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Morales, Barrera, Marquez in his own weight , legends all , this is a no brainer:cool:.
Honestly, this thread is probably going to start a war. I know a case could be made for each fighter, but I think Pacquiao's record is way better than Mayweather's.
He fought Marquez, Barrera and Morales in a total of 8 fights. Who would fight first ballot hall of famers (for their boxing ability not their popularity) a total of 8 times like that?
He also fought Cotto and Margarito; fighters Floyd did not fight that the public wanted to see.
Floyd has some big names on his resume as well but it's just not on the same level of Manny's
ALSO, my post was in now way a comparison of Pacquiao and Mayweather's abilities as fighters (cause it would've obviously been twisted to some people to believe I said that). It's just comparing their resumes, nothing more.
they both have great cv's and its been a pleasure to watch them both.
Floyd
Pacquiao.
Yea but we also have look at how they beat those fighters and what condition they were in at the time..Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Pac beat Marquez ONLY ON PAPER, but he pretty much got exposed..
Morales and Barrera were past their best..
Delahoya was a walking Zombie
Margarito is slow like a snail and was tailor made... He was cherry picked at a CW..
Cotto was a decent victory..
Well thats a surprise ;D.
Iwill guarantee you will be seeing marquez getting exposed soon, but i suppose he is over the hill .
umm then do u think Marquez is in his prime? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by roberto duran legend
MAB was not past his best in the 1st meeting.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYea but we also have look at how they beat those fighters and what condition they were in at the time..Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Pac beat Marquez ONLY ON PAPER, but he pretty much got exposed..
Morales and Barrera were past their best..
Delahoya was a walking Zombie
Margarito is slow like a snail and was tailor made... He was cherry picked at a CW..
Cotto was a decent victory..
Exposed ? he already probably beat Manny Pacquiao twice, the guy is obviously not in his peak. Moving way above his peak weight and being in so many wars, and how many guys have been successful in there late 30's in smaller weightclasses ?Quote:
Originally Posted by roberto duran legend
Just saying he is going to get knocked out thats all, and Marquez no way beat Manny twice but not going over that shit again.
barrera was in his prime against NAz, but he started slipping after..Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBMAB was not past his best in the 1st meeting.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYea but we also have look at how they beat those fighters and what condition they were in at the time..Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Pac beat Marquez ONLY ON PAPER, but he pretty much got exposed..
Morales and Barrera were past their best..
Delahoya was a walking Zombie
Margarito is slow like a snail and was tailor made... He was cherry picked at a CW..
Cotto was a decent victory..
Not to make excuses but he had many problems going into the pacman bout.. They started making an issue about the metal plate inside his head and he had to move camp in the middle because of the forrest fire in big bear...
MArco was not in his physical prime against pacman.. He was just a little bit past it..
all I know is, Pacman aint the best asian fighter ever.. That's some bullshit.
Past their best? Barerra was coming off a string of wins and was only 29 when he first lost to the Pacman, i would say that Barrera was at his peak in 2003? Morales was also just 29 in 2005 when he first beat Pacman, can't see how either fighter was past his best when they fought Pacquaio?Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYea but we also have look at how they beat those fighters and what condition they were in at the time..Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Pac beat Marquez ONLY ON PAPER, but he pretty much got exposed..
Morales and Barrera were past their best..
Delahoya was a walking Zombie
Margarito is slow like a snail and was tailor made... He was cherry picked at a CW..
Cotto was a decent victory..
Both fighters have great resumes, i give Pacman the edge as he fought so many times against Barrera, Morales, Marquez and then moved up in weight to beat Cotto, Hatton, Margo, DLH and Mosley. Floyd missed some along the way, Tszyu, Cotto and Margo are not there. Floyd just doesn't fight often enough these days, why he hasn't fought Cotto is still a mystery to me..
[QUOTE=FinitoElDinamita;1015906][QUOTE=ICB;1015900]:DQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
;D
Monster streak going in with Impressive victories over Johny Tapia and Kevin Kelley following victories againts Enrique Sanchez and Erik Morales.
:cool:
[QUOTE=miron_lang;1015925][QUOTE=FinitoElDinamita;1015906]lol ummm because tapia was even more past it than Barrera and 126 wasn't his natural weight.. Same with Kelley.. He had much more mileage on him when barrera beat him...Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB:DQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Monster streak going in with Impressive victories over Johny Tapia and Kevin Kelley following victories againts Enrique Sanchez and Erik Morales.
:cool:
R u kidding me. haha c'mon Miron.. I know you aint no boxrec warrior.. ;D
Yea but the problems MAB was having isn't Manny Pacquiao's fault, MAB was still rated P4P number 3 wasn't he ? or easily top 5. So it is still a good win for Manny Pacquiao, and MAB did go on to beat Erik Morales clearly, and had a very good performance vs Paulie Ayala, so he wasn't that much past it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitabarrera was in his prime against NAz, but he started slipping after..Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBMAB was not past his best in the 1st meeting.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYea but we also have look at how they beat those fighters and what condition they were in at the time..Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Pac beat Marquez ONLY ON PAPER, but he pretty much got exposed..
Morales and Barrera were past their best..
Delahoya was a walking Zombie
Margarito is slow like a snail and was tailor made... He was cherry picked at a CW..
Cotto was a decent victory..
Not to make excuses but he had many problems going into the pacman bout.. They started making an issue about the metal plate inside his head and he had to move camp in the middle because of the forrest fire in big bear...
MArco was not in his physical prime against pacman.. He was just a little bit past it..
He probably wasn't at his absolute peak, but you could say that for most fighters when they lose. All i know is MAB was rated very high in P4P rankings, and had good performances before and after the 1st Manny Pacquiao fight.
Neither is Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Floyd probably has the better talent but him fighting less frequently and taking less risk when he went up the higher weights made him lose to Manny in the resume department.
What do you mean no way ? both fights were close and easily could of gone to JMM. Infact most big websites and even Ring Magazine thought JMM beat Manny Pacquiao in there 2nd fight, and i had JMM edging both fights aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by roberto duran legend
I won't argue with you on that. But maybe you can tell us who you think is the best Asian fighter ever so as to educate us.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Inside that squared circle, Nonito Donaire is the the most talented and the most skilled Asian Boxer of all times..Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerI won't argue with you on that. But maybe you can tell us who you think is the best Asian fighter ever so as to educate us.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
The Korean Hawk Jung Koo Chang is the greatest JFW of all times.
And if we are talking about street figures, Kim Doo Han aka The General's Son is the greatest Asian streetfighter of all times. This man kept the Yakuza in check during the Japanese occupation.. Fact..
Nonito Donaire is not experienced enough to be considered the best. We'll know in the next 10 years if he'll be.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaInside that squared circle, Nonito Donaire is the the most talented and the most skilled Asian Boxer of all times..Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerI won't argue with you on that. But maybe you can tell us who you think is the best Asian fighter ever so as to educate us.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
The Korean Hawk Jung Koo Chang is the greatest JFW of all times.
And if we are talking about street figures, Kim Doo Han aka The General's Son is the greatest Asian streetfighter of all times. This man kept the Yakuza in check during the Japanese occupation.. Fact..
Jung-Koo Chang stayed in one weight division most of his career. He isn't even undefeated.
I don't believe Kim Doo Han is even involved in organized fighting so he doesn't qualify. But by including him, it appears that you are not just referring to boxing in here. Then Bruce Lee would rank higher than Pacquiao.
I never said anything about accomplishment.. Im only talking about skillset and natural talent and Nonito is the greatest ive seen..Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerNonito Donaire is not experienced enough to be considered the best. We'll know in the next 10 years if he'll be.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaInside that squared circle, Nonito Donaire is the the most talented and the most skilled Asian Boxer of all times..Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerI won't argue with you on that. But maybe you can tell us who you think is the best Asian fighter ever so as to educate us.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
The Korean Hawk Jung Koo Chang is the greatest JFW of all times.
And if we are talking about street figures, Kim Doo Han aka The General's Son is the greatest Asian streetfighter of all times. This man kept the Yakuza in check during the Japanese occupation.. Fact..
Jung-Koo Chang stayed in one weight division most of his career. He isn't even undefeated.
I don't believe Kim Doo Han is even involved in organized fighting so he doesn't qualify. But by including him, it appears that you are not just referring to boxing in here. Then Bruce Lee would rank higher than Pacquiao.
What does being undefeated have to do with anything? Based on your analogy, Floyd is definitely greater than Pac then.. hagler never moved up either.. we can only judge fighters based on what was available to them and how they managed to win.. Same can be said of Ricardo Lopez..
Most historians agree that Chang is the #1-#2 Junior Fly of all times.. Him and Yuh Myung Woo are neck and neck..
Bruce Li? lol He's an actor... And I dont think you know much about Kim Doo Han but he was nothing like Bruce Li. Dude was a real gangster/streetfighter and most of his fights are well documented..
I'm sorry man. I can never take any reply you post on a Pacquiao thread seriously. I agree that Marquez and Pacquiao's fights were controversial, but to say it was obvious one person won the fight is ignorant. They were both razor close fights and could've gone either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
All this talk about Morales, Barrera and Marquez (the first time) not being in their prime when they fought Manny is horsesh*t. If they were on the downslide, Pacquiao was no where near his prime yet.
I understand you don't like the way he fights, but that shouldn't blind you from his place in boxing history. Pacquiao is EASILY and UNEQUIVOCALLY the best asian fighter ever.
Who the hell is Jung Koo Ching Chong Chai?
Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
That's racist :o
U dont know Chang? Im not surprised though.. many avid fans of pacman never watched boxing until he came along so ya know.. lol
If you are talking about the best Asian fighter, then you have to consider the accomplishment. For without it, the skillset and natural talent will just be subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaI never said anything about accomplishment.. Im only talking about skillset and natural talent and Nonito is the greatest ive seen..Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerNonito Donaire is not experienced enough to be considered the best. We'll know in the next 10 years if he'll be.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaInside that squared circle, Nonito Donaire is the the most talented and the most skilled Asian Boxer of all times..Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerI won't argue with you on that. But maybe you can tell us who you think is the best Asian fighter ever so as to educate us.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
The Korean Hawk Jung Koo Chang is the greatest JFW of all times.
And if we are talking about street figures, Kim Doo Han aka The General's Son is the greatest Asian streetfighter of all times. This man kept the Yakuza in check during the Japanese occupation.. Fact..
Jung-Koo Chang stayed in one weight division most of his career. He isn't even undefeated.
I don't believe Kim Doo Han is even involved in organized fighting so he doesn't qualify. But by including him, it appears that you are not just referring to boxing in here. Then Bruce Lee would rank higher than Pacquiao.
What does being undefeated have to do with anything? Based on your analogy, Floyd is definitely greater than Pac then.. hagler never moved up either.. we can only judge fighters based on what was available to them and how they managed to win.. Same can be said