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Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
bear with me I haven't read any of the threads. I also watched the fight with the sound off (except between rounds) and i didn't watch any of the post fight stuff. Has there EVER been a more dismal pair of broadcasters than Gus Johnson and Jim Gray?
Anyway.
-I had it 6-6 in rounds so with the two knockdowns I had it 114-112.
-I thought the Mares corner made a nearly catastrophic error between rounds 2-3 telling Abner NOT to pressure Agbeko as hard as he had been. That let Agbeko back into a fight Mares was dominating.
-Mares, as good as his left hand is, fought nearly one handed. A mistake in my view. But his handspeed advantage helped.
-I thought both knockdowns were really questionable. The first one really looked like a slip was the better call and the second was an obviously low blow.
-Time to get to something I generally loathe talking about. Poor refereeing. Russel Mora had a really rough night. I generally am really sympathetic to low blows being originated by the recipient pulling down on the puncher's head. But that's just not what I saw. Mares landed, by my count, 473 low blows. I could not believe no points were taken by about round six. Mora had warned him what? 7-8 times by then?
-Agbeko had to feel like he was being disadvantaged every way possible. Yet he did nothing about it. He should have.
-Agbeko was his usual sturdy and tough self. But he's just a trace less athletic than Mares and he just didn't come on eraly enough to win a seventh round in my view.
Good, tough pro fight and I have no problem with the fighter's efforts, skills or the judging. The refereeing was weak. lastly, did it seem to anyone else that Nonito Donaire is maybe two cuts above either man who fought tonight?
My take anyway. What'd you see?
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
good post
I saw Mares winning the fight , even if he had a 2 point deduction , and the second knockdown being called a low blow.
Mares was the better fighter simply, altought the referee was unfair to Agbeko, Mares still presented more skill and talent
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
damn, i really wanted to see this fight!
but my evil golddigger of a stepmom ruined that for me.
i heard mares fouled like A MOFO! AND MY BOY AGBEKO WAS DISSED AND DONE WRONG!! Hello!!!!! its bad enough his uncle IKE QUARTEY was robbed against de lehoya, but agbeko is to be robbed too?
in the same fashion?
BULLSHIT!!!!!!
im american and i see whats wrong with this!
corruption! a bought and paid for ref!!!!!
how many low blows did mares have??
FUCK DAT!!!!!!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
gest12645
good post
I saw Mares winning the fight , even if he had a 2 point deduction , and the second knockdown being called a low blow.
Mares was the better fighter simply, altought the referee was unfair to Agbeko, Mares still presented more skill and talent
See this is what makes this referee's performance so unfortunate because you can't say how this fight turns out if he takes points. Mares was given a pass to attack the body without discretion when he wasn't penalized for the numerous low blows. Who knows how this fight changes on that alone. Also another thing that no one has mentioned is the effect it had to have on Agbeko MENTALLY! He showed true heart but fighting two people had to weight on him so to say that Mares was simply the better fighter is not a fair assessment........oh yeah, not to mention the physical impact the low blows had on Agbeko
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I give abeko huge props . Let someone hit you in the balls twenty times and then ask you to do your job even If you're a greeter at wal mart . And they wonder why no one watches . While mma is sold out . But who cares football is back lol
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chinchekked
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gest12645
good post
I saw Mares winning the fight , even if he had a 2 point deduction , and the second knockdown being called a low blow.
Mares was the better fighter simply, altought the referee was unfair to Agbeko, Mares still presented more skill and talent
See this is what makes this referee's performance so unfortunate because you can't say how this fight turns out if he takes points. Mares was given a pass to attack the body without discretion when he wasn't penalized for the numerous low blows. Who knows how this fight changes on that alone. Also another thing that no one has mentioned is the effect it had to have on Agbeko MENTALLY! He showed true heart but fighting two people had to weight on him so to say that Mares was simply the better fighter is not a fair assessment........oh yeah, not to mention the physical impact the low blows had on Agbeko
this is why the fight will be controversial no matter what. I still think Mares is the better fighter based on the fight. He was better simply. ( low blows werent as bad as they seemed- they deserved penelty- but werent very painfull as we saw Agbeko react. He wasnt in pain. ) Mares woudlve won without these fouls- my point:)
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I get it but the point I am trying to convey is that there r too many variables that come with low blows to make that assessment
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
bear with me I haven't read any of the threads. I also watched the fight with the sound off (except between rounds) and i didn't watch any of the post fight stuff. Has there EVER been a more dismal pair of broadcasters than Gus Johnson and Jim Gray?
Anyway.
-I had it 6-6 in rounds so with the two knockdowns I had it 114-112.
-I thought the Mares corner made a nearly catastrophic error between rounds 2-3 telling Abner NOT to pressure Agbeko as hard as he had been. That let Agbeko back into a fight Mares was dominating.
-Mares, as good as his left hand is, fought nearly one handed. A mistake in my view. But his handspeed advantage helped.
-I thought both knockdowns were really questionable. The first one really looked like a slip was the better call and the second was an obviously low blow.
-Time to get to something I generally loathe talking about. Poor refereeing. Russel Mora had a really rough night. I generally am really sympathetic to low blows being originated by the recipient pulling down on the puncher's head. But that's just not what I saw. Mares landed, by my count, 473 low blows. I could not believe no points were taken by about round six. Mora had warned him what? 7-8 times by then?
-Agbeko had to feel like he was being disadvantaged every way possible. Yet he did nothing about it. He should have.
-Agbeko was his usual sturdy and tough self. But he's just a trace less athletic than Mares and he just didn't come on eraly enough to win a seventh round in my view.
Good, tough pro fight and I have no problem with the fighter's efforts, skills or the judging. The refereeing was weak. lastly, did it seem to anyone else that Nonito Donaire is maybe two cuts above either man who fought tonight?
My take anyway. What'd you see?
Really enjoyed the fight and have the same feelings regards the ref. I was just waiting for him to deduct Agbeko for holding the head, that woulda been the icing on the cake. Good fight thought, I say rematch.
I also think Donaire takes both these guys too, if he decides to fight that is and not sit on the sidelines. Twice now Donaire has lost ALL his momentum after a sensational win.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
I only scored the first 10 rounds and had it 6-4 for Mares (felt like how can I even score from then on when the ref is letting a blatant low blow be called a knockdown in the 11th).
The low blows were obscene. Agbeko got drilled low so often how could it not have changed the fight?
I was happy that Mares got the win because I had bet 50 dollars on him to win, but I feel that if an immediate rematch isn't granted that would be a travesty.
Al Bernstein called it the worst ref performance he had seen in the last 15 years. Jim Gray badgered the ref in the post fight. He asked about the low blows in general and specifically the knockdown in the 11th. Mora said it was on the belt line. Then Gray had the replay of that knockdown shown as they were being interviewed. Mora said he would like to review that one again. Gray said Showtime could show the replay again and Mora started backpedalling and wasn't going to say anything else about it. He knew as soon as he saw the replay that he screwed up royally.
Abner Mares was oblivious. He said that all of them were on the beltline. I never knew a guys beltline was right on the cup. Then he said guys were always pulling his head down causing low blows, which was a response to being asked about Darchinyan and now Agbeko getting low blowed (which I saw happening on only a few of the low shots).
If you properly took a point from Mares for low blows (if not 2 with the number of ones landed) and take away the knockdown in the 11th, then I think I'd end up with a fight that is a draw. And that doesn't begin to estimate the low blows and their effect and the opponent.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gest12645
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chinchekked
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gest12645
good post
I saw Mares winning the fight , even if he had a 2 point deduction , and the second knockdown being called a low blow.
Mares was the better fighter simply, altought the referee was unfair to Agbeko, Mares still presented more skill and talent
See this is what makes this referee's performance so unfortunate because you can't say how this fight turns out if he takes points. Mares was given a pass to attack the body without discretion when he wasn't penalized for the numerous low blows. Who knows how this fight changes on that alone. Also another thing that no one has mentioned is the effect it had to have on Agbeko MENTALLY! He showed true heart but fighting two people had to weight on him so to say that Mares was simply the better fighter is not a fair assessment........oh yeah, not to mention the physical impact the low blows had on Agbeko
this is why the fight will be controversial no matter what. I still think Mares is the better fighter based on the fight. He was better simply. ( low blows werent as bad as they seemed- they deserved penelty- but werent very painfull as we saw Agbeko react. He wasnt in pain. ) Mares woudlve won without these fouls- my point:)
how do we know if Agbeko was in pain? I am not a huge Tarver fan but he is a long-time fighter and he said sitting ringside that when you get hit low that often it will have an effect on you. Despite that Agbeko arguably was winning most of the rounds over the 2nd half of the fight.
And it is easy to attack the body when not only are the body shots legal, but the borderline low shots are legal, and the clearly low shots are fine according to the ref.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
#1FightFan
damn, i really wanted to see this fight!
but my evil golddigger of a stepmom ruined that for me.
i heard mares fouled like A MOFO! AND MY BOY AGBEKO WAS DISSED AND DONE WRONG!! Hello!!!!! its bad enough his uncle IKE QUARTEY was robbed against de lehoya, but agbeko is to be robbed too?
in the same fashion?
BULLSHIT!!!!!!
im american and i see whats wrong with this!
corruption! a bought and paid for ref!!!!!
how many low blows did mares have??
FUCK DAT!!!!!!!!
i find it funny how you're always the first guy to jump on a fight and call it robbery when it doesn't go your way, i had Mares winning last night and i didn't even score the 2nd KD, he should have had a pint deductions and it probably would have made him well aware of what he was doing or at least make him think twice before pulling off yet another shot, but just as there were obvious low blows there were some that were borderline, Agbeko should protest but don't get it twisted, he should only protest the fight due to the horrible performance by the ref, the judges were more or less spot on with what was given to them, if the ref (as incompetent as he may be) calls a KD the judges are OBLIGATED to score it, and the score cards weren't all that much out of it, if anything the judge that scored the draw is the one who should be criticized, cause that would mean that they had Agbeko winning around 7 of the 12 rounds, which he didn't
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Low is low. Simple as and its not for us to pretend to imagine what should have hurt, what shifted cups, the size of his piece and what side it swings on etc. Are we being hit in the cup ,let alone the face? The ref was an insult to the sport, the fighters and reality in general. The entire 'he was pulling the head down so consequently I can understand him hacking into your jewels' 5 10 infinity times is a cop out refs fall back on. Pick a team, stop straddling the fence and excusing repetitive illegal tactics. Start docking points either way...but don't run from one to the other waving your finger like some indecisive and panicky lunch counter lady full of empty rhetoric. Guys are professionals and if your in a clinch, your head is down occasionally fight out, shift off but its NOT a free pass to neuter a dude and then be given a free pass for a bs knockdown.
I honestly think the deck was already stacked against Agbeko going in. The whole tone of it basically sounding like a final coronation of Mares by the announce team, what round might he get a ko in?!? wtf! There were subtle shifts once it warmed and as much as Mares deserved to be called on LB I also think it took some focus off how Agbeko switched gears from being rushed early on by Mares to matching and even walking Mares down at times midway. He was more effective than given credit for. You could just see body language as Mares switched to counter a bit and cut had him bothered and was taking more right hands. While not pretty he took some serious inside shots to. The LBs were serious momentum breakers and frankly I dont buy that all were mistakes, give me a break. You either train to foul or you dont train well enough to be a legit legal body puncher, or your just a wide guy with shitty body work technique. Doesn't matter 'why or how' your doing it...your doing it. End of. I think there will be a rematch as there should be. Both deserve it. Mares to come out 'clean' without questions concerning ref, calls and to show he doesn't have to smash balls to get a clear win and Agbeko because he was dealt a stacked deck. This was a quality match between quality fighter in a glory division of old that deserved better.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Here is what I saw: One of the worst refereeing hack jobs that I have ever seen. If you are going to fix a fight at least try to make it a tad believable. That was pathetic. Russell Mora now joins guys like Tilleman in the worst ref category. Mares should have been dq'd and I was cheering for him. What a disgrace. If there is any justice they will have to do this again.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
I really like Abner Mares but he could of been DQ'ed for his antics last night, he must of landed atleast 30 low blows. And the worse thing is that a clear low blow was called a knockdown an absolute disgrace.
Abner Mares was winning the early rounds, but Joseph Agbeko was coming back and could of been on the verge of stealing the decision, had that ridiculous 11th round not happened.
1 Mares 10-8
2 Mares 10-9
3 Mares 10-9
4 Agbeko 10-9
5 Mares 10-9
6 Mares 10-9
7 Agbeko 10-9
8 Mares 10-9
9 Agbeko 10-9
10 Agbeko 10-9 it should of been 10-8
11 Mares 10-8 BS though
12 Mares 10-9
That's how i had it but in reality, Joseph Agbeko should of had two 10-8 rounds. In the 10th and 11th rounds for 100 percent.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
I watched the fight a second time, this time with the sound on. Al Bernstein is usually a really, really reserved guy so it was shocking to hear just how bad he thought the events of the evening were.
Agbeko was in contact with Mares's upper body/head many of the times Mares landed low, but it looked to me like that contact was incidental only and that Agbeko was not pulling on Mares' head. Mora made terrible errors in my view by not understanding what he was seeing.
If one takes away two penalty points from Mares, a reasonable call in my view over the course of the fight, and properly calls the second knockdown a low blow, it doesn't change the judges decision. Mares still wins by a point on two cards.
Of course that fails to account for the deterrent effect that referees warnings/deductions would have had on Mares overall body attack, the clean part of which was dazzling. Nor does it account for how the low blows must have sapped Agbeko's energy.
More and more I wonder what the hell Agbeko was doing NOT retaliating. At the championship level "protect yourself at all times" doesn't just mean prevent one's self from getting hit. It means in cases like this policing the fight when the referee can't or won't. There is no question Mares was outside the lines, but Agbeko failed in a way as well.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chinchekked
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gest12645
good post
I saw Mares winning the fight , even if he had a 2 point deduction , and the second knockdown being called a low blow.
Mares was the better fighter simply, altought the referee was unfair to Agbeko, Mares still presented more skill and talent
See this is what makes this referee's performance so unfortunate because you can't say how this fight turns out if he takes points.
Mares was given a pass to attack the body without discretion when he wasn't penalized for the numerous low blows. Who knows how this fight changes on that alone. Also another thing that no one has mentioned is the effect it had to have on Agbeko MENTALLY! He showed true heart but fighting two people had to weight on him so to say that Mares was simply the better fighter is not a fair assessment........oh yeah, not to mention the physical impact the low blows had on Agbeko
Excellent point.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
captainanddew
I only scored the first 10 rounds and had it 6-4 for Mares (felt like how can I even score from then on when the ref is letting a blatant low blow be called a knockdown in the 11th).
The low blows were obscene. Agbeko got drilled low so often how could it not have changed the fight?
I was happy that Mares got the win because I had bet 50 dollars on him to win, but I feel that if an immediate rematch isn't granted that would be a travesty.
Al Bernstein called it the worst ref performance he had seen in the last 15 years. Jim Gray badgered the ref in the post fight. He asked about the low blows in general and specifically the knockdown in the 11th. Mora said it was on the belt line. Then Gray had the replay of that knockdown shown as they were being interviewed. Mora said he would like to review that one again. Gray said Showtime could show the replay again and Mora started backpedalling and wasn't going to say anything else about it. He knew as soon as he saw the replay that he screwed up royally.
Abner Mares was oblivious. He said that all of them were on the beltline. I never knew a guys beltline was right on the cup. Then he said guys were always pulling his head down causing low blows, which was a response to being asked about Darchinyan and now Agbeko getting low blowed (which I saw happening on only a few of the low shots).
If you properly took a point from Mares for low blows (if not 2 with the number of ones landed) and take away the knockdown in the 11th, then I think I'd end up with a fight that is a draw. And that doesn't begin to estimate the low blows and their effect and the opponent.
I went back and read the fight thread and you really got angry huh? Can't say I blame you. On the bold I have to agree. But I doubt it will happen.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
captainanddew
I only scored the first 10 rounds and had it 6-4 for Mares (felt like how can I even score from then on when the ref is letting a blatant low blow be called a knockdown in the 11th).
The low blows were obscene. Agbeko got drilled low so often how could it not have changed the fight?
I was happy that Mares got the win because I had bet 50 dollars on him to win, but I feel that if an immediate rematch isn't granted that would be a travesty.
Al Bernstein called it the worst ref performance he had seen in the last 15 years. Jim Gray badgered the ref in the post fight. He asked about the low blows in general and specifically the knockdown in the 11th. Mora said it was on the belt line. Then Gray had the replay of that knockdown shown as they were being interviewed. Mora said he would like to review that one again. Gray said Showtime could show the replay again and Mora started backpedalling and wasn't going to say anything else about it. He knew as soon as he saw the replay that he screwed up royally.
Abner Mares was oblivious. He said that all of them were on the beltline. I never knew a guys beltline was right on the cup. Then he said guys were always pulling his head down causing low blows, which was a response to being asked about Darchinyan and now Agbeko getting low blowed (which I saw happening on only a few of the low shots).
If you properly took a point from Mares for low blows (if not 2 with the number of ones landed) and take away the knockdown in the 11th, then I think I'd end up with a fight that is a draw. And that doesn't begin to estimate the low blows and their effect and the opponent.
I went back and read the fight thread and you really got angry huh? Can't say I blame you. On the bold I have to agree. But I doubt it will happen.
I think a rematch will be ordered within a week or two.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Low is low. Simple as and its not for us to pretend to imagine what should have hurt, what shifted cups, the size of his piece and what side it swings on etc. Are we being hit in the cup ,let alone the face? The ref was an insult to the sport, the fighters and reality in general. The entire 'he was pulling the head down so consequently I can understand him hacking into your jewels' 5 10 infinity times is a cop out refs fall back on. Pick a team, stop straddling the fence and excusing repetitive illegal tactics. Start docking points either way...but don't run from one to the other waving your finger like some indecisive and panicky lunch counter lady full of empty rhetoric. Guys are professionals and if your in a clinch, your head is down occasionally fight out, shift off but its NOT a free pass to neuter a dude and then be given a free pass for a bs knockdown.
I honestly think the deck was already stacked against Agbeko going in. The whole tone of it basically sounding like a final coronation of Mares by the announce team, what round might he get a ko in?!? wtf! There were subtle shifts once it warmed and as much as Mares deserved to be called on LB I also think it took some focus off how Agbeko switched gears from being rushed early on by Mares to matching and even walking Mares down at times midway. He was more effective than given credit for. You could just see body language as Mares switched to counter a bit and cut had him bothered and was taking more right hands. While not pretty he took some serious inside shots to. The LBs were serious momentum breakers and frankly I dont buy that all were mistakes, give me a break. You either train to foul or you dont train well enough to be a legit legal body puncher, or your just a wide guy with shitty body work technique. Doesn't matter 'why or how' your doing it...your doing it. End of. I think there will be a rematch as there should be. Both deserve it. Mares to come out 'clean' without questions concerning ref, calls and to show he doesn't have to smash balls to get a clear win and Agbeko because he was dealt a stacked deck. This was a quality match between quality fighter in a glory division of old that deserved better.
I think it is really tough to argue with either of the bold. After Mora gently chided Mares about the fourth time I thought to myself "OK, Agbeko is absolutely going to get that knockdown point back." Yet Mora kept chiding him rather than taking points. Not sure I have ever seen anything like that.
On Mares intentionality? I think there are only really two ways to see it. He was doing it intentionally OR he is a truly terrible judge of distance.
I think what we've learned about "whack-whack-whack" is he's a mean little SOB in the tradition of Eusabio Pedroza.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
In addition Russell Mora is a totally incompetent ref and had no business being their. That in and of itself warrants a rematch. He was sure quick to take a point off Pederson.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
There is no doubt in my mind that had Agbeko retaliated to the degree warranted or roles reversed he would have been dq'd. It was just that biased and referee should seriously be investigated.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I really like Abner Mares but he could of been DQ'ed for his antics last night, he must of landed atleast 30 low blows. And the worse thing is that a clear low blow was called a knockdown an absolute disgrace.
Abner Mares was winning the early rounds, but Joseph Agbeko was coming back and could of been on the verge of stealing the decision, had that ridiculous 11th round not happened.
1 Mares 10-8
2 Mares 10-9
3 Mares 10-9
4 Agbeko 10-9
5 Mares 10-9
6 Mares 10-9
7 Agbeko 10-9
8 Mares 10-9
9 Agbeko 10-9
10 Agbeko 10-9 it should of been 10-8
11 Mares 10-8 BS though
12 Mares 10-9
That's how i had it but in reality, Joseph Agbeko should of had two 10-8 rounds. In the 10th and 11th rounds for 100 percent.
One can make a pretty good argument that Mares could, and perhaps should have been penalized at least two points prior to the 11th round. Then that shot in the 11th could have made the ref call a DQ.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
captainanddew
I only scored the first 10 rounds and had it 6-4 for Mares (felt like how can I even score from then on when the ref is letting a blatant low blow be called a knockdown in the 11th).
The low blows were obscene. Agbeko got drilled low so often how could it not have changed the fight?
I was happy that Mares got the win because I had bet 50 dollars on him to win, but I feel that if an immediate rematch isn't granted that would be a travesty.
