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Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
It's not the many weight classes or multiple belts that are the main problems imo, but that its lack of reach to a broader audience. The 3 top sports, most watched, and participated in the US are American football, basketball, and baseball. Why? The pro leagues of the sports are on regular broadcast/terrestrial tv in the US where millions have access to and can watch for free, it's not on premium cable channels where one has to pay. CBS, ABC, NBC can reach an audience of over 100 million or more for their big programs. HBO for instance can only reach about 28 million.
For boxing to regain a foothold again in the realm of mainstream sports, it needs to be on regular television to attract new fans, future participants, to replenish the sport. When you limit your exposure to premium cable subscribers it only hurts the sport. I can understand when the boxers wants to make more money by fighting on PPV, but I believe that should be reserved for the biggest of bouts and not something like Pac-Clottey, where a fight like that should be on regular tv.
So what does this mean? It means that boxing practically hurt itself when rising stars and top stars are only accessible through premium cable channels and not on broadcast television limiting it's exposure to casual sports fans, potential new fans, and potential future participants. Hence why we have a niche sport today. In order for boxing to regain it's lost foothold as a mainstream sport it needs to be back on broadcast tv. The decline of the sport in America can be traced to when it's stars and rising prospects went to HBO and Showtime exclusively limiting their exposure to a wider audience.
Back in the day guys like SRL, Hagler, Hearns, Tyson, Holyfield can be seen on broadcast television rising through the ranks, and in some cases their champsionship bouts like Leonard/Benitez and Holyfield/Qawi were shown on regular tv. And even if their fights were on closed circuit tv (which would only be the biggest of fights), it would later be rebroadcast later on regular tv like Leonard/Duran. It was probably about late 80s that they went to the premium cable channels that really hurt boxing. Oh well.
Discuss.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Great post and I agree however Promoters and Governing bodies share in the blame for this lack of exposure. There’s something terribly wrong when HBO is deciding who fights. What they have effectively done systemically along with the promoters and orgs is change the meaning of "risk and reward".
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
I'm not sure its the biggest problem, but it is a big one. Financially would it make sense to put boxing on there? I think there's an argument for putting more young guys on network TV, but I can't see why either Mayweather or Pacquiao would do it when they make between $10-25m every time they get in the ring.
I think part of the problem is overly expensive PPVs & streaming. Personally I won't stream a fight unless I have no other way to watch it. While I understand some choosing not to if they don't feel it's worth it or don't want to support that particular fight (Pacquiao-Margarito), I personally think boxing fans who don't buy the fights they actually demand (Floyd-Shane & Manny-Cotto) are just justifying why they put all fights involving the two stars on PPV and also lose the 'leverage' argument that they dictate the fights.
What percentage of the population in the US have HBO/Showtime?
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Its synonymous with the decline of the major three networks and them competing with mass cable and media web now though. Back when you had basic cable finances were more readily available and they had much ore pull. Not to mention it doesn't help that peak weekend time slots are obese on 1001 college and bowl games of every sort. The last fight I remember seeing on ABC(?) was Nate Campbell vs Tiger smalls, or Darling Jimenez ???
You know what really hurt? ESPN watering down its yearly schedule and losing a USA Tuesday night fights so they could air more wrestling :p Those were prime developing grounds for many quality guys.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
I long for the day when boxing goes back to free tv and we can watch the likes of Benn v Eubank, Bruno, McGugan live. The equivalent is now Groves v Gegale, Froch and Khan who would be huge in terms of commercial value and long term success. They should do it and come to ITV and the BBC.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
I'm not sure its the biggest problem, but it is a big one. Financially would it make sense to put boxing on there? I think there's an argument for putting more young guys on network TV, but I can't see why either Mayweather or Pacquiao would do it when they make between $10-25m every time they get in the ring.
I think part of the problem is overly expensive PPVs & streaming. Personally I won't stream a fight unless I have no other way to watch it. While I understand some choosing not to if they don't feel it's worth it or don't want to support that particular fight (Pacquiao-Margarito), I personally think boxing fans who don't buy the fights they actually demand (Floyd-Shane & Manny-Cotto) are just justifying why they put all fights involving the two stars on PPV and also lose the 'leverage' argument that they dictate the fights.
What percentage of the population in the US have HBO/Showtime?
HBO has around 28-30 million subscribers, I don't know about Showtime. I remember that figure about HBO when it was said that they were airing Pac/Mosley 360 type shows on CBS (network tv) which can reach 115 to 120 million viewers potentially.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Fights on regular tv are good when they are good fights; they get good ratings and are fun to watch. But they are expensive for the network to put on, because a good fight requires good fighters and you have to pay them. Also, managers aren't willing to risk their prospects on national tv so you get a lot of Star vs. Victim matchups. ESPN, in the 80s, used to have great fights with guys like Tommy Cordoba and Rocky Lopez, among others, but really, today that is almost a career killer. The thinking seems to be that if a guy isn't 28-0, all by KO, that somehow he sucks. That he is limited, or has been exposed, not that he's been in with good opposition, learned and improved.
The biggest thing hurting boxing is the lack of fights for up and coming fighters. There aren't enough places where a guy can fight 4 or 6 rounds every two weeks and learn his trade, without getting fed to some amateur super-star on short notice because he doesn't have money behind him. Think about it...How many guys are considered world champs and veterans at 25 fights and less than 200 rounds? So you get 'top-level' guys with ear muff defense, leaping in with their chin in the air, showing toughness and strength but no "class"...It gets hard to watch.
That's my pet peeve, guys that can't fight and there is no system to change that.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
I just want to point out that Pacquiao v. Mosley, while being aired on Showtime PPV, is getting press on CBS.
I agree completely with the thread, but mainstream tv requires viewers. Does boxing have enough viewers to be on mainstream tv?
Boxing as a sport needs to rebrand itself if it wants to become more mainstream. Europeans are doing a good job with it in a way by having superstar introductions and the video footage of the matches being high quality. For example, watch the Vitali Klitschko's Ali coming out video. Something like revamping the look of the ring so that it is more appealing to tv audiences including making it more high tech. Figuring a way to make the ring walks more electrifying. Having big musical acts at the beginning of the main attraction. Things like that. Boxing needs to somehow gain the hype back.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I long for the day when boxing goes back to free tv and we can watch the likes of Benn v Eubank, Bruno, McGugan live. The equivalent is now Groves v Gegale, Froch and Khan who would be huge in terms of commercial value and long term success. They should do it and come to ITV and the BBC.
Those channels are not willing to match what they're worth financially in Khan's case, or provide a regular platform for their promoters (Warren, Fat Mick, Hayemaker) to justify putting them on there. They're not willing to do that, so why should the fighters be sold short. ITV wouldn't even show Froch/Taylor live or as live ffs.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
I don't think I agree with that. Boxing has dignity; it doesn't need to be cartoonish, with 15 minute ring walks. A fighter should be focusing on the guy he'll be fighting, not shaking his ass like Britney Spears or wearing a Darth Vader mask. If I ever trained a fighter and he expressed a desire to perform some elaborate ring walk, I'd sucker punch him.
Same thing with spectacular kos...It is almost like decision don't count any more, that devising a fight plan, executing it, and sticking to it is wrong unless you 'go for the ko.' Put two good fighters in the ring, guys with class and skill, that hit and don't get it, both of them in there to win, you'll have a good fight and people will watch it.
If the idea is to "improve" boxing by appealing the crowd that only wants blood, gore, flying teeth and 'brutal' kos (which is a part of the thing), then you are heading in the wrong direction and it would be best to just let it die.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Boxing had the mainstream audience in America what caused boxing to lose it completely was going to Showtime/HBO. At one point according to my dad and older brothers boxing was right up there probably a close 2nd with American football in terms of popularity and American Football has been the most watched sport since the late 60s or so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvSmZ...?v=MvSmZepzK1I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sigGgx13l8w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sigGgx13l8w
Hagler-Antuorfermo 1 and Leonard-Benitez were championship bouts on network tv.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWHMrWTjWTw&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWHMrWTjWTw&feature=related
Tyson-Marvis Frazier was on network tv, ABC to be exact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LbX_wHrJcg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LbX_wHrJcg
Holyfield-Qawi 1 was also on network tv.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Remember when HBO did that with "Ko Nation" and Ed lover, dancers and singers escorting each fighter to ring. Was a train wreck. Showtime is on the right track when it launched second series concentrating on up and comers. HBO is wayyyyy to self absorbed and internalized. Frankly fans are to blame as well when most of the clamor is focused on a hand full of fighters....and fighters who refuse to fight.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
It was and had glory days but it's not boxing going away from networks its the other way around. The money is not there and networks are on life support with 500 + channels now and web. The three main networks are going the way of the Sunday morning newspaper and print media. Love the clips...and focus.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
GB makes some good premise points but I don't agree with the conclusion of the thread. What is wrong with today's boxing is not the media it's Promoters. "Don't shoot the messenger."
Promoters don't care about boxing being on regular TV, despite what comes out of their mouths today. They care about lining their pockets. Selling to HBO and Showtime was easier and less risky for the promoters, which is why I think it migrated to the cable networks. They screwed the sport by marketing it's brutality to the cable networks in order to make it easier to move to PPV. "Violence out of the kids eyes." Single sourced money for PPV was easier than having to get multiple sponsors on Aired TV. The problem for the promoters was the monopoly plan backfired. Fighters of today are less known by the causal fans simply because of less exposure on the regular media. The result is, promoters have to work harder at getting their fighters exposed to the regular media and thus we now have the term "crossover star"
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
I don't think I agree with that. Boxing has dignity; it doesn't need to be cartoonish, with 15 minute ring walks. A fighter should be focusing on the guy he'll be fighting, not shaking his ass like Britney Spears or wearing a Darth Vader mask. If I ever trained a fighter and he expressed a desire to perform some elaborate ring walk, I'd sucker punch him.
Same thing with spectacular kos...It is almost like decision don't count any more, that devising a fight plan, executing it, and sticking to it is wrong unless you 'go for the ko.' Put two good fighters in the ring, guys with class and skill, that hit and don't get it, both of them in there to win, you'll have a good fight and people will watch it.
If the idea is to "improve" boxing by appealing the crowd that only wants blood, gore, flying teeth and 'brutal' kos (which is a part of the thing), then you are heading in the wrong direction and it would be best to just let it die.
The thing is what what you have said last is thats what alot of fans are clammering for now. With the rise off MMA as 'competition' people are looking for more in the same in boxing. Besides his out of ring antics most people hate on Mayweather because he's 'boring' and doesnt knock everyone out within 8 rounds, it seems the majority dont regard hitting on not getting hit as a quality worth watching.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
As for the title, I dont know about in the US but in the UK national networks aren't willing to pay enough money to air the fights. Top boxer's demand more money nowadays than they did in the past, the same as every sport, only the networks dont think they will recoup the money they pay out.
Even though I thought the few fights they did show over the past few years did pretty good numbers with little to no promotion :-\. Maybe it wasn't enough for them to feel it was worth while to line their pockets.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
The biggest problem is society. Growing up, there used to be a fight on every Saturday afternoon. Nbc's wide world of sports. CBS, etc. Now a days.. you have all these hyper sensitive parents that complain that putting something like boxing on TV, teaches their kids to be violent. For parents that let the TV raise their kids, it could be. Whatevers on, needs to receive a push from the media networks and being able to net a lot of money per showing and gain the interest of the women of the house. If they had a "boxing with the stars" show everyone and their mom would be tuning into see betty white kick hilary clintons @$$ people would warm up to the sport without even knowing it.
The ufc is on primetime, because with an arsenal of techniques at their disposal, everyone stands a chance of beating everyone else. Also the tap out aspect, gives people the impression that its less barbaric. Professional wrestling manged to throw people through 3 tables and hit them with garbage cans... but its ok.. cuz its just an act. Is the ratio of boxers that threw in the towel vs. guys that died after a fight + the number of plaster wrap, steroid cheats stories worth the number of boring fights that can happen when 6ft 5 ukranian, jabs and sleep walks over a pudgy unheard of heavyweight? Just my two cents....
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
What many posters fail to realize here is that the Promoters put boxing on HBO and Showtime not the public or sport's governing bodies.
It is the Promoters that sell their products exclusively to these to cable networks.
Here's a sample of what Airtime rates cost. please follow the link.
When a fighter starts doing well with his career that's when Top Rank, GBP and other big name promoters look at signing them. On occasion they can go after top armatures. Two of the ways unknown fighters get known outside of local fight exposure.
1. Through sports boxing news coverage. (mainstream media)
2. Through TV broadcast of fights. (fights on Cable or over-the-Air Networks)
When a fighter wins over other sports news writers, he becomes known as what promoters term as a crossover star. When a fighters get written and reported about by non-sports news outlets he is known as even as an even bigger cross-over star. Promoters don't have to work for their fighter to become known. The fighters sell themselves.
It is a "Myth" to think that state boxing is where it is today, related to being aired on regular TV because of how society treats Boxing. Boxing is where it is because of how Promoters market their products.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
What many posters fail to realize here is that the Promoters put boxing on HBO and Showtime not the public or sport's governing bodies.
It is the Promoters that sell their products exclusively to these to cable networks.
Here's a sample of what
Airtime rates cost. please follow the link.
When a fighter starts doing well with his career that's when Top Rank, GBP and other big name promoters look at signing them. On occasion they can go after top armatures. Two of the ways unknown fighters get known outside of local fight exposure.
1. Through sports boxing news coverage. (mainstream media)
2. Through TV broadcast of fights. (fights on Cable or over-the-Air Networks)
When a fighter wins over other sports news writers, he becomes known as what promoters term as a crossover star. When a fighters get written and reported about by non-sports news outlets he is known as even as an even bigger cross-over star. Promoters don't have to work for their fighter to become known. The fighters sell themselves.
It is a "Myth" to think that state boxing is where it is today, related to being aired on regular TV because of how society treats Boxing. Boxing is where it is because of how Promoters market their products.
I actually knew that it was the promotors and the boxers fault for moving to premium cable channel. Network tv never left boxing, it was the other way around. For short term financial gain it hurt the sport overall.
I think there was only 1 person in this thread that belive the tv networks left boxing, while it was the other way around.
Whatever, I think boxing really needs to hit rock bottom for some changes to be made.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
It is very short term for the fighter to say we have to make as much money as possible and it is a short career. They do not think that long term after they have retired they will have commercials for aftershave, free dinners and pantos for the rest of their retired lives.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
It is very short term for the fighter to say we have to make as much money as possible and it is a short career. They do not think that long term after they have retired they will have commercials for aftershave, free dinners and pantos for the rest of their retired lives.
How many fighters can actually get that? Very few. The Brunos, Eubanks & Benns, but not many others.
Every fighter should think about his own financial well-being. It is a potentially short career. If he dies or is seriously injured, how will his family cope with projected future earnings based on pantos & aftershave? Because be clear that is what is at stake.
Promoters, and in the UK at least, the TV companies are who you have to look at for boxing not being on TV. Fighters need to do what is best for them because it's they who are in the ring taking all the risk.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
It is very short term for the fighter to say we have to make as much money as possible and it is a short career. They do not think that long term after they have retired they will have commercials for aftershave, free dinners and pantos for the rest of their retired lives.
How many fighters can actually get that? Very few. The Brunos, Eubanks & Benns, but not many others.
Every fighter should think about his own financial well-being. It is a potentially short career. If he dies or is seriously injured, how will his family cope with projected future earnings based on pantos & aftershave? Because be clear that is what is at stake.
Promoters, and in the UK at least, the TV companies are who you have to look at for boxing not being on TV. Fighters need to do what is best for them because it's they who are in the ring taking all the risk.
The comments I made were tongue in cheek, I know not all fighters have the commercials but Khan is up there in terms of public awareness as Benn and Eubanks were. I was saying he will have a greater legacy in the heart and minds of people if he went on free to air channels. I know what they are doing can be fatal but long term he will benefit after his career is finished.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
The NFL or the league that runs American Football has revenues around 9 billion even more so than the EPL or any soccer league. It's on free tv here in America. Of course what's done is that there are shit load of sponsors and commercials running during halftime and breaks. The Superbowl, the championship game is usually estimated that half of American households have it turned on and being watched when it's on. So the network that is showing the Superbowl and the NFL charges like 3.5 million per 30 second air space.
What does this have to do with boxing? Well for one thing a big match let's say Pac/Floyd can generate that many viewers if promoted correctly particularly with some type of 24/7 show and air on free tv along with the match itself Of course people will be wondering about the prize money. I say guarantee both an enormous amount like say $25 million each and the commercials that are run during prime time can be charged something like $3 million per 30 second air space when the round is over (broadcast 2 of them) or just before the main event is to start, broadcast a few of them and after. The money can be split between the network showing the fight and the 2 fighters teams when it comes to the commercials. A fight of the caliber of FLoyd/Manny will guarantee to be the Superbowl of boxing, hell I even think if Haye/Wlad is promoted correctly can be a big seller in the US. BUt of course its just an idea. It can be done. BUt of course you would need a promoter with balls and brilliant planning with some network executive to make it work. The Superbowl isn't on PPV and it still generates so much money.
Or fighters like Manny and Floyd can pull a Mike Tyson move. Mike Tyson after getting out of prison had his 2nd fight on free network tv. It was the Buster Mathis Jr. fight and was shown on the Fox network. It generated massive ratings. I remember Don KIng saying he wanted to show the public a free airing of Mike Tyson and that if they wanted to see more, then pay for his next fight which was against Bruno on PPV. It was a bold and genius move by King. That Frank Bruno fight generated like 1.36 million buys, which was massive for 1996. Say what you want about Don King, but back then he had some badass ideas that worked.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I can't believe I"m saying this but I do agree with Arum, although it was him that was partially at fault for helping to move boxing to premium cable. He has a point especially on the NFL. I was thinking the NFL could make a killing money wise if it was on premium cable and it's playoff games and SB was on PPV, but it would fuck the sport in the long term.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I can't believe I"m saying this but I do agree with Arum, although it was him that was partially at fault for helping to move boxing to premium cable. He has a point especially on the NFL. I was thinking the NFL could make a killing money wise if it was on premium cable and it's playoff games and SB was on PPV, but it would fuck the sport in the long term.
From a business standpoint, I suppose it's genius. In the overall question as to why boxing has taken a back seat it is a kind of "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenario. Look, their is something wrong in pugilism when broadcaster's like HBO and Showtime are deciding who fights whom.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I can't believe I"m saying this but I do agree with Arum, although it was him that was partially at fault for helping to move boxing to premium cable. He has a point especially on the NFL. I was thinking the NFL could make a killing money wise if it was on premium cable and it's playoff games and SB was on PPV, but it would fuck the sport in the long term.
From a business standpoint, I suppose it's genius. In the overall question as to why boxing has taken a back seat it is a kind of "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenario. Look, their is something wrong in pugilism when broadcaster's like HBO and Showtime are deciding who fights whom.
I just got done reading a Sport's Illustrated article about Rocky Marciano a few days ago. And Rocky was particularly upset with boxing being taken out of high school and the colleges as a sport, this happened in the 1950s. That to me was another blow to boxing. Sports like football, basketball, and baseball are at the high school and college level everywhere in America. They have a system to introduce and produce talent, meaning they are already scouting the youngsters and introducing them to the sport. Boxing doesn't have that luxury anymore. And with the litigious nature of the US, I don't foresee it being a high school or college sport again. Just imagine some soccer mom suing the high school district because her son got beaten up and embarrassed in some gym wars?
So the decline in boxing in America imo was a combination of things like it being removed from HS and colleges and add to the fact it was completely removed from network television and you have a niche sport.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I can't believe I"m saying this but I do agree with Arum, although it was him that was partially at fault for helping to move boxing to premium cable. He has a point especially on the NFL. I was thinking the NFL could make a killing money wise if it was on premium cable and it's playoff games and SB was on PPV, but it would fuck the sport in the long term.
What a bold face liar! HBO is out for HBO ratings, Arum is the one selling to HBO because it's lump sum money. You don't have to work as hard as promoter when HBO buys the fights. HBO then turns around an markets the fight. It's like outsourcing the promotion. If you have to promote the fight, You have to be the one to buy the Air time and do all kinds of shit to draw attention to sell the fight. There is a lot of fucking work to do. You might not have recognized it, but you've seen GBP do this with the news infomercials on Floyd's fights although they could just call TMZ with his schedule. In Dallas, it was Jones doing the selling. And what Arum is really after, is those free advertisements he gets from the main stream new media. With Pacquiao, it is very easy because news media follows him. That shit about the other promoters and Alexander was just setting up to get Alexander over to Top Rank. I agree, he really is a "cluster fuk".
The NFL already does PPV in the form of Sports Cable network channels. And I'd be willing to bet, it brings down the ratings but makes them more money.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I can't believe I"m saying this but I do agree with Arum, although it was him that was partially at fault for helping to move boxing to premium cable. He has a point especially on the NFL. I was thinking the NFL could make a killing money wise if it was on premium cable and it's playoff games and SB was on PPV, but it would fuck the sport in the long term.
From a business standpoint, I suppose it's genius. In the overall question as to why boxing has taken a back seat it is a kind of "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenario. Look, their is something wrong in pugilism when broadcaster's like HBO and Showtime are deciding who fights whom.
I just got done reading a Sport's Illustrated article about Rocky Marciano a few days ago. And Rocky was particularly upset with boxing being taken out of high school and the colleges as a sport, this happened in the 1950s. That to me was another blow to boxing. Sports like football, basketball, and baseball are at the high school and college level everywhere in America. They have a system to introduce and produce talent, meaning they are already scouting the youngsters and introducing them to the sport. Boxing doesn't have that luxury anymore. And with the litigious nature of the US, I don't foresee it being a high school or college sport again.
Just imagine some soccer mom suing the high school district because her son got beaten up and embarrassed in some gym wars?
So the decline in boxing in America imo was a combination of things like it being removed from HS and colleges and add to the fact it was completely removed from network television and you have a niche sport.
Lmao. I hear yeah man. We live in a world of watching kids play in the front yard wearing helmets lol.
