What I Saw

Aloha!

Needed some time away so I took it.

Here's what I saw.

1. Ortiz flagrantly risk disqualification by headbutting Mayweather

2. Referee stops the action, takes a point, and restarts the action by chopping his hand between the fighters

3. Ortiz moves to apologize to Mayweather and stops defending himself (a VERY bad idea).

4. Floyd accepts apology, steps back and lands a left hook before Ortiz's hands are up.

5. Ortiz turns to an oddly distracted Joe Cortez and still fails to defend himself.

6. Mayweather knocks him out.

Ortiz acted illegally and then committed a cardinal boxing sin, he failed to defend himself. The fighters weren't on a break, the ref had retarted the action, and just like Dempsey did against Sharkey, Mayweather took advantage of a fighter being stupid.

Classy? Nope. Legal? You betcha. Ortiz has only himself to blame. He was stupid.

Then Floyd tried to pick a fight with an eighty year old and lost the verbal fight!

You got it spot on. Only thing I would add is...

Cortez also says 'Lets Go' when he motions the action back on.

Ortiz just wasnt thinking clearly at that point and im not sure he even heard Cortez say it as a result

Can not get a decent replay is there one up yet?, but i did not see a box on but if it was then it was legit and Ortiz let himself get duped. Silly.

question my friend.

My opinion is Floyd did that act not because he had been butted, but rather because Ortiz came hard at him on the ropes twice during that round. The second time, Floyd went back into the ropes because Ortiz was landing/partially landing punches and Floyd couldn't use his legs to out of harm's way. It wasn't a case of Ortiz actually pushing him into the ropes (rather punches landed/block forced him back).

It wasn't the strange situation we saw with De La Hoya with Oscar flailing his arms but not landing anything with Floyd on the ropes. Ortiz landed some of his shots and there was actual danger for Floyd.

All that said, I think Floyd would have outboxed/stopped Ortiz with right hands later in the fight, but my opinion is still the same, Floyd took that shot out of fear.

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Originally Posted by J_C

You got it spot on. Only thing I would add is...

Cortez also says 'Lets Go' when he motions the action back on.

Ortiz just wasnt thinking clearly at that point and im not sure he even heard Cortez say it as a result

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I posted mine before I read yours. I agree with everything you wrote in your post and your follow up.

Ortiz just doesn't have a high quality boxing IQ and Floyd is damned near Einstein in that area.

Yeah I agree with that assessment MM.

Boxingtalk have a good write up where they say Ortiz deliberately fouled Floyd then turned into a submissive puppy dog, all apologetic and begging forgiveness.

It reminded me a bit of the Khan Maidana fight where, after almost being KO'd Khan suddenly wanted to start hugging his opponent who just kept trying to hit him.

Ortiz should have been paying more attention.

But what Floyd did was a real bitch move, although if I'm honest, pretty fucking gangsta.

His verbal spat with Merchant though was disgraceful. He has no respect for anyone and Larry, for all his bravado looked visibly shaken by it to me.

He should get a big fine for that.

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Originally Posted by captainanddew

question my friend.

My opinion is Floyd did that act not because he had been butted, but rather because Ortiz came hard at him on the ropes twice during that round. The second time, Floyd went back into the ropes because Ortiz was landing/partially landing punches and Floyd couldn't use his legs to out of harm's way. It wasn't a case of Ortiz actually pushing him into the ropes (rather punches landed/block forced him back).

It wasn't the strange situation we saw with De La Hoya with Oscar flailing his arms but not landing anything with Floyd on the ropes. Ortiz landed some of his shots and there was actual danger for Floyd.

All that said, I think Floyd would have outboxed/stopped Ortiz with right hands later in the fight, but my opinion is still the same, Floyd took that shot out of fear.

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Ortiz clearly had made Floyd uncomfortable as you noted. I didn't understand a couple of times why Ortiz would have him pinned and then back away and let Floyd out.

I THINK what I saw Floyd do was land the laft hook to say "screw you headbutter" to ortiz and THEN when Ortiz looked over at Cortez Floyd thought "Really? OK, you asked for it" :)

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Originally Posted by J_C

You got it spot on. Only thing I would add is...

Cortez also says 'Lets Go' when he motions the action back on.

Ortiz just wasnt thinking clearly at that point and im not sure he even heard Cortez say it as a result

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I watched the replay. Ortiz didn't appear to hear it.

It is one thing if a ref says hey lets fight and one guy is apologizing or touching gloves and the other one punches. You can say, hey we are here to fight so I fought.

But Floyd pretended to embrace Ortiz's apology and sucker punched his ass. He pretended so that Ortiz wouldn't put up his guard to fight.

That is a punk move.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Yeah I agree with that assessment MM.

Boxingtalk have a good write up where they say Ortiz deliberately fouled Floyd then turned into a submissive puppy dog, all apologetic and begging forgiveness.

It reminded me a bit of the Khan Maidana fight where, after almost being KO'd Khan suddenly wanted to start hugging his opponent who just kept trying to hit him.

Ortiz should have been paying more attention.

But what Floyd did was a real bitch move, although if I'm honest, pretty fucking gangsta.

His verbal spat with Merchant though was disgraceful. He has no respect for anyone and Larry, for all his bravado looked visibly shaken by it to me.

He should get a big fine for that.

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Nice post. Yup, Floyd acted in a less than sportsmanlike way...but legal. The Merchant thing was disgraceful I agree.

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Originally Posted by captainanddew

question my friend.

My opinion is Floyd did that act not because he had been butted, but rather because Ortiz came hard at him on the ropes twice during that round. The second time, Floyd went back into the ropes because Ortiz was landing/partially landing punches and Floyd couldn't use his legs to out of harm's way. It wasn't a case of Ortiz actually pushing him into the ropes (rather punches landed/block forced him back).

It wasn't the strange situation we saw with De La Hoya with Oscar flailing his arms but not landing anything with Floyd on the ropes. Ortiz landed some of his shots and there was actual danger for Floyd.

All that said, I think Floyd would have outboxed/stopped Ortiz with right hands later in the fight, but my opinion is still the same, Floyd took that shot out of fear.

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I don't think that he was too concerned; after all, in a world title fight you expect to get hit, and he was making Ortiz do whatever he wanted him to do. He moved Ortiz around the ring, he made Ortiz follow him, what ever.

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Aloha!

Needed some time away so I took it.

Here's what I saw.

1. Ortiz flagrantly risk disqualification by headbutting Mayweather

2. Referee stops the action, takes a point, and restarts the action by chopping his hand between the fighters

3. Ortiz moves to apologize to Mayweather and stops defending himself (a VERY bad idea).

4. Floyd accepts apology, steps back and lands a left hook before Ortiz's hands are up.

5. Ortiz turns to an oddly distracted Joe Cortez and still fails to defend himself.

6. Mayweather knocks him out.

Ortiz acted illegally and then committed a cardinal boxing sin, he failed to defend himself. The fighters weren't on a break, the ref had retarted the action, and just like Dempsey did against Sharkey, Mayweather took advantage of a fighter being stupid.

Classy? Nope. Legal? You betcha. Ortiz has only himself to blame. He was stupid.

Then Floyd tried to pick a fight with an eighty year old and lost the verbal fight!

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What I saw was Ortiz starting to break down mentally again, flagrantly fouling as he was starting to get beaten, that plus the frustration, Ortiz was looking for a way out, Cortez said fight, and Mayweather gave him a way out.

Had Hopkins done the same thing no one would be saying anything, they'd have said "That's Hopkins." and played the woody woodpecker theme and went on with their day.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Aloha!

Needed some time away so I took it.

Here's what I saw.

1. Ortiz flagrantly risk disqualification by headbutting Mayweather

2. Referee stops the action, takes a point, and restarts the action by chopping his hand between the fighters

3. Ortiz moves to apologize to Mayweather and stops defending himself (a VERY bad idea).

4. Floyd accepts apology, steps back and lands a left hook before Ortiz's hands are up.

5. Ortiz turns to an oddly distracted Joe Cortez and still fails to defend himself.

6. Mayweather knocks him out.

Ortiz acted illegally and then committed a cardinal boxing sin, he failed to defend himself. The fighters weren't on a break, the ref had retarted the action, and just like Dempsey did against Sharkey, Mayweather took advantage of a fighter being stupid.

Classy? Nope. Legal? You betcha. Ortiz has only himself to blame. He was stupid.

Then Floyd tried to pick a fight with an eighty year old and lost the verbal fight!

---

What I saw was Ortiz starting to break down mentally again, flagrantly fouling as he was starting to get beaten, that plus the frustration, Ortiz was looking for a way out, Cortez said fight, and Mayweather gave him a way out.

Had Hopkins done the same thing no one would be saying anything, they'd have said "That's Hopkins." and played the woody woodpecker theme and went on with their day.

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Nice on the bold.

Im laughing my arse off at everyone whos bagging floyd for defending himself against Larry Merchant. All over the net, on heaps of different forums people hate on Larry every day. Floyd says it to his face and its disrespectful after copping it from Larry on several occasions previously BUT its alright for a bunch of younger ppl to say shit behind his back on the net. Bit of a double standard.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Aloha!

Needed some time away so I took it.

Here's what I saw.

1. Ortiz flagrantly risk disqualification by headbutting Mayweather

2. Referee stops the action, takes a point, and restarts the action by chopping his hand between the fighters

3. Ortiz moves to apologize to Mayweather and stops defending himself (a VERY bad idea).

4. Floyd accepts apology, steps back and lands a left hook before Ortiz's hands are up.

5. Ortiz turns to an oddly distracted Joe Cortez and still fails to defend himself.

6. Mayweather knocks him out.

Ortiz acted illegally and then committed a cardinal boxing sin, he failed to defend himself. The fighters weren't on a break, the ref had retarted the action, and just like Dempsey did against Sharkey, Mayweather took advantage of a fighter being stupid.

Classy? Nope. Legal? You betcha. Ortiz has only himself to blame. He was stupid.

Then Floyd tried to pick a fight with an eighty year old and lost the verbal fight!

---

What I saw was Ortiz starting to break down mentally again, flagrantly fouling as he was starting to get beaten, that plus the frustration, Ortiz was looking for a way out, Cortez said fight, and Mayweather gave him a way out.

Had Hopkins done the same thing no one would be saying anything, they'd have said "That's Hopkins." and played the woody woodpecker theme and went on with their day.

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Same with me from what i saw, Ortiz is a bit desperate , he knew hes face will be busted for few rounds and it could lead thru stoppage, worst case he could quit again, also what id notice after the fight i think hes happy with the the purse he had for the moment never heard complaining, he just give in for what happened, twice for an apology in fight not protecting his self is really pathetic, about the rematch Money May is willing and i really doubt of Ortiz though.

Do you think Ortiz was genuinely hurt? It looked a bit fake to me. :-\

That's basically what I saw. Seen it happen to dozens of fighters. Only person to blame is Ortiz. He was way out of his depth from the second this fight was signed.

Ortiz came with his A game and mayweather played fair and won with ease and he is older!
Mayweather got headbutted and all the haters think that's fair and ok but mayweather finishing Ortiz in fair style isn't??? I like PAC man but now hope he dies!!!!!
Hate this pukes reply cos I say

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Originally Posted by Snakey

Im laughing my arse off at everyone whos bagging floyd for defending himself against Larry Merchant. All over the net, on heaps of different forums people hate on Larry every day. Floyd says it to his face and its disrespectful after copping it from Larry on several occasions previously BUT its alright for a bunch of younger ppl to say shit behind his back on the net. Bit of a double standard.

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It's because a lot of people see Floyd go off on one and all they see is a black loud mouth teeing off on an old defenceless white man, spouting incoherent jibba jabba.

Don't believe me ask Bilbo :p

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Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

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Originally Posted by Snakey

Im laughing my arse off at everyone whos bagging floyd for defending himself against Larry Merchant. All over the net, on heaps of different forums people hate on Larry every day. Floyd says it to his face and its disrespectful after copping it from Larry on several occasions previously BUT its alright for a bunch of younger ppl to say shit behind his back on the net. Bit of a double standard.

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It's because a lot of people see Floyd go off on one and all they see is a black loud mouth teeing off on an old defenceless white man, spouting incoherent jibba jabba.

Don't believe me ask Bilbo :p

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I don't think it's his colour, it's because it's floyd.

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Originally Posted by Master

Do you think Ortiz was genuinely hurt? It looked a bit fake to me. :-\

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I wouldnt say fake but he was far too happy about it all for my liking. Once again just pleased to be out of there I think.

Ortiz looks like a fool, just seen some of the press conference, he's laughing about it.:rolleyes:

Ortiz did the same thing against Maidana. Ortiz is the one in the wrong.

Both fighters acted like classless punks but I feel the real blame should lie with Cortez... he remineded me of Ali - Liston 2 ref Joe Walcott.

totally clueless on what was going on and needs to retire before a fighter gets killed by his very sub standard ref skills

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Aloha!

Needed some time away so I took it.

Here's what I saw.

1. Ortiz flagrantly risk disqualification by headbutting Mayweather

2. Referee stops the action, takes a point, and restarts the action by chopping his hand between the fighters

3. Ortiz moves to apologize to Mayweather and stops defending himself (a VERY bad idea).

4. Floyd accepts apology, steps back and lands a left hook before Ortiz's hands are up.

5. Ortiz turns to an oddly distracted Joe Cortez and still fails to defend himself.

6. Mayweather knocks him out.

Ortiz acted illegally and then committed a cardinal boxing sin, he failed to defend himself. The fighters weren't on a break, the ref had retarted the action, and just like Dempsey did against Sharkey, Mayweather took advantage of a fighter being stupid.

Classy? Nope. Legal? You betcha. Ortiz has only himself to blame. He was stupid.

Then Floyd tried to pick a fight with an eighty year old and lost the verbal fight!

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I had a series a really shitty streams for this fight, but it looked to me like Ortiz was getting the worst of it during the evening, even before the headbutt incident and subsequent KO. Ortiz was being totally outclassed, so in my view the headbutt and KO, were irrelevant, the outcome was pretty much decided by Floyd before that. And I agree, Ortiz is a dumbass.

So let's cut to the chase, Mayweather needs to fight Pacquiao now, no other fights are going to be acceptable.

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Originally Posted by captainanddew

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Originally Posted by J_C

You got it spot on. Only thing I would add is...

Cortez also says 'Lets Go' when he motions the action back on.

Ortiz just wasnt thinking clearly at that point and im not sure he even heard Cortez say it as a result

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I watched the replay. Ortiz didn't appear to hear it.

It is one thing if a ref says hey lets fight and one guy is apologizing or touching gloves and the other one punches. You can say, hey we are here to fight so I fought.

But Floyd pretended to embrace Ortiz's apology and sucker punched his ass. He pretended so that Ortiz wouldn't put up his guard to fight.

That is a punk move.

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That's what I was thinking. Ortiz got what he deserved but I don't think Floyd gained any fans by doing that. Floyd does not care about the fans anyway, he is in there for the money.

The fix was in. If Cortez called fight back on why was his eyes looking outside the ring even after two hard shots landed. Cortez didn't even look at the fighters even after ortiz was down. His head and eyes were looking outside the ring at ringside. He did the same thing to Hatton when Mayweather purposely stuck his head outside the ropes and then took a point off after Hatton hit Mayweather. Is Cortez Mayweather's little boy? A ref doesn't call a fight back on then refuse to look at both fighter. Who paid Joe off.

To people asking why Cortez was looking out of the ring. The answer is this, the headbutt happened near the end of the round, he called time, deducted a point, he called the fight back on and then looked at the timekeeper to see if the round was still going on as any ref would do to see if there was still time left in the round. So when Mayweather clocked Ortiz, Cortez looked at the timekeeper to see if the round was still going on and time keeper responded that the round had not ended as there was one second left before the knockdown, so Cortez started counting. Simple as that.

It got surreal for me when the ref seemingly stopped Alvarez Gomez a bit premature. I couldn't understand why Ortiz wasn't going after Floyd from the start. I just thought to myself (I wonder if Ortiz is just in awe or he was paid off, but this aint the boy who fought Berto) Mayweather wasn't hitting him as hard as Berto. I couldn't even lean forward in my chair.

Floyd was winning just fine. Connecting effectively each round more than 15 punches while Victor was connecting 3 or 4. Not a classy way to win but if someone is fighting dirty, he will be dealt the same way :-\.

Well, Floyd didn't break any rules, the fight had been resumed, but Ortiz came towards him as if to aplogise and Mayweather comes towards him, they exchange a couple of words, then Mayweather unloads on him. I don't blame him for not wanting to chat, but he acted like he was accpeting the apology then struck without giving Ortiz any signal that parle was now over, which makes it a sucker punch in my book.

If he didn't want to chat he should have just gone back into his stance and ignored Ortiz so he'd at least have got the message the it was back on. Remember Barrera turning down a glove touch with hamed in their fight? He just left him there with his arm out stretched, didn't over a handshake then right hook him when he wasn't expecting it. that'd have been acceptable behaviour, it's cricket with it's gentlemanly behavior but we've got to have some standards.

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Originally Posted by Larryboy

Well, Floyd didn't break any rules, the fight had been resumed, but Ortiz came towards him as if to aplogise and Mayweather comes towards him, they exchange a couple of words, then Mayweather unloads on him. I don't blame him for not wanting to chat, but he acted like he was accpeting the apology then struck without giving Ortiz any signal that parle was now over, which makes it a sucker punch in my book.

If he didn't want to chat he should have just gone back into his stance and ignored Ortiz so he'd at least have got the message the it was back on. Remember Barrera turning down a glove touch with hamed in their fight? He just left him there with his arm out stretched, didn't over a handshake then right hook him when he wasn't expecting it. that'd have been acceptable behaviour, it's cricket with it's gentlemanly behavior but we've got to have some standards.

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I don't blame Floyd for hitting him.
I blame him for duping the kid. He could have just motioned to get the fuck away from me and lets fight. But instead he pretended to accept the apology and then as quick as he fucking could, clocked Ortiz. He lulled him on purpose. That to me is fucking classless. I accept your apolo.... oh blammo. Bitch move.

I don't know what Ortiz said right before the supposed sucker punch but it looks to me like during the final moments Ortiz is looking for another hug, Floyd accepts it half assed, presses in close like fighters often do when they are ready to go into the phone booth and puts his guard up. I honestly believe he thought with the ref already having resumed action and him putting his guard up inside that the fight was resumed. Then Ortiz says something to him and pulls back out with his hands down and Floyd throws two punches. You don't get to call your own timeouts in boxing, you are always supposed to defend yourself and it only looked dirty because Ortiz forgot he was in a boxing match. He didn't even try to lift his hands up after the first punch, makes me think he is missing some of the instinctual stuff that is commonplace to other boxers. As for saying Berto punched harder and therefore Ortiz had to of taken a dive, bullshit. What makes anyone think Berto is truly a power puncher? He might punch harder than Floyd, maybe not, but he is most certainly not as accurate, telegraphs his punches more, and aside from possibly the one knockdown didn't ever catch Ortiz when he wasn't aware that a punch was about to land.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

To people asking why Cortez was looking out of the ring. The answer is this, the headbutt happened near the end of the round, he called time, deducted a point, he called the fight back on and then looked at the timekeeper to see if the round was still going on as any ref would do to see if there was still time left in the round. So when Mayweather clocked Ortiz, Cortez looked at the timekeeper to see if the round was still going on and time keeper responded that the round had not ended as there was one second left before the knockdown, so Cortez started counting. Simple as that.

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This is as factual as it gets.

You know it's funny. The london riots taught me that when people are angry, the say and do some REALLY dumb shit.

I'm glad at least some people are able to think clearly :rolleyes:

When you call a fight on you look at the fighters, not at the timekeeper. Cortez was still looking at the timekeeper when Ortiz was on his ass. 15 seconds of looking at the timekeeper after calling the fight back on?!? Ya right. Just callin them as i see them. I really didn't care who won this fight, all i wanted to see was an entire fight, that ended the proper way, not on a ref screw up.

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Originally Posted by captainanddew

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Originally Posted by Larryboy

Well, Floyd didn't break any rules, the fight had been resumed, but Ortiz came towards him as if to aplogise and Mayweather comes towards him, they exchange a couple of words, then Mayweather unloads on him. I don't blame him for not wanting to chat, but he acted like he was accpeting the apology then struck without giving Ortiz any signal that parle was now over, which makes it a sucker punch in my book.

If he didn't want to chat he should have just gone back into his stance and ignored Ortiz so he'd at least have got the message the it was back on. Remember Barrera turning down a glove touch with hamed in their fight? He just left him there with his arm out stretched, didn't over a handshake then right hook him when he wasn't expecting it. that'd have been acceptable behaviour, it's cricket with it's gentlemanly behavior but we've got to have some standards.

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I don't blame Floyd for hitting him.
I blame him for duping the kid. He could have just motioned to get the fuck away from me and lets fight. But instead he pretended to accept the apology and then as quick as he fucking could, clocked Ortiz. He lulled him on purpose. That to me is fucking classless. I accept your apolo.... oh blammo. Bitch move.

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Wrong!!!
Mayweather used deception, Ortiz doesn't understand the art or rules of the sport, mayweather saw the genuine opening and took it and that's it!!

Mayweather once said that if u make a mistake u must pay for it and Ortiz paid and the crowd cried.

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

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Originally Posted by captainanddew

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Originally Posted by Larryboy

Well, Floyd didn't break any rules, the fight had been resumed, but Ortiz came towards him as if to aplogise and Mayweather comes towards him, they exchange a couple of words, then Mayweather unloads on him. I don't blame him for not wanting to chat, but he acted like he was accpeting the apology then struck without giving Ortiz any signal that parle was now over, which makes it a sucker punch in my book.

If he didn't want to chat he should have just gone back into his stance and ignored Ortiz so he'd at least have got the message the it was back on. Remember Barrera turning down a glove touch with hamed in their fight? He just left him there with his arm out stretched, didn't over a handshake then right hook him when he wasn't expecting it. that'd have been acceptable behaviour, it's cricket with it's gentlemanly behavior but we've got to have some standards.

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I don't blame Floyd for hitting him.
I blame him for duping the kid. He could have just motioned to get the fuck away from me and lets fight. But instead he pretended to accept the apology and then as quick as he fucking could, clocked Ortiz. He lulled him on purpose. That to me is fucking classless. I accept your apolo.... oh blammo. Bitch move.

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Wrong!!!
Mayweather used deception, Ortiz doesn't understand the art or rules of the sport, mayweather saw the genuine opening and took it and that's it!!

Mayweather once said that if u make a mistake u must pay for it and Ortiz paid and the crowd cried.

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Of course the crowd cried, they paid to watch that bullshit. They were expecting to see a fight and not some form of deception. Does Floyd even need to use deception on an opponent who is a heavy underdog?

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Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

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Originally Posted by captainanddew

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Originally Posted by Larryboy

Well, Floyd didn't break any rules, the fight had been resumed, but Ortiz came towards him as if to aplogise and Mayweather comes towards him, they exchange a couple of words, then Mayweather unloads on him. I don't blame him for not wanting to chat, but he acted like he was accpeting the apology then struck without giving Ortiz any signal that parle was now over, which makes it a sucker punch in my book.

If he didn't want to chat he should have just gone back into his stance and ignored Ortiz so he'd at least have got the message the it was back on. Remember Barrera turning down a glove touch with hamed in their fight? He just left him there with his arm out stretched, didn't over a handshake then right hook him when he wasn't expecting it. that'd have been acceptable behaviour, it's cricket with it's gentlemanly behavior but we've got to have some standards.

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I don't blame Floyd for hitting him.
I blame him for duping the kid. He could have just motioned to get the fuck away from me and lets fight. But instead he pretended to accept the apology and then as quick as he fucking could, clocked Ortiz. He lulled him on purpose. That to me is fucking classless. I accept your apolo.... oh blammo. Bitch move.

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Wrong!!!
Mayweather used deception, Ortiz doesn't understand the art or rules of the sport, mayweather saw the genuine opening and took it and that's it!!

Mayweather once said that if u make a mistake u must pay for it and Ortiz paid and the crowd cried.

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Of course the crowd cried, they paid to watch that bullshit. They were expecting to see a fight and not some form of deception. Does Floyd even need to use deception on an opponent who is a heavy underdog?

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No. Although I must admit, the whole spectacle was entertaining in a certain manner. :cool: