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The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence inside)
There's this myth that has been floating around for years that everyone from fans to boxing experts rated Tyson as an ATG HW after the destruction of Spinks. I say false. It's only the casual fans that did this, not the long term fans that said that, it was too early to give him that lofty status of up there with ALi and Louis. Tyson fanboys always loved to parade this myth as if it's some fact. My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RHP6..._order&list=UL
This is HBO's post fight special of the Spinks-Tyson fight
At the 9:00 minute mark of the video Larry Merchant asks a few experts about Tyson.
One guy says, "I think it's premature to imagine him as the best or greatest yet, he's 22 years old and has never been in a fight."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA0apK6cZTE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA0apK6cZTE
Then the video continues where someone says, "Greatest in history?" The guy talking says, "No."
Larry Merchant then asks another expert, "Do you think he would have beaten Joe Louis or Ali?" The expert answers, "Joe Louis, no. Ali, no. Not at this point. I would have to see further development. As far as what's out there now, Evander Holyfield the CW champion could suggest would be a decent fighter."
This so called myth that Tyson was being proclaimed as greatest HW or amongst the greatest HWs after the destruction of Spinks is just that a myth.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
That was fascinating! Thanks! I don't think I'd ever seen that before.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Just becuase you found a couple of examples and your dad and your mates didn't think it, doesn't make it a myth. The guy was even p4p number 1 in 88 (ahead of JCC, Azumah Nelson, Holyfield etc) Almost unheard of for a HW.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Actually you just completely disproved your own point ;D
The very fact they asked the question shows how highly he was regarded and means they automatically accepted him as an all time great, they were asking if he was the very best ever, something they havent even asked of Floyd or Manny.
This is great. You tried to prove a point, and provided killer evidence to prove yourself wrong :rolleyes:
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Just becuase you found a couple of examples and your dad and your mates didn't think it, doesn't make it a myth. The guy was even p4p number 1 in 88 (ahead of JCC, Azumah Nelson, Holyfield etc) Almost unheard of for a HW.
I think you will find that none of them were rated as all time greats by GB and his dad at that time either so your argument has no substance.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Actually you just completely disproved your own point ;D
The very fact they asked the question shows how highly he was regarded and means they automatically accepted him as an all time great, they were asking if he was the very best ever, something they havent even asked of Floyd or Manny.
This is great. You tried to prove a point, and provided killer evidence to prove yourself wrong :rolleyes:
No it did not disprove my own point. The myth has been that Tyson was regarded as the greatest HW or amongst the greatest ever after beating Spinks, is just that a myth. Not even the majority of boxing fans or boxing experts regarded him as up there with Ali and Louis, much less best ever especially at 22 years old. Now there was an initial jubilation after Tyson's victory by some, but people that have followed the sport for a long time and even many experts at the time said, "Let's wait and see before we start calling him as great as Ali and Louis or greater than them."
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Actually you just completely disproved your own point ;D
The very fact they asked the question shows how highly he was regarded and means they automatically accepted him as an all time great, they were asking if he was the very best ever, something they havent even asked of Floyd or Manny.
This is great. You tried to prove a point, and provided killer evidence to prove yourself wrong :rolleyes:
No it did not disprove my own point. The myth has been that Tyson was regarded as the greatest HW or amongst the greatest ever after beating Spinks, is just that a myth. Not even the majority of boxing fans or boxing experts regarded him as up there with Ali and Louis, much less best ever especially at 22 years old. Now there was an initial jubilation after Tyson's victory by some, but people that have followed the sport for a long time and even many experts at the time said, "Let's wait and see before we start calling him as great as Ali and Louis or greater than them."
You are an idiot :D
They asked if he was the best ever. That already takes for granted he's an all time great. How many times have you heard anyone on HBO ask if Wlad or Vitali are the best heavy's of all time? It's never been asked because it doesn't need to be. Yet Wlad will likely go down in history as a top 20, probably top 15 heavyweight of all time.
With Mike it was the exact opposite. With him they went straight to the biggest names of all, and asked if he could beat them? At 22, shows just how much they were in awe of him.
I havent heard them ask if Saul Alvarez could have beaten Ray Robinson at welter yet, or Hearns or Duran. Have you?
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
And Tyson IS an all time great btw. Which is why he was a first ballot Hall of Famer this year...
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Actually you just completely disproved your own point ;D
The very fact they asked the question shows how highly he was regarded and means they automatically accepted him as an all time great, they were asking if he was the very best ever, something they havent even asked of Floyd or Manny.
This is great. You tried to prove a point, and provided killer evidence to prove yourself wrong :rolleyes:
No it did not disprove my own point. The myth has been that Tyson was regarded as the greatest HW or amongst the greatest ever after beating Spinks, is just that a myth. Not even the majority of boxing fans or boxing experts regarded him as up there with Ali and Louis, much less best ever especially at 22 years old. Now there was an initial jubilation after Tyson's victory by some, but people that have followed the sport for a long time and even many experts at the time said, "Let's wait and see before we start calling him as great as Ali and Louis or greater than them."
You are an idiot :D
They asked if he was the best ever. That already takes for granted he's an all time great. How many times have you heard anyone on HBO ask if Wlad or Vitali are the best heavy's of all time? It's never been asked because it doesn't need to be. Yet Wlad will likely go down in history as a top 20, probably top 15 heavyweight of all time.
With Mike it was the exact opposite. With him they went straight to the biggest names of all, and asked if he could beat them? At 22, shows just how much they were in awe of him.
I havent heard them ask if Saul Alvarez could have beaten Ray Robinson at welter yet, or Hearns or Duran. Have you?
Totally agree nicely put.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
Exactly mate - as I said in the other thread. If Tyson wasn't something special why has nobody before or since been talked about and caused so much excitement. It's not a coincidence or luck! He wasn't an Ali, i.e a great talker and a star outside the ring, he was dull as fuck outside the ring. He was just an awesome fighter
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Actually you just completely disproved your own point ;D
The very fact they asked the question shows how highly he was regarded and means they automatically accepted him as an all time great, they were asking if he was the very best ever, something they havent even asked of Floyd or Manny.
This is great. You tried to prove a point, and provided killer evidence to prove yourself wrong :rolleyes:
No it did not disprove my own point. The myth has been that Tyson was regarded as the greatest HW or amongst the greatest ever after beating Spinks, is just that a myth. Not even the majority of boxing fans or boxing experts regarded him as up there with Ali and Louis, much less best ever especially at 22 years old. Now there was an initial jubilation after Tyson's victory by some, but people that have followed the sport for a long time and even many experts at the time said, "Let's wait and see before we start calling him as great as Ali and Louis or greater than them."
You are an idiot :D
They asked if he was the best ever. That already takes for granted he's an all time great. How many times have you heard anyone on HBO ask if Wlad or Vitali are the best heavy's of all time? It's never been asked because it doesn't need to be. Yet Wlad will likely go down in history as a top 20, probably top 15 heavyweight of all time.
With Mike it was the exact opposite. With him they went straight to the biggest names of all, and asked if he could beat them? At 22, shows just how much they were in awe of him.
I havent heard them ask if Saul Alvarez could have beaten Ray Robinson at welter yet, or Hearns or Duran. Have you?
They (HBO) asked the question if he was the best ever because some misguided fools asked that question after the jubilation of the Spinks fight. But you have to remember Ali had his last fight in late '81, he was still a big iconic star in the sport that is still remember by many. The truth is that outside of a misguided few like casual fans no one really thought he was an atg up there with Ali or even greater than Ali or Louis, still the standard for Heavies.
Why was there this thread? Because for years you have the Tyson fans saying that basically everyone thought that Tyson was just as great or greater than past HW greats after the SPinks fight. That is not the case. A myth just like the long count in the Buster Douglas fight.
And no need to get into insults.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Actually you just completely disproved your own point ;D
The very fact they asked the question shows how highly he was regarded and means they automatically accepted him as an all time great, they were asking if he was the very best ever, something they havent even asked of Floyd or Manny.
This is great. You tried to prove a point, and provided killer evidence to prove yourself wrong :rolleyes:
No it did not disprove my own point. The myth has been that Tyson was regarded as the greatest HW or amongst the greatest ever after beating Spinks, is just that a myth. Not even the majority of boxing fans or boxing experts regarded him as up there with Ali and Louis, much less best ever especially at 22 years old. Now there was an initial jubilation after Tyson's victory by some, but people that have followed the sport for a long time and even many experts at the time said, "Let's wait and see before we start calling him as great as Ali and Louis or greater than them."
You are an idiot :D
They asked if he was the best ever. That already takes for granted he's an all time great. How many times have you heard anyone on HBO ask if Wlad or Vitali are the best heavy's of all time? It's never been asked because it doesn't need to be. Yet Wlad will likely go down in history as a top 20, probably top 15 heavyweight of all time.
With Mike it was the exact opposite. With him they went straight to the biggest names of all, and asked if he could beat them? At 22, shows just how much they were in awe of him.
I havent heard them ask if Saul Alvarez could have beaten Ray Robinson at welter yet, or Hearns or Duran. Have you?
They (HBO) asked the question if he was the best ever because some misguided fools asked that question after the jubilation of the Spinks fight. But you have to remember Ali had his last fight in late '81, he was still a big iconic star in the sport that is still remember by many.
The truth is that outside of a misguided few like casual fans no one really thought he was an atg up there with Ali or even greater than Ali or Louis, still the standard for Heavies.
Why was there this thread? Because for years you have the Tyson fans saying that basically everyone thought that Tyson was just as great or greater than past HW greats after the SPinks fight. That is not the case. A myth just like the long count in the Buster Douglas fight.
And no need to get into insults.
Simply not true mate. I remember it like it was yesterday and you would do well to find anybody that wasn't at least comparing him to the ATGs and in the same breath as those guys.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Actually you just completely disproved your own point ;D
The very fact they asked the question shows how highly he was regarded and means they automatically accepted him as an all time great, they were asking if he was the very best ever, something they havent even asked of Floyd or Manny.
This is great. You tried to prove a point, and provided killer evidence to prove yourself wrong :rolleyes:
No it did not disprove my own point. The myth has been that Tyson was regarded as the greatest HW or amongst the greatest ever after beating Spinks, is just that a myth. Not even the majority of boxing fans or boxing experts regarded him as up there with Ali and Louis, much less best ever especially at 22 years old. Now there was an initial jubilation after Tyson's victory by some, but people that have followed the sport for a long time and even many experts at the time said, "Let's wait and see before we start calling him as great as Ali and Louis or greater than them."
You are an idiot :D
They asked if he was the best ever. That already takes for granted he's an all time great. How many times have you heard anyone on HBO ask if Wlad or Vitali are the best heavy's of all time? It's never been asked because it doesn't need to be. Yet Wlad will likely go down in history as a top 20, probably top 15 heavyweight of all time.
With Mike it was the exact opposite. With him they went straight to the biggest names of all, and asked if he could beat them? At 22, shows just how much they were in awe of him.
I havent heard them ask if Saul Alvarez could have beaten Ray Robinson at welter yet, or Hearns or Duran. Have you?
They (HBO) asked the question if he was the best ever because some misguided fools asked that question after the jubilation of the Spinks fight. But you have to remember Ali had his last fight in late '81, he was still a big iconic star in the sport that is still remember by many. The truth is that outside of a misguided few like casual fans no one really thought he was an atg up there with Ali or even greater than Ali or Louis, still the standard for Heavies.
Why was there this thread?
Because for years you have the Tyson fans saying that basically everyone thought that Tyson was just as great or greater than past HW greats after the SPinks fight. That is not the case. A myth just like the long count in the Buster Douglas fight.
And no need to get into insults.
It IS the case. Still now if you approach any man on the street and ask him if he likes boxing and who he most likes 8/10 will say 'I loved Tyson back in the day', and then follow it with 'in his prime he would have beaten anybody'.
Try it, approach some random people and ask them.
What you basically are trying to say is 'Me and my dad didn't buy into the hype that Tyson was an all time great'.
Which is ok. Well done. But you were wrong, as history has shown that he was one of the all time greats after all.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Actually you just completely disproved your own point ;D
The very fact they asked the question shows how highly he was regarded and means they automatically accepted him as an all time great, they were asking if he was the very best ever, something they havent even asked of Floyd or Manny.
This is great. You tried to prove a point, and provided killer evidence to prove yourself wrong :rolleyes:
No it did not disprove my own point. The myth has been that Tyson was regarded as the greatest HW or amongst the greatest ever after beating Spinks, is just that a myth. Not even the majority of boxing fans or boxing experts regarded him as up there with Ali and Louis, much less best ever especially at 22 years old. Now there was an initial jubilation after Tyson's victory by some, but people that have followed the sport for a long time and even many experts at the time said, "Let's wait and see before we start calling him as great as Ali and Louis or greater than them."
