More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th

Lou DiBella has confirmed it.

It's fucking bullshit. Coming off of a loss and straight into another title shot for another belt.

I swear, I couldn't care less if they just took away all of the belts in boxing. They have become a mockery.

I agree, lets just get rid of all the belts.

Why is that bullshit? Berto is one of the most recognisable names in boxing and an one of the very best at welterweight?

He lost a very competitive fight to an inspired Victor Ortiz in one of the best fights of the year, where Ortiz looked so good he walked straight into a megafight with Mayweather.

Presumably you think Berto is not good enough to challenge for a world title belt now against the virtually unknown 35 year old Zavek?

I guess you must believe there are a slew of better, more exciting, crowd pleasing boxers who are far more deserving of a title shot than the 27-1 former world champion Berto who had made 5 defences of his title and was Ring ranked number 2 in the weight class behind Manny before losing to Ortiz?

Please enlighten us with their names?

This is a great matchup for boxing, we need the biggest stars in the limelight and I'm sure Zavek feels he is deserving as a reigning champ of taking on a big name fighter rather than some obscure unknown little fighter that would make you happier had he gotten a shot.

Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.

Berto is a HBO hype job. The majority of the boxing world agrees with this.

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Originally Posted by boxingbantz

Berto is a HBO hype job. The majority of the boxing world agrees with this.

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Clearly not Ring Magazine who still rate him at number 3, behind Manny and Ortiz and ahead of Zaveck.

Out of interest seeing as you so oppose this fight just answer the following questions.

1) Is Berto not a good enough opponent for Zaveck?

2) Do you expect Zaveck to win this fight easily?

3) If not Berto, then who should Zaveck fight?

4) What television network are you expecting to see this new title fight Zaveck vs your preferred opponent on?

They haven't BECOME a mockery. They have been a mockery for 15 years.

So who cares if he's fighting a strapholder. Straps mean squat.

Pretty good fight if you ask me.

I'm more pissed that it'll undoubtedly be a headliner on HBO. Berto is an unfinished product rushed to market fed to the fans and needs to get off the air for awhile and refine his game...he can start with bending his knees.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I'm more pissed that it'll undoubtedly be a headliner on HBO. Berto is an unfinished product rushed to market fed to the fans and needs to get off the air for awhile and refine his game...he can start with bending his knees.

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I hope it's a headliner on HBO! Don't you want to see this?

I just don't understand the criticisms. You want him to go away and refine his game? He defended his world title 5 times. What bigger star do you wish to replace him with?

The only other establsihed star in the division is Shane Mosley, but I imagine there would be an even bigger outcry were he to fight Zaveck.

So if not Berto and Mosley, who should Zaveck fight so that boxing remains credible and just?

Have a look at the rankings and find the guy that Berto needs to get out of the way for? :confused:

Berto is being matched for an immediate title shot because by universal concsent he the best welterweight after Manny and Ortiz right now. It's the right fight.

I presume boxingbantz believes the title shot should go to either Vjacheslav Senchenko or Rafal Jaciewicz as they are the next highest rated guys, both below Berto however.

Well lets assume they match Senchenko or Jaciewicz with Zaveck. Where are you going to watch this fight? It's not going to be picked up by an American network, I doubt even Bob Sheridan would be covering it. It would be an obscure German fight on Eurosport, that none of us would see, unless you wanted to watch a foreign stream.

So we give a weaker opponent, with no name at all a shot at a world title on a foreign channel that nobody will see, just to avoid the injustice of the worlds third best welterweight fighting for a title again just after losing his own in his sixth defence.

You act as if they would even spell Zavecks name correctly if it wasn't for the flawed Berto having him imported to a grand stage in hopes of grabbing a trinket, again being marketed as "Champion" to then push Berto into a huge HBO fight again, that he wont win, again. Berto ain't beating Pac nor Mayweather. You don't have to read ratings or drink the kool aid to know that.

Berto is a very flawed fighter and if Zaveck beats him I wouldnt be suprised if Zaveck goes the way of Pirog....poof.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

You act as if they would even spell Zavecks name correctly if it wasn't for the flawed Berto having him imported to a grand stage in hopes of grabbing a trinket, again being marketed as "Champion" to then push Berto into a huge HBO fight again, that he wont win, again. Berto ain't beating Pac nor Mayweather. You don't have to read ratings or drink the kool aid to know that.

Berto is a very flawed fighter and if Zaveck beats him I wouldnt be suprised if Zaveck goes the way of Pirog....poof.

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I'm not saying he isn't a flawed fighter. I'# just saying he's clearly the most common sense opponent for Zaveck? Have you ever watched Zaveck fight? I'm guessing most of us haven't and that he himself will be relishing the opportunity to fight in America, probably on HBO in the most high profile fight of his career, against Ring magazines number 3 welterweight, and a former world champion himself.

The idea that this fight makes a mockery of boxing as boxingbantz believes is just ludicrous. It would be a mockery if they tried to give the title shot to somebody else.

Clearly Berto is the best opponent that Zaveck can face given that the only two higher rated boxers in the division than him are Pacquaio and Ortiz. Zaveck is not nearly a big enough name to tempt either of them to fight so he's going for the next best thing, in Andre Berto.

How is this a bad matchup? Who should Zaveck be fighting that would make this less of a mockery :confused:

This thread is just such a bizarre and unjustified criticism. It's the best possible fight that could have been made and I am excited to see it.

As for Dimitry Pirog he actually proves why the Berto Zaveck matchup is a good one!

Since beating Danny Jacob Pirog has returned to fight in his native Russia, which according to you means he has disappeared and is no longer relevant. Why isn't he? Because he isn't fighting in America on HBO or Showtime?

Exactly my point!


If Berto doesn't get the shot because he's not worthy than Zaveck fights in Germany or Russia himself which to us is the equivilant of not existing.


So how then is Berto the wrong choice for him?

If he fights any of the other challengers it will be on Eurosport in Russian or German. And this is better for boxing apparently?:confused:

Bilbo once again is on point with his comments. I do not see the problem with this matchup at all.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I'm more pissed that it'll undoubtedly be a headliner on HBO. Berto is an unfinished product rushed to market fed to the fans and needs to get off the air for awhile and refine his game...he can start with bending his knees.

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I hope it's a headliner on HBO! Don't you want to see this?

I just don't understand the criticisms. You want him to go away and refine his game? He defended his world title 5 times. What bigger star do you wish to replace him with?

The only other establsihed star in the division is Shane Mosley, but I imagine there would be an even bigger outcry were he to fight Zaveck.

So if not Berto and Mosley, who should Zaveck fight so that boxing remains credible and just?

Have a look at the rankings and find the guy that Berto needs to get out of the way for? :confused:

Berto is being matched for an immediate title shot because by universal concsent he the best welterweight after Manny and Ortiz right now. It's the right fight.

I presume boxingbantz believes the title shot should go to either Vjacheslav Senchenko or Rafal Jaciewicz as they are the next highest rated guys, both below Berto however.

Well lets assume they match Senchenko or Jaciewicz with Zaveck. Where are you going to watch this fight? It's not going to be picked up by an American network, I doubt even Bob Sheridan would be covering it. It would be an obscure German fight on Eurosport, that none of us would see, unless you wanted to watch a foreign stream.

So we give a weaker opponent, with no name at all a shot at a world title on a foreign channel that nobody will see, just to avoid the injustice of the worlds third best welterweight fighting for a title again just after losing his own in his sixth defence.

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Damn right I don't care were Berto is ranked he should have to fight some guys to get back to a title shot. There are guys in the rankings who have been there for years and haven't had a title shot give those guys a chance. Thats how new stars are made! Who cares if its not on HBO it should be a bout being fair and to come of a title shot to get another when there are fighters who wont ever get a title shot is not just.

whats the problem?

he had a decent reign, lost a close fight when he lost his title

why doesnt he deserve an immediate chance?

did hopkins deserve a rematch with taylor? or taylor with pavlik? did martinez deserve the world title fight with pavlik after a loss? or mosley with de la hoya?

sure this isnt just something else to complain about?

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

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I agree with this. If a fighter is not getting a rematch, #3 or lower sounds good. I don't understand the reasoning of getting a immediate title shot. We might as well give Pascal and David Haye a title shot again as well in their next fight back. The root of this problem is all the damn belts in the first place, if there wasn't so mant belts these guys wouldn't be getting a immediate "title" shot again. Get rid of most of the belts and we get rid of the problem.

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

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Originally Posted by MMASUX

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I agree with this. If a fighter is not getting a rematch, #3 or lower sounds good. I don't understand the reasoning of getting a immediate title shot. We might as well give Pascal and David Haye a title shot again as well in their next fight back. The root of this problem is all the damn belts in the first place, if there wasn't so mant belts these guys wouldn't be getting a immediate "title" shot again. Get rid of most of the belts and we get rid of the problem.

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Actually the problem is your misunderstanding of what the belts are. There are 4 major belts in each weightclass. Therefore by fighting for one, in an ideal world the winner will be one of the 4 best fighters at that weight class.

The Ring rankings meanwhile have more real significance, with the Ring champion of each division being recognised as number in that division, most often there is no Ring champion at a weight class, as it requires unifying the belts.

So at welter, both Manny and Ortiz, the top two welters hold belts. Berto is rated number 3. Therefore he SHOULD be fighting for a belt for boxing to be fair and consistent. Surely the best and highest rated fighters should be getting the title shots.

He's fighting for Zaveck's strap, not for the Ring championship. If the winner of Berto Zaveck was to become the Ring champion then it would be a farce. But they will not. They will become a belt holder, a titlist, holding one of the 4 recognised belts.

This is entirely correct.

The problem is as I have stated before, some fans have an impossibly archaic view of what each belt represents. Winning a belt doesn't mean you are the best in the division, how can it, when there are three other belts. It just means you are one of the top 4 (ideal world). To know a fighters real ranking you turn to Ring magazine's rankings, and eventually if a fighter unifies they may end up as the Ring champion, and get a Ring belt presented to them. This is an honour that doesn't often happen as it's not easy to become a Ring champ.

There really isn't a whole lot wrong with the system, just many fans seem incapable of understanding it.

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

Damn right I don't care were Berto is ranked he should have to fight some guys to get back to a title shot. There are guys in the rankings who have been there for years and haven't had a title shot give those guys a chance. Thats how new stars are made! Who cares if its not on HBO it should be a bout being fair and to come of a title shot to get another when there are fighters who wont ever get a title shot is not just.

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Spot on.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by MMASUX

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I agree with this. If a fighter is not getting a rematch, #3 or lower sounds good. I don't understand the reasoning of getting a immediate title shot. We might as well give Pascal and David Haye a title shot again as well in their next fight back. The root of this problem is all the damn belts in the first place, if there wasn't so mant belts these guys wouldn't be getting a immediate "title" shot again. Get rid of most of the belts and we get rid of the problem.

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Actually the problem is your misunderstanding of what the belts are. There are 4 major belts in each weightclass. Therefore by fighting for one, in an ideal world the winner will be one of the 4 best fighters at that weight class.

The Ring rankings meanwhile have more real significance, with the Ring champion of each division being recognised as number in that division, most often there is no Ring champion at a weight class, as it requires unifying the belts.

So at welter, both Manny and Ortiz, the top two welters hold belts. Berto is rated number 3. Therefore he SHOULD be fighting for a belt for boxing to be fair and consistent. Surely the best and highest rated fighters should be getting the title shots.

He's fighting for Zaveck's strap, not for the Ring championship. If the winner of Berto Zaveck was to become the Ring champion then it would be a farce. But they will not. They will become a belt holder, a titlist, holding one of the 4 recognised belts.

This is entirely correct.

The problem is as I have stated before, some fans have an impossibly archaic view of what each belt represents. Winning a belt doesn't mean you are the best in the division, how can it, when there are three other belts. It just means you are one of the top 4 (ideal world). To know a fighters real ranking you turn to Ring magazine's rankings, and eventually if a fighter unifies they may end up as the Ring champion, and get a Ring belt presented to them. This is an honour that doesn't often happen as it's not easy to become a Ring champ.

There really isn't a whole lot wrong with the system, just many fans seem incapable of understanding it.

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I agree that the ring belt is the most legit belt out there and their ranking are usually spot on. But to say there is nothing wrong with the system when we have WBC silver, emeritus, and diamond champs. And WBA regular and super champs is just crazy to me. I guess i really don't have a problem with these two guys fighting each other, my beef is more with all the damn straps.

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Originally Posted by boxingbantz

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

Damn right I don't care were Berto is ranked he should have to fight some guys to get back to a title shot. There are guys in the rankings who have been there for years and haven't had a title shot give those guys a chance. Thats how new stars are made! Who cares if its not on HBO it should be a bout being fair and to come of a title shot to get another when there are fighters who wont ever get a title shot is not just.

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Spot on.

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If he's spot on then name all the available contenders who have been waiting for years for their title shot?

Do you even know who is in the welterweight division right now? :confused:

These poor guys that have been passed over don't even exist, they are a part of your imagination.

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Originally Posted by MMASUX

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by MMASUX

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I agree with this. If a fighter is not getting a rematch, #3 or lower sounds good. I don't understand the reasoning of getting a immediate title shot. We might as well give Pascal and David Haye a title shot again as well in their next fight back. The root of this problem is all the damn belts in the first place, if there wasn't so mant belts these guys wouldn't be getting a immediate "title" shot again. Get rid of most of the belts and we get rid of the problem.

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Actually the problem is your misunderstanding of what the belts are. There are 4 major belts in each weightclass. Therefore by fighting for one, in an ideal world the winner will be one of the 4 best fighters at that weight class.

The Ring rankings meanwhile have more real significance, with the Ring champion of each division being recognised as number in that division, most often there is no Ring champion at a weight class, as it requires unifying the belts.

So at welter, both Manny and Ortiz, the top two welters hold belts. Berto is rated number 3. Therefore he SHOULD be fighting for a belt for boxing to be fair and consistent. Surely the best and highest rated fighters should be getting the title shots.

He's fighting for Zaveck's strap, not for the Ring championship. If the winner of Berto Zaveck was to become the Ring champion then it would be a farce. But they will not. They will become a belt holder, a titlist, holding one of the 4 recognised belts.

This is entirely correct.

The problem is as I have stated before, some fans have an impossibly archaic view of what each belt represents. Winning a belt doesn't mean you are the best in the division, how can it, when there are three other belts. It just means you are one of the top 4 (ideal world). To know a fighters real ranking you turn to Ring magazine's rankings, and eventually if a fighter unifies they may end up as the Ring champion, and get a Ring belt presented to them. This is an honour that doesn't often happen as it's not easy to become a Ring champ.

There really isn't a whole lot wrong with the system, just many fans seem incapable of understanding it.

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I agree that the ring belt is the most legit belt out there and their ranking are usually spot on. But to say there is nothing wrong with the system when we have WBC silver, emeritus, and diamond champs. And WBA regular and super champs is just crazy to me. I guess i really don't have a problem with these two guys fighting each other, my beef is more with all the damn straps.

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I agree the diamond belts suck and are just ridiculous. But this is absolutely a great fight that is good for boxing that it got made. As I keep saying, the Ring no 3 against the Ring no 4, the top rated guys are fighting each other which is what boxing should be about.

This thread is so misguided it's untrue.

Why should Zaveck be denied his chance as champion, to fight the top rated guy, on the biggest stage, and make his American HBO debut? Isn't that what we want champions to do, to fight the best opposition?

No saying this relates to you, but I just think that a big part of the problem of boxing is idiot fans who have no idea what they are talking about and just moan and gripe about everything.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If he's spot on then name all the available contenders who have been waiting for years for their title shot?

Do you even know who is in the welterweight division right now? :confused:

These poor guys that have been passed over don't even exist, they are a part of your imagination.

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Here are the rankings for the IBF. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see people RANKED get a title shot. That being the whole point of them (are as we are led to believe)...

1 NOT RATED
2 Randall Bailey United States
3 Mike Jones United States
4 Sebastian Lujuan Argentina
5 Rafal Jackiwicz Poland
6 Hector Saldivia Argentina
7 Said Ouali United States
8 Isaac Hlatshwayo South Africa
9 Wale Omotoso Australia
10 Andre Berto United States
11 Paul Malignaggi United States
12 Carson Jones United States
13 Shawn Porter United States
14 Diego Gabriel Chaves Argentina
15 Naoufel Ben Rabeh Tunisia

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by MMASUX

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I agree with this. If a fighter is not getting a rematch, #3 or lower sounds good. I don't understand the reasoning of getting a immediate title shot. We might as well give Pascal and David Haye a title shot again as well in their next fight back. The root of this problem is all the damn belts in the first place, if there wasn't so mant belts these guys wouldn't be getting a immediate "title" shot again. Get rid of most of the belts and we get rid of the problem.

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Actually the problem is your misunderstanding of what the belts are. There are 4 major belts in each weightclass. Therefore by fighting for one, in an ideal world the winner will be one of the 4 best fighters at that weight class.

The Ring rankings meanwhile have more real significance, with the Ring champion of each division being recognised as number in that division, most often there is no Ring champion at a weight class, as it requires unifying the belts.

So at welter, both Manny and Ortiz, the top two welters hold belts. Berto is rated number 3. Therefore he SHOULD be fighting for a belt for boxing to be fair and consistent. Surely the best and highest rated fighters should be getting the title shots.

He's fighting for Zaveck's strap, not for the Ring championship. If the winner of Berto Zaveck was to become the Ring champion then it would be a farce. But they will not. They will become a belt holder, a titlist, holding one of the 4 recognised belts.

This is entirely correct.

The problem is as I have stated before, some fans have an impossibly archaic view of what each belt represents. Winning a belt doesn't mean you are the best in the division, how can it, when there are three other belts. It just means you are one of the top 4 (ideal world). To know a fighters real ranking you turn to Ring magazine's rankings, and eventually if a fighter unifies they may end up as the Ring champion, and get a Ring belt presented to them. This is an honour that doesn't often happen as it's not easy to become a Ring champ.

There really isn't a whole lot wrong with the system, just many fans seem incapable of understanding it.

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There is a TON wrong with this sytem.

1. Calling beltholders "champions" devalues the meaning of the word champion. What Sergio Martinez is and what Saul Alvarez is are not remotely comparable;
2. Having multiple beltholders in each division prevents the casual fan from quickly identifying the top fighter
3. Casual fans being unable to quickly identify top fighters prevents fighters from becoming household names.
4. Having only 1-2 household names at a time in the sport damages it. There needs to be 8-10 household names. How does on create that? Well a major step would be to simplify the "championship" identification
5. Belts PREVENT big fights from being made.
6. Beltholders are routinely recategorized to create yet more beltholders. Now Bradley's belt is being taken so Erik Morales has a chance to win a strap. While I have great respect for Terrible? This is a sham, one of just many examples.

Do not see these titles as world champions, more just getting in line to be the number 1 or to fight the number 1 in the division. Eric Morales may fight for a strap but no one will consider him the best at the weight unless you are Sulliman.

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Originally Posted by boxingbantz

Here are the rankings for the IBF. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see people RANKED get a title shot. That being the whole point of them (are as we are led to believe)...

1 NOT RATED
2 Randall Bailey United States
3 Mike Jones United States
4 Sebastian Lujuan Argentina
5 Rafal Jackiwicz Poland
6 Hector Saldivia Argentina
7 Said Ouali United States
8 Isaac Hlatshwayo South Africa
9 Wale Omotoso Australia
10 Andre Berto United States
11 Paul Malignaggi United States
12 Carson Jones United States
13 Shawn Porter United States
14  Diego Gabriel Chaves Argentina
15 Naoufel Ben Rabeh Tunisia

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So you would rather see Randall Bailey (who I'm a fan of) get a shot than the 4th best 147lber in the world? Randall Bailey whose eliminator with Said Ouali ended in a no contest after Bailey accidentaly threw Ouali out of the ring? I mean surely a guy who lost a close FOTY candidate is a better choice.

I mean apart from arguably Mike Jones, there is no one else you can make an argument for being more worthy there? As I said Bailey/Ouali ended in a NC, Bailey hasn't fought since & Ouali has only beaten a journeyman. Saldivia who Ouali KO'd in a round is bizarrely rated above him after beating some Argentine marks.

Lujan has beaten Melligen, but not enough that he should be ahead of Berto. Hlatshwayo has already lost to Zaveck, but is still below Ben Rabeh who KO'd him a while back. Jackiewicz has also been beaten by Zaveck.

That leaves Omotoso, who is not really beyond local prospect level, & Jones. Jones is a decent choice & another top 10 fighter, however he's not so desperate for the shot & it appears is being lined by Top Rank for a fight on the Pacquiao-Marquez undercard.

I mean Zaveck is fighting the best guy available & this is a great fight in the welterweight division. The lineal champion is fighting the #2 ranked contender, the #1 ranked contender is facing the lineal lightweight champ & now we get #3 vs #4. This is what boxing should be, not guys earning less money so they can face a procession of alphabet commission approved losers.

I mean, who had a problem with Sergio Martinez facing the lineal champion at MW, having come off a draw & a loss?

I can't believe I'm writing this, but Bilbo is a 100% right.

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Originally Posted by Master

Do not see these titles as world champions, more just getting in line to be the number 1 or to fight the number 1 in the division. Eric Morales may fight for a strap but no one will consider him the best at the weight unless you are Sulliman.

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But if the bold is the point then the bels just confuse the matter. Use Ring rankings instead. Plus the belts today are an impediment to getting a division's pecking order cleaned up. These organizations prevent good fights from being made by threatening to strip fighters.

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Originally Posted by boxingbantz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If he's spot on then name all the available contenders who have been waiting for years for their title shot?

Do you even know who is in the welterweight division right now? :confused:

These poor guys that have been passed over don't even exist, they are a part of your imagination.

---

Here are the rankings for the IBF. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see people RANKED get a title shot. That being the whole point of them (are as we are led to believe)...

1 NOT RATED
2 Randall Bailey United States
3 Mike Jones United States
4 Sebastian Lujuan Argentina
5 Rafal Jackiwicz Poland
6 Hector Saldivia Argentina
7 Said Ouali United States
8 Isaac Hlatshwayo South Africa
9 Wale Omotoso Australia
10 Andre Berto United States
11 Paul Malignaggi United States
12 Carson Jones United States
13 Shawn Porter United States
14  Diego Gabriel Chaves Argentina
15 Naoufel Ben Rabeh Tunisia

---

Sorry, let me just be clear on what I think you are saying?

You think boxing has more legitimacy, and is more credible if Randall Bailey or Sebastion Lujon were to be a world champion than Andre Berto?

Fuck me sideways, the mindset of an internet boxing fan is something I will NEVER understand. :-\

I can only assume you guys don't actually follow the sport at all and have no idea about these guys other than grabbing a link from a website.

Berto a world class, top level championship calibre fighter and you think it serves boxing better to give a journeyman a shot at a title instead?

You are a mentalist. ;D

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

---

I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters. Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?

No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.

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Originally Posted by TheMacMagician

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

---

I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters. Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?

No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.

---

ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.

I just can't understand the rationale.

I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMacMagician

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

---

I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters. Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?

No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.

---

ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.

I just can't understand the rationale.

I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\

---

Dead right. In this case, as much as I don't like Berto and his huggy style, there isn't anyone better. Although, at that stage it may have been good to see Mike Jones vs Andre Berto, would have been a better fight than against Zaveck, but I'll still be happy to watch a Berto vs Zaveck match-up.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boxingbantz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If he's spot on then name all the available contenders who have been waiting for years for their title shot?

Do you even know who is in the welterweight division right now? :confused:

These poor guys that have been passed over don't even exist, they are a part of your imagination.

---

Here are the rankings for the IBF. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see people RANKED get a title shot. That being the whole point of them (are as we are led to believe)...

1 NOT RATED
2 Randall Bailey United States
3 Mike Jones United States
4 Sebastian Lujuan Argentina
5 Rafal Jackiwicz Poland
6 Hector Saldivia Argentina
7 Said Ouali United States
8 Isaac Hlatshwayo South Africa
9 Wale Omotoso Australia
10 Andre Berto United States
11 Paul Malignaggi United States
12 Carson Jones United States
13 Shawn Porter United States
14  Diego Gabriel Chaves Argentina
15 Naoufel Ben Rabeh Tunisia

---

Sorry, let me just be clear on what I think you are saying?

You think boxing has more legitimacy, and is more credible if Randall Bailey or Sebastion Lujon were to be a world champion than Andre Berto?

Fuck me sideways, the mindset of an internet boxing fan is something I will NEVER understand. :-\

I can only assume you guys don't actually follow the sport at all and have no idea about these guys other than grabbing a link from a website.

Berto a world class, top level championship calibre fighter and you think it serves boxing better to give a journeyman a shot at a title instead?

You are a mentalist. ;D

---

If Berto is world class then he can WORK his way back to a title thats how ranking should be. You get your shot at the champ or defend you strip and if you lose you go DOWN the ranking and have to work you way up. If we were to just give former champions title shots then there would never be any new fighters coming through into the lime light.

Your starting to sound like the WBA with there love triangle of Ruiz, Valuev, Barrett.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMacMagician

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

---

I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters. Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?

No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.

---

ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.

I just can't understand the rationale.

I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\

---

The best thing for boxing is to ignore the alphabet belts entirely and to embrace good fights and ridicule bad ones being disguised as good fights. ;)

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMacMagician

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

---

I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters. Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?

No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.

---

ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.

I just can't understand the rationale.

I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\

---

The best thing for boxing is to ignore the alphabet belts entirely and to embrace good fights and ridicule bad ones being disguised as good fights. ;)

---

Glad to see you've come around to my way of thinking.

The quality of fight is FAR more important than any title attached to it.

I dont think it is BS. Berto is a talented young fighter with one loss coming off a great performance against Ortiz. The guy has a fan friendly style.

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Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by boxingbantz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

If he's spot on then name all the available contenders who have been waiting for years for their title shot?

Do you even know who is in the welterweight division right now? :confused:

These poor guys that have been passed over don't even exist, they are a part of your imagination.

---

Here are the rankings for the IBF. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see people RANKED get a title shot. That being the whole point of them (are as we are led to believe)...

1 NOT RATED
2 Randall Bailey United States
3 Mike Jones United States
4 Sebastian Lujuan Argentina
5 Rafal Jackiwicz Poland
6 Hector Saldivia Argentina
7 Said Ouali United States
8 Isaac Hlatshwayo South Africa
9 Wale Omotoso Australia
10 Andre Berto United States
11 Paul Malignaggi United States
12 Carson Jones United States
13 Shawn Porter United States
14  Diego Gabriel Chaves Argentina
15 Naoufel Ben Rabeh Tunisia

---

Sorry, let me just be clear on what I think you are saying?

You think boxing has more legitimacy, and is more credible if Randall Bailey or Sebastion Lujon were to be a world champion than Andre Berto?

Fuck me sideways, the mindset of an internet boxing fan is something I will NEVER understand. :-\

I can only assume you guys don't actually follow the sport at all and have no idea about these guys other than grabbing a link from a website.

Berto a world class, top level championship calibre fighter and you think it serves boxing better to give a journeyman a shot at a title instead?

You are a mentalist. ;D

---

If Berto is world class then he can WORK his way back to a title thats how ranking should be. You get your shot at the champ or defend you strip and if you lose you go DOWN the ranking and have to work you way up. If we were to just give former champions title shots then there would never be any new fighters coming through into the lime light.

Your starting to sound like the WBA with there love triangle of Ruiz, Valuev, Barrett.

---

If you are a challenger and lose then fair enough you would have a point. But Berto was a champion with 5 defenses already to his credit.

Top championship level fighters should be fighting for championships. our rules make no sense whatsover.

I presume you were also opposed to the following matchups.

Sergio Martinez fighting for the middleweight championship after a draw and a loss. He drew with Cintron, then lost to Paul Williams then fought Pavlik for the world title. Despite being considered by majority consent as one of the top 2 p4p fighters in the world you regard him as a phony champion I presume?

Juan Manuel Marquez lost every round to Flotd Mayweather then fought a lightweight title rematch against Juan Diaz. A travesty I'm sure you will agree.

Carl Froch lost his title against Kessler, then won it back in his very next fight against Artur Abraham. Surely Sakio Bika or Allen Green should have a had a shot :confused:

Matthew Macklin just lost to Felix Sturm in Germany. They are going to fight a rematch. Again dead wrong, Macklin lost he should fuck off.

Lets go back a bit and look at some more famous histroical fights...

George Foreman loses a title challenge to Tommy Morrison, then gets an immediate second shot to Michael Moorer. He made history by becoming the oldest champion in boxing history but that should never have been allowed to happen.

Roberto Duran lost a world title fight to Marvin Hagler then fought for another against Thomas Hearns in his next fight and lost that too! Waste of space.

Hearns himself was knocked out in 3 rounds by Iran Barkley and fought for another title in his next fight.

Ray Robinson lost a bunch of world title fights against Turpin, Fulmner, Bobo Olsen and was always given an immediate shot at redemption. Should never have happened.

Your point of view is skewed and bizarre. You'd rather a journeyman had a chance to win a world title than the 3 rd rated fighter in the division, whose last fight was a fight of the year contender barnburner and is a former world champ just about to enter his physical prime?

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by TheMacMagician

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

---

I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters. Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?

No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.

---

ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.

I just can't understand the rationale.

I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\

---

The best thing for boxing is to ignore the alphabet belts entirely and to embrace good fights and ridicule bad ones being disguised as good fights. ;)

---

Glad to see you've come around to my way of thinking.

The quality of fight is FAR more important than any title attached to it.

---

Nope. The quality of the fight is more important than any ALPHABET TITLE attached to it.

Legitimate championship fights are always the top of the food chain in the sport.

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by TheMacMagician

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Ant Live

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

---

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

---

I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters. Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?

No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.

---

ha and that's the biggest irony of all. When Berto fights Zaveck he will likely be a huge betting favourite to win as he's one of the very best fighters in the weight class. People on here though seem to think it's more credible for boxing to give a guy like Randall Bailey or Lujon a shot, guys that Berto would despatch easily because they somehow make more legitmate world champs.

I just can't understand the rationale.

I would think that the best thing for boxing is that the best fighters get to fight for and win the world title belts. But apparantly not :-\

---

The best thing for boxing is to ignore the alphabet belts entirely and to embrace good fights and ridicule bad ones being disguised as good fights. ;)

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Glad to see you've come around to my way of thinking.

The quality of fight is FAR more important than any title attached to it.

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Nope. The quality of the fight is more important than any ALPHABET TITLE attached to it.

Legitimate championship fights are always the top of the food chain in the sport.

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That's right.

60-yead-old George Foreman vs Lou 'journeyman' Savarese is far more significant in the history of boxing than Holyfield-Bowe, Holyfield-Tyson, because it was for the lineal title. Hilarious.

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Originally Posted by boxingbantz

Lou DiBella has confirmed it.

It's fucking bullshit. Coming off of a loss and straight into another title shot for another belt.

I swear, I couldn't care less if they just took away all of the belts in boxing. They have become a mockery.

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Simple. When a fighter is annointed the next great "_____" hope.... the networks will push that agenda until the guy gets some kind of belt. Rankings and win-loss records be damned.

Berto only has lost once not like this happens every day hey Tito do think Lopez should get another title shot i mean he lost to a guy with fucking 11 loses and was and also got koed in the fight.