After Vitali puts on another powerful performance surely this can only put lewis on an even higher level .
your thoughts
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After Vitali puts on another powerful performance surely this can only put lewis on an even higher level .
your thoughts
No point looking at what one fighter is doing as a direct influence on another fighters credentials... There's a thread somewhere on here about Bernard Hopkins continued success and it's impact on Joe Calzaghe legacy (or lack thereof). Same thing here.
Having said that, Lennox Lewis is/will always be better than the Klitschko's.
Lewis was and is one of the Greatest heavyweights in history....he beat everyone he fought and would have beaten Vitali much easier if he had trained for him when they fought...Vitali did very well against Lewis due to a few factors
1. Lewis was suppose to fight someone easier that night
2. Lewis under trained
3. Lewis was in that retirement zone
fact is Vitali would have had a very hard nite if Lewis was at his best....Lewis is a true Great and the Klits ARE NOT
job biscuit (anyone got a punture repair kit)!!!
eh eh!!
You mean Vitali ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Otley
sorry but Ocean's Eleven wasn't a real fight, Vitali fought Lewis, Wlad didn't, and you can make as many excuses as you want for Lennox but Vitali was getting the best of him once the stoppage came along, and although Lewis has a good resume, the Klitschko's have cleaned out the HW division Lewis did not, he didn't fight other top guys like Ruiz, Byrd, Toney, etc. at the end of his career, and when finally someone was able to go tooth and nail with him he decided to quit, the fact that Vitali retired and came back to have the post retirement career he has against mostly top opposition put's him on par with ANY recent HW champ including Lewis same goes for WladQuote:
Originally Posted by Otley
Lol...u can see how i made a mistake...both Klits r soooo boring they could be the same person...lol
If Lewis quit because he had a tough time then he should have quit against McCall (who would have koed both Klits) also Rahman got lucky when he koed Lewis...oh yer and Lewis should have retired after Ray Mercer took him to a close decision....lol
job biscuit (getting a roasting)!!!
eh eh!!!
You have to admit Lewis had more talent in his toe clippings than any of the Klits....but i have to admit Wlad has a funnier personality and does a good impression of Borat
job biscuit (da yer wannt ta b mmyyyee fffrrieend)!!!
eh eh!!!
Lol. Ruiz and Byrd? Are you serious?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry but Ocean's Eleven wasn't a real fight, Vitali fought Lewis, Wlad didn't, and you can make as many excuses as you want for Lennox but Vitali was getting the best of him once the stoppage came along, and although Lewis has a good resume, the Klitschko's have cleaned out the HW division Lewis did not, he didn't fight other top guys like Ruiz, Byrd, Toney, etc. at the end of his career, and when finally someone was able to go tooth and nail with him he decided to quit, the fact that Vitali retired and came back to have the post retirement career he has against mostly top opposition put's him on par with ANY recent HW champ including Lewis same goes for WladQuote:
Originally Posted by Otley
The guys who were both very fortunate not to have 'L's next to thier names after fighting a man Lewis put away in one round?
And James Toney was good but not a realistic threat at the time, nor worth a great deal of money.
And Lewis quit at what? 37 38, that's not young and he did his thing without a lengthy break like Vitali. That break and what ever surgery, physio and god knows what elseio he had during this time did Vitali the world of good and obviously added years to his career but it really has nothing to do with who is better as you could see when he fought previous Lewis victim Briggs.
Look at their faces at the end of that fight and then repeat that comment with a straight face.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry but Ocean's Eleven wasn't a real fight, Vitali fought Lewis, Wlad didn't, and you can make as many excuses as you want for Lennox but Vitali was getting the best of him once the stoppage came along, and although Lewis has a good resume, the Klitschko's have cleaned out the HW division Lewis did not, he didn't fight other top guys like Ruiz, Byrd, Toney, etc. at the end of his career, and when finally someone was able to go tooth and nail with him he decided to quit, the fact that Vitali retired and came back to have the post retirement career he has against mostly top opposition put's him on par with ANY recent HW champ including Lewis same goes for WladQuote:
Originally Posted by Otley
Technically, yes Vitali was ahead in rounds on the judges scorecards, but Lewis inflicted so much damage that Vitali needed something like 50 stitches and could not continue. That, for me, is far more of an indicator that the round score after 6 rounds in showing who was winiing/won that fight.