Al Bernstein called it the worst ref performance he had seen in the last 15 years. Jim Gray badgered the ref in the post fight. He asked about the low blows in general and specifically the knockdown in the 11th. Mora said it was on the belt line. Then Gray had the replay of that knockdown shown as they were being interviewed. Mora said he would like to review that one again. Gray said Showtime could show the replay again and Mora started backpedalling and wasn't going to say anything else about it. He knew as soon as he saw the replay that he screwed up royally.
Abner Mares was oblivious. He said that all of them were on the beltline. I never knew a guys beltline was right on the cup. Then he said guys were always pulling his head down causing low blows, which was a response to being asked about Darchinyan and now Agbeko getting low blowed (which I saw happening on only a few of the low shots).
If you properly took a point from Mares for low blows (if not 2 with the number of ones landed) and take away the knockdown in the 11th, then I think I'd end up with a fight that is a draw. And that doesn't begin to estimate the low blows and their effect and the opponent.
I went back and read the fight thread and you really got angry huh? Can't say I blame you. On the bold I have to agree. But I doubt it will happen.
I think a rematch will be ordered within a week or two.
Ordered by whom?
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
There is no doubt in my mind that had Agbeko retaliated to the degree warranted or roles reversed he would have been dq'd. It was just that biased and referee should seriously be investigated.
Agbeko should have taken a good low shot in the fourth round and waited no longer. THAT may well have changed both the referees and Mares' mindset about what was going on. At most it'd have cost him a point. And had Mares been given time? That would have given Agbeko time to excoriate the ref about how he was letting Agbeko be abused.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
captainanddew
I only scored the first 10 rounds and had it 6-4 for Mares (felt like how can I even score from then on when the ref is letting a blatant low blow be called a knockdown in the 11th).
The low blows were obscene. Agbeko got drilled low so often how could it not have changed the fight?
I was happy that Mares got the win because I had bet 50 dollars on him to win, but I feel that if an immediate rematch isn't granted that would be a travesty.
Al Bernstein called it the worst ref performance he had seen in the last 15 years. Jim Gray badgered the ref in the post fight. He asked about the low blows in general and specifically the knockdown in the 11th. Mora said it was on the belt line. Then Gray had the replay of that knockdown shown as they were being interviewed. Mora said he would like to review that one again. Gray said Showtime could show the replay again and Mora started backpedalling and wasn't going to say anything else about it. He knew as soon as he saw the replay that he screwed up royally.
Abner Mares was oblivious. He said that all of them were on the beltline. I never knew a guys beltline was right on the cup. Then he said guys were always pulling his head down causing low blows, which was a response to being asked about Darchinyan and now Agbeko getting low blowed (which I saw happening on only a few of the low shots).
If you properly took a point from Mares for low blows (if not 2 with the number of ones landed) and take away the knockdown in the 11th, then I think I'd end up with a fight that is a draw. And that doesn't begin to estimate the low blows and their effect and the opponent.
I went back and read the fight thread and you really got angry huh? Can't say I blame you. On the bold I have to agree. But I doubt it will happen.
I think a rematch will be ordered within a week or two.
Ordered by whom?
By one of two pimp Governing bodies that are going to be pressured to the edge of a plank.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
captainanddew
I only scored the first 10 rounds and had it 6-4 for Mares (felt like how can I even score from then on when the ref is letting a blatant low blow be called a knockdown in the 11th).
The low blows were obscene. Agbeko got drilled low so often how could it not have changed the fight?
I was happy that Mares got the win because I had bet 50 dollars on him to win, but I feel that if an immediate rematch isn't granted that would be a travesty.
Al Bernstein called it the worst ref performance he had seen in the last 15 years. Jim Gray badgered the ref in the post fight. He asked about the low blows in general and specifically the knockdown in the 11th. Mora said it was on the belt line. Then Gray had the replay of that knockdown shown as they were being interviewed. Mora said he would like to review that one again. Gray said Showtime could show the replay again and Mora started backpedalling and wasn't going to say anything else about it. He knew as soon as he saw the replay that he screwed up royally.
Abner Mares was oblivious. He said that all of them were on the beltline. I never knew a guys beltline was right on the cup. Then he said guys were always pulling his head down causing low blows, which was a response to being asked about Darchinyan and now Agbeko getting low blowed (which I saw happening on only a few of the low shots).
If you properly took a point from Mares for low blows (if not 2 with the number of ones landed) and take away the knockdown in the 11th, then I think I'd end up with a fight that is a draw. And that doesn't begin to estimate the low blows and their effect and the opponent.
I went back and read the fight thread and you really got angry huh? Can't say I blame you. On the bold I have to agree. But I doubt it will happen.
I think a rematch will be ordered within a week or two.
Ordered by whom?
By one of two pimp Governing bodies that are going to be pressured to the edge of a plank.
I dunno. The IBF Frauds ordered a rematch between Perez and Agbeko after their second fight IIRC and it mysteriously never came to be.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
captainanddew
I only scored the first 10 rounds and had it 6-4 for Mares (felt like how can I even score from then on when the ref is letting a blatant low blow be called a knockdown in the 11th).
The low blows were obscene. Agbeko got drilled low so often how could it not have changed the fight?
I was happy that Mares got the win because I had bet 50 dollars on him to win, but I feel that if an immediate rematch isn't granted that would be a travesty.
Al Bernstein called it the worst ref performance he had seen in the last 15 years. Jim Gray badgered the ref in the post fight. He asked about the low blows in general and specifically the knockdown in the 11th. Mora said it was on the belt line. Then Gray had the replay of that knockdown shown as they were being interviewed. Mora said he would like to review that one again. Gray said Showtime could show the replay again and Mora started backpedalling and wasn't going to say anything else about it. He knew as soon as he saw the replay that he screwed up royally.
Abner Mares was oblivious. He said that all of them were on the beltline. I never knew a guys beltline was right on the cup. Then he said guys were always pulling his head down causing low blows, which was a response to being asked about Darchinyan and now Agbeko getting low blowed (which I saw happening on only a few of the low shots).
If you properly took a point from Mares for low blows (if not 2 with the number of ones landed) and take away the knockdown in the 11th, then I think I'd end up with a fight that is a draw. And that doesn't begin to estimate the low blows and their effect and the opponent.
I went back and read the fight thread and you really got angry huh? Can't say I blame you. On the bold I have to agree. But I doubt it will happen.
I think a rematch will be ordered within a week or two.
Ordered by whom?
By one of two pimp Governing bodies that are going to be pressured to the edge of a plank.
I dunno. The IBF Frauds ordered a rematch between Perez and Agbeko after their second fight IIRC and it mysteriously never came to be.
The pressure here I think is going to be quite different. This actually looked like a fix.
-
Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
captainanddew
I only scored the first 10 rounds and had it 6-4 for Mares (felt like how can I even score from then on when the ref is letting a blatant low blow be called a knockdown in the 11th).
The low blows were obscene. Agbeko got drilled low so often how could it not have changed the fight?
I was happy that Mares got the win because I had bet 50 dollars on him to win, but I feel that if an immediate rematch isn't granted that would be a travesty.
Al Bernstein called it the worst ref performance he had seen in the last 15 years. Jim Gray badgered the ref in the post fight. He asked about the low blows in general and specifically the knockdown in the 11th. Mora said it was on the belt line. Then Gray had the replay of that knockdown shown as they were being interviewed. Mora said he would like to review that one again. Gray said Showtime could show the replay again and Mora started backpedalling and wasn't going to say anything else about it. He knew as soon as he saw the replay that he screwed up royally.
Abner Mares was oblivious. He said that all of them were on the beltline. I never knew a guys beltline was right on the cup. Then he said guys were always pulling his head down causing low blows, which was a response to being asked about Darchinyan and now Agbeko getting low blowed (which I saw happening on only a few of the low shots).
If you properly took a point from Mares for low blows (if not 2 with the number of ones landed) and take away the knockdown in the 11th, then I think I'd end up with a fight that is a draw. And that doesn't begin to estimate the low blows and their effect and the opponent.
I went back and read the fight thread and you really got angry huh? Can't say I blame you. On the bold I have to agree. But I doubt it will happen.
I think a rematch will be ordered within a week or two.
Ordered by whom?
By one of two pimp Governing bodies that are going to be pressured to the edge of a plank.
I dunno. The IBF Frauds ordered a rematch between Perez and Agbeko after their second fight IIRC and it mysteriously never came to be.
The pressure here I think is going to be quite different. This actually looked like a fix.
No it didn't. If it was supposed to be a fix it was the worst executed fight fix in history. It looked like an overmatched ref.
The idea that the alphabet gangs have the moral standing to pass judgement on even last night is amusing.
But either way I have exhausted my daily quota of references to the alphabet frauds.
:)
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
There is no doubt in my mind that had Agbeko retaliated to the degree warranted or roles reversed he would have been dq'd. It was just that biased and referee should seriously be investigated.
Agbeko should have taken a good low shot in the fourth round and waited no longer. THAT may well have changed both the referees and Mares' mindset about what was going on. At most it'd have cost him a point. And had Mares been given time? That would have given Agbeko time to excoriate the ref about how he was letting Agbeko be abused.
I just don't think its in some guys nature to need crutches and play along with the mind games and manuvering. I get what you say about the eye for an eye though. As such he was already flirting with unintentional headbutt and cut caused around 4th (?) and I really think ref was looking for excuse, he would not have been giving the pass. The last place a guys mind needs to be is on doing the job of the referee. I always flashback to the bs and whining Tyson was doing in regards to butts from Holyfield :rolleyes: and how it led to and resulted in the bite, an extreme case yes and no Mares is not Tyson.
-
Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I really like Abner Mares but he could of been DQ'ed for his antics last night, he must of landed atleast 30 low blows. And the worse thing is that a clear low blow was called a knockdown an absolute disgrace.
Abner Mares was winning the early rounds, but Joseph Agbeko was coming back and could of been on the verge of stealing the decision, had that ridiculous 11th round not happened.
1 Mares 10-8
2 Mares 10-9
3 Mares 10-9
4 Agbeko 10-9
5 Mares 10-9
6 Mares 10-9
7 Agbeko 10-9
8 Mares 10-9
9 Agbeko 10-9
10 Agbeko 10-9 it should of been 10-8
11 Mares 10-8 BS though
12 Mares 10-9
That's how i had it but in reality, Joseph Agbeko should of had two 10-8 rounds. In the 10th and 11th rounds for 100 percent.
One can make a pretty good argument that Mares could, and perhaps should have been penalized at least two points prior to the 11th round. Then that shot in the 11th could have made the ref call a DQ.
Especially if he would of been deducted points way before the 10th round, which in reality he should have. I mean some of those shots were to the leg it was ridiculous.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
There is no doubt in my mind that had Agbeko retaliated to the degree warranted or roles reversed he would have been dq'd. It was just that biased and referee should seriously be investigated.
Agbeko should have taken a good low shot in the fourth round and waited no longer. THAT may well have changed both the referees and Mares' mindset about what was going on. At most it'd have cost him a point. And had Mares been given time? That would have given Agbeko time to excoriate the ref about how he was letting Agbeko be abused.
I just don't think its in some guys nature to need crutches and play along with the mind games and manuvering. I get what you say about the eye for an eye though. As such he was already flirting with unintentional headbutt and cut caused around 4th (?) and I really think ref was looking for excuse, he would not have been giving the pass. The last place a guys mind needs to be is on doing the job of the referee. I always flashback to the bs and whining Tyson was doing in regards to butts from Holyfield :rolleyes: and how it led to and resulted in the bite, an extreme case yes and no Mares is not Tyson.
I hear what you are saying, but I guess I think it SHOULD be in a top fighter's mind not to let himself get abused in the ring. NOBODY but perhaps the ref, would have thought Agbeko was acting inappropriately in retaliating last night, would they?
Course, as always, it is easy to think clearly about stuff like this from the comfort of my office while I'm not getting drilled in the family jewels.
-
Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I really like Abner Mares but he could of been DQ'ed for his antics last night, he must of landed atleast 30 low blows. And the worse thing is that a clear low blow was called a knockdown an absolute disgrace.
Abner Mares was winning the early rounds, but Joseph Agbeko was coming back and could of been on the verge of stealing the decision, had that ridiculous 11th round not happened.
1 Mares 10-8
2 Mares 10-9
3 Mares 10-9
4 Agbeko 10-9
5 Mares 10-9
6 Mares 10-9
7 Agbeko 10-9
8 Mares 10-9
9 Agbeko 10-9
10 Agbeko 10-9 it should of been 10-8
11 Mares 10-8 BS though
12 Mares 10-9
That's how i had it but in reality, Joseph Agbeko should of had two 10-8 rounds. In the 10th and 11th rounds for 100 percent.
One can make a pretty good argument that Mares could, and perhaps should have been penalized at least two points prior to the 11th round. Then that shot in the 11th could have made the ref call a DQ.
Especially if he would of been deducted points way before the 10th round, which in reality he should have. I mean some of those shots were to the leg it was ridiculous.
Given the number of times Mora chided Mares? I thought he could/should have begun deducting points pretty early, like rounds 4-5.
-
Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
There is no doubt in my mind that had Agbeko retaliated to the degree warranted or roles reversed he would have been dq'd. It was just that biased and referee should seriously be investigated.
Agbeko should have taken a good low shot in the fourth round and waited no longer. THAT may well have changed both the referees and Mares' mindset about what was going on. At most it'd have cost him a point. And had Mares been given time? That would have given Agbeko time to excoriate the ref about how he was letting Agbeko be abused.
I just don't think its in some guys nature to need crutches and play along with the mind games and manuvering. I get what you say about the eye for an eye though. As such he was already flirting with unintentional headbutt and cut caused around 4th (?) and I really think ref was looking for excuse, he would not have been giving the pass. The last place a guys mind needs to be is on doing the job of the referee. I always flashback to the bs and whining Tyson was doing in regards to butts from Holyfield :rolleyes: and how it led to and resulted in the bite, an extreme case yes and no Mares is not Tyson.
I hear what you are saying, but I guess I think it SHOULD be in a top fighter's mind not to let himself get abused in the ring.,
NOBODY but perhaps the ref would have thought Agbeko was acting inappropriately in retaliating last night, would they?
Course, as always, it is easy to think clearly about stuff like this from the comfort of my office while I'm not getting drilled in the family jewels.
Aside from the partisan crowd your right. But at the end of the night nobody but the ref has as big an influence in how any fight ends up on the cards.
-
Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
There is no doubt in my mind that had Agbeko retaliated to the degree warranted or roles reversed he would have been dq'd. It was just that biased and referee should seriously be investigated.
Agbeko should have taken a good low shot in the fourth round and waited no longer. THAT may well have changed both the referees and Mares' mindset about what was going on. At most it'd have cost him a point. And had Mares been given time? That would have given Agbeko time to excoriate the ref about how he was letting Agbeko be abused.
I just don't think its in some guys nature to need crutches and play along with the mind games and manuvering. I get what you say about the eye for an eye though. As such he was already flirting with unintentional headbutt and cut caused around 4th (?) and I really think ref was looking for excuse, he would not have been giving the pass. The last place a guys mind needs to be is on doing the job of the referee. I always flashback to the bs and whining Tyson was doing in regards to butts from Holyfield :rolleyes: and how it led to and resulted in the bite, an extreme case yes and no Mares is not Tyson.
I hear what you are saying, but I guess I think it SHOULD be in a top fighter's mind not to let himself get abused in the ring.,
NOBODY but perhaps the ref would have thought Agbeko was acting inappropriately in retaliating last night, would they?
Course, as always, it is easy to think clearly about stuff like this from the comfort of my office while I'm not getting drilled in the family jewels.
Aside from the partisan crowd your right. But at the end of the night nobody but the ref has as big an influence in how any fight ends up on the cards.
Certainly true. I go back to what "protect yourself at all times" really must mean. It has to include protecting yourself when nobody else will.
-
Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
There is no doubt in my mind that had Agbeko retaliated to the degree warranted or roles reversed he would have been dq'd. It was just that biased and referee should seriously be investigated.
Agbeko should have taken a good low shot in the fourth round and waited no longer. THAT may well have changed both the referees and Mares' mindset about what was going on. At most it'd have cost him a point. And had Mares been given time? That would have given Agbeko time to excoriate the ref about how he was letting Agbeko be abused.
I just don't think its in some guys nature to need crutches and play along with the mind games and manuvering. I get what you say about the eye for an eye though. As such he was already flirting with unintentional headbutt and cut caused around 4th (?) and I really think ref was looking for excuse, he would not have been giving the pass. The last place a guys mind needs to be is on doing the job of the referee. I always flashback to the bs and whining Tyson was doing in regards to butts from Holyfield :rolleyes: and how it led to and resulted in the bite, an extreme case yes and no Mares is not Tyson.
I hear what you are saying, but I guess I think it SHOULD be in a top fighter's mind not to let himself get abused in the ring.,
NOBODY but perhaps the ref would have thought Agbeko was acting inappropriately in retaliating last night, would they?
Course, as always, it is easy to think clearly about stuff like this from the comfort of my office while I'm not getting drilled in the family jewels.
Aside from the partisan crowd your right. But at the end of the night nobody but the ref has as big an influence in how any fight ends up on the cards.
Certainly true. I go back to what "protect yourself at all times" really must mean. It has to include protecting yourself when nobody else will.
That may regain a guys macho point but who protects you from a clearly biased ref who is openly stacking the deck?
-
Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
There is no doubt in my mind that had Agbeko retaliated to the degree warranted or roles reversed he would have been dq'd. It was just that biased and referee should seriously be investigated.
Agbeko should have taken a good low shot in the fourth round and waited no longer. THAT may well have changed both the referees and Mares' mindset about what was going on. At most it'd have cost him a point. And had Mares been given time? That would have given Agbeko time to excoriate the ref about how he was letting Agbeko be abused.
I just don't think its in some guys nature to need crutches and play along with the mind games and manuvering. I get what you say about the eye for an eye though. As such he was already flirting with unintentional headbutt and cut caused around 4th (?) and I really think ref was looking for excuse, he would not have been giving the pass. The last place a guys mind needs to be is on doing the job of the referee. I always flashback to the bs and whining Tyson was doing in regards to butts from Holyfield :rolleyes: and how it led to and resulted in the bite, an extreme case yes and no Mares is not Tyson.
I hear what you are saying, but I guess I think it SHOULD be in a top fighter's mind not to let himself get abused in the ring.,
NOBODY but perhaps the ref would have thought Agbeko was acting inappropriately in retaliating last night, would they?
Course, as always, it is easy to think clearly about stuff like this from the comfort of my office while I'm not getting drilled in the family jewels.
Aside from the partisan crowd your right. But at the end of the night nobody but the ref has as big an influence in how any fight ends up on the cards.
Certainly true. I go back to what "protect yourself at all times" really must mean. It has to include protecting yourself when nobody else will.
That may regain a guys macho point but who protects you from a clearly biased ref who is openly stacking the deck?
One does what one can. Agbeko should have gone low at Mares and used the time to lobby Mora publically. It may have dissuaded Mares and it couldn't have made things any worse with Mora could it?
Worse? How could it get any worse?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Dont know if its been raised here yet but apparently the refeeree involved was the same one who disqualified Petersosn for hitting low against Brandon Rios.
So his behaviour here seems even more suspect. There's a letters page on boxingtalk about it that's quite interesting.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
I think Mora is a racist. That's my honest opinion.
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
When will we see a referee actually referee again? I like Abner Mares, he is a great fighter, but he is being misinformed by his handlers if he thinks he will get away with this all the time. I thought Vic was just being a sore loser last time, i have changed my mind after the Agbeko fight. Mares should've been DQ'd and until we get a referee who has the guts to just say enough is enough then these controveries will continue. I want to see rematches with either Vic or Agbeko. There is unfinished business here before any of the three take on Nonito!
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Re: Mares-Agbeko, What I Saw
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I really like Abner Mares but he could of been DQ'ed for his antics last night, he must of landed atleast 30 low blows. And the worse thing is that a clear low blow was called a knockdown an absolute disgrace.
Abner Mares was winning the early rounds, but Joseph Agbeko was coming back and could of been on the verge of stealing the decision, had that ridiculous 11th round not happened.
1 Mares 10-8
2 Mares 10-9
3 Mares 10-9
4 Agbeko 10-9
5 Mares 10-9
6 Mares 10-9
7 Agbeko 10-9
8 Mares 10-9
9 Agbeko 10-9
10 Agbeko 10-9 it should of been 10-8
11 Mares 10-8 BS though
12 Mares 10-9
That's how i had it but in reality, Joseph Agbeko should of had two 10-8 rounds. In the 10th and 11th
rounds for 100 percent.
Point 1: shouldn't we all start with the premise that getting hit low that many times changes a fight and takes something out of a fighter?
Point 2-the judges sitting ringside had it 113-113, 115-111, 115-111 and round 11 changed the outcome of the fight.
Agbeko was winning the round. It should have been clearly called a low blow and a point taken away. Thus, Agbeko 10-8.
It was likely (haven't seen the cards) scored 10-8 Mares by all 3 judges because there was a shot that landed and was called by the ref a knockdown.
How many pts would change if the ref got the call right, penalized Mares a point, and then Agbeko wins the round 10-8 on the cards as it should have been? 4 pts.
Thus, the official scorecards would have been: 115-111 Agbeko, 113-113, 113-113. DRAW!!!!!
