Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
I know many people here doesnt want this kind of thread but this is a simple fact that is being ignored.
After Pac beat Dela Hoya in 2008 ( 1st fight at 147 ) here is the RING Welterweight Ranking
- Antonio Margarito
- Miguel Angel Cotto
- Shane Mosley
- Joshua Clottey
- Manny Pacquiao
- Carlos Quintana
- Zab Judah
- Luis Collazo
- Andre Berto
- Isaac Hlatshwayo
The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: Welterweight--2000s - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Now almost 3 yrs later. Pac's competition as of late are not really good? and all these guys are at least 10-15lbs heavier.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
You have to take a look of when the fights took place. The Cotto fight was a good one, and he should have followed it up with Mosley after the fallout with Floyd but instead went with Clottey whom no one really gave a shot of beating him. Margarito hasn't had a significant win since July of '08 when he fought Cotto and looked like crap in his 1 comeback fight before fighting Pac.
Again the timing itself has to be questioned. If he was fighting Shane Mosley last year around this time it would be called a good fight. But now after Floyd and Mora? Shane looks like a shot fighter.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
You have to take a look of when the fights took place. The Cotto fight was a good one, and he should have followed it up with Mosley after the fallout with Floyd but instead went with Clottey whom no one really gave a shot of beating him. Margarito hasn't had a significant win since July of '08 when he fought Cotto and looked like crap in his 1 comeback fight before fighting Pac.
Again the timing itself has to be questioned. If he was fighting Shane Mosley last year around this time it would be called a good fight. But now after Floyd and Mora? Shane looks like a shot fighter.
After Mosley comes Clottey in the ranking. yeah the timing can be questioned but as he enters the division the TOP 4 were the fighters he have fought.
Those TOP 4 Welters fought each other ( Cotto, Margarito, Mosley ) We can also add Clottey who fought Marg and Cotto. Do we ask those fighters to wait for Pacquiao so that we are sure that these fighters are not coming off losses?
Mosley won againts Mora a style he doesnt look good againts. he lost to Mayweather who is regarded as the best fighter around by many people. Those 2 fights tells us that Mosley is shot following the sensational KO victory over the other major player in these drama in Margarito?
Lets fair him with Berto.... I think your conscience will tell you how Mosley might perform against Berto.
----
Clottey lost to Cotto and Margarito
Cotto lost to Margarito
Mosley lost to Cotto
Margarito lost to Mosley
These are the 4 best fighters when Pac entered the WELTERWEIGHT DIVISION and PAC FOUGHT THEM ALL.( Will fight Mosley) them coming of bad performances are idiots excuses because they lost to each other. They didnt lose to any GateKeepers or other contenders like Judah, Cintron, Collazo or Quintana. THey lost to their fellow ranked welters.
And Pac is giving away at least 10-15lbs against them on every fight.
Mosley is done because he lost to FLoyd? I thought Floyd is the best fighter around? he's supposed to lose to Floyd
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
anyone can pick holes in anyones record
on this forum virtually all the top performers of this generation and dating back to ali and further have been rubbished
pac has an amazing record and deserves to be called the best (or in the top 2 at least) and will deserve to go down in history as one of the best ever
if pac had fought mosley after cotto then everyone would be saying mosley was shot coz of the mayorga fight
clotty was a tough man who had given all the welterweights problems and pac is tiny in comparison
since he started moving up through the weights he has fought the best around
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
You have to take a look of when the fights took place. The Cotto fight was a good one, and he should have followed it up with Mosley after the fallout with Floyd but instead went with Clottey whom no one really gave a shot of beating him. Margarito hasn't had a significant win since July of '08 when he fought Cotto and looked like crap in his 1 comeback fight before fighting Pac.
Again the timing itself has to be questioned. If he was fighting Shane Mosley last year around this time it would be called a good fight. But now after Floyd and Mora? Shane looks like a shot fighter.
After the collapse of the first Pacquiao-Mayweather negotiation, Manny could not fight Mosley since Shane was already scheduled to fight Berto. That fight was cancelled because of the earthquake in Haiti but by that time the contract had already been signed for the Pacquiao-Clottey fight. There was no other viable opponent available then. Even JMM and Bradley had fights scheduled.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
You have to take a look of when the fights took place. The Cotto fight was a good one, and he should have followed it up with Mosley after the fallout with Floyd but instead went with Clottey whom no one really gave a shot of beating him. Margarito hasn't had a significant win since July of '08 when he fought Cotto and looked like crap in his 1 comeback fight before fighting Pac.
Again the timing itself has to be questioned. If he was fighting Shane Mosley last year around this time it would be called a good fight. But now after Floyd and Mora? Shane looks like a shot fighter.
After Mosley comes Clottey in the ranking. yeah the timing can be questioned but as he enters the division the TOP 4 were the fighters he have fought.
Those TOP 4 Welters fought each other ( Cotto, Margarito, Mosley ) We can also add Clottey who fought Marg and Cotto. Do we ask those fighters to wait for Pacquiao so that we are sure that these fighters are not coming off losses?
Mosley won againts Mora a style he doesnt look good againts. he lost to Mayweather who is regarded as the best fighter around by many people. Those 2 fights tells us that Mosley is shot following the sensational KO victory over the other major player in these drama in Margarito?
Lets fair him with Berto.... I think your conscience will tell you how Mosley might perform against Berto.
----
Clottey lost to Cotto and Margarito
Cotto lost to Margarito
Mosley lost to Cotto
Margarito lost to Mosley
These are the 4 best fighters when Pac entered the WELTERWEIGHT DIVISION and
PAC FOUGHT THEM ALL.( Will fight Mosley) them coming of bad performances are idiots excuses because they lost to each other. They didnt lose to any GateKeepers or other contenders like Judah, Cintron, Collazo or Quintana. THey lost to their fellow ranked welters.
And Pac is giving away at least 10-15lbs against them on every fight.
Mosley is done because he lost to FLoyd? I thought Floyd is the best fighter around? he's supposed to lose to Floyd
Mosley is done because he looked like shit against a reality tv boxer in Mora. A feather fisted one at that. Mosley 3 or 4 years ago would have handle him with ease. Mosley is a severely declining fighter this is generally accepted by most boxing fans. What are you telling me that Mosley is still prime or just slightly past prime? If he is't shot, he's close to it.
So now Pac fights Mosley, when he didn't want none of it when Mosley just ko Margarito. You know the same Mosley that says he's willing to go down all the way to 140 when Roach proposed a catchweight of 142 or 143. After the Mayweather fight fell through last year, the Pac team should have made a fight with Mosley, but Floyd got there first. Now that Mosley looked shot against a reality tv feather fisted boxer, it's the right time to pick Mosley right?
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
I swear some of you guys should get a Bachelors degree in Pac and Floyd Boxing History. I'm working on my master in Floyds opposition. With a BA in Pac's anatomy.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.
True but Floyd doesn't beat up his opponent like the way pac beats them up.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.
True but Floyd doesn't beat up his opponent like the way pac beats them up.
nailed it;)
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.
I just hope one of these days HBO would at least show PBF's actual fight night weight. The recent one's at least.:)
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
The PAC vs Floyd debate as how I see it. It is like a English Spelling bee PBF being the American who speaks his native tongue who's excellent at it but is expected to do so, and PAC is your ESL who does excellent as well but is considered more impressive because it is not his native tongue.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
The PAC vs Floyd debate as how I see it. It is like a English Spelling bee PBF being the American who speaks his native tongue who's excellent at it but is expected to do so, and PAC is your ESL who does excellent as well but is considered more impressive because it is not his native tongue.
im not sure what you mean
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
The PAC vs Floyd debate as how I see it. It is like a English Spelling bee PBF being the American who speaks his native tongue who's excellent at it but is expected to do so, and PAC is your ESL who does excellent as well but is considered more impressive because it is not his native tongue.
im not sure what you mean
Basically i think he means Mayweather is more naturally talented, but Pacquiao looks more impressive because he's reached a similar level without having the same natural gifts.
Of course, it's bollocks ;D
Mayweather does have the more natural technical ability and he does have a naturally higher skill set. But Boxing is so much more than that.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
I'm not so sure. Mayweather has a better defensive skill set, but Pac has the superior offensive skill set. I think they both excel in quite different ways. That is one of the reasons we all want to see them in the ring.
As for the level of opposition I don't think anyone has said that Pac's opposition is bad, but there have been issues with when the opponents have been selected. For instance Mosley....why now? He hasn't earned a shot and has looked poor recently. That in turn reflects very badly on Manny.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.
True but Floyd doesn't beat up his opponent like the way pac beats them up.
True but Floyd doesnt get hit as much as Pac does ;D
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
littlebif
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.
True but Floyd doesn't beat up his opponent like the way pac beats them up.
True but Floyd doesnt get hit as much as Pac does ;D
So true. But this might work to Floyd's disadvantage if he and Pacqquiao meets. This means he is not used to getting hit whereas Manny is used to it (and Pac gets hit hard). If it is Manny who will be delivering that hit (by Mosley) that staggered Floyd in the second round you can be sure it will be followed by several other combinations.;D;D;D
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.
True but Floyd doesn't beat up his opponent like the way pac beats them up.
That's cuz Floyd doesn't pump the crap Pacquiao pumps into his body
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miron_lang
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
You have to take a look of when the fights took place. The Cotto fight was a good one, and he should have followed it up with Mosley after the fallout with Floyd but instead went with Clottey whom no one really gave a shot of beating him. Margarito hasn't had a significant win since July of '08 when he fought Cotto and looked like crap in his 1 comeback fight before fighting Pac.
Again the timing itself has to be questioned. If he was fighting Shane Mosley last year around this time it would be called a good fight. But now after Floyd and Mora? Shane looks like a shot fighter.
After Mosley comes Clottey in the ranking. yeah the timing can be questioned but as he enters the division the TOP 4 were the fighters he have fought.
Those TOP 4 Welters fought each other ( Cotto, Margarito, Mosley ) We can also add Clottey who fought Marg and Cotto. Do we ask those fighters to wait for Pacquiao so that we are sure that these fighters are not coming off losses?
Mosley won againts Mora a style he doesnt look good againts. he lost to Mayweather who is regarded as the best fighter around by many people. Those 2 fights tells us that Mosley is shot following the sensational KO victory over the other major player in these drama in Margarito?
Lets fair him with Berto.... I think your conscience will tell you how Mosley might perform against Berto.
----
Clottey lost to Cotto and Margarito
Cotto lost to Margarito
Mosley lost to Cotto
Margarito lost to Mosley
These are the 4 best fighters when Pac entered the WELTERWEIGHT DIVISION and
PAC FOUGHT THEM ALL.( Will fight Mosley) them coming of bad performances are idiots excuses because they lost to each other. They didnt lose to any GateKeepers or other contenders like Judah, Cintron, Collazo or Quintana. THey lost to their fellow ranked welters.
And Pac is giving away at least 10-15lbs against them on every fight.
Mosley is done because he lost to FLoyd? I thought Floyd is the best fighter around? he's supposed to lose to Floyd
Mosley is done cuz he now slurs his words pretty noticeably. He's also lost a good amount of speed and no longer throws fluid combinations
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
What you have to understand is that most fighters have a peak period when they are good, which lasts only a few months. Before that time they were not ready, after, they are clearly shot. If it cannot be argued a fighter is either too green, or ready to be put to pasture, then clearly he must have been overated.
The fact is that by the above criteria Manny has not fought a single, prime athlete who was capable of testing him. His record is actually very mediocre when you examine it with the facts.
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
What you have to understand is that most fighters have a peak period when they are good, which lasts only a few months. Before that time they were not ready, after, they are clearly shot. If it cannot be argued a fighter is either too green, or ready to be put to pasture, then clearly he must have been overated.
The fact is that by the above criteria Manny has not fought a single, prime athlete who was capable of testing him. His record is actually very mediocre when you examine it with the facts.
Say that to Floyd.
And why this bullcrap about Manny being on PEDS then?
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
littlebif
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
And speaking of tiny, Floyd ain't no natural welterweight either. And for Floyd's career he usually hydrates 1 to 2 pounds on fight night. Many times in Floyd's career where he was outweigh by 10-15 pounds. Like the Corrales fight, Oscar fight, etc.
True but Floyd doesn't beat up his opponent like the way pac beats them up.
True but Floyd doesnt get hit as much as Pac does ;D
True but Floyd can't take as much punishment as Pac or dish out as much punishment as Pac. ;D
Re: Pac's recent opponet is really that bad?
This Pac vs Floyd stuff is truly reaching EPIC proportions. :rolleyes:
You know what? It doesn't really matter whether Pac's opponents have been good or bad.... whether they've been over-the-hill or not.... whether the timing has been exactly just so.... etc. What matters is that Pac has been FIGHTING. What the f*ck has Pretty Boy been doing?
Answer: Jack-SHIT
Case closed..... NEXT!!
:cool:
