I now believe the 140 division is garbage.
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I now believe the 140 division is garbage.
Always half thought that anyway.
It's an exciting division because a lot of the fighters are of similar standard, but the talent depth is fairly standard. It has been for a while. There's no elite fighter in the division. A lot of good fighters, but none even remotely close to the level of even someone like Cotto imo.
I think Marquez beats any fighter at 140.
I think its a combination of hyping some guys and also overhyping the decline of Morales. Sure he wasnt his best but really, losing a close fight to former world champ David Diaz wasnt that bad, it didnt make Morales shot, and he had won his other comeback fights. Willie Limond tested a much fresher, faster Amir Khan and Morales beat him so the idea that he was going to be blown away at the slightest challenge was probably just being overly critical of where Morales is right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
As for Marquez beating anyone at 140 I dont agree. Id have him a live underdog against Bradley, Morales and Guerrero. Id be mildly surprised if Marquez won any of those fights.
For me Guerrero has really put himself on the map this weekend. Although I expected him to stop Katsidis inside 6 or 7 rounds and it went the distance I still thought he imposed himself on the fight more than Marquez, especially early on.
I know Guerrero is currently at 135 but he loooked much bigger than Kats and I think belongs at 140 where he suddenly becomes a major major player.
Well , I still think 140 is a very good division. Styles make fights and Khan vs Morales would be an easy win for Khan . As for JMM, I think he beats Morales quite easily, has a tough win against Guerrero and another close win against BradleyQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboI think its a combination of hyping some guys and also overhyping the decline of Morales. Sure he wasnt his best but really, losing a close fight to former world champ David Diaz wasnt that bad, it didnt make Morales shot, and he had won his other comeback fights. Willie Limond tested a much fresher, faster Amir Khan and Morales beat him so the idea that he was going to be blown away at the slightest challenge was probably just being overly critical of where Morales is right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
As for Marquez beating anyone at 140 I dont agree. Id have him a live underdog against Bradley, Morales and Guerrero. Id be mildly surprised if Marquez won any of those fights.
For me Guerrero has really put himself on the map this weekend. Although I expected him to stop Katsidis inside 6 or 7 rounds and it went the distance I still thought he imposed himself on the fight more than Marquez, especially early on.
I know Guerrero is currently at 135 but he loooked much bigger than Kats and I think belongs at 140 where he suddenly becomes a major major player.
Marquez has gone life and death with Casamayor, Juan Diaz and Katsidis since moving up.Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645Well , I still think 140 is a very good division. Styles make fights and Khan vs Morales would be an easy win for Khan . As for JMM, I think he beats Morales quite easily, has a tough win against Guerrero and another close win against BradleyQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboI think its a combination of hyping some guys and also overhyping the decline of Morales. Sure he wasnt his best but really, losing a close fight to former world champ David Diaz wasnt that bad, it didnt make Morales shot, and he had won his other comeback fights. Willie Limond tested a much fresher, faster Amir Khan and Morales beat him so the idea that he was going to be blown away at the slightest challenge was probably just being overly critical of where Morales is right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
As for Marquez beating anyone at 140 I dont agree. Id have him a live underdog against Bradley, Morales and Guerrero. Id be mildly surprised if Marquez won any of those fights.
For me Guerrero has really put himself on the map this weekend. Although I expected him to stop Katsidis inside 6 or 7 rounds and it went the distance I still thought he imposed himself on the fight more than Marquez, especially early on.
I know Guerrero is currently at 135 but he loooked much bigger than Kats and I think belongs at 140 where he suddenly becomes a major major player.
I don't see anything in his recent form that suggests to me he's performing at a level above the likes of Bradley, Guerrero and Khan.
I think he's a huge challenge for all of them, but he's getting older, slower, easier to hit and has been floored and hurt several times recently.
He's past his best now and I think the above guys have too much for him at this stage. i forsee some titanic, even Morales Maidana like struggles, but I no longer regard him as the man to beat in the weight class.
Actually, that's not quite what I mean. In terms of his legacy and status he IS the man to beat of course. But I no longer feel he is the best fighter in the weight class.
If I was Bradley, Guerrero, Khan, or even Judah, Alexander, Maidana etc I would be desperate to get in the ring with him because great fighter that he is, he is vulnerable and slowing.
I see him as a prize fish that has been washed upstream and caught in shallow waters and the first fisherman who gets there with the right bait could reel him in.
Just because Morales fought a great fight and Maidana seemingly struggled with him does not automatically mean that we can dismiss what is a fairly engrossing division. Maidana struggles with Maidana therefore 140 = crap is a silly argument to make. There are a lot of intriguing matchups that can be made and I think it's more about an old fighter selecting his type of opponent carefully and proving a few people wrong.
It's still a very decent division.
You called it correctly on the Katsidis fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI think its a combination of hyping some guys and also overhyping the decline of Morales. Sure he wasnt his best but really, losing a close fight to former world champ David Diaz wasnt that bad, it didnt make Morales shot, and he had won his other comeback fights. Willie Limond tested a much fresher, faster Amir Khan and Morales beat him so the idea that he was going to be blown away at the slightest challenge was probably just being overly critical of where Morales is right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
As for Marquez beating anyone at 140 I dont agree. Id have him a live underdog against Bradley, Morales and Guerrero. Id be mildly surprised if Marquez won any of those fights.
For me Guerrero has really put himself on the map this weekend. Although I expected him to stop Katsidis inside 6 or 7 rounds and it went the distance I still thought he imposed himself on the fight more than Marquez, especially early on.
I know Guerrero is currently at 135 but he loooked much bigger than Kats and I think belongs at 140 where he suddenly becomes a major major player.
Although you must admit Katsidis fought his heart out and hurt Guerrero to the body.
Also got absolutely screwed outta a knockdown and lost two points which was outrageous. 1 point maybe, but not two.
Still Guerrero was in great shape and dominated almost every round.
Yeah the knockdown call was bizarre. I can only assume he felt that Gurrero tripped over Katsidis' feet or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkYou called it correctly on the Katsidis fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboI think its a combination of hyping some guys and also overhyping the decline of Morales. Sure he wasnt his best but really, losing a close fight to former world champ David Diaz wasnt that bad, it didnt make Morales shot, and he had won his other comeback fights. Willie Limond tested a much fresher, faster Amir Khan and Morales beat him so the idea that he was going to be blown away at the slightest challenge was probably just being overly critical of where Morales is right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
As for Marquez beating anyone at 140 I dont agree. Id have him a live underdog against Bradley, Morales and Guerrero. Id be mildly surprised if Marquez won any of those fights.
For me Guerrero has really put himself on the map this weekend. Although I expected him to stop Katsidis inside 6 or 7 rounds and it went the distance I still thought he imposed himself on the fight more than Marquez, especially early on.
I know Guerrero is currently at 135 but he loooked much bigger than Kats and I think belongs at 140 where he suddenly becomes a major major player.
Although you must admit Katsidis fought his heart out and hurt Guerrero to the body.
Also got absolutely screwed outta a knockdown and lost two points which was outrageous. 1 point maybe, but not two.
Still Guerrero was in great shape and dominated almost every round.
The fight did go exactly how I thought, except I felt that Katsidis would fold around the 6th. He almost did but then Guerrero seemed to decide it was safer to coast to a UD rather than take a risk of outpunching himself or exposing himself.
Still it was a very impressive win and he looked huge at the weight. I think he could easily fight at 140 and maybe even 147 eventually.
I like him a lot and think he's a real test to Marquez. I think he beats him although obviously that's not going to be an easy win to get.
With Marquez lately it has seemed to me that early on he doesn't have the power at this weight to impose himself fully and has to rely on his greater endurance and skills which allow him to take over later in the fights.
He really went life and death with Casa, Juan Diaz and Katsidis over the first half of those fights and then his superior abilities and sheer tenaciousness meant they faded and he got them out of there.
I don't think Guerrero will slow down or wilt. Plus he has more tools than those other guys and doesn't just have to go to war. His height and reach will be a factor, as will his freshness and relative youth.
I think he's going to become one to watch over the next couple years.
I actually wish he was 140 now. Guerrero vs Maidana, Alexander or Judah are all very appetising.
140 is a live division.
Khan vs Bradley
Judah vs JMM
Alexander vs MM
Guerrero vs Matthysse
and maybe Brandon Rios if he can't get a major fight at 135
After the way Erik Morales fought against Marcos Maidana, that fight he was going to have vs JMM sounds good to me now.
It is garbage. They need Pac and JMM there to spice it up. And I believe it will happen late this year.
funny thing though, 140 is a hell of a lot better and packed now than when Manny won the lineal title from Hatton haha, either way if 140 is garbage what does that say about Roach's new prodigy in KhanQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
The only thing is, i'm not sure what this says about Marquez' decline... I think he'd loose to any fresh faced boxer between 135 & 140.
Its a shame they never fought eachother in there prime, but there still fresh enough now to create a FOTY candidate. Both men are very skillful but like to get stuck in and exchange punches, it would be a cracking fight between two legends. It would be hard for me though because i like both fighters equally so i don't know who to root for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusAgreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
The only thing is, i'm not sure what this says about Marquez' decline... I think he'd loose to any fresh faced boxer between 135 & 140.
I guess some posters boxing knowledge isnt as good as we thought either. :p I dont know how many times you have to say styles make fights before some people will listen. Nope its just records make fights I guess. Some kind of warped theory of relativity is going on in some peoples minds. Just because someone does better against a common opponent doesnt mean they would beat the person being compared. 140 is one of the best divisions in boxing right now. What makes a division good? Apparently one or two guys dominating, or a top ten of fighters, that could possibly beat any other top 10 guy on any given night?
Styles do make fights but it is not just the Maidana vs Morales fight that made me believe 140 is not as good as it seem. Alexander at 23 years old folded against maybe the only really good fighter, Bradley. Khan hanged on for dear life against a very limited Maidana. The same Maidana who almost lost to a blown up featherweight who came out of retirement. Who else at 140 is relevant? Judah, JMM, Rios? Now that is just reaching for some kind of answer, two of those guys dont fight at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Explain why you think 140 is one of the best divisions right now.
At this point, Morales has done more above 135 than JMM. I'm going with Eric for the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainStyles do make fights but it is not just the Maidana vs Morales fight that made me believe 140 is not as good as it seem. Alexander at 23 years old folded against maybe the only really good fighter, Bradley. Khan hanged on for dear life against a very limited Maidana. The same Maidana who almost lost to a blown up featherweight who came out of retirement. Who else at 140 is relevant? Judah, JMM, Rios? Now that is just reaching for some kind of answer, two of those guys dont fight at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Explain why you think 140 is one of the best divisions right now.
You just have to watch the fights to see that many of the most exciting, explosive and skillful fighters are currently in the 140 lb division.
Come on rains, Bradley, Khan, Marquez, Rios, Guerrero, Maidana, Judah, Morales, Katsidis, Juan Diaz. That's a ton of talent in one weight class.
These guys have produced some of the best fights of the last couple years, Khan Maidana, Morales Maidana, Marquez Katsidis, Marquez Diaz 1 & 2, Rios Acosta, Guerrero Katsidis, Maidana Ortiz.
Some of these fights were at 135 but this pool of fighters can all fight each other, and that makes this one of the main attractions for setting up great fights.
Try and think of another weight class where you can think up as many great matchups.
I would say outside of the super middleweight divisionand maybe the lower weights with Donaire, 140 is where the action is right now.
Well if you look at the depth of the division Julius its pretty obvious that 140 is a great division. Theres also alot of up and comers that havent gotten a chance to show their class yet. If you look at lets say boxrec's rankings, its hard to find a guy in the top 30 who you look at and say this guy is way overrated. Theres alot of fights to be made to clear up the rankings to the point where you could say, ok these 3-4 guys are the top dogs of the division.
its not that the 140's have the best fighters...but there's potential for great competitive action fights. ward & gatti weren't the best boxers but they made some great fights. if you weren't happy watching the fights that took place over the past weekend...maybe boxing isn't for you.
Anyone who thinks Marquez will just stomp the 140 pounders or that the division is crap doesn't know anything about boxing. Styles' make fights, and Morales always had an amazing chin which accounts for Maidana's biggest advantage which is power, if a guy can take his shots then his technique isn't that good. Let's see Marquez or Morales try to keep up with guys like Khan or Bradley, they won't be able to.
exactly most of those guys are at 135Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainStyles do make fights but it is not just the Maidana vs Morales fight that made me believe 140 is not as good as it seem. Alexander at 23 years old folded against maybe the only really good fighter, Bradley. Khan hanged on for dear life against a very limited Maidana. The same Maidana who almost lost to a blown up featherweight who came out of retirement. Who else at 140 is relevant? Judah, JMM, Rios? Now that is just reaching for some kind of answer, two of those guys dont fight at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Explain why you think 140 is one of the best divisions right now.
You just have to watch the fights to see that many of the most exciting, explosive and skillful fighters are currently in the 140 lb division.
Come on rains, Bradley, Khan, Marquez, Rios, Guerrero, Maidana, Judah, Morales, Katsidis, Juan Diaz. That's a ton of talent in one weight class.
These guys have produced some of the best fights of the last couple years, Khan Maidana, Morales Maidana, Marquez Katsidis, Marquez Diaz 1 & 2, Rios Acosta, Guerrero Katsidis, Maidana Ortiz.
Some of these fights were at 135 but this pool of fighters can all fight each other, and that makes this one of the main attractions for setting up great fights.
Try and think of another weight class where you can think up as many great matchups.
I would say outside of the super middleweight divisionand maybe the lower weights with Donaire, 140 is where the action is right now.
If that fight ever happens I want a sig bet :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainAt this point, Morales has done more above 135 than JMM. I'm going with Eric for the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Who you got ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusIf that fight ever happens I want a sig bet :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainAt this point, Morales has done more above 135 than JMM. I'm going with Eric for the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
That just tells me there is a lot of evenly matched fighters. When i said the division isn't that strong, i was comparing it to 5 years ago when it really was the strongest in Boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainStyles do make fights but it is not just the Maidana vs Morales fight that made me believe 140 is not as good as it seem. Alexander at 23 years old folded against maybe the only really good fighter, Bradley. Khan hanged on for dear life against a very limited Maidana. The same Maidana who almost lost to a blown up featherweight who came out of retirement. Who else at 140 is relevant? Judah, JMM, Rios? Now that is just reaching for some kind of answer, two of those guys dont fight at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Explain why you think 140 is one of the best divisions right now.
You just have to watch the fights to see that many of the most exciting, explosive and skillful fighters are currently in the 140 lb division.
Come on rains, Bradley, Khan, Marquez, Rios, Guerrero, Maidana, Judah, Morales, Katsidis, Juan Diaz. That's a ton of talent in one weight class.
These guys have produced some of the best fights of the last couple years, Khan Maidana, Morales Maidana, Marquez Katsidis, Marquez Diaz 1 & 2, Rios Acosta, Guerrero Katsidis, Maidana Ortiz.
Some of these fights were at 135 but this pool of fighters can all fight each other, and that makes this one of the main attractions for setting up great fights.
Try and think of another weight class where you can think up as many great matchups.
I would say outside of the super middleweight divisionand maybe the lower weights with Donaire, 140 is where the action is right now.
Marquez man. By KO. Counter-left-uppercut to the nostril :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBWho you got ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusIf that fight ever happens I want a sig bet :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainAt this point, Morales has done more above 135 than JMM. I'm going with Eric for the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
its on, i got eric you got jmm. 1 month sigi. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusIf that fight ever happens I want a sig bet :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainAt this point, Morales has done more above 135 than JMM. I'm going with Eric for the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Not if you actually watch the fights it doesn't. Come on Ono you telling me that watching guys like Bradley, Marquez, Khan, Alexander, Maidana, Morales, Guerrero etc you are unable to see a qualitive difference compared to when the top guys outside of Hatton were Lazcano, Soliman Mbay, Witter, Urango, Gavin Rees, Vivian Harris and Carlos Moussa?? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by onoThat just tells me there is a lot of evenly matched fighters. When i said the division isn't that strong, i was comparing it to 5 years ago when it really was the strongest in Boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainStyles do make fights but it is not just the Maidana vs Morales fight that made me believe 140 is not as good as it seem. Alexander at 23 years old folded against maybe the only really good fighter, Bradley. Khan hanged on for dear life against a very limited Maidana. The same Maidana who almost lost to a blown up featherweight who came out of retirement. Who else at 140 is relevant? Judah, JMM, Rios? Now that is just reaching for some kind of answer, two of those guys dont fight at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Explain why you think 140 is one of the best divisions right now.
You just have to watch the fights to see that many of the most exciting, explosive and skillful fighters are currently in the 140 lb division.
Come on rains, Bradley, Khan, Marquez, Rios, Guerrero, Maidana, Judah, Morales, Katsidis, Juan Diaz. That's a ton of talent in one weight class.
These guys have produced some of the best fights of the last couple years, Khan Maidana, Morales Maidana, Marquez Katsidis, Marquez Diaz 1 & 2, Rios Acosta, Guerrero Katsidis, Maidana Ortiz.
Some of these fights were at 135 but this pool of fighters can all fight each other, and that makes this one of the main attractions for setting up great fights.
Try and think of another weight class where you can think up as many great matchups.
I would say outside of the super middleweight divisionand maybe the lower weights with Donaire, 140 is where the action is right now.
There's alot of solid guys, but there nothing special. But that doesn't matter i just think everyone expect's too much, there's still alot of interesting match ups to be made.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboNot if you actually watch the fights it doesn't. Come on Ono you telling me that watching guys like Bradley, Marquez, Khan, Alexander, Maidana, Morales, Guerrero etc you are unable to see a qualitive difference compared to when the top guys outside of Hatton were Lazcano, Soliman Mbay, Witter, Urango, Gavin Rees, Vivian Harris and Carlos Moussa?? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by onoThat just tells me there is a lot of evenly matched fighters. When i said the division isn't that strong, i was comparing it to 5 years ago when it really was the strongest in Boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainStyles do make fights but it is not just the Maidana vs Morales fight that made me believe 140 is not as good as it seem. Alexander at 23 years old folded against maybe the only really good fighter, Bradley. Khan hanged on for dear life against a very limited Maidana. The same Maidana who almost lost to a blown up featherweight who came out of retirement. Who else at 140 is relevant? Judah, JMM, Rios? Now that is just reaching for some kind of answer, two of those guys dont fight at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Explain why you think 140 is one of the best divisions right now.
You just have to watch the fights to see that many of the most exciting, explosive and skillful fighters are currently in the 140 lb division.
Come on rains, Bradley, Khan, Marquez, Rios, Guerrero, Maidana, Judah, Morales, Katsidis, Juan Diaz. That's a ton of talent in one weight class.
These guys have produced some of the best fights of the last couple years, Khan Maidana, Morales Maidana, Marquez Katsidis, Marquez Diaz 1 & 2, Rios Acosta, Guerrero Katsidis, Maidana Ortiz.
Some of these fights were at 135 but this pool of fighters can all fight each other, and that makes this one of the main attractions for setting up great fights.
Try and think of another weight class where you can think up as many great matchups.
I would say outside of the super middleweight divisionand maybe the lower weights with Donaire, 140 is where the action is right now.
Special compared to what? You have two first ballot hall of famers, an undefeated two time world champ on the fringe of p4p, perhaps already p4p, arguably the fastest boxer in the sport, and many of the most exciting boxers in the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBThere's alot of solid guys, but there nothing special. But that doesn't matter i just think everyone expect's too much, there's still alot of interesting match ups to be made.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboNot if you actually watch the fights it doesn't. Come on Ono you telling me that watching guys like Bradley, Marquez, Khan, Alexander, Maidana, Morales, Guerrero etc you are unable to see a qualitive difference compared to when the top guys outside of Hatton were Lazcano, Soliman Mbay, Witter, Urango, Gavin Rees, Vivian Harris and Carlos Moussa?? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by onoThat just tells me there is a lot of evenly matched fighters. When i said the division isn't that strong, i was comparing it to 5 years ago when it really was the strongest in Boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius RainStyles do make fights but it is not just the Maidana vs Morales fight that made me believe 140 is not as good as it seem. Alexander at 23 years old folded against maybe the only really good fighter, Bradley. Khan hanged on for dear life against a very limited Maidana. The same Maidana who almost lost to a blown up featherweight who came out of retirement. Who else at 140 is relevant? Judah, JMM, Rios? Now that is just reaching for some kind of answer, two of those guys dont fight at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Explain why you think 140 is one of the best divisions right now.
You just have to watch the fights to see that many of the most exciting, explosive and skillful fighters are currently in the 140 lb division.
Come on rains, Bradley, Khan, Marquez, Rios, Guerrero, Maidana, Judah, Morales, Katsidis, Juan Diaz. That's a ton of talent in one weight class.
These guys have produced some of the best fights of the last couple years, Khan Maidana, Morales Maidana, Marquez Katsidis, Marquez Diaz 1 & 2, Rios Acosta, Guerrero Katsidis, Maidana Ortiz.
Some of these fights were at 135 but this pool of fighters can all fight each other, and that makes this one of the main attractions for setting up great fights.
Try and think of another weight class where you can think up as many great matchups.
I would say outside of the super middleweight divisionand maybe the lower weights with Donaire, 140 is where the action is right now.
Last year the fight of the year was in this weight class, this year currently the leading contender for fight of the year is in this weight class.
What are you expecting to be expecting too much exactly?
What divisions are hotter than this one right now? Not many at all.
Seeing HBO's list of "Notable Fighters" in the division right now...... I'd have to totally agree with the title of this thread.