Overrating the Past......? No way!

People in general today may be bigger and taller (thanks to GMO foods, hybrids, hormones in the meat and produce, etc.) but they sure as hell aint STRONGER than they were 60 years ago. I don't think it takes a genius on this one, mates.

Toughness? Lemm give ya an example. My great grandma, in 1953, fell down a flight of stairs and broke her leg so bad the bone was sticking out, visibly. At that time she was 83 years old, and had probably just made a tray of lasagne, and roasted some eels.

She was all alone that day, and somehow pushed the bone back into her leg, crawled up the basement stairs (of which there were 16), and called an ambulance. Now that's toughness.

These days, people are suing for mental/emotional damage if they happen to see something that psychologically disturbed them, or if they even see a speck of blood somewhere on TV or wherever, all the Soccer Mommy's Boys go whining to the principal that they couldn't sleep that night due to "terrifying" memories.

These days Solis throws a left hook and fucks up his knee and is hospitalized for 2 weeks. A young, big, huge, in-his-prime strapping man. These days Wladimir K gets too much "vaseline" (yeah, I bet) before the Brewster fight, and is crawling and panting like a little bitch by the 5th round. Etc...

Boxers used to lose several teeth in a fight and keep fghting, refs didnt stop the fights, boxers fought 15, 20, 25 rounds in the old days, bare-frikkin knuckled, etc.. Marciano's nose was hanging off in the Charles rematch. Imagine nowadays what Frank Cappuccino or Joe Cortez would do in that situation, let alone what the fighter or his cornermen would do, let alone what Flip Homansky or any other ring doctor would do.

And you're telling me that Rocky Marciano--who used to do sprints uphill and downhill, forwards and backwards, hit a 300 pound heavybag for hours, etc....---WOULD NOT UTTERLY WIPE UP in his toughness every single modern-day 185 pound fighter???

Yeah, Holyfield's only chance would be to use his head-butting crap, and hope for a hematoma like Hasim Rahman got.

but since Rocco Frances Marcheggiano did not eat Burger King Whoppers, french fries, and coca-cola, a similar headbutt would not cause such a hematoma.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

People in general today may be bigger and taller (thanks to GMO foods, hybrids, hormones in the meat and produce, etc.) but they sure as hell aint STRONGER than they were 60 years ago. I don't think it takes a genius on this one, mates.

Toughness? Lemm give ya an example. My great grandma, in 1953, fell down a flight of stairs and broke her leg so bad the bone was sticking out, visibly. At that time she was 83 years old, and had probably just made a tray of lasagne, and roasted some eels.

She was all alone that day, and somehow pushed the bone back into her leg, crawled up the basement stairs (of which there were 16), and called an ambulance. Now that's toughness.

These days, people are suing for mental/emotional damage if they happen to see something that psychologically disturbed them, or if they even see a speck of blood somewhere on TV or wherever, all the Soccer Mommy's Boys go whining to the principal that they couldn't sleep that night due to "terrifying" memories.

These days Solis throws a left hook and fucks up his knee and is hospitalized for 2 weeks. A young, big, huge, in-his-prime strapping man. These days Wladimir K gets too much "vaseline" (yeah, I bet) before the Brewster fight, and is crawling and panting like a little bitch by the 5th round. Etc...

Boxers used to lose several teeth in a fight and keep fghting, refs didnt stop the fights, boxers fought 15, 20, 25 rounds in the old days, bare-frikkin knuckled, etc.. Marciano's nose was hanging off in the Charles rematch. Imagine nowadays what Frank Cappuccino or Joe Cortez would do in that situation, let alone what the fighter or his cornermen would do, let alone what Flip Homansky or any other ring doctor would do.

And you're telling me that Rocky Marciano--who used to do sprints uphill and downhill, forwards and backwards, hit a 300 pound heavybag for hours, etc....---WOULD NOT UTTERLY WIPE UP in his toughness every single modern-day 185 pound fighter???

Yeah, Holyfield's only chance would be to use his head-butting crap, and hope for a hematoma like Hasim Rahman got.

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Rocky Marciano was far from unbeatable, fighters in there 40's gave him all he could handle. I understand your a fan but you seem a bit obsessed, and i don't understand why you made a new thread again on Rocky Marciano. You should of just replied on the other thread you made.

Its not only Rocky Marciano who trains hard, don't you think Evander Holyfield trained just as hard ? he went 15 rounds with Dwight Muhammad Qawi at an unreal pace. He also lost 7 pounds of body fluids, because he'd put in so much effort.

And to be honest there's strong reports that Rocky Marciano, retired to avoid fighters like Floyd Patterson and ETC, who were young upcoming Heavyweight's.

We know Rocky Marciano was tough and ETC, but he never met a great young fighter with good boxing skills like Holyfield, Jones, ETC. And he never met anyone who could hit as hard as someone like Bob Foster.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

People in general today may be bigger and taller (thanks to GMO foods, hybrids, hormones in the meat and produce, etc.) but they sure as hell aint STRONGER than they were 60 years ago. I don't think it takes a genius on this one, mates.

Toughness? Lemm give ya an example. My great grandma, in 1953, fell down a flight of stairs and broke her leg so bad the bone was sticking out, visibly. At that time she was 83 years old, and had probably just made a tray of lasagne, and roasted some eels.

She was all alone that day, and somehow pushed the bone back into her leg, crawled up the basement stairs (of which there were 16), and called an ambulance. Now that's toughness.

These days, people are suing for mental/emotional damage if they happen to see something that psychologically disturbed them, or if they even see a speck of blood somewhere on TV or wherever, all the Soccer Mommy's Boys go whining to the principal that they couldn't sleep that night due to "terrifying" memories.

These days Solis throws a left hook and fucks up his knee and is hospitalized for 2 weeks. A young, big, huge, in-his-prime strapping man. These days Wladimir K gets too much "vaseline" (yeah, I bet) before the Brewster fight, and is crawling and panting like a little bitch by the 5th round. Etc...

Boxers used to lose several teeth in a fight and keep fghting, refs didnt stop the fights, boxers fought 15, 20, 25 rounds in the old days, bare-frikkin knuckled, etc.. Marciano's nose was hanging off in the Charles rematch. Imagine nowadays what Frank Cappuccino or Joe Cortez would do in that situation, let alone what the fighter or his cornermen would do, let alone what Flip Homansky or any other ring doctor would do.

And you're telling me that Rocky Marciano--who used to do sprints uphill and downhill, forwards and backwards, hit a 300 pound heavybag for hours, etc....---WOULD NOT UTTERLY WIPE UP in his toughness every single modern-day 185 pound fighter???

Yeah, Holyfield's only chance would be to use his head-butting crap, and hope for a hematoma like Hasim Rahman got.

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Rocky Marciano was far from unbeatable, fighters in there 40's gave him all he could handle. I understand your a fan but you seem a bit obsessed, and i don't understand why you made a new thread again on Rocky Marciano. You should of just replied on the other thread you made.

Its not only Rocky Marciano who trains hard, don't you think Evander Holyfield trained just as hard ? he went 15 rounds with Dwight Muhammad Qawi at an unreal pace. He also lost 7 pounds of body fluids, because he'd put in so much effort.

And to be honest there's strong reports that Rocky Marciano, retired to avoid fighters like Floyd Patterson and ETC, who were young upcoming Heavyweight's.

We know Rocky Marciano was tough and ETC, but he never met a great young fighter with good boxing skills like Holyfield, Jones, ETC. And he never met anyone who could hit as hard as someone like Bob Foster.

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:appl:

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Originally Posted by ICB

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We know Rocky Marciano was tough and ETC, but he never met a great young fighter with good boxing skills like Holyfield, Jones, ETC. And he never met anyone who could hit as hard as someone like Bob Foster.

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I dunno Ice ....... Roland LaStarza could box and Joe Louis (even an old Joe Louis) would hit a lot harded that Bob Foster ever could.

Rocky was great no doubt. Joe Louis too. I too believe they would cause anyone today a whole lot of shit! But why the hatred towards Evander? He was truly great also and a credit to the sport if you ask me. Yes he may have used his head a little excessively at times but a lot of fighters use rough house tactics. Also Evanders chin IMO was one of the greatest the sport has ever seen and certainly a match for Rockys. Rocky never got hit hard off anyone with Tyson-esque power. Louis was the biggest puncher he fought but he was way past it then. When Evander fought Tyson he took all Tyson could give and broke his heart.

I think Evander vs Marciano would be a great matchup prime for prime and a very hard one to call but Evander had a lot of the qualities that made Rocky great too. He didn't quite have the one punch KO power of Rocky but he had better technical boxing skill.

I am a huge fan of both men and it's a shame there are not more like either man in the sport but on their very best nights I'd go for an Evander decision win over Rocky!

185lb Holyfield v Rocky, i would say Rocky in a war.

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Originally Posted by X

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Originally Posted by ICB

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We know Rocky Marciano was tough and ETC, but he never met a great young fighter with good boxing skills like Holyfield, Jones, ETC. And he never met anyone who could hit as hard as someone like Bob Foster.

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I dunno Ice ....... Roland LaStarza could box and Joe Louis (even an old Joe Louis) would hit a lot harded that Bob Foster ever could.

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Yea but this is same Joe Louis who was totally outpointed by Ezzard Charles, and was knocked down 3 times in 2 fights vs Jersey Joe Walcott. With the 1st fight being a total robbery, and the 2nd fight was a come from behind KO with Joe Louis losing by a big margin.

Im not taking anything from Rocky Marciano, its not his fault his era was weak. But he wasn't no unbeatable force either, like this guy is making out.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by X

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Originally Posted by ICB

[
We know Rocky Marciano was tough and ETC, but he never met a great young fighter with good boxing skills like Holyfield, Jones, ETC. And he never met anyone who could hit as hard as someone like Bob Foster.

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I dunno Ice ....... Roland LaStarza could box and Joe Louis (even an old Joe Louis) would hit a lot harded that Bob Foster ever could.

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Yea but this is same Joe Louis who was totally outpointed by Ezzard Charles, and was knocked down 3 times in 2 fights vs Jersey Joe Walcott. With the 1st fight being a total robbery, and the 2nd fight was a come from behind KO with Joe Louis losing by a big margin.

Im not taking anything from Rocky Marciano, its not his fault his era was weak. But he wasn't no unbeatable force either, like this guy is making out.

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You know, Ezzard Charles was/is one of the top fighters of all time. Check his record: a definite top 5 at middle and light heavy, then he won the hw title and defended it 8 times. Being outpointed by a guy that smart and that skilled is far from meaning 'you suck.'
Joe Walcott, in my opinion, was not a great fighter. But he was extremely cute and clever in the ring. He caught an aging Louis with some sneak right hands and knocked him down; not huge knockdowns, but he dropped him. Lonnie Smith, 140lbs, in the 80s, used some of those same moves to get a title belt. Walcott, to get back to it, was smart and slick, yet you make it sound like being behind on the cards to him is an insult.
Marciano had definite flaws, the most notable being that he started the game late in life. He did have, however, a great trainer that brought him along well and turned him into a force to be reckoned with. And the thing is, he was, apparently, an unbeatable force because nobody ever beat him. He overwhelmed guys that were smarter than him, and he was smarter than he was given credit for being.
I know I'm getting a rep here for being the senile crank that always sticks up for the old-timers...but let me say this. Modern boxing and modern boxing fans discount the value of intelligence and skill in the ring and over-value physicality. That is why guys like Moore fight until 50, competitively, and other guys of more recent vintage are "shot" at a relatively young age.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by X

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Originally Posted by ICB

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We know Rocky Marciano was tough and ETC, but he never met a great young fighter with good boxing skills like Holyfield, Jones, ETC. And he never met anyone who could hit as hard as someone like Bob Foster.

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I dunno Ice ....... Roland LaStarza could box and Joe Louis (even an old Joe Louis) would hit a lot harded that Bob Foster ever could.

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Yea but this is same Joe Louis who was totally outpointed by Ezzard Charles, and was knocked down 3 times in 2 fights vs Jersey Joe Walcott. With the 1st fight being a total robbery, and the 2nd fight was a come from behind KO with Joe Louis losing by a big margin.

Im not taking anything from Rocky Marciano, its not his fault his era was weak. But he wasn't no unbeatable force either, like this guy is making out.

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You know, Ezzard Charles was/is one of the top fighters of all time. Check his record: a definite top 5 at middle and light heavy, then he won the hw title and defended it 8 times. Being outpointed by a guy that smart and that skilled is far from meaning 'you suck.'
Joe Walcott, in my opinion, was not a great fighter. But he was extremely cute and clever in the ring. He caught an aging Louis with some sneak right hands and knocked him down; not huge knockdowns, but he dropped him. Lonnie Smith, 140lbs, in the 80s, used some of those same moves to get a title belt. Walcott, to get back to it, was smart and slick, yet you make it sound like being behind on the cards to him is an insult.
Marciano had definite flaws, the most notable being that he started the game late in life. He did have, however, a great trainer that brought him along well and turned him into a force to be reckoned with. And the thing is, he was, apparently, an unbeatable force because nobody ever beat him. He overwhelmed guys that were smarter than him, and he was smarter than he was given credit for being.
I know I'm getting a rep here for being the senile crank that always sticks up for the old-timers...but let me say this. Modern boxing and modern boxing fans discount the value of intelligence and skill in the ring and over-value physicality. That is why guys like Moore fight until 50, competitively, and other guys of more recent vintage are "shot" at a relatively young age.

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Im not saying anything like that, all im saying is that Joe Louis was showing major signs of slowing down. And those fights proved it, and by the time he fought Rocky Marciano he was completely washed up.

Ezzard Charles was a great fighter, but he was better at Light Heavyweight. Where he beat Moore, Burley, Maxim, multiple times.

And again when Ezzard Charles fought Rocky Marciano he was on the downslide, and went on to lose 13 fights after the Rocky Marciano fights.

The very fact that he went the distance with Rocky Marciano, and gave him such a hard fight when he was past his best. Shows how great he is, and prime for prime at catchweight he would of won IMO.

Modern boxers will likely be better conditioned than old timers, plus (since advances in nutrition and also holding the weigh in 24 hours before the fight) they are all much bigger than their counterparts when they actually get in the ring ....... today's middleweights are definitely not middleweights when they get in the ring, which sort of defeats the object for me ........ but the old timers had better technique and experience because they fought so much more often. A world champion should not be a flawed fighter, or someone we don;t know how good they are, but modern fighters build a carefully protected record and can win one of a meaningless proliferation of 'world' titles.

The old fighters were generally tougher than modern fighters as the fights were longer, could be dirtier and the refs hardly ever stopped them. There are always a few throwbacks who are teak tough even nowadays, but I think the 'average' has dropped.

You gotta look at facts. Is there any sport you can think of where the guys from the fifties, sixties and seventies are the best ever? (apart from Pele :-\)

So, it would be odd to expect that boxing is the exception, especially when boxing is probably the sport where advances in all things to do with physicality are most utilized.

Having said that, I still think SRR is the GOAT and Wille Pepp isn't far behind :-\ So maybe I'm talking shite ;D

Of course nobody with "Tyson-esque" power ever fought Marciano---its because only Marciano had Tyson-esque power back then. And nobody could beat him. And nobody WOULD beat him, unless that person outweighted The Rock of Rocks by a minimum of 30 pounds and outreached him even worse than he was already outreached, and towered over him even more toweringly than he was already towered over.

Rocco was the shidt, and that's it folks. And dont go tryin to put him in there with Lennox Lewis-sized fighters. Would we ever ask a Sugar Ray Leonard to fight a 200 pound Michael Spinks? Because thats about the size difference, and clearly isnt a fair fight.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Of course nobody with "Tyson-esque" power ever fought Marciano---its because only Marciano had Tyson-esque power back then. And nobody could beat him. And nobody WOULD beat him, unless that person outweighted The Rock of Rocks by a minimum of 30 pounds and outreached him even worse than he was already outreached, and towered over him even more toweringly than he was already towered over.

Rocco was the shidt, and that's it folks. And dont go tryin to put him in there with Lennox Lewis-sized fighters. Would we ever ask a Sugar Ray Leonard to fight a 200 pound Michael Spinks? Because thats about the size difference, and clearly isnt a fair fight.

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I want to ask you a question because your massive Rocky Marciano fan, is it true he lost a professional fight under the name Rocky Mack ? i know he was out of shape then, and wasn't really training. But i've heard this rumour alot and want to know if it's true or not.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Of course nobody with "Tyson-esque" power ever fought Marciano---its because only Marciano had Tyson-esque power back then. And nobody could beat him. And nobody WOULD beat him, unless that person outweighted The Rock of Rocks by a minimum of 30 pounds and outreached him even worse than he was already outreached, and towered over him even more toweringly than he was already towered over.

Rocco was the shidt, and that's it folks. And dont go tryin to put him in there with Lennox Lewis-sized fighters. Would we ever ask a Sugar Ray Leonard to fight a 200 pound Michael Spinks? Because thats about the size difference, and clearly isnt a fair fight.

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I want to ask you a question because your massive Rocky Marciano fan, is it true he lost a professional fight under the name Rocky Mack ? i know he was out of shape then, and wasn't really training. But i've heard this rumour alot and want to know if it's true or not.

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I looked into this years ago after Britkid brought up some claims about Marciano losing an early pro fight. I'm not sure if anybody can really prove whether he lost as a pro or not, but I don't think he did. He went back and forward between pro and amatuer fights and all his losses were bouts sanctioned as 'Amateur' The fight where called himself Rocky Mack, that people claim he lost (not sure if called himself that more than once) he actually won. Can't remember is that was a pro fight or not.

...in fact I am now going to go and look into it :D

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Originally Posted by BIG H

You gotta look at facts. Is there any sport you can think of where the guys from the fifties, sixties and seventies are the best ever? (apart from Pele :-\)

So, it would be odd to expect that boxing is the exception, especially when boxing is probably the sport where advances in all things to do with physicality are most utilized.

Having said that, I still think SRR is the GOAT and Wille Pepp isn't far behind :-\ So maybe I'm talking shite ;D

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Actually it isn't odd and boxing IS the exception. Why? (in no order)
1. Weaker raw material. 50ish years ago good athletes really only had two ways to make big money in sports. Baseball and boxing. Now athletes can make money in literally dozens of sports they couldn't back then.
2. Half as many fighters. The sport is just a fraction of the size it once was. Most other sports are larger in terms of participants.
3. Fighters fight half as often. Humans get better the more they do something. Doing something less frequently necessarily means less expertise. Other sports are having longer and longer seasons and more and more practices, hence better performance.
4. Declining resources. Boxing gyms are a dying commodity, 90% are gone.
5. Boxing doesn't participate in the size explosion (except at heavy). Basketball is better because point guards are now 6'4 rather than 6' tall. Swimmers are much larger than they used to be, so are sprinters, football players, baseball players etc. But boxing is weight restricted. You simply cannot take a guy fit enough to fight 15 rounds at a rapid pace at 147 and add muscle and still have him be 147. The body simply doesn't work that way. If it did? We'd have a pile of 6'2 welters walking around. But we don't.

There is more, but you get the idea.

As far as I am concerned this is about toughness as opposed to those having access to the best trainers and nutrition etc. Now my point and there are those people that do not understand it but I will try to be brief and simple. Years ago there were boxing gyms all over the place and in order to be tough and be a man your old man dropped you off one rainy afternoon or you went there with your pennies and paid your dues. Desire brought you there and habit kept you there. You felt good and stayed until the draft board or college got you and still some guys managed to keep training and fighting. It was pure heart and muscle. Marciano was only one of thousands but we live in a society controlled by bleeding hearts that did all they could to abolish the gentlemanly art of self defense and they were too soft and delicate to try and better themselves physically in a real man's world and in some alleged fighters this bitching and moaning has appeared while yuppie executives did away with Tuesday night fights, the highest rating show for years even at the cancellation shows us why some people compare then and now and the only thing I want from then is the dedication and thank God for new advancements that may help the fighters with that old time determination survive in modern ring. Give a cool click to the author for effort.

The only weight class that is effected by the time is Heavyweight because of the no limit weight.

Rocky lost a fight BEFORE he was even amateur, in Brockton, Mass to a black guy. It was like some local boxing club/gym. Marciano had thrown all his punches--about 250 they say--in the 1st 3 rounds and was totally punched-out. So knowing he would get knocked out, he kneed the poor guy in the balls, and ran out of the ring into the street. At that time he may have been 23 years old. I think he quit boxing for a year or 2 after that, and tried out for the Chicago Cubs. So that's a DQ. But I dont think that counts :)

Anyway, like I said before, some people come into this world and by some hand of grace nobody can beat them. Marciano was one of those people. How can we explain it? To the poster who was "confused" :rolleyes: why I started another Marciano post----some things need no explanation. This topic will never be totally discussed, there's too much mystery and fascination about it.

Balding, 2 left feet, uncoordinated, SHORTEST REACH IN HEAVYWEIGHT HISTORY, slow, DIDN'T STRAT BOXING UNTIL AGE 24, etc.... How did this guy do it? How?

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Anyway, like I said before, some people come into this world and by some hand of grace nobody can beat them. Marciano was one of those people. How can we explain it? To the poster who was "confused" :rolleyes: why I started another Marciano post----some things need no explanation. This topic will never be totally discussed, there's too much mystery and fascination about it.

Balding, 2 left feet, uncoordinated, SHORTEST REACH IN HEAVYWEIGHT HISTORY, slow, DIDN'T STRAT BOXING UNTIL AGE 24, etc.... How did this guy do it? How?

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Well one way is he was as fit as any man who ever stepped into the ring. Another is he wasn't bereft of athletic talent. He was FREAKISHLY strong for a man his size and I think the uncoordinated thing is overplayed. he was too good a baseball player for that to be true. Maybe a better way of saying it is he wasn't graceful.

This kind of argument is foolish IMO. You'd have to be crazy to believe that, on average, athletes today are not stronger than the athletes of yesteryears.

This "people were tougher back then" crap always irks me too. There were tough guys and sissies back then, just like there are tough guys and sissies now. Not trying to sound like a prick, but these are the kinds of ignorant blanket statements that you make when you're a kid.

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Anyway, like I said before, some people come into this world and by some hand of grace nobody can beat them. Marciano was one of those people. How can we explain it? To the poster who was "confused" :rolleyes: why I started another Marciano post----some things need no explanation. This topic will never be totally discussed, there's too much mystery and fascination about it.

Balding, 2 left feet, uncoordinated, SHORTEST REACH IN HEAVYWEIGHT HISTORY, slow, DIDN'T STRAT BOXING UNTIL AGE 24, etc.... How did this guy do it? How?

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Well one way is he was as fit as any man who ever stepped into the ring. Another is he wasn't bereft of athletic talent. He was FREAKISHLY strong for a man his size and I think the uncoordinated thing is overplayed. he was too good a baseball player for that to be true. Maybe a better way of saying it is he wasn't graceful.

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Baseball player?! That fucking explains it then.. I mean the way he throws some of his punches, he pitches them at you.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

This kind of argument is foolish IMO. You'd have to be crazy to believe that, on average, athletes today are not stronger than the athletes of yesteryears.
This "people were tougher back then" crap always irks me too. There were tough guys and sissies back then, just like there are tough guys and sissies now. Not trying to sound like a prick, but these are the kinds of ignorant blanket statements that you make when you're a kid.

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And you'd have to be crazy to think boxing gets the same quality athlete it got 50+ years ago. And since one can't make the skull or brain stronger? If figghters are stronger? How come there aren't more deaths today? I mean there oughtta be dead fighters all over the place, right?

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Anyway, like I said before, some people come into this world and by some hand of grace nobody can beat them. Marciano was one of those people. How can we explain it? To the poster who was "confused" :rolleyes: why I started another Marciano post----some things need no explanation. This topic will never be totally discussed, there's too much mystery and fascination about it.

Balding, 2 left feet, uncoordinated, SHORTEST REACH IN HEAVYWEIGHT HISTORY, slow, DIDN'T STRAT BOXING UNTIL AGE 24, etc.... How did this guy do it? How?

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Well one way is he was as fit as any man who ever stepped into the ring. Another is he wasn't bereft of athletic talent. He was FREAKISHLY strong for a man his size and I think the uncoordinated thing is overplayed. he was too good a baseball player for that to be true. Maybe a better way of saying it is he wasn't graceful.

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Baseball player?! That fucking explains it then.. I mean the way he throws some of his punches, he pitches them at you.

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LOL, yup. He was a pretty good catcher.

If that argument irks you, then it proves my point. People 50 years ago wouldnt be irked by that argument. But since you aren't as strong as those people, it irks you. :)

I will say that depending on the match up and the fighter I tend to favor the old school fighter over todays fighters.

Tiger, Monzon beat any of todays Middleweights.
Griffith, Armstrong & Napoles beat any of todays Welterweights.

For me it's because Griffith fought the best available sure he lost some, but he also won some. He fought 2, 3 times a month. He challenged and beat HoF'ers.

Todays fighters with the exception of a handful just don't do that.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

If that argument irks you, then it proves my point. People 50 years ago wouldnt be irked by that argument. But since you aren't as strong as those people, it irks you. :)

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LOL good point ;)

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

And you'd have to be crazy to think boxing gets the same quality athlete it got 50+ years ago. And since one can't make the skull or brain stronger? If figghters are stronger? How come there aren't more deaths today? I mean there oughtta be dead fighters all over the place, right?

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1) Rules and sanctions have changed (less rounds, quicker stoppages, ect ect) over the last 50+ years to make it "relatively" safer. That, coupled with the fact that boxers are having much less fights (thus, less brain injury) than fighters of yesteryears. I reckon that would explain the drop in deaths.

2) Go back and look at the deaths in boxing. How many of them have been brutal early KO's? I can't think of one. Deaths/serious brain injuries have occured when fighters have taken a multitude of blows over a longer fight. Over the past several years, its been determined that its not only the concussion blows that take its toll on the brain, but also the subconcussive ones. One is much less likely to die from a brutal early KO than from a prolonged beating that lasts into the later rounds.

So if fighters today are much stronger (and thus scoring more early KOs), then it stands to reason that there would actually be LESS deaths than if they didn't punch as hard and had to punish their opponent into the the later rounds to get a KO.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

And you'd have to be crazy to think boxing gets the same quality athlete it got 50+ years ago. And since one can't make the skull or brain stronger? If figghters are stronger? How come there aren't more deaths today? I mean there oughtta be dead fighters all over the place, right?

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1) Rules and sanctions have changed (less rounds, quicker stoppages, ect ect) over the last 50+ years to make it "relatively" safer. That, coupled with the fact that boxers are having much less fights (thus, less brain injury) than fighters of yesteryears. I reckon that would explain the drop in deaths.

2) Go back and look at the deaths in boxing. How many of them have been brutal early KO's? I can't think of one. Deaths/serious brain injuries have occured when fighters have taken a multitude of blows over a longer fight. Over the past several years, its been determined that its not only the concussion blows that take its toll on the brain, but also the subconcussive ones. One is much less likely to die from a brutal early KO than from a prolonged beating that lasts into the later rounds.

So if fighters today are much stronger (and thus scoring more early KOs), then it stands to reason that there would actually be LESS deaths than if they didn't punch as hard and had to punish their opponent into the the later rounds to get a KO.

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MANY deaths in the ring are early KO's. Lito Sisnorio, round 4, Hen drik Bira, round three, Muhammad Basule, round 3, David Rickman, round four, Bones Francisius round three, Amang Gimay Round one, Bradley Rone, round two, Hugo Guzman, round two, Cresencio Mercado, Round one, Simpiwe Galade, round one, Coleman Cedar, round four, John Namitula, round four, Mazawa Mathole, round three. Now that is a partial list from 2000-2007 only.

Since you entire argument rests on an assumption that isnt' valid...