And to suggest that Byrd and Ruiz and former 160 pound James Toney were better than the likes of Morrison, McCall, Tua, Tucker, Mercer, a Golota that had just taken Bowe to pieces twice, is laughable
We never got the chance see how he was
He was great at holding and hitting, rabbit punching, backhanding and had a great jab. He had very little stamina, was weak-chinned, but had a very good looping overhand right.
When did he display a weak chin? Other than being dropped by heavy shots I can't really think of a time when he was stunned by weak shots, staggered or tipping about like a drunken sailor. Can't believe we're on at at this old chestnut again... :vd:
Seriously?!... :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
this topic will never die...mainly because there was no rematch.
zeljko mav staggered him twice, and that a light-hitting 200 lb. vegetarian to boot.
I'm sure you just make this shit up. Mavrovic never landed a glove on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Weak chin?!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Stop talking crap fella
Those punches that felled lewis would have dropped any human being.
Lewis bounced back from those defeats and reversed them.
He had closure.. Unlike khan.
Instead of regurgitating the opinions of haters and fair weather fans... why don't you watch some of his career and form your opinion on what you see with your own eyes... not what you read or hear from others.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng
If he was glass jawed that video wouldn't be 10 seconds long... never mind 10 minutes.
damn adam, seeing those hooks again will only start up a Tyson/Lewis thread!:cool:
One thing I will say is that Vitali took Lewis'desire away from him that night. Lewis went away victorious but knowing he'd never come back. He knew his days as 'the man' were up. So for a man who sought closure prior to defeat, it is a shame that he wouldn't afford that same luxury to Vitali who probably to this day still craves it.
No where near the top 10 All time Heavyweight Champions.
Well with some bitter country rivalry some fans are full on anti English anyway then they were and will be anti Lewis too, so he gets served some unjust stuff after getting ko'd but hey he was the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBInstead of regurgitating the opinions of haters and fair weather fans... why don't you watch some of his career and form your opinion on what you see with your own eyes... not what you read or hear from others.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng
If he was glass jawed that video wouldn't be 10 seconds long... never mind 10 minutes.
Isnt it amazing how many fighters used the leaping left hook to try and crack him open!
Man that is the dumbest thing i have heard on saddo ever i mean shit. Lewis not a top 10 heavyweight let me see your top ten list and lack of fucking knowledge you have not to have Lewis up there.
I guess they figured it was the shortest, fasted way to geta hard shot from A to B... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AndreWell with some bitter country rivalry some fans are full on anti English anyway then they were and will be anti Lewis too, so he gets served some unjust stuff after getting ko'd but hey he was the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBInstead of regurgitating the opinions of haters and fair weather fans... why don't you watch some of his career and form your opinion on what you see with your own eyes... not what you read or hear from others.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng
If he was glass jawed that video wouldn't be 10 seconds long... never mind 10 minutes.
Isnt it amazing how many fighters used the leaping left hook to try and crack him open!
peak lewis and a peak vitali over the course of a few fights the outcomes would be very even
i think lewis and the klits (perhaps more vitali) are the best hws in history
Just wondering eric do you find Vitali as boring as Wald just curious. I know you do not care for the brothers because you find them boring but i find Vitali to be fun to watch i don't dislike him at all really.
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Originally Posted by Mr140
no vitali isnt boring, he takes a few more risks
the fight on saturday wasnt boring, he could have stepped it up a bit at times, scored an earlier KO, but then again it probably would have been over in a round and a lot more disapointing
don't really see how it's laughable, seeing how both Ruiz and Byrd did a hell of a lot more than Haye, yet everyone kept trying to play him up as if it was a must do fight for Wlad, whose resume is already stacked, lets face it apart from an old Holyfield, the heavies that Lewis pounded out are just as mediocre as the ones that Wlad and Vitali have stopped, Tua never even won a title hell his ONLY title shot was against Lewis, and well McCall, Morrison, Tucker, Mercer, and well Golota are the Arreola, Chagaev, Haye, Peter, Brewster, and McCline of yesteryear, they did enough to win or challenge for belts yet when they fought actual talent they were stompedQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HLook at their faces at the end of that fight and then repeat that comment with a straight face.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry but Ocean's Eleven wasn't a real fight, Vitali fought Lewis, Wlad didn't, and you can make as many excuses as you want for Lennox but Vitali was getting the best of him once the stoppage came along, and although Lewis has a good resume, the Klitschko's have cleaned out the HW division Lewis did not, he didn't fight other top guys like Ruiz, Byrd, Toney, etc. at the end of his career, and when finally someone was able to go tooth and nail with him he decided to quit, the fact that Vitali retired and came back to have the post retirement career he has against mostly top opposition put's him on par with ANY recent HW champ including Lewis same goes for WladQuote:
Originally Posted by Otley
Technically, yes Vitali was ahead in rounds on the judges scorecards, but Lewis inflicted so much damage that Vitali needed something like 50 stitches and could not continue. That, for me, is far more of an indicator that the round score after 6 rounds in showing who was winiing/won that fight.
And to suggest that Byrd and Ruiz and former 160 pound James Toney were better than the likes of Morrison, McCall, Tua, Tucker, Mercer, a Golota that had just taken Bowe to pieces twice, is laughable
IMO Lewis and ATG don't go together, he doesn't even crack my top 10 yet neither do the Klitschko's
Lewis ducked Ruiz, Byrd and Toney? ;D
Lets get some things in perspective.
1. No-one gave a shit about Lewis-Byrd. Don King, Byrd's promoter, paid Lewis $1million dollars to give up the IBF title, so Byrd-Holyfield could happen, whilst Lewis was contemplating retirement.
2. Ruiz turned down a Lewis fight on the date he fought Grant. Then got himself involved in the Holyfield WBA shit and lost to Jones. Ruiz being a serious challenger to Lewis is ridiculous.
3. Lewis basically retired after beating Tyson. He was only hanging around for a possible Tyson rematch and massive $30 million pot.
The date Lewis fought Vitali on was originally meant to be a Lewis/Tyson doubleheader. Tyson-Maskaev, Lewis-Johnson HBO PPV. However, Tyson pulled out. This is when Klitschko came into the picture. He fights on Lewis's undercard to set up a POSSIBLE match between the two. But Johnson pulls out so Lewis accepts Klitschko (to stop himself losing a fortune on the promotion).
For people that say they had the same preperation is just ridiculous.
Vitali was 31, a young hungry challenger trying to redeem the Klitschko name. He was seen as a coward. Wlad had just been splattered by Sanders. Lewis was 38, hadn't fought for a year, and spent that time contemplating retirement. Clearly their careers were in completely opposite places. Vitali was entering the fight of his life, with everything to gain and nothing to lose. Lewis was trying to save himself from losing a fortune against a guy that meant nothing to him.
Had Lewis lost there's no doubt there would have been a rematch. He didn't. And didn't need to prove anything against a fighter from a different generation to him. ;)
:11fb8:Quote:
sorry but Ocean's Eleven wasn't a real fight, Vitali fought Lewis, Wlad didn't, and you can make as many excuses as you want for Lennox but Vitali was getting the best of him once the stoppage came along, and although Lewis has a good resume, the Klitschko's have cleaned out the HW division Lewis did not, he didn't fight other top guys like Ruiz, Byrd, Toney, etc. at the end of his career, and when finally someone was able to go tooth and nail with him he decided to quit, the fact that Vitali retired and came back to have the post retirement career he has against mostly top opposition put's him on par with ANY recent HW champ including Lewis same goes for Wlad
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesdon't really see how it's laughable, seeing how both Ruiz and Byrd did a hell of a lot more than Haye, yet everyone kept trying to play him up as if it was a must do fight for Wlad, whose resume is already stacked, lets face it apart from an old Holyfield, the heavies that Lewis pounded out are just as mediocre as the ones that Wlad and Vitali have stopped, Tua never even won a title hell his ONLY title shot was against Lewis, and well McCall, Morrison, Tucker, Mercer, and well Golota are the Arreola, Chagaev, Haye, Peter, Brewster, and McCline of yesteryear, they did enough to win or challenge for belts yet when they fought actual talent they were stompedQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HLook at their faces at the end of that fight and then repeat that comment with a straight face.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry but Ocean's Eleven wasn't a real fight, Vitali fought Lewis, Wlad didn't, and you can make as many excuses as you want for Lennox but Vitali was getting the best of him once the stoppage came along, and although Lewis has a good resume, the Klitschko's have cleaned out the HW division Lewis did not, he didn't fight other top guys like Ruiz, Byrd, Toney, etc. at the end of his career, and when finally someone was able to go tooth and nail with him he decided to quit, the fact that Vitali retired and came back to have the post retirement career he has against mostly top opposition put's him on par with ANY recent HW champ including Lewis same goes for WladQuote:
Originally Posted by Otley
Technically, yes Vitali was ahead in rounds on the judges scorecards, but Lewis inflicted so much damage that Vitali needed something like 50 stitches and could not continue. That, for me, is far more of an indicator that the round score after 6 rounds in showing who was winiing/won that fight.
And to suggest that Byrd and Ruiz and former 160 pound James Toney were better than the likes of Morrison, McCall, Tua, Tucker, Mercer, a Golota that had just taken Bowe to pieces twice, is laughable
IMO Lewis and ATG don't go together, he doesn't even crack my top 10 yet neither do the Klitschko's
i agree with what you have said in your first paragraph
not even putting lewis in the top 10 all time is a bit daft tho
if you put fighters of latter eras in with fighters of earlier ones then it wouldnt be that fair because the latter eras have the benefits of nutrician and science and evolving techniques and all the experience of yester-years battles, that said maybe this is an unfair statement but
lewis would have beaten all fighters in his history, him on his day them on theirs
Im not saying that to be a biast brit, i dont even count lewis as a true brit
the only fighters in history who would challenge lewis for the best in history would be the klits
what a stupid assumption you make. Only one regurgitating here is YOU. I couldnt give a rat's ass about haters and fair weather friends. This IS my opinion. YOu need to see a shrink seeing the delusions you are under about where people get their opinions.Quote:
Instead of regurgitating the opinions of haters and fair weather fans... why don't you watch some of his career and form your opinion on what you see with your own eyes... not what you read or hear from others.
Quote:
the only fighters in history who would challenge lewis for the best in history would be the klits
......disturbingly delusional. :o
Raucously hysterical that. See you were quite drunk that night, then.Quote:
I'm sure you just make this shit up. Mavrovic never landed a glove on him.
who would have beaten him?Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Erics44 you MUST be joking here. OK I'll assume you are not, then. Who would have beaten Lewis?
FIRST OF ALL 2 people ALREADY DID BEAT HIM DO YOU REMEMBER BOY????? Oliver McCall is one person who WOULD HAVE beaten him :rolleyes: as well as someone named Hasim Rahman.
But let's skip those 2 nobodies and talk about some SOMEBODIES.
Let's start with the 100% surefire losses for ol' Lummox:
1. BIG George Foreman would have smoked Lewis in 3 rounds, any year, even in his comeback.
2. Prime Joe Louis would have no problem with Lennox, easy UD at the very least.
3. Cassius Clay prime would have made Lewis look the real slouch that he is.
4. Larry Holmes would SMOKE Lewis, the stamina he had, Lewis would be huffing and puffing by the 7th, Holmes would just tee-off with that long right he loved so much.
Need I go on? Even guys like prime Cleveland Williams, or prime Tyson had a 50-60% chance to smoke him. PLLLLLLLLLLLLLLeeeeeeeeeeease.
unfortunately mate, i disagreeQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
and even if they would have beaten lewis, you are suggesting it would be easy for them? do you really think a fight with lewis would have been easy for anyone?
cummon man lets try and think objectively
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sub1QRmibn4
this link is for the idiot AdamGB who thinks I got the opinion about Mav rocking Lewis frm haters and fair weather friends. Sounds like AdamGB is eating hallucinogenic mushrooms.
Note round 7 how the 200 pound light-hitting vegetarian Mavrovic really staggers Lewis with about a 12 punch combination. Yeah AdamGB, I know its tough to understand how a person can form their own opinion; you better work on that knee-jerk reaction you have that people who disagree with you must have gotten their opinion from "haters".
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
i just watched round 7 and i didnt notice
what time of the round was he staggered?
and there's Lewis with 12 secs left in Rd 7 doing what he does best: holding Mav around the neck with his left arm, and firing rabbit punches with the right. Funny how Lewis and Bruno, both UK fighters, really truly LOVED this tactic. Lewis knocked out many an opponent either like this, or in his other favorite manner as he knocked out Mike Grant: holding his opponent in a headlock with his left, and throwing the uppercut underneath for the KO.