More bulls**t!! Andre Berto has a title shot vs Jan Zaveck on September 24th

[Spicoli]

I'm more pissed that it'll undoubtedly be a headliner on HBO. Berto is an unfinished product rushed to market fed to the fans and needs to get off the air for awhile and refine his game...he can start with bending his knees.

[Kev]

I'm more pissed that it'll undoubtedly be a headliner on HBO. Berto is an unfinished product rushed to market fed to the fans and needs to get off the air for awhile and refine his game...he can start with bending his knees.

I hope it's a headliner on HBO! Don't you want to see this?

I just don't understand the criticisms. You want him to go away and refine his game? He defended his world title 5 times. What bigger star do you wish to replace him with?

The only other establsihed star in the division is Shane Mosley, but I imagine there would be an even bigger outcry were he to fight Zaveck.

So if not Berto and Mosley, who should Zaveck fight so that boxing remains credible and just?

Have a look at the rankings and find the guy that Berto needs to get out of the way for?

Berto is being matched for an immediate title shot because by universal concsent he the best welterweight after Manny and Ortiz right now. It's the right fight.

I presume boxingbantz believes the title shot should go to either Vjacheslav Senchenko or Rafal Jaciewicz as they are the next highest rated guys, both below Berto however.

Well lets assume they match Senchenko or Jaciewicz with Zaveck. Where are you going to watch this fight? It's not going to be picked up by an American network, I doubt even Bob Sheridan would be covering it. It would be an obscure German fight on Eurosport, that none of us would see, unless you wanted to watch a foreign stream.

So we give a weaker opponent, with no name at all a shot at a world title on a foreign channel that nobody will see, just to avoid the injustice of the worlds third best welterweight fighting for a title again just after losing his own in his sixth defence.

[Spicoli]

You act as if they would even spell Zavecks name correctly if it wasn't for the flawed Berto having him imported to a grand stage in hopes of grabbing a trinket, again being marketed as "Champion" to then push Berto into a huge HBO fight again, that he wont win, again. Berto ain't beating Pac nor Mayweather. You don't have to read ratings or drink the kool aid to know that.

Berto is a very flawed fighter and if Zaveck beats him I wouldnt be suprised if Zaveck goes the way of Pirog....poof.

[Kev]

You act as if they would even spell Zavecks name correctly if it wasn't for the flawed Berto having him imported to a grand stage in hopes of grabbing a trinket, again being marketed as "Champion" to then push Berto into a huge HBO fight again, that he wont win, again. Berto ain't beating Pac nor Mayweather. You don't have to read ratings or drink the kool aid to know that.

Berto is a very flawed fighter and if Zaveck beats him I wouldnt be suprised if Zaveck goes the way of Pirog....poof.

I'm not saying he isn't a flawed fighter. I'# just saying he's clearly the most common sense opponent for Zaveck? Have you ever watched Zaveck fight? I'm guessing most of us haven't and that he himself will be relishing the opportunity to fight in America, probably on HBO in the most high profile fight of his career, against Ring magazines number 3 welterweight, and a former world champion himself.

The idea that this fight makes a mockery of boxing as boxingbantz believes is just ludicrous. It would be a mockery if they tried to give the title shot to somebody else.

Clearly Berto is the best opponent that Zaveck can face given that the only two higher rated boxers in the division than him are Pacquaio and Ortiz. Zaveck is not nearly a big enough name to tempt either of them to fight so he's going for the next best thing, in Andre Berto.

How is this a bad matchup? Who should Zaveck be fighting that would make this less of a mockery

This thread is just such a bizarre and unjustified criticism. It's the best possible fight that could have been made and I am excited to see it.

[Kev]

As for Dimitry Pirog he actually proves why the Berto Zaveck matchup is a good one!

Since beating Danny Jacob Pirog has returned to fight in his native Russia, which according to you means he has disappeared and is no longer relevant. Why isn't he? Because he isn't fighting in America on HBO or Showtime?

Exactly my point!


If Berto doesn't get the shot because he's not worthy than Zaveck fights in Germany or Russia himself which to us is the equivilant of not existing.


So how then is Berto the wrong choice for him?

If he fights any of the other challengers it will be on Eurosport in Russian or German. And this is better for boxing apparently?

[mattboxingfan]

I'm more pissed that it'll undoubtedly be a headliner on HBO. Berto is an unfinished product rushed to market fed to the fans and needs to get off the air for awhile and refine his game...he can start with bending his knees.

I hope it's a headliner on HBO! Don't you want to see this?

I just don't understand the criticisms. You want him to go away and refine his game? He defended his world title 5 times. What bigger star do you wish to replace him with?

The only other establsihed star in the division is Shane Mosley, but I imagine there would be an even bigger outcry were he to fight Zaveck.

So if not Berto and Mosley, who should Zaveck fight so that boxing remains credible and just?

Have a look at the rankings and find the guy that Berto needs to get out of the way for?

Berto is being matched for an immediate title shot because by universal concsent he the best welterweight after Manny and Ortiz right now. It's the right fight.

I presume boxingbantz believes the title shot should go to either Vjacheslav Senchenko or Rafal Jaciewicz as they are the next highest rated guys, both below Berto however.

Well lets assume they match Senchenko or Jaciewicz with Zaveck. Where are you going to watch this fight? It's not going to be picked up by an American network, I doubt even Bob Sheridan would be covering it. It would be an obscure German fight on Eurosport, that none of us would see, unless you wanted to watch a foreign stream.

So we give a weaker opponent, with no name at all a shot at a world title on a foreign channel that nobody will see, just to avoid the injustice of the worlds third best welterweight fighting for a title again just after losing his own in his sixth defence.

Damn right I don't care were Berto is ranked he should have to fight some guys to get back to a title shot. There are guys in the rankings who have been there for years and haven't had a title shot give those guys a chance. Thats how new stars are made! Who cares if its not on HBO it should be a bout being fair and to come of a title shot to get another when there are fighters who wont ever get a title shot is not just.

[erics44]

whats the problem?

he had a decent reign, lost a close fight when he lost his title

why doesnt he deserve an immediate chance?

did hopkins deserve a rematch with taylor? or taylor with pavlik? did martinez deserve the world title fight with pavlik after a loss? or mosley with de la hoya?

sure this isnt just something else to complain about?

[Ant Live]

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

[MMASUX]

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

I agree with this. If a fighter is not getting a rematch, #3 or lower sounds good. I don't understand the reasoning of getting a immediate title shot. We might as well give Pascal and David Haye a title shot again as well in their next fight back. The root of this problem is all the damn belts in the first place, if there wasn't so mant belts these guys wouldn't be getting a immediate "title" shot again. Get rid of most of the belts and we get rid of the problem.

[Kev]

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.
Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

I agree with this. If a fighter is not getting a rematch, #3 or lower sounds good. I don't understand the reasoning of getting a immediate title shot. We might as well give Pascal and David Haye a title shot again as well in their next fight back. The root of this problem is all the damn belts in the first place, if there wasn't so mant belts these guys wouldn't be getting a immediate "title" shot again. Get rid of most of the belts and we get rid of the problem.

Actually the problem is your misunderstanding of what the belts are. There are 4 major belts in each weightclass. Therefore by fighting for one, in an ideal world the winner will be one of the 4 best fighters at that weight class.

The Ring rankings meanwhile have more real significance, with the Ring champion of each division being recognised as number in that division, most often there is no Ring champion at a weight class, as it requires unifying the belts.

So at welter, both Manny and Ortiz, the top two welters hold belts. Berto is rated number 3. Therefore he SHOULD be fighting for a belt for boxing to be fair and consistent. Surely the best and highest rated fighters should be getting the title shots.

He's fighting for Zaveck's strap, not for the Ring championship. If the winner of Berto Zaveck was to become the Ring champion then it would be a farce. But they will not. They will become a belt holder, a titlist, holding one of the 4 recognised belts.

This is entirely correct.

The problem is as I have stated before, some fans have an impossibly archaic view of what each belt represents. Winning a belt doesn't mean you are the best in the division, how can it, when there are three other belts. It just means you are one of the top 4 (ideal world). To know a fighters real ranking you turn to Ring magazine's rankings, and eventually if a fighter unifies they may end up as the Ring champion, and get a Ring belt presented to them. This is an honour that doesn't often happen as it's not easy to become a Ring champ.

There really isn't a whole lot wrong with the system, just many fans seem incapable of understanding it.

[Kev]

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

[TheMacMagician]

Good for Berto and his team for getting this fight. But IMO, if a fighter lose in a championship fight, if there's no rematch, he should have to work his way back up to a title shot. Maybe automatically dropping their ranking to 3. In which if the champion fight his mandatory #1, the he should or have to fight the #2 guy for a possible title shot.

Saying that, if Berto win, his next fight will be high profile.
1. A rematch with Ortiz whether he lose to Mayweather or pull off the upset. FOY2
2. Mayweather whether he win or lose. MONEY!!!
3. Bradley?
4. Khan?

I could agree with you if the fighter who lost the championship fight was a challenger but Berto wasn't. He was the defending champion and it was his sixth world title defence.

How many times in a row do you have to win world championship fights in your eyes to be worth an immediate shot at another when you lose your title in a highly competitive, fight of the year contender.

Berto is still the third best welterweight according to Ring magazine. Higher than Zaveck. This is the best possible matchup.

What I find so ironic is that when Saul Alvarez announced he was fighting Alfonso Gomez people said that was bullshit and he should fight a real contender. Hilariously someone even said he should have fought Sechew Powell or Cory Spinks, despite Spinks having lost 3 of his last 4 and both Spinks and Powell losing world championship challenges in their last fight.

If Zaveck doesn't fight Berto he has to fight an unknown, unproven contender who has done nothing themsleves to deserve a title shot.

When the Ring number 4 defends his belt against the Ring number 3, with 2 and 1 already signed to other fights, this represents the best boxing matchup available.

And as I said at the start, Berto wasn't a guy who lost his title challenge, he was a legit champion who had already defended the belt 5 times when he lost. Of course he deserves an immediate shot at another belt, and to suggest he doesn't shows an astonishing lack of knowledge of boxing history where such a thing is standard practice, and rightly so, we want the best fighters fighting the best fights.

I think this is a great fight, and should be a decent show. Not sure about the belt on the line, but hey, belts don't make the fighters. Hopefully they will put up a good show and Zaveck will make a good account of himself. I remember exchanging some messages with Randall Bailey earlier in the year and he was certain he was matching up with Zaveck this summer. Is he not with Lou DiBella too?

No way is this fight anything like the JOKE that is Alvarez vs Gomez. No way in hell Gomez should be there. Berto vs Zaveck is a good fight though IMO.

[boxingbantz]

Damn right I don't care were Berto is ranked he should have to fight some guys to get back to a title shot. There are guys in the rankings who have been there for years and haven't had a title shot give those guys a chance. Thats how new stars are made! Who cares if its not on HBO it should be a bout being fair and to come of a title shot to get another when there are fighters who wont ever get a title shot is not just.

Spot on.

[Kev]

Damn right I don't care were Berto is ranked he should have to fight some guys to get back to a title shot. There are guys in the rankings who have been there for years and haven't had a title shot give those guys a chance. Thats how new stars are made! Who cares if its not on HBO it should be a bout being fair and to come of a title shot to get another when there are fighters who wont ever get a title shot is not just.

Spot on.

If he's spot on then name all the available contenders who have been waiting for years for their title shot?

Do you even know who is in the welterweight division right now?

These poor guys that have been passed over don't even exist, they are a part of your imagination.

[boxingbantz]

If he's spot on then name all the available contenders who have been waiting for years for their title shot?

Do you even know who is in the welterweight division right now?

These poor guys that have been passed over don't even exist, they are a part of your imagination.

Here are the rankings for the IBF. Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to see people RANKED get a title shot. That being the whole point of them (are as we are led to believe)...

1 NOT RATED
2 Randall Bailey United States
3 Mike Jones United States
4 Sebastian Lujuan Argentina
5 Rafal Jackiwicz Poland
6 Hector Saldivia Argentina
7 Said Ouali United States
8 Isaac Hlatshwayo South Africa
9 Wale Omotoso Australia
10 Andre Berto United States
11 Paul Malignaggi United States
12 Carson Jones United States
13 Shawn Porter United States
14 Diego Gabriel Chaves Argentina
15 Naoufel Ben Rabeh Tunisia