I'm a bit of a stickler on history and Marciano peaked out in perhaps the weakest division in boxing history. Walcott had him and he was ripe and then Suzi Q. Joe was an old man. Charles had him in the second fight and he was a write off in the first. Holmes entered the division in a similar fashion.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I can't believe I"m saying this but I do agree with Arum, although it was him that was partially at fault for helping to move boxing to premium cable. He has a point especially on the NFL. I was thinking the NFL could make a killing money wise if it was on premium cable and it's playoff games and SB was on PPV, but it would fuck the sport in the long term.
What a bold face liar! HBO is out for HBO ratings, Arum is the one selling to HBO because it's lump sum money. You don't have to work as hard as promoter when HBO buys the fights. HBO then turns around an markets the fight. It's like outsourcing the promotion. If you have to promote the fight, You have to be the one to buy the Air time and do all kinds of shit to draw attention to sell the fight. There is a lot of fucking work to do. You might not have recognized it, but you've seen GBP do this with the news infomercials on Floyd's fights although they could just call TMZ with his schedule. In Dallas, it was Jones doing the selling. And what Arum is really after, is those free advertisements he gets from the main stream new media. With Pacquiao, it is very easy because news media follows him. That shit about the other promoters and Alexander was just setting up to get Alexander over to Top Rank. I agree, he really is a "cluster fuk".
The NFL already does PPV in the form of Sports Cable network channels. And I'd be willing to bet, it brings down the ratings but makes them more money.
That shit ain't like boxing's PPV or boxing on being on HBO and Showtime. When's the last time you had to pay $54.99 to see Greenbay-Philly in the playoffs? Or whatever team playing in the Superbowl? Or any NFL team in the playoffs? And hell you get to see the local NFL team on the local tv network or a cluster of games every sunday on Fox, NBC, CBS.
That example isn't comparable at all.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fan johnny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I can't believe I"m saying this but I do agree with Arum, although it was him that was partially at fault for helping to move boxing to premium cable. He has a point especially on the NFL. I was thinking the NFL could make a killing money wise if it was on premium cable and it's playoff games and SB was on PPV, but it would fuck the sport in the long term.
What a bold face liar! HBO is out for HBO ratings, Arum is the one selling to HBO because it's lump sum money. You don't have to work as hard as promoter when HBO buys the fights. HBO then turns around an markets the fight. It's like outsourcing the promotion. If you have to promote the fight, You have to be the one to buy the Air time and do all kinds of shit to draw attention to sell the fight. There is a lot of fucking work to do. You might not have recognized it, but you've seen GBP do this with the news infomercials on Floyd's fights although they could just call TMZ with his schedule. In Dallas, it was Jones doing the selling. And what Arum is really after, is those free advertisements he gets from the main stream new media. With Pacquiao, it is very easy because news media follows him. That shit about the other promoters and Alexander was just setting up to get Alexander over to Top Rank. I agree, he really is a "cluster fuk".
The NFL already does PPV in the form of Sports Cable network channels. And I'd be willing to bet, it brings down the ratings but makes them more money.
That shit ain't like boxing's PPV or boxing on being on HBO and Showtime. When's the last time you had to pay $54.99 to see Greenbay-Philly in the playoffs? Or whatever team playing in the Superbowl? Or any NFL team in the playoffs? And hell you get to see the local NFL team on the local tv network or a cluster of games every sunday on Fox, NBC, CBS.
That example isn't comparable at all.
Who said it was the same. My point being only that subscriptions are a move that causes a downturn in viewership because subscriptions cost. There is a point when you put too much financial demand on the fan and they do something else with their time. Promoters have unintentionally destoryed the fan base for the sport of boxing with their greed and point the finger at everyone else.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
It's not the many weight classes or multiple belts that are the main problems imo, but that its lack of reach to a broader audience. The 3 top sports, most watched, and participated in the US are American football, basketball, and baseball. Why? The pro leagues of the sports are on regular broadcast/terrestrial tv in the US where millions have access to and can watch for free, it's not on premium cable channels where one has to pay. CBS, ABC, NBC can reach an audience of over 100 million or more for their big programs. HBO for instance can only reach about 28 million.
For boxing to regain a foothold again in the realm of mainstream sports, it needs to be on regular television to attract new fans, future participants, to replenish the sport. When you limit your exposure to premium cable subscribers it only hurts the sport. I can understand when the boxers wants to make more money by fighting on PPV, but I believe that should be reserved for the biggest of bouts and not something like Pac-Clottey, where a fight like that should be on regular tv.
So what does this mean? It means that boxing practically hurt itself when rising stars and top stars are only accessible through premium cable channels and not on broadcast television limiting it's exposure to casual sports fans, potential new fans, and potential future participants. Hence why we have a niche sport today. In order for boxing to regain it's lost foothold as a mainstream sport it needs to be back on broadcast tv. The decline of the sport in America can be traced to when it's stars and rising prospects went to HBO and Showtime exclusively limiting their exposure to a wider audience.
Back in the day guys like SRL, Hagler, Hearns, Tyson, Holyfield can be seen on broadcast television rising through the ranks, and in some cases their champsionship bouts like Leonard/Benitez and Holyfield/Qawi were shown on regular tv. And even if their fights were on closed circuit tv (which would only be the biggest of fights), it would later be rebroadcast later on regular tv like Leonard/Duran. It was probably about late 80s that they went to the premium cable channels that really hurt boxing. Oh well.
Discuss.
Like you and every other boxing fan, I'd love for boxing to make its way back into the realm of mainstream sports. But the possibilities of that happening are pretty nil and none. The movement is toward more PPV, not less. The average fan cannot possibly keep up with the number of fights on PPV. It's become almost a weekly thing. And the dividing line between PPV and regular TV is getting lower and lower. You're right when you say that PPV should be reserved for the mega-fights and not just every good fight. But unfortunately, the movement seems to be in only one direction. I would appear there's no turning back. It's like charging for services on an airplane. It used to be that you paid your ticket, and everything else was free (well.... obviously included in the ticket fare). But now it seems you pay extra for everything. Meals, baggage, movies...... can pay toilets be far behind?
I know I sound pessimistic, but it would take a major movement to reverse the direction of boxing and put it back on the CBS's, NBC's, and the Fox's of the TV landscape. Here's hoping that major movement happens.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
It's not the many weight classes or multiple belts that are the main problems imo, but that its lack of reach to a broader audience. The 3 top sports, most watched, and participated in the US are American football, basketball, and baseball. Why? The pro leagues of the sports are on regular broadcast/terrestrial tv in the US where millions have access to and can watch for free, it's not on premium cable channels where one has to pay. CBS, ABC, NBC can reach an audience of over 100 million or more for their big programs. HBO for instance can only reach about 28 million.
For boxing to regain a foothold again in the realm of mainstream sports, it needs to be on regular television to attract new fans, future participants, to replenish the sport. When you limit your exposure to premium cable subscribers it only hurts the sport. I can understand when the boxers wants to make more money by fighting on PPV, but I believe that should be reserved for the biggest of bouts and not something like Pac-Clottey, where a fight like that should be on regular tv.
So what does this mean? It means that boxing practically hurt itself when rising stars and top stars are only accessible through premium cable channels and not on broadcast television limiting it's exposure to casual sports fans, potential new fans, and potential future participants. Hence why we have a niche sport today. In order for boxing to regain it's lost foothold as a mainstream sport it needs to be back on broadcast tv. The decline of the sport in America can be traced to when it's stars and rising prospects went to HBO and Showtime exclusively limiting their exposure to a wider audience.
Back in the day guys like SRL, Hagler, Hearns, Tyson, Holyfield can be seen on broadcast television rising through the ranks, and in some cases their champsionship bouts like Leonard/Benitez and Holyfield/Qawi were shown on regular tv. And even if their fights were on closed circuit tv (which would only be the biggest of fights), it would later be rebroadcast later on regular tv like Leonard/Duran. It was probably about late 80s that they went to the premium cable channels that really hurt boxing. Oh well.
Discuss.
Like you and every other boxing fan, I'd love for boxing to make its way back into the realm of mainstream sports. But the possibilities of that happening are pretty nil and none. The movement is toward more PPV, not less. The average fan cannot possibly keep up with the number of fights on PPV. It's become almost a weekly thing. And the dividing line between PPV and regular TV is getting lower and lower. You're right when you say that PPV should be reserved for the mega-fights and not just every good fight. But unfortunately, the movement seems to be in only one direction. I would appear there's no turning back. It's like charging for services on an airplane. It used to be that you paid your ticket, and everything else was free (well.... obviously included in the ticket fare). But now it seems you pay extra for everything. Meals, baggage, movies...... can pay toilets be far behind?
I know I sound pessimistic, but it would take a major movement to reverse the direction of boxing and put it back on the CBS's, NBC's, and the Fox's of the TV landscape. Here's hoping that major movement happens.
Ahh... but what you are not recognizing is new media. PPV/subscription on a primarily tab app. which can easily move toward the new touch screen TV's. Old promoters will die off and new promoters will be more new media tech savvy. People will start viewing fights based on ratings and social networking fads just like youtube. (you can be online with saddo while watching live without having to look away from the screen) Then we'll start seeing the viral fight where even the 7-0 fighter can make millions. With boxing you don't have to watch an hour before something really exciting happens like with some sports. With boxing, if you look a way in that instant, you could miss a knock out. HBO, Showtime and the like are going to compete in this new media delivery because they are loosing out to the net-flicks. Why should I pay a big subscription and have the view selection programmed, when I can program a selection at my pleasure. Podcast didn't take off, I think because the screens are too small. With the faster multi-core processors increased throughput to 5gb a sec. making performance issues obsolete, Tablets are just the start.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
It's not the many weight classes or multiple belts that are the main problems imo, but that its lack of reach to a broader audience. The 3 top sports, most watched, and participated in the US are American football, basketball, and baseball. Why? The pro leagues of the sports are on regular broadcast/terrestrial tv in the US where millions have access to and can watch for free, it's not on premium cable channels where one has to pay. CBS, ABC, NBC can reach an audience of over 100 million or more for their big programs. HBO for instance can only reach about 28 million.
For boxing to regain a foothold again in the realm of mainstream sports, it needs to be on regular television to attract new fans, future participants, to replenish the sport. When you limit your exposure to premium cable subscribers it only hurts the sport. I can understand when the boxers wants to make more money by fighting on PPV, but I believe that should be reserved for the biggest of bouts and not something like Pac-Clottey, where a fight like that should be on regular tv.
So what does this mean? It means that boxing practically hurt itself when rising stars and top stars are only accessible through premium cable channels and not on broadcast television limiting it's exposure to casual sports fans, potential new fans, and potential future participants. Hence why we have a niche sport today. In order for boxing to regain it's lost foothold as a mainstream sport it needs to be back on broadcast tv. The decline of the sport in America can be traced to when it's stars and rising prospects went to HBO and Showtime exclusively limiting their exposure to a wider audience.
Back in the day guys like SRL, Hagler, Hearns, Tyson, Holyfield can be seen on broadcast television rising through the ranks, and in some cases their champsionship bouts like Leonard/Benitez and Holyfield/Qawi were shown on regular tv. And even if their fights were on closed circuit tv (which would only be the biggest of fights), it would later be rebroadcast later on regular tv like Leonard/Duran. It was probably about late 80s that they went to the premium cable channels that really hurt boxing. Oh well.
Discuss.
Like you and every other boxing fan, I'd love for boxing to make its way back into the realm of mainstream sports. But the possibilities of that happening are pretty nil and none. The movement is toward more PPV, not less. The average fan cannot possibly keep up with the number of fights on PPV. It's become almost a weekly thing. And the dividing line between PPV and regular TV is getting lower and lower. You're right when you say that PPV should be reserved for the mega-fights and not just every good fight. But unfortunately, the movement seems to be in only one direction. I would appear there's no turning back. It's like charging for services on an airplane. It used to be that you paid your ticket, and everything else was free (well.... obviously included in the ticket fare). But now it seems you pay extra for everything. Meals, baggage, movies...... can pay toilets be far behind?
I know I sound pessimistic, but it would take a major movement to reverse the direction of boxing and put it back on the CBS's, NBC's, and the Fox's of the TV landscape. Here's hoping that major movement happens.
Sadly true. I lament at boxing’s decline and acceptance of mediocrity. I am lucky as a fan to have grown up when I did. People actually fought each other and there was only one belt. Later 2 but no silver, platinum, interim, super crap. They all share the blame. The fighters, the promoters, Hbo, Ppv , idiotic theories on p4p playing into their hands, the whole works. It’s a love hate relationship. Like heroin.
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Re: Boxing's biggest problem is that it's on HBO/Showtime and not on regular tv
I thought this poster at another forum sum it up quite nicely.
Quote:
I can understand where Lamont is coming from, but the real issue is with the sport of boxing and the niche (market) communities that follow the sport. From an economic stand point, at least in the U.S, the consumer (regardless of ethnicity) has access to any and all types of sports that are available on cable network/regular networks. Sports like Basketball, Baseball, and Football have a huge following because of the availability to watch in a consistent, cyclical basis providing any person (with a preference) the ability to follow an athlete (Terrel Owens, Ochocinco, Mark Sanchez, D.Wade, L. James) . More specifically, many "minorities" (i.e., Black, Hispanic, Non-white) follow those sports because ease of access. My theory is simply this, because the sport of boxing is offered in premium channels and is further exclusive with PPV for higher end fights, many people outside of the niche sport won't invest time (and money). Demand for the sport is inelastic.