You are an idiot :D
They asked if he was the best ever. That already takes for granted he's an all time great. How many times have you heard anyone on HBO ask if Wlad or Vitali are the best heavy's of all time? It's never been asked because it doesn't need to be. Yet Wlad will likely go down in history as a top 20, probably top 15 heavyweight of all time.
With Mike it was the exact opposite. With him they went straight to the biggest names of all, and asked if he could beat them? At 22, shows just how much they were in awe of him.
I havent heard them ask if Saul Alvarez could have beaten Ray Robinson at welter yet, or Hearns or Duran. Have you?
Thats a bit much Bilbo. Be a nice Hobbit.
Tyson was regarded as one of the greatest ever, thats evident by his ranking in the P4P list at the time and all the talk about him.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Just becuase you found a couple of examples and your dad and your mates didn't think it, doesn't make it a myth. The guy was even p4p number 1 in 88 (ahead of JCC, Azumah Nelson, Holyfield etc) Almost unheard of for a HW.
Well as that was the first time p4p rankings were actually published? It was all unheard of ;)
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Hulk. What's with the sig? ;D
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
Which heavyweights?
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
Exactly mate - as I said in the other thread. If Tyson wasn't something special why has nobody before or since been talked about and caused so much excitement. It's not a coincidence or luck! He wasn't an Ali, i.e a great talker and a star outside the ring, he was dull as fuck outside the ring. He was just an awesome fighter
Tyson DULL??????????? Are we talking about the same guy? Robin Givens, streetfight with Blood Greene, raised pigeons, former juvenile delinquent? Dull?
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
Who exactly? Foreman yes, Liston maybe, and....
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
Which heavyweights?
Dempsey (bigger than babe Ruth while Ruth was in his heydey), Louis (bigger than everyone at 22 and remained there for a decade), Liston (so scary even Patterson brought a disguise), Foreman (people were literally fearing for Ali's life) and Ali for starters.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
Which heavyweights?
Dempsey (bigger than babe Ruth while Ruth was in his heydey), Louis (bigger than everyone at 22 and remained there for a decade), Liston (so scary even Patterson brought a disguise), Foreman (people were literally fearing for Ali's life) and Ali for starters.
I would say with some confidence that in terms of excitement created due to their efforts in the ring none of those names come close (great as they may actually have been)
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
Which heavyweights?
Dempsey (bigger than babe Ruth while Ruth was in his heydey), Louis (bigger than everyone at 22 and remained there for a decade), Liston (so scary even Patterson brought a disguise), Foreman (people were literally fearing for Ali's life) and Ali for starters.
I would say with some confidence that in terms of excitement created due to their efforts in the ring none of those names come close (great as they may actually have been)
THAT statement is INSANE! Jack Dempsey was THE star in the Golden Age of American sport. Bigger than Ruth, Bobby Jones, Bill Tilden, Red Grange, Knute Rockne and Notre Dame etc. He CREATED the event fight. He was so big he drew 100,000 person crowds and made a fortune making films while he was champion.
Foreman was literally thought to be life threatening, something I never heard said about Tyson. Exciting? Maybe not the right descriptive word. He was thought to be a bringer of doom.
Louis? Watch interviews or read the writings of prominent black political, literary and art figures who have commented on what their neighborhoods were like the night of Louis fights. Then read Jimmy Cannon or how President Roosevelt treated Louis before the second Schmeling fight. The respect and even awe in which Louis was held in his own time is demonstrable.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Tyson had an aura and a raw presence. You can call it hype, marketing, fanfare, intensity, explosivness whatever but it did equal if not surpass his actual in the ring ability for me. Just because someone "knows" the name doesn't mean that they can give you an accurate account of his career and opposition. Last year I ran into this in the coffee shop, was talking loose about him being in the movies and a guy claiming "to love Tyson" turns and ask seriously if he can again reclaim a heavyweight title?! I say no man. He proceeds to get excited and almost imitate a fighter..."ahh come on brah, with that mean streak and power I hink he fo sho can"...THAT people is hype, some credible memory and an aura outrunning reality.
* I think you can lay a huge pet peeve at the Tyson talk as well. Its that power in and of itself is the ultimate end game but it can also be severly overrated. Everyone loves ko's and the finality of it but when a guy has to fall back, have some shake it off and shift gears to find victory that for me is when you really find out what they are made of. and maybe only then.
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Tyson had an aura and a raw presence. You can call it hype, marketing, fanfare, intensity, explosivness whatever but it did equal if not surpass his actual in the ring ability for me. Just because someone "knows" the name doesn't mean that they can give you an accurate account of his career and opposition. Last year I ran into this in the coffee shop, was talking loose about him being in the movies and a guy claiming "to love Tyson" turns and ask seriously if he can again reclaim a heavyweight title?! I say no man. He proceeds to get excited and almost imitate a fighter..."ahh come on brah, with that mean streak and power I hink he fo sho can"...THAT people is hype, some credible memory and an aura outrunning reality.
I will say though that I shook Tyson's hand at a party in 1987 and he was a scary, scary dude. How much of that was in my head and how much was the way he carried himself? I dunno. But I couldn't get away fast enough ;)
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Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
Which heavyweights?
Dempsey (bigger than babe Ruth while Ruth was in his heydey), Louis (bigger than everyone at 22 and remained there for a decade), Liston (so scary even Patterson brought a disguise), Foreman (people were literally fearing for Ali's life) and Ali for starters.
I would say with some confidence that in terms of excitement created due to their efforts in the ring none of those names come close (great as they may actually have been)
THAT statement is INSANE! Jack Dempsey was THE star in the Golden Age of American sport. Bigger than Ruth, Bobby Jones, Bill Tilden, Red Grange, Knute Rockne and Notre Dame etc. He CREATED the event fight. He was so big he drew 100,000 person crowds and made a fortune making films while he was champion.
Foreman was literally thought to be life threatening, something I never heard said about Tyson. Exciting? Maybe not the right descriptive word. He was thought to be a bringer of doom.
Louis? Watch interviews or read the writings of prominent black political, literary and art figures who have commented on what their neighborhoods were like the night of Louis fights. Then read Jimmy Cannon or how President Roosevelt treated Louis before the second Schmeling fight. The respect and even awe in which Louis was held in his own time is demonstrable.
You are on a different planet!!
Mike Tyson is one of the most famous people who has ever lived!!
I kid you not, my wife's nan is staying with us as it's her 90th birthday tomorrow. I just asked her if she knew who George Foreman, or Jack Demsey were - she didn't! But she knew who Tyson was!
Elvis
Ali
Princess Diana
Mother Theresa
Michaelangelo
Michale Jackson
The Beatles
Mike Tyson
;D
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Ask Lennox Lewis why he shit his pants, in his fight against Tyson. He had fear on his face, fear in his body language. Had to cheat the whole fight, didn't want to fight, just hold all night long. If you have to hold and cheat all fight long, you are a scared little pussy. Lewis should have been dq'd for holding. He wanted to hold Mikey all night long in his arms. Had size,weight and reach advantage and still was scared shitless of an almost shot Tyson. Lewis would have been sparked in the first round if not allowed to cheat. And this by an almost shot Tyson.
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
Which heavyweights?
Dempsey (bigger than babe Ruth while Ruth was in his heydey), Louis (bigger than everyone at 22 and remained there for a decade), Liston (so scary even Patterson brought a disguise), Foreman (people were literally fearing for Ali's life) and Ali for starters.
I would say with some confidence that in terms of excitement created due to their efforts in the ring none of those names come close (great as they may actually have been)
THAT statement is INSANE! Jack Dempsey was THE star in the Golden Age of American sport. Bigger than Ruth, Bobby Jones, Bill Tilden, Red Grange, Knute Rockne and Notre Dame etc. He CREATED the event fight. He was so big he drew 100,000 person crowds and made a fortune making films while he was champion.
Foreman was literally thought to be life threatening, something I never heard said about Tyson. Exciting? Maybe not the right descriptive word. He was thought to be a bringer of doom.
Louis? Watch interviews or read the writings of prominent black political, literary and art figures who have commented on what their neighborhoods were like the night of Louis fights. Then read Jimmy Cannon or how President Roosevelt treated Louis before the second Schmeling fight. The respect and even awe in which Louis was held in his own time is demonstrable.
You are on a different planet!!
Mike Tyson is one of the most famous people who has ever lived!!
I kid you not, my wife's nan is staying with us as it's her 90th birthday tomorrow. I just asked her if she knew who George Foreman, or Jack Demsey were - she didn't! But she knew who Tyson was!
Elvis
Ali
Princess Diana
Mother Theresa
Michaelangelo
Michale Jackson
The Beatles
Mike Tyson
;D
Yeah, my planet didn't begin in 1985 ;)
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
Which heavyweights?
Dempsey (bigger than babe Ruth while Ruth was in his heydey), Louis (bigger than everyone at 22 and remained there for a decade), Liston (so scary even Patterson brought a disguise), Foreman (people were literally fearing for Ali's life) and Ali for starters.
I would say with some confidence that in terms of excitement created due to their efforts in the ring none of those names come close (great as they may actually have been)
THAT statement is INSANE! Jack Dempsey was THE star in the Golden Age of American sport. Bigger than Ruth, Bobby Jones, Bill Tilden, Red Grange, Knute Rockne and Notre Dame etc. He CREATED the event fight. He was so big he drew 100,000 person crowds and made a fortune making films while he was champion.
Foreman was literally thought to be life threatening, something I never heard said about Tyson. Exciting? Maybe not the right descriptive word. He was thought to be a bringer of doom.
Louis? Watch interviews or read the writings of prominent black political, literary and art figures who have commented on what their neighborhoods were like the night of Louis fights. Then read Jimmy Cannon or how President Roosevelt treated Louis before the second Schmeling fight. The respect and even awe in which Louis was held in his own time is demonstrable.
You are on a different planet!!
Mike Tyson is one of the most famous people who has ever lived!!
I kid you not, my wife's nan is staying with us as it's her 90th birthday tomorrow. I just asked her if she knew who George Foreman, or Jack Demsey were - she didn't! But she knew who Tyson was!
Elvis
Ali
Princess Diana
Mother Theresa
Michaelangelo
Michale Jackson
The Beatles
Mike Tyson
;D
Yeah, my planet didn't begin in 1985 ;)
No, your planet ended in 1955 ;)
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
awdleyfuturehalloffamer
Ask Lennox Lewis why he shit his pants, in his fight against Tyson. He had fear on his face, fear in his body language. Had to cheat the whole fight, didn't want to fight, just hold all night long. If you have to hold and cheat all fight long, you are a scared little pussy. Lewis should have been dq'd for holding. He wanted to hold Mikey all night long in his arms. Had size,weight and reach advantage and still was scared shitless of an almost shot Tyson. Lewis would have been sparked in the first round if not allowed to cheat. And this by an almost shot Tyson.
I just want to be sure we're not talking about Tyson when we slam others for cheating etc and etc ???
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ryanman
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I wasn't even born during that time, but the guy was rated P4P number 1 as BIG H said. And destroyed a great fighter Michael Spinks in just over 1 minute. The guy was wrecking threw every Heayweight in his path.
And you can count on one hand how many clean hard shots he took in his prime, i heard at one point he was the 3rd most talked about person only behind Elvis and god himself. So that just shows no one had seen anything like Mike Tyson in boxing.
OF COURSE people had seen things like him in boxing. He was just the latest and so a hot topic.
Which heavyweights?
Dempsey (bigger than babe Ruth while Ruth was in his heydey), Louis (bigger than everyone at 22 and remained there for a decade), Liston (so scary even Patterson brought a disguise), Foreman (people were literally fearing for Ali's life) and Ali for starters.
I would say with some confidence that in terms of excitement created due to their efforts in the ring none of those names come close (great as they may actually have been)
THAT statement is INSANE! Jack Dempsey was THE star in the Golden Age of American sport. Bigger than Ruth, Bobby Jones, Bill Tilden, Red Grange, Knute Rockne and Notre Dame etc. He CREATED the event fight. He was so big he drew 100,000 person crowds and made a fortune making films while he was champion.
Foreman was literally thought to be life threatening, something I never heard said about Tyson. Exciting? Maybe not the right descriptive word. He was thought to be a bringer of doom.
Louis? Watch interviews or read the writings of prominent black political, literary and art figures who have commented on what their neighborhoods were like the night of Louis fights. Then read Jimmy Cannon or how President Roosevelt treated Louis before the second Schmeling fight. The respect and even awe in which Louis was held in his own time is demonstrable.
You are on a different planet!!
Mike Tyson is one of the most famous people who has ever lived!!
I kid you not, my wife's nan is staying with us as it's her 90th birthday tomorrow. I just asked her if she knew who George Foreman, or Jack Demsey were - she didn't! But she knew who Tyson was!
Elvis
Ali
Princess Diana
Mother Theresa
Michaelangelo
Michale Jackson
The Beatles
Mike Tyson
;D
Yeah, my planet didn't begin in 1985 ;)
No, your planet ended in 1955 ;)
LOL
THAT was GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.
Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.
Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.
All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.
However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.
Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.
* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact. Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Howlin Mad Missy
Hulk. What's with the sig? ;D
Well I lost a sig bet to PSL (Pac Straight Left) regarding the Haye vs. Klitschko fight.
So he wanted me to fly this sig. And I am.
He deserves all the credit and rep for it not me. But people keep repping me for it. ;D
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.
Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.
Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.
All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.
However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.
Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.
* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact.
Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.
Mike Tyson is more globally known by the average man of any age in the street than any of those guys!
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
THIS BOY IS DANGEROUS
That was the caption of Mike Tyson's picture in a magazine the 1st time i saw him. He was 18 0r 19 at the time.
By 1987 I saw him beat Berbick, Thomas, Tucker and Smith, they were the 4 best heavyweights at the time.
Philippines is a Muhammad Ali country. Even kids aged 7, 8 years old knew ali and Ali was my my favorite fighter. After Tyson scramble Spinks brain and eyes i thought Tyson was a great fighter but during those days i didnt care about a fighters resume and all that all i care a bout was exciting knockout fights. but even if i thought/knew that Tyson was a GREAT fighter I didnt ranked him near Muhammad ALI.
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
[QUOTE=ryanman;994173][QUOTE=marbleheadmaui;994165][QUOTE=BIG H;994161][QUOTE=marbleheadmaui;994157]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Yeah, my planet didn't begin in 1985 ;)
No, your planet ended in 1955 ;)
I literally LOL to that but your wrong.
Dick Tiger retired in 1970 ;D
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.
Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.
Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.
All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.
However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.
Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.
* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact.
Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.
Mike Tyson is more globally known by the average man of any age in the street than any of those guys!
But it ain't about FAME, it's about greatness, isn't it?
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.
Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.
Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.
All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.
However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.
Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.
* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact.
Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.
Mike Tyson is more globally known by the average man of any age in the street than any of those guys!
But it ain't about FAME, it's about greatness, isn't it?
H was responding to Jaz who was talking about how big they were in their time, not great.
Anyway, Tyson would have wrecked Jack Dempsey and Marciano, you seriously think differently?
-
Re: The Myth everyone rated Tyson as an ATG HW after Spinks fight (Video evidence ins
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
My dad and his friends didn't say that about Tyson and they were hardcore fans, because they felt it was way too early. And other boxing experts also felt that way.
Mate, given your dad argued that Haye would be the first white lineal HW champ of the world since Braddock, his opinion probably won't hold too much weight here.
Was any of your dad's friends a leading boxing pundit of the day? Otherwise it might be hard to sell them as boxing experts.
All my piss-taking aside, I do agree to a point, I think there is an idea that just because some people thought he might be the best in 1988, does not mean that we have to unilaterally accept that is how it was. Imo fighters should never be placed historically while still active. Otherwise you get opinions like that Kellerman article about RJJ being the best fighter ever, which in truth now looks pretty silly.
However, this works both ways. Writing someone who is active off as being the greatest can also look foolish. I remember reading an article by the great Nat Fleischer from around the time that Ali was banned from boxing. In it he argued that to consider Ali among the ten greatest HWs of all time was a ludicrous concept not even worth thinking about & how he couldn't even compare to the greats of a previous era.
Generally people always go too far one way or the other. The middle ground is where the truth is. Wow that could read like something Andre would say. I'm a sage.
* One last thing, H, you are very wrong about the excitement. All due respect to Tyson who might be the most exciting fighter to watch of all time, but he had nothing like the cultural impact of Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Ali. You could make a strong argument that Marciano had a greater impact.
Tyson was big, but not as big as those guys were in their time.
Mike Tyson is more globally known by the average man of any age in the street than any of those guys!
But it ain't about FAME, it's about greatness, isn't it?
H was responding to Jaz who was talking about how big they were in their time, not great.
Anyway, Tyson would have wrecked Jack Dempsey and Marciano, you seriously think differently?
I get very uncomfortable when folks predict as near certain outcomes things that have no basis in history. Niether Marciano nor Dempsey (post Doc Kearns) was ever wrecked.
Neither would have been intimidated by Tyson. Does that mean they beat him? Nope. But it's a much tougher call for me than it is for you.
