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The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Is it me or have American boxers lost more than they've won in recent times? To name a few examples:
Danny Jacobs lost to Dimitry Pirog
Steve Cunningham lost to Tomaz Adamek
Paul Williams lost to Sergio Martinez
Kelly Pavlik lost to Sergio Martinez
Jermain Taylor lost to Arthur Abraham and Carl Froch
James Kirkland lost to Nobuhiro Ishida
Shane Mosley lost to Manny Pacquiao
Eddie Chambers lost to Wladimir Klitschko
Cris Arreola lost to Vitali Klitschko
Chad Dawson to Jean Pascal
Roy Jones lost to everyone.
There are only two Americans on the top ten p4p lis. There's only one American heavyweight in the top ten. There's only one American cruiserweight in the top ten. There's only three American light heavyweights in the top ten. There's only one American super middleweight in the top ten. There is NO American middleweight in the top ten. Junior middleweight is the only division dominated by Americans. There's only two Americans in the top ten at welterweight. And it goes on.
I understand that there are probably a dozen counter examples to the ones above, but still, boxing is a sport, where, correct me if I'm wrong, but Americans have traditionally done very well. It seems that now most of the top competition is coming from outside of the US. Am I wrong? If not, what do you think is the reason behind this recent demise in American boxing. Lack of gyms? Lack of good coaches? Rest of the world has caught up?
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining
baseball, american football
and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball
and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling
you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining
baseball, american football
and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball
and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling
you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries
Yeah we should probably get into Cricket, cause that's a quick one. Or maybe higher contact like darts. And of course no other country has wrestling right? :rolleyes:
Anyway, American athletes have little incentive to get into boxing from a financial standpoint. The odds of them ending up getting Mayweather / De La Hoya / Tyson level paydays are slimmer than the lottery. If someone is athletic and has a chance to turn pro, they are much more likely to do it in a team sport here like baseball, american football or basketball where they can earn very good money sitting on the bench, where as with boxing unless they make special connections with corrupt people very early, they will be fighting for a 12-pack of beer. Soccer is different here as well, the leading scorer for MLS last season only made 48K for the year.
To rantcatrat Cunningham has worked his way back up. But I agree that American boxing dominance is over, the rest of the world has caught up and surpassed us, largely due to a lack of interest here.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Don't be dissing the Darts, Sheep. Darts pisses all over boxing. Fact.
I think killersheep is probably about right. The type of environment that attracts fighters is no longer as attractive or relevant to modern-day America. In other words - There are easier/safer ways to earn big money.
Also boxing is far more global now than it used to be (for all fans worldwide). Just 5-6 years ago on this site it was common for American fans to state "champions" from outside the USA hadn't "proved" themselves, or had padded records and the like. I see less and less of this attitude now. So maybe you just think there has been a drastic decline?
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't be dissing the Darts, Sheep. Darts pisses all over boxing. Fact.
I think killersheep is probably about right. The type of environment that attracts fighters is no longer as attractive or relevant to modern-day America. In other words - There are easier/safer ways to earn big money.
Also boxing is far more global now than it used to be (for all fans worldwide). Just 5-6 years ago on this site it was common for American fans to state "champions" from outside the USA hadn't "proved" themselves, or had padded records and the like. I see less and less of this attitude now. So maybe you just think there has been a drastic decline?
Didn't diss darts, until they start throwing them at each other it's hardly a contact sport though no?
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I bleed stars and stripes but ya know, I think it's a great thing. Frankly long overdue. Boxing is a true international sport and for the longest time we have seemed to live in a cacoon with little exposure to fighters overseas. You used to literally have to hunt fighters from Asia down, all the while American fans missed some quality gems. Higher visability, easier viewing possibility mean more oppurtunities and wider fan base. I think we- Networks are wayyyy to stuck on fast tracking guys and polishing as unfinished product for the flavor of the month, manufacturing stars rather than letting them rise. I've always thought a early lose is where the real learning and defining begins. It strips a guy to the bones of development. Oh and we still have K-9 Bundrage man, not all is lost ;D
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Most of my favorite fighters these days are from other countries, and to be honest there just aren't that many American fighters I like well enough to be a fan of.
I think it's good for boxing that World titles are really an International thing now. At one time, pro boxing was almost like the World series in baseball, I mean why call it the "World" series if all the teams playing are American. :rolleyes:
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I am a huge fan of boxing. But it isn't just american dominance of boxing that's going away, the entire sport is in a state of decline as a whole right now. Stars not fighting eachother until they're way past their prime, corrupt sanctioning bodies etc...And as for American dominance, an earlier poster was right. Top notch athletes have many more, and safer, options over here. Why come up through golden gloves and fight your first 15 fights for chump change and hope the champ doesn't duck you, when you can sign an NFL or NBA contract, get a huge signing bonus up front, then see if your talent develops. Now to the declining fan base in boxing as a whole. I've already mentioned the big names avoiding eachother, but also the fact that I can't watch a superstar matchup in my living room without shelling out $60.00. It's very expensive to be a fan of this sport. I can watch an NFL or NBA game on my television anytime without having to special order it. MMA is catching on in a big way here in the U.S. I'm doing my best to resist but it's getting harder and harder.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Armenians have been doing quite well.
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#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
No, but that's about like saying the UK has the World's best Cricket players or Australia has the best Australian rules Football players.
The fact is the rest of the world caught up to the U.S. in boxing, America may develop some great new boxing talent in the future, but they will never dominate like they once did.
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That's different I mean on one hand people actually represent their country in World Cups on the other hand in Club competition there are sides that are better....the US has the best basketball and baseball clubs FACT....the players come from all over to play there.
I'd consider Barcelona to be World Champions of soccer just like I'd consider the Green Bay Packers to be World Champions of football.....who would beat them???
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I actually hope your right Lyle. I hope American boxing reaches great heights again.
I am first and foremost a boxing fan and when Americans are great boxing is great. Barring Floyd though right now I don't think I could call anyone from the U.S. great. Hopefully the Olympics next year will bring a few very good fighters through at least!
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I think there is no question that both American boxing and boxing around the world are on the decline.
In the US we have fewer fighters, fewer boxing shows, fewer gyms, fewer good teachers etc than we've had in at least 60 and probably more like 90 years. Why has this come to pass? Four big reasons (and a bunch of little ones).
1. Cultural-There is no other way to look at it, the US has become wussified. The entire culture is becoming feminized in terms of how boys are raised. Fighting is really frowned upon.
2. Economic-Fighters often come from places where people worry about their next meal. That stopped happening here a generation ago.
3. Competition-Up until 50 years ago talented athletes had two ways to make big money. Boxing and baseball. So those sports got the cream of the athletic crop. Now? one caqn make a good living playing soccer, football, baseball, golf, tennis, swimming, weightlifitng and on and on.
4. Corruption-The increase in the number of divisions and belts and therefore the ability of fighters to avoid other top fighters and still call themselves a "champion" has not been lost on fans.
Around the world, with the exception of the old Warsaw Pact Nations and Argentina? The sport is in similar decline. Argentina is about where it has been for 50 years, the Warsaw Pact Nations have come from nowhere to somewhere rapidly.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining
baseball, american football
and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball
and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling
you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries
Yeah we should probably get into Cricket, cause that's a quick one. Or maybe higher contact like darts. And of course no other country has wrestling right? :rolleyes:
you got an issue with cricket?
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't be dissing the Darts, Sheep. Darts pisses all over boxing. Fact.
I think killersheep is probably about right. The type of environment that attracts fighters is no longer as attractive or relevant to modern-day America. In other words - There are easier/safer ways to earn big money.
Also boxing is far more global now than it used to be (for all fans worldwide). Just 5-6 years ago on this site it was common for American fans to state "champions" from outside the USA hadn't "proved" themselves, or had padded records and the like. I see less and less of this attitude now. So maybe you just think there has been a drastic decline?
Didn't diss darts, until they start throwing them at each other it's hardly a contact sport though no?
darts is none contact yes but not for athletes and not something young people who might have got into boxing get into
its for people who like sitting in pubs drinking beer
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
I think there is no question that both American boxing and boxing around the world are on the decline.
In the US we have fewer fighters, fewer boxing shows, fewer gyms, fewer good teachers etc than we've had in at least 60 and probably more like 90 years. Why has this come to pass? Four big reasons (and a bunch of little ones).
1. Cultural-There is no other way to look at it, the US has become wussified. The entire culture is becoming feminized in terms of how boys are raised. Fighting is really frowned upon.
2. Economic-Fighters often come from places where people worry about their next meal. That stopped happening here a generation ago.
3. Competition-Up until 50 years ago talented athletes had two ways to make big money. Boxing and baseball. So those sports got the cream of the athletic crop. Now? one caqn make a good living playing soccer, football, baseball, golf, tennis, swimming, weightlifitng and on and on.
4. Corruption-The increase in the number of divisions and belts and therefore the ability of fighters to avoid other top fighters and still call themselves a "champion" has not been lost on fans.
Around the world, with the exception of the old Warsaw Pact Nations and Argentina? The sport is in similar decline. Argentina is about where it has been for 50 years, the Warsaw Pact Nations have come from nowhere to somewhere rapidly.
Same in the Uk. Of course it's not everywhere over here and tough areas will always exist. But in general blokes are definitely a lot more feminine, worrying how they look, getting their hair right, posing in bars. Too many people are worried about how they look in other peoples eyes more than they are worried about having a good time. Also health and safety rules everywhere it's ridiculous. Fighting is frowned upon not even just by the authorities but in society everywhere everyone is becoming soft.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Killer, I agree to an extent, but to be a professional baseball, football, hockey, or basketball player, at this point in time, you really have to be 6'0ish 180ish and above. There just aren't many smaller athletes in those sports. However, boxing gives great athletes aren't quite as tall a forum, yet, there aren't very many amazing boxers out there from the US at the lower weights either. I get it that there are easier ways to make money and maybe that's your point, but are there really other sports for shorter athletes?
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Killer, I agree to an extent, but to be a professional baseball, football, hockey, or basketball player, at this point in time, you really have to be 6'0ish 180ish and above. There just aren't many smaller athletes in those sports. However, boxing gives great athletes aren't quite as tall a forum, yet, there aren't very many amazing boxers out there from the US at the lower weights either. I get it that there are easier ways to make money and maybe that's your point, but are there really other sports for shorter athletes?
Yup. Guys who would be middles and welters now get college scholarships in basketball (point guards), gymnastics, track, swimming, baseball and tennis. By the time college is over? They are lost to us.
We lose hundreds of possibles every year.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
15rounder
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.
Now you're just being silly, soccer draws in far more money world wide than any other sport, it's not even close. And the NFL tried a Euro league, how did that pan out? 1-2 seasons maybe?
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Killer, I agree to an extent, but to be a professional baseball, football, hockey, or basketball player, at this point in time, you really have to be 6'0ish 180ish and above. There just aren't many smaller athletes in those sports. However, boxing gives great athletes aren't quite as tall a forum, yet, there aren't very many amazing boxers out there from the US at the lower weights either. I get it that there are easier ways to make money and maybe that's your point, but are there really other sports for shorter athletes?
Horse jockeys :D, Soccer players, mathletes.
Yes I understand, but is there really money for young American boxers in the lighter weight classes? Bradley and Alexander did okay in their outings although based on the turn out and viewership they sure won't be getting anything past their guaranteed extra pay day. Victor Ortiz maybe pulls in some cash. So I'd say there are a few at 140-147 that can make a living doing this as those divisions are stacked with stars, but lightweight and lower is a tough sell in the US especially as a main event. 160 and up the talent pool would clearly have Americans that are over 6' mark if they weren't getting into other sports. 154 I leave out, because by far and large it's a pass through division that noone stays at. So yeah the prospects of even the lower weight classes making money is bleak.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining
baseball, american football
and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball
and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling
you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries
Yeah we should probably get into Cricket, cause that's a quick one. Or maybe higher contact like darts. And of course no other country has wrestling right? :rolleyes:
you got an issue with cricket?
Yes it takes a very long time and is very unentertaining.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Cricket is the most boring sport on earth. Darts is the greatest (fat British drunk guys become millionaires). That's why don't be dissing it, sheepster ;)
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
15rounder
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.
Now you're just being silly, soccer draws in far more money world wide than any other sport, it's not even close. And the NFL tried a Euro league, how did that pan out? 1-2 seasons maybe?
The NFL is the no. 1 sports league in generating revenue. Not bad for a sport that only Americans watch.
9 Billion USD for the NFL. For a soccer league like the EPL it's only £2.5 billion, the most profitable of all the soccer leagues. You're right it's not even close.;)
And for people shitting on basketball and baseball. Those are probably the no. 2 and 3 sports in the world in being watched. Europe might not like those sports that doesn't mean Asia and Latin America doesn't.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
15rounder
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.
Now you're just being silly, soccer draws in far more money world wide than any other sport, it's not even close. And the NFL tried a Euro league, how did that pan out? 1-2 seasons maybe?
The NFL is the no. 1 sports league in generating revenue. Not bad for a sport that only Americans watch.
9 Billion USD for the NFL. For a soccer league like the EPL it's only £2.5 billion, the most profitable of all the soccer leagues. You're right it's not even close.;)
And for people shitting on basketball and baseball. Those are probably the no. 2 and 3 sports in the world in being watched. Europe might not like those sports that doesn't mean Asia and Latin America doesn't.
Now all the soccer leagues in the world vs. all the football leagues in the world. Further add in revenues from national team matches.
I do concede that Baseball is very popular in Asia and Latin America
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining
baseball, american football
and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball
and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling
you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries
wrestling a homosexual sport, Brock Lesnar a by product of that male soap opera is the scariest man alive. It maybe fake but we can't deny the athleticism behind it. I wonder how many times we can bench press, Brock's warm up of 225 lbs.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Historically speaking the great American boxers have come from the ethnic/immigrant groups at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. These communities have seen a large decline in the number of gyms available to them. The lack of gyms is a chicken or egg issue. Did the gyms decline due to a lack of interest in boxing or did the lack of interest in boxing happen due to the decline of gyms. Baseball has also had a decline in American minority participation due to the number of participants needed, equipment availability and lack of facilities. I'd be willing to make a hefty wager that just about every low-income housing area in the U.S. has some sort of basketball court hence inner city black kids simply need a ball and 2-10 guys to get a game going. This is pretty similar to my experience in third world countries where a group of barefoot children kick a makeshift ball around a dirt patch. As the quality of life has improved in the U.S. along with more athletic opportunities (regardless of the international interest in them) its not hard to see why someone would choose a sport that doesn't involve them being punched in the face. Barring another Tyson or SRL that grabs the collective U.S. interest and/or another influx of immigrants with a cultural history of boxing I think the current status of American boxing is here to stay.
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If the decline is due to people not wanting to be punched in the face to make money, shouldn't mma be in just of bad as shape?
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
15rounder
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.
Now you're just being silly, soccer draws in far more money world wide than any other sport, it's not even close. And the NFL tried a Euro league, how did that pan out? 1-2 seasons maybe?
The NFL is the no. 1 sports league in generating revenue. Not bad for a sport that only Americans watch.
9 Billion USD for the NFL. For a soccer league like the EPL it's only £2.5 billion, the most profitable of all the soccer leagues. You're right it's not even close.;)
And for people shitting on basketball and baseball. Those are probably the no. 2 and 3 sports in the world in being watched. Europe might not like those sports that doesn't mean Asia and Latin America doesn't.
Now all the soccer leagues in the world vs. all the football leagues in the world. Further add in revenues from national team matches.
I do concede that Baseball is very popular in Asia and Latin America
Even if American Football generates more money than football (the proper stuff) it is irrelevant to it's worldwide popularity. Football (soccer) is clearly the most popular sport on earth. Watched and played. I'm not even gonna look for stats because it's so blatantly obvious.
If Baseball and Basketball are the 2nd and 3rd most watched sports in the world I would be totally amazed. Maybe it has something to do with the size of nation watching it, however, that is very impressive for sports that seems soley American.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armin
If the decline is due to people not wanting to be punched in the face to make money, shouldn't mma be in just of bad as shape?
I think MMA's rise in popularity has a couple things working for it.
1. First and foremost it is on free TV more often and the UFC does a much better job marketing itself to the 18-35 male market than boxing. Personally I became more of a MMA fan b/c I felt my $50 paid for a better product. Obviously entertainment is subjective but a MMA card has at a minimum 5 fights, most of which are good relevant fights that the fans want to see.
2. While the UFC isn't the only MMA org it is far and away the predominant one. Fans for the most part get to see the fights they want to see in a timely fashion. The frustration with the alphabet orgs and dodgy promoters doesn't exist in MMA like it does in boxing. A federal boxing commission that only recognized one belt and one sanctioning body would go a long way to improving the American fan's opinion of the sport.
3. Boxers take years to hone their craft to be at a world class level. MMA has a technical side that is ever evolving but it puts much more of an emphasis on athleticism. A guy that was a good at wrestling, BJJ, Judo, Muy Thai, Kick boxing and is a great athelete can be competitive in the sport at this point as they evolve the other aspects of the sport. As the sport evolves more and more this may eventually not be true. My hometown's only boxing gym is largely unknown to most but there are several martial arts academies that cater to the MMA crowd.
4. Lastly there is a generational issue. Young people regardless of their likes/dislikes about boxing will veiw it as their parent's combat sport and MMA, which is for all intents and purposes 20 years old in the U.S., their combat sport. I work with lots of 18-35 yr old males and very few could name 10 professional boxers but most regularly watch MMA.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I'm american and I'm embarrassed by our fighters, minus a few!
I for one welcome great foreign fighters. they fight to win!!
matthyesse, kotelnik, maidana, pacman, donaire, froch, kessler, bute...all are great, and don't act like complete douchebag thugs like Judah, Gayweather, etc.
i just wish these guys would not get robbed by us Americans, like matthyesse, kotelnik & maidana did. it's BULLSHIT! and pisses me off, an American, bigtime!!
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
15rounder
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.
Now you're just being silly, soccer draws in far more money world wide than any other sport, it's not even close. And the NFL tried a Euro league, how did that pan out? 1-2 seasons maybe?
The NFL is the no. 1 sports league in generating revenue. Not bad for a sport that only Americans watch.
9 Billion USD for the NFL. For a soccer league like the EPL it's only £2.5 billion, the most profitable of all the soccer leagues. You're right it's not even close.;)
And for people shitting on basketball and baseball. Those are probably the no. 2 and 3 sports in the world in being watched. Europe might not like those sports that doesn't mean Asia and Latin America doesn't.
Now all the soccer leagues in the world vs. all the football leagues in the world. Further add in revenues from national team matches.
I do concede that Baseball is very popular in Asia and Latin America
Even if American Football generates more money than football (the proper stuff) it is irrelevant to it's worldwide popularity. Football (soccer) is clearly the most popular sport on earth. Watched and played. I'm not even gonna look for stats because it's so blatantly obvious.
If Baseball and Basketball are the 2nd and 3rd most watched sports in the world I would be totally amazed. Maybe it has something to do with the size of nation watching it, however, that is very impressive for sports that seems soley American.
You probably did not watch the last NBA draft but a hefty portion of the top 10 picks were international players suggesting an ever rising participation in the sport.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VictorCharlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
15rounder
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
Well since America is the center of the sports world, I'd say they're a big deal. The only reason soccer is so popular is because it's cheap to play. It's poplular in all countries that haven't figured out how to build a basketball goal or a two story building yet. And just because soccer is the most played, doesn't mean its the most entertaining. It's like watching cross country in a box. I mean come on...a sport where 2-1 is a high scoring game? Wake me up when its over. All other nations are scared shitless of feilding a football team because of the chance they might have to play the americans.
Now you're just being silly, soccer draws in far more money world wide than any other sport, it's not even close. And the NFL tried a Euro league, how did that pan out? 1-2 seasons maybe?
The NFL is the no. 1 sports league in generating revenue. Not bad for a sport that only Americans watch.
9 Billion USD for the NFL. For a soccer league like the EPL it's only £2.5 billion, the most profitable of all the soccer leagues. You're right it's not even close.;)
And for people shitting on basketball and baseball. Those are probably the no. 2 and 3 sports in the world in being watched. Europe might not like those sports that doesn't mean Asia and Latin America doesn't.
Now all the soccer leagues in the world vs. all the football leagues in the world. Further add in revenues from national team matches.
I do concede that Baseball is very popular in Asia and Latin America
Even if American Football generates more money than football (the proper stuff) it is irrelevant to it's worldwide popularity. Football (soccer) is clearly the most popular sport on earth. Watched and played. I'm not even gonna look for stats because it's so blatantly obvious.
If Baseball and Basketball are the 2nd and 3rd most watched sports in the world I would be totally amazed. Maybe it has something to do with the size of nation watching it, however, that is very impressive for sports that seems soley American.
You probably did not watch the last NBA draft but a hefty portion of the top 10 picks were international players suggesting an ever rising participation in the sport.
I certainly did not. I know absolutely nothing about basketball, baseball or American football (well I know about the superbowl and have seen the Harlem Globetrotters live).
Basketball courts are far more common on London council estates than they were 20 years ago. I know that too.
Maybe they are more popular sports than I thought, they are certainly not challenging football though (soccer).
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I did not create the situations I am about to describe but television network executives killed boxing on prime time. Doctors got on line to condemn and try to abolish boxing. This sport has taken many forms since the emergence of the Greek and Roman Empires and boxing goes further back. Give it any name you want, it has endured along with wrestling in Europe and Asia. Most men in America are formidable but the wimps have the jobs to put boxing in the background instead of the fore front. Wimpy executives canceled the highly rated Tuesday night fights and people on skateboards called themselves extreme sports. It's the mentality and the greed of the executives that keeps men from becoming champions in my country. Priorities have changed and I don't care to badmouth anyone that is second in line. Fighters like Mayweather put themselves in a position that makes them the most viable opponents while better men walk away because they couldn't attract flies laced in honey. This is truly a case of the few fucking the many. Professionals in fields screwing boxing wanted it abolished and suddenly Contact Karate finally called kick boxing came along but no one mentioned fatalities in MMA or legalized mayhem where you wear lighter gloves than boxers and get to hit your opponent when he's down. It's all how one packages it. Right now the wimps are in power. I still love boxing and soccer. I may even go to a basketball game once in a while but the most manly sport on earth is where you have to wear eight to ten ounce gloves and a cup under your shorts. Just before the bell rings the ref says,"May the best man win." That is what it is all about and boxing is better than ever and if I have to follow a foreign boxer then so be it, it is the manly art of self defense.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnsebastianmiran
I did not create the situations I am about to describe but television network executives killed boxing on prime time. Doctors got on line to condemn and try to abolish boxing. This sport has taken many forms since the emergence of the Greek and Roman Empires and boxing goes further back. Give it any name you want, it has endured along with wrestling in Europe and Asia. Most men in America are formidable but the wimps have the jobs to put boxing in the background instead of the fore front. Wimpy executives canceled the highly rated Tuesday night fights and people on skateboards called themselves extreme sports. It's the mentality and the greed of the executives that keeps men from becoming champions in my country. Priorities have changed and I don't care to badmouth anyone that is second in line. Fighters like Mayweather put themselves in a position that makes them the most viable opponents while better men walk away because they couldn't attract flies laced in honey. This is truly a case of the few fucking the many. Professionals in fields screwing boxing wanted it abolished and suddenly Contact Karate finally called kick boxing came along but no one mentioned fatalities in MMA or legalized mayhem where you wear lighter gloves than boxers and get to hit your opponent when he's down. It's all how one packages it. Right now the wimps are in power. I still love boxing and soccer. I may even go to a basketball game once in a while but the most manly sport on earth is where you have to wear eight to ten ounce gloves and a cup under your shorts. Just before the bell rings the ref says,"May the best man win." That is what it is all about and boxing is better than ever and if I have to follow a foreign boxer then so be it, it is the manly art of self defense.
Damn! [applause]
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
The boxers like Tyson and B Hop are probably staying in jail because it is easier. If they are athletic they will take a less brutal sport than break their noses. Boxing is pricing itself out of existence, corrupt and losing interest from the next generation.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
That's actually incredibly ignorant, South America is baseball crazy and I doubt there is a single roster in the MLB that doesn't have at least 5 dudes who's first language is Spanish. Asia has also taken to baseball, so it's basically just Europe and Africa that hasn't.
The Giants last year won the World Series with Pablo Sandoval, Juan Uribe, Edgar Renteria, Guillermo Mota, Santiago Cassilla, Jonathan Sanchez (Puerto Rican but still spanish is first language) and Denny Bautista. That's 7 of 25 men not from America. And other teams have much more.
So yes, it is a "World Series" because not a soul would argue that any other baseball team outside of America would beat the Giants in a 7 game series. No German team would beat the Mavs because the best German is on the Mavs. When the best players come over, because the 50 best baseball players play in America no doubt. Well maybe Cuba has a few of those guys but you know the deal there. Just like the best Sumo are in Japan but that sport doesn't have anything close to the influence of baseball or basketball.
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Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
That's actually incredibly ignorant, South America is baseball crazy and I doubt there is a single roster in the MLB that doesn't have at least 5 dudes who's first language is Spanish. Asia has also taken to baseball, so it's basically just Europe and Africa that hasn't.
The Giants last year won the World Series with Pablo Sandoval, Juan Uribe, Edgar Renteria, Guillermo Mota, Santiago Cassilla, Jonathan Sanchez (Puerto Rican but still spanish is first language) and Denny Bautista. That's 7 of 25 men not from America. And other teams have much more.
So yes, it is a "World Series" because not a soul would argue that any other baseball team outside of America would beat the Giants in a 7 game series. No German team would beat the Mavs because the best German is on the Mavs. When the best players come over, because the 50 best baseball players play in America no doubt. Well maybe Cuba has a few of those guys but you know the deal there. Just like the best Sumo are in Japan but that sport doesn't have anything close to the influence of baseball or basketball.
Thanks for that amat. So the Giants are the world champs? But tell me...
Where was the last baseball world cup held?
and
What countries did the Giants beat?
