Why is a back-hand punch illegal?

and isnt a jab sometimes bordering very closely on being a back-hand punch? For example if you throw a left hook that misses, and then try to quickly throw a left jab, that jab will be starting out quite in a back-hand position, as you will not bring the missed left hook all the way back to the starting position to throw the subsequent jab. Therefore the left hand after missing the left hook will be somewhere around your right pectoral muscle, and from that position throwing a left jab is rather close to being a back-handed punch.

For a large part of his career, Ali used a back knuckle instead of a jab. If you watch his jab, he flicks it from the back side actually using a short back knuckle instead of a traditional jab. It had a lot more power and he could actually really hurt people with it.

The rules in the amateurs at least is the punch has to land with the knuckle part of the glove. The reason people get away with it is sloppy reffing. Hamed used to do it loads too.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

For a large part of his career, Ali used a back knuckle instead of a jab. If you watch his jab, he flicks it from the back side actually using a short back knuckle instead of a traditional jab. It had a lot more power and he could actually really hurt people with it.

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A back hand is basically an arm punch there will be no body or weight behind it. There is no way a back handed jab would hurt as much as a jab from Holmes.

side of the fist would hurt the most

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

side of the fist would hurt the most

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you do know they wear padded gloves in boxing?

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

side of the fist would hurt the most

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For sure, hard for a ref to pick on an angled hook / uppercut from in close, its a hammer fist really. You watch close and replay you see the outer wrist bone connect at times.Good cover after a push or shove away, then walk in with it. Some of Marcianos blows landed that way due to his stature and style.Those old gloves were raw leather through the sides no where near the amount of padding that was on top.

Yeah I seen many Marciano punches landing that way. Tyson used to intentionally throw a left uppercut so the wristbone would strike right around the delicate blood vessels under the armpit--he said in an interview he would aim for that inner-arm because it would break blood vessels and/or hit a nerve and paralyze the whole arm.

As for Howlin Mad Missy----are you so demented you believe the padding will prevent the pain? Even the padding in your psych-ward room didn't prevent your pain. So how could a padded glove? :cool:

Psyche ward padding ;D.

Funny thought, when they open the door to you, you just throw your head into the side of door.

:p what do they think they are dealing with nuts?

oh yeah, a whole lotta cocoNUTS!!

If I back hand punch is thrown with maximin power, and is blocked by the opponants forearm. The chances of a break is high!!

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Yeah I seen many Marciano punches landing that way. Tyson used to intentionally throw a left uppercut so the wristbone would strike right around the delicate blood vessels under the armpit--he said in an interview he would aim for that inner-arm because it would break blood vessels and/or hit a nerve and paralyze the whole arm.

As for Howlin Mad Missy----are you so demented you believe the padding will prevent the pain? Even the padding in your psych-ward room didn't prevent your pain. So how could a padded glove? :cool:

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See you didn't get in Ross's face with the answer he gave. I suggest you back off.
I would give a proper answer but can't be arsed since you're fucking thick.

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Yeah I seen many Marciano punches landing that way. Tyson used to intentionally throw a left uppercut so the wristbone would strike right around the delicate blood vessels under the armpit--he said in an interview he would aim for that inner-arm because it would break blood vessels and/or hit a nerve and paralyze the whole arm.

As for Howlin Mad Missy----are you so demented you believe the padding will prevent the pain? Even the padding in your psych-ward room didn't prevent your pain. So how could a padded glove? :cool:

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See you didn't get in Ross's face with the answer he gave. I suggest you back off.
I would give a proper answer but can't be arsed since you're fucking thick.

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I didnt even notice that!

Yes any sort of punch could hurt if thrown with enough force and not seen coming but if you had to hit a pad to create the most force measurable with your jabbing hand, then a slap or back hand punch wouldnt be the first choice. In my experience it would go uppercut, hook then jab, in order of how much weight and drive you can put behind each shot.

why should i get in ross' face? he gave a reasonable answer.

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

For a large part of his career, Ali used a back knuckle instead of a jab. If you watch his jab, he flicks it from the back side actually using a short back knuckle instead of a traditional jab. It had a lot more power and he could actually really hurt people with it.

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A back hand is basically an arm punch there will be no body or weight behind it. There is no way a back handed jab would hurt as much as a jab from Holmes.

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I'm not sure that this is correct. Consider that bringing the laft hand up and under- I think the term is a 'rising jab'- lands on the back of the knuckles. That, given the push off the rear foot, is a harder punch. That is why the old timers used it. When I was first learning about boxing, when I was 10 or so, I met a guy that had fought in the 1920s, and he showed me how to slip in back hand blows and how damaging they could be.
Of course, in those days they fought for real, with 4oz gloves, as opposed to the pillows they wear today. Given that, I can't see that there is any point in using the back of the hand.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

For a large part of his career, Ali used a back knuckle instead of a jab. If you watch his jab, he flicks it from the back side actually using a short back knuckle instead of a traditional jab. It had a lot more power and he could actually really hurt people with it.

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A back hand is basically an arm punch there will be no body or weight behind it. There is no way a back handed jab would hurt as much as a jab from Holmes.

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I'm not sure that this is correct. Consider that bringing the laft hand up and under- I think the term is a 'rising jab'- lands on the back of the knuckles. That, given the push off the rear foot, is a harder punch. That is why the old timers used it. When I was first learning about boxing, when I was 10 or so, I met a guy that had fought in the 1920s, and he showed me how to slip in back hand blows and how damaging they could be.
Of course, in those days they fought for real, with 4oz gloves, as opposed to the pillows they wear today. Given that, I can't see that there is any point in using the back of the hand.

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Thats basically just a slap though. Yeah through thin gloves that would sting as the knuckles crack but you still wouldt be able to put as much force in as an uppercut or straight jab.

true but i can see what he means about pushing off the back foot whilst swinging upward using all the top of the shoulder strength. shite, those shots could even clip you in the throat.

I dont know about everyone else but I dont get any more power from pushing off the backfoot when using the jabbing hand. Im left handed and find and teach people to drive upwards on the leading foot for power in the jab. Theres a sequence that needs to be followed to make the most on the momentum and not waste the energy that could go in to a simple jab.

I broke my right hand by punching a wall in temper in my last season and couldnt use it even lightly for months. So I only used my left for months on the bags and the pads. My left got as good as I think it could get. I learnt how to drive properly to get force through it and it was sharp and had a loud clap sound sound when it landed on the pads or bag because the distance was right. I know not everyone is a big puncher but in my gym my jab was harder in the end than some of the other lads rights. My major problem was arm length. Holding a tape measure between the top of my right bicep where it meets the pectoral muscle down to the wrist is only 19" and im 5,9" which I think is disproportinate arm length?

If someone was taught how to use the jab so it actually hurt an opponent they wouldnt bother using it to flick out with.

Spinning back hand would generate some considerable power, although I expect you'd have a haymaker waiting for you by the time you had done your spin.

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Originally Posted by ross

I dont know about everyone else but I dont get any more power from pushing off the backfoot when using the jabbing hand. Im left handed and find and teach people to drive upwards on the leading foot for power in the jab. Theres a sequence that needs to be followed to make the most on the momentum and not waste the energy that could go in to a simple jab.

I broke my right hand by punching a wall in temper in my last season and couldnt use it even lightly for months. So I only used my left for months on the bags and the pads. My left got as good as I think it could get. I learnt how to drive properly to get force through it and it was sharp and had a loud clap sound sound when it landed on the pads or bag because the distance was right. I know not everyone is a big puncher but in my gym my jab was harder in the end than some of the other lads rights. My major problem was arm length. Holding a tape measure between the top of my right bicep where it meets the pectoral muscle down to the wrist is only 19" and im 5,9" which I think is disproportinate arm length?

If someone was taught how to use the jab so it actually hurt an opponent they wouldnt bother using it to flick out with.

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You can hurt somebody with the jab: it is a matter of distance, timing and pushing off the back foot. A real simple example is, for orthodox fighters in this example, slipping or parrying a jab over the left shoulder and bringing the counter "jab" up while pushing off the back foot. Very damaging. Short arms are actually an advantage here as it may encourage your opponent to step with his jab. Very stiff counter.
But the point here is backhands...The obvious use is after a miss with either hand. But those are very obvious. More subtle are the uses inside, and very damaging. Example: using your right hand to slap his left out of the way and then backhanding across the nose with your left. The guy that taught me this in 1974 or so had had his nose smashed this way. Again, with the padding of today's gloves, the effect would probably be much less.

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Originally Posted by 0james0

Spinning back hand would generate some considerable power, although I expect you'd have a haymaker waiting for you by the time you had done your spin.

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Also get you disqualified;D

Ross: i dont think that measurement of yoyurs is disproportionate at all. one thing a trainer told me in your case you can try to get a bit lower maybe by slightly bending your forward leg (your right leg, you're a southpaw you said right?) which can get you just an inch or 2 closer to your opponent. Also, you'll be about an inch LOWER as well due to the slight bend in the knee, which can give you even more leverage off the back foot to put into the jab. As the frward knee bends it automatically takes you lower and closer to the opponent and the back leg will automatically push off the floor giving the jab more stiffness.

I can't believe I just read all of that

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I can't believe I just read all of that

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Then commented;)

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

I can't believe I just read all of that

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Then commented;)

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Twice. May have been a late night but was seriously wondering if a tennis player could help in teaching an effective backhand slap-punch ???

no but a squash player can :cool:

:rocks: