to keep Margarito from throwing over 90-100+ punches a round, you need to look at when he's done that, every time he's been held to numbers like that he's been stopped.

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El Kabong, so you would rather have Cotto box more here than be a pressure fighter?
This has been boggling my mind for quite some time now.

I would have Cotto fight (mentally) the manner in which Wlad would fight...box the hell out of him until he's ripe for the picking and then go for the kill. The problem with Cotto the last time was that Margarito is SO easy to hit Miguel thought "Well OK, I'll throw the kitchen sink at him and he'll wither like everyone else I've fought"...that's a very easy mistake to make when you fight someone that lacks defense but is durable...look at Morrison-Mercer, Wlad-Brewster I Lee-Vera, and so on.

Miguel was doing just fine vs Margaito to begin with, he won rounds easy, he didn't take much damage, he was really frustrating Toni for the first half of that fight...but he was putting too much on his punches which will tucker you out, he was circling away which was tiring him out, and Cotto's defense isn't made for BLOCKING shots it's made for parrying shots and countering which is hard to do when you're too tired to move and too tired to put anything on your punches.

I think if Cotto BOXED for 12 rounds he'd school Margarito...it's not Miguel's style, but it would be the smart thing to do. IF Cotto can KO Margarito he needs to put his emotions aside and allow the KO to come to him and not chase after it like he did the first time.

Why fight him again you already beat him before... :cool:
that's how I feel anyway.

But a rematch would be huge and I think Cotto beats him again.

Cotto was soundly beating him in the center of the ring.
The 2nd Cotto would go to the ropes is when Tony did his best work.

That's usually when Tony works his best when opponents are pinned.
Look at all his TKO's most come in this fashion def. Lewis & Cintron off the top of my head.
Tony ladnded his best shot on Pac when Pac was sitting on the ropes.

I agree Mick, I think Cotto-Angulo would be better or even Cotto-Alvarez....I think Cotto could take both of those, he's a far better boxer than Angulo and he's a huge step up in competition for Canelo.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

I fully understand and appreciate your concerns as I too am a Cotto fan and I simply don't like the matchup

....HOWEVER

Manny Steward said the reason Cotto lost was because Margarito kept Cotto moving back and therefore Miguel couldn't get leverage on his punches.


That may be the case, but I think the way Cotto has to beat Margarito is in the pocket....Cotto's punches are shorter, Toni gives up his height and his long arms aren't made for inside fighting (though he enjoys that)...Margarito's effectiveness is based on the other fighter backing up thereby giving him the space to make impactful punches. Cotto will need to slip and counter (which he did VERY well vs Toni before he ran out of gas) between Toni's guard, landing an impactful shot to end each combination and circling out from danger...when Margarito gives chase counter and circle OR counter and tie up...the UPPERCUT is the most important punch for Cotto in this fight and somehow he's going to have to find a way to the body to slow Margarito's pursuit. Something else that may give Margarito pause is if Cotto switches stances every now and then...it also may help Miguel find a route to the body. If he really needs a breather I would whole heartedly suggest a low blow as #1 He's done it before and #2 Nobody deserves it more than Margarito.

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hahahah.... i remember wondering why he didnt do this in the first fight...i mean if zab judah is worthy then surley margarito isnt above getting a shot in the nads to slow him down a little

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Why fight him again you already beat him before... :cool:
that's how I feel anyway.

But a rematch would be huge and I think Cotto beats him again.

Cotto was soundly beating him in the center of the ring.
The 2nd Cotto would go to the ropes is when Tony did his best work.

That's usually when Tony works his best when opponents are pinned.
Look at all his TKO's most come in this fashion def. Lewis & Cintron off the top of my head.
Tony ladnded his best shot on Pac when Pac was sitting on the ropes.

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You have just entered Cutmemicks fantasy land where getting your ass beat means you won. Its a magical place where all your favorite fighters never lose. Bernard Hopkins is there as host, he will show you around. Vic Darchinyan will be guest speaking on how getting knocked unconcious isnt really losing, and that you can actually still fight while unconcious.

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Originally Posted by No Contest

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Why fight him again you already beat him before... :cool:
that's how I feel anyway.

But a rematch would be huge and I think Cotto beats him again.

Cotto was soundly beating him in the center of the ring.
The 2nd Cotto would go to the ropes is when Tony did his best work.

That's usually when Tony works his best when opponents are pinned.
Look at all his TKO's most come in this fashion def. Lewis & Cintron off the top of my head.
Tony ladnded his best shot on Pac when Pac was sitting on the ropes.

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You have just entered Cutmemicks fantasy land where getting your ass beat means you won. Its a magical place where all your favorite fighters never lose. Bernard Hopkins is there as host, he will show you around. Vic Darchinyan will be guest speaking on how getting knocked unconcious isnt really losing, and that you can actually still fight while unconcious.

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hey maybe you should join in, i heard John Duddy is going to have his world titles on display ;)

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by No Contest

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Why fight him again you already beat him before... :cool:
that's how I feel anyway.

But a rematch would be huge and I think Cotto beats him again.

Cotto was soundly beating him in the center of the ring.
The 2nd Cotto would go to the ropes is when Tony did his best work.

That's usually when Tony works his best when opponents are pinned.
Look at all his TKO's most come in this fashion def. Lewis & Cintron off the top of my head.
Tony ladnded his best shot on Pac when Pac was sitting on the ropes.

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You have just entered Cutmemicks fantasy land where getting your ass beat means you won. Its a magical place where all your favorite fighters never lose. Bernard Hopkins is there as host, he will show you around. Vic Darchinyan will be guest speaking on how getting knocked unconcious isnt really losing, and that you can actually still fight while unconcious.

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hey maybe you should join in, i heard John Duddy is going to have his world titles on display ;)

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I'm too busy listening to Cotto talk about how he demolished Pac and made him quit.;) I'm more interested in active fighters. Mayorga will be having a retirement speech on how to beat fighters by letting them hit you uncontested in the face. Duddy will be in attendance I'll talk to him then.

my concern is that 154 suits magarito and is a weight class above what cotto is made for, he doesnt have the height to mix with magarito, cotto tends to fight small......however it remains to be seen how much is left in magarito and cotto...... miguel has lost speed and movement from his peak few years back and tonys been poped by mosley and beat down by pacman.......it would be another punishing fight for two men that have really had to many of those already...i'd favour magarito 51/49%, both guys should retire after this if it happens

Oh shit.... here we go again. I can understand (and utterly respect) Cotto for wanting to avenge his loss to MargaCHEATO. But damn! It's a risky proposition. These are the key factors, IMO:

1. Psychological factor - I put this one first because it's going to come up in the pre-fight analyses. Miguel has to overcome that psychological factor of facing someone who beat him up badly the first time around. Although, if anyone has a strong mind and can deal with that kind of thing, it's Cotto.

2. Cotto's game plan - IMO, his getting together with Emanuel was by FAR the best thing to have happened to his career. His uncle was only going to take him so far, and Joe Santiago (no disrespect intended) was a nobody in the corner. Cotto had a lousy game plan against MargaCHEATO the first time around, and he had a lousy game plan against Pacquiao.

3. Weight of the fight - Again, IMO, the heavier they fight, the more it favors MargaCHEATO. Hey, he's taller and naturally the bigger guy. Like someone said in another thread... Cotto is a stocky junior middleweight. MargaCHEATO is a full-blown junior middleweight.

4. Cotto's stamina - Against MargaCHEATO the first time around, Cotto lost his steam after the 6th or 7th round. Yet against Mayorga, he showed good stamina, culminating with a TKO win in the 12th. Emanuel has got to work to maintain Cotto's conditioning to avoid a repeat of the first MargaCHEATO fight.


I'm torn... I'd love nothing more than for Cotto to avenge his loss to MargaCHEATO... but I'd absolutely hate to see Cotto lose to the bum again. At least I know he'll be totally prepared, with Emanuel in his corner. Emanuel has already thrown a few tidbits of wisdom out there, like saying that Cotto would need to put some power behind his punches and not throw them while backing up. He did that in the first fight and it got him nowhere. I hope Emanuel AND Cotto study the Mosley- MargaCHEATO fight, which is the perfect blueprint on beating Margarito. Cotto may not be as physically strong as Mosley... but if fights in close and makes MargaCHEATO back up, and attacks the body with his lethal left hook.... he should be able to kick his ass.

Me? I'll be on sedatives the night of the fight.

;D

Cotto's going to get TKO'd again. He'll outbox Margarito for 90% of the fight, but as soon as he slows and starts getting hit it's going to be over - he simply doesn't have the chin or the stamina to beat Margarito. Also, I really think Margarito is in Cotto's head. I know he's a low-key guy, but he really doesn't seem to want the rematch and I'd wager that the only reason it's happening is because Bob Arum is pushing him into it.

Margarito TKO Cotto 10. That's my prediction.

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Originally Posted by No Contest

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Why fight him again you already beat him before... :cool:
that's how I feel anyway.

But a rematch would be huge and I think Cotto beats him again.

Cotto was soundly beating him in the center of the ring.
The 2nd Cotto would go to the ropes is when Tony did his best work.

That's usually when Tony works his best when opponents are pinned.
Look at all his TKO's most come in this fashion def. Lewis & Cintron off the top of my head.
Tony ladnded his best shot on Pac when Pac was sitting on the ropes.

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You have just entered Cutmemicks fantasy land where getting your ass beat means you won. Its a magical place where all your favorite fighters never lose. Bernard Hopkins is there as host, he will show you around. Vic Darchinyan will be guest speaking on how getting knocked unconcious isnt really losing, and that you can actually still fight while unconcious.

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It really is...
Here in this magical place Alexis beat Pryor, Cotto beat Tony, Huerta beat Raymkulov, Ortiz beat Diaz and JMM beat Pac twice.
It's the place to be. :cool:

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Originally Posted by CFH

Cotto's going to get TKO'd again. He'll outbox Margarito for 90% of the fight, but as soon as he slows and starts getting hit it's going to be over - he simply doesn't have the chin or the stamina to beat Margarito. Also, I really think Margarito is in Cotto's head. I know he's a low-key guy, but he really doesn't seem to want the rematch and I'd wager that the only reason it's happening is because Bob Arum is pushing him into it.

Margarito TKO Cotto 10. That's my prediction.

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If the fight get's made I would gladly be up for a friendly bet.
Loser takes it up Shit Pipe. :lickish:

Seriously though I'd be up for a bet... Let me know.

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Originally Posted by CFH

Cotto's going to get TKO'd again. He'll outbox Margarito for 90% of the fight, but as soon as he slows and starts getting hit it's going to be over - he simply doesn't have the chin or the stamina to beat Margarito. Also, I really think Margarito is in Cotto's head. I know he's a low-key guy, but he really doesn't seem to want the rematch and I'd wager that the only reason it's happening is because Bob Arum is pushing him into it.

Margarito TKO Cotto 10. That's my prediction.

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It's how I see it as well. 154 suites Tony far more than Cotto... As if Tony needed something else going for him. He has the mental edge(loaded wraps or not), naturally bigger, volume puncher, stamina and an engine block for a chin. Honestly, if it's not a late stoppage it'll be a decent beating for Tony. Cotto will win the first half of the fight with precision punching and Tony will wear him down and take the later rounds. If I had my way Margarito would have never fought again. ...But I don't.

the first fight was one of my favourite of recent times, definately one of if not my favourite that didnt involve a british fighter

i just hope its half as good as last time

i reckon margarito will take him again in similar style

I like Cotto here. Margarito without the gloves won't bust Cotto up the way he did last time. Cotto will make it to the final bell, winning more rounds, ultimately winning on the card.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

I like Cotto here. Margarito without the gloves won't bust Cotto up the way he did last time. Cotto will make it to the final bell, winning more rounds, ultimately winning on the card.

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Toni hasn't won a meaningful fight since getting busted for loaded wraps....coincidence??? I think not ;)

I think guys that use loaded wraps are psychologically weak fighters that are empowered by the idea of cheating so they take are able to take more punishment knowing they'll deal out more punishment....but without the wraps he's not going to have that same confidence, maybe he'll have more confidence knowing he's already beaten Cotto before, but Toni has taken some beating recently, I mean BIG beatings

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

I like Cotto here. Margarito without the gloves won't bust Cotto up the way he did last time. Cotto will make it to the final bell, winning more rounds, ultimately winning on the card.

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Toni hasn't won a meaningful fight since getting busted for loaded wraps....coincidence??? I think not ;)

I think guys that use loaded wraps are psychologically weak fighters that are empowered by the idea of cheating so they take are able to take more punishment knowing they'll deal out more punishment....but without the wraps he's not going to have that same confidence, maybe he'll have more confidence knowing he's already beaten Cotto before, but Toni has taken some beating recently, I mean BIG beatings

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Sure, you could be right but he's also gotten older and is fighting in another weight class. Those are a bunch of variables above and beyond whether or not he had loaded wraps before. (Which I think he did) We'll see.

I go with Margarito for exact same reasons as the first time around, to a tee.

I can't believe they are still trying to justify this fight as legit. But boxing mus have it's villains and superheroes.

Couple things I want people to remember. Margarito is such a bad style matchup for Cotto it isn't funny.

-Cotto is used to being the stronger guy in the ring.
-Cotto counters off of parries (as someone mentioned earlier). Margarito is a combination puncher. Margarito will land something at almost every exchange for this reason. Once Margarito could put a glove on him, granted it took 7 rounds... he is going to change the tune.
-Cotto never ties up. There is no way to slow Margs march other than to tie him up at times and punch him in the ribs. This was one of Mosleys best things he did. He threw 2, 1-2, or 1-2-3 and tied up.
-Margarito has nothing to lose/ Cotto's career is at stake. He will not take another stoppage well this late in his career.
-Cotto has shown me nothing but tentativeness in all his fights (except a few rounds with Pac) since losing to Marg. Marg has made him the scared fighter his is today. Where'd that left hook to the body go anyway?

I hope this fight does not happen. Cotto could match up really well with a lot of other (younger) guys at catchweight or lure them to SWW for some better matchups.

F___ Margarito. He doesn't deserve the payday or the chance for his "redemption." He won yet he is willing to prove without a doubt by taking a rematch.

Under Stewart. Cotto could outbox him in all rounds this time.

Margarito is like a tank.

Cotto doesnt have the stamina to pepper Marg with combination's for all 12. He should preserve his energy to try and outbox Marg for the whole fight. He must not get over excited and go for a KO. that would zap a big amount of energy from him.

land combos and then dance. Try to clinch if the uppercut find its way.

154 benefits Marg more.

1st of all, probly only in boxing is it bound to happen that a suspended fighter caught for cheating gets 2 title shots upon return to the ring?!?

I mean the dude got a massive payday and a shot at the world's best pound4pound fighter along with the title shot associated with that fite.

He got his ass and his face handed to him and was demolished!

Now he gets another title shot?!? How on Earth does a suspended fighter (for cheating) coming off a heavy loss get another opportunity at another title?!?:confused:

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Originally Posted by Themantonio

1st of all, probly only in boxing is it bound to happen that a suspended fighter caught for cheating gets 2 title shots upon return to the ring?!?

I mean the dude got a massive payday and a shot at the world's best pound4pound fighter along with the title shot associated with that fite.

He got his ass and his face handed to him and was demolished!

Now he gets another title shot?!? How on Earth does a suspended fighter (for cheating) coming off a heavy loss get another opportunity at another title?!?:confused:

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I suspect Margarito has photographs of Bob Arum galavanting around with Bilbo and a collection of ladyboys.

And now for my opinion on the fite... I think Cotto's greatest asset and probly only chance in this fite is the inclusion of Emmanuel Steward...

BUT like alot of us on this forum I c the the same result as the first fite... I know Cotto does not have the power to stop Marg. I also believe Cotto does not have the stamina to box and manuever away from Tony for 12 rounds either. He showed in the first fite and against Mayorga even, he tends to fade after the 6th/7th round. If he didn't have stamina for these fites, he ain't all of a sudden guna have it for this proposed rematch.

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Originally Posted by :::PSL:::

Under Stewart. Cotto could outbox him in all rounds this time.

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He seems to have improved on his defense after throwing shots he does get hit as much. I still think he will have to back-up a lot but he probably wont get hit as much doing so.

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Originally Posted by Themantonio

And now for my opinion on the fite... I think Cotto's greatest asset and probly only chance in this fite is the inclusion of Emmanuel Steward...

BUT like alot of us on this forum I c the the same result as the first fite... I know Cotto does not have the power to stop Marg. I also believe Cotto does not have the stamina to box and manuever away from Tony for 12 rounds either. He showed in the first fite and against Mayorga even, he tends to fade after the 6th/7th round. If he didn't have stamina for these fites, he ain't all of a sudden guna have it for this proposed rematch.

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Fight. They arent having fits.;)

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Originally Posted by Themantonio

Now he gets another title shot?!? How on Earth does a suspended fighter (for cheating) coming off a heavy loss get another opportunity at another title?!?:confused:

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everybody wants to see the fight

plenty of boxers have cheated and have still made lots of money afterwards

mosely, roy jones, holyfield, toney, etc

Just my opinion,

Margarito don't deserve to get these fights he's getting. Nonetheless, he is. Therefore, Margarito got a lot of heart and a strong will. A good chin and constant pressure. Margarito trained hard for Pacman and although he was getting blasted out, he never stop coming and didn't give up. Saying all that, Margarito will be a tough fight for Cotto. Not sure if he can pull the win out but right now, it's a 50/50 fight for me.

Key points
1. How hard do Margarito really hit?
2. How good is Cotto's chin?
3. Is Margarito body really soft?

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Just my opinion,

Margarito don't deserve to get these fights he's getting. Nonetheless, he is. Therefore, Margarito got a lot of heart and a strong will. A good chin and constant pressure. Margarito trained hard for Pacman and although he was getting blasted out, he never stop coming and didn't give up. Saying all that, Margarito will be a tough fight for Cotto. Not sure if he can pull the win out but right now, it's a 50/50 fight for me.

Key points
1. How hard do Margarito really hit?
2. How good is Cotto's chin?
3. Is Margarito body really soft?

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they arent the key points

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Just my opinion,

Margarito don't deserve to get these fights he's getting. Nonetheless, he is. Therefore, Margarito got a lot of heart and a strong will. A good chin and constant pressure. Margarito trained hard for Pacman and although he was getting blasted out, he never stop coming and didn't give up. Saying all that, Margarito will be a tough fight for Cotto. Not sure if he can pull the win out but right now, it's a 50/50 fight for me.

Key points
1. How hard do Margarito really hit?
2. How good is Cotto's chin?
3. Is Margarito body really soft?

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p.s. does mosley deserve the pacman fight and the massive payday that goes with it?

i know it isnt exactly a nice thing to say about a sport i love so dearly, but..


i hope cotto SERIOUSLY hurts the guy if this fight ever happens, put him into retirement

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Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer

i know it isnt exactly a nice thing to say about a sport i love so dearly, but..


i hope cotto SERIOUSLY hurts the guy if this fight ever happens, put him into retirement

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Yup. dose of his own medicine.

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by HattonTheHammer

i know it isnt exactly a nice thing to say about a sport i love so dearly, but..


i hope cotto SERIOUSLY hurts the guy if this fight ever happens, put him into retirement

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Yup. dose of his own medicine.

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loving the av/siggy POB

top work ;D;D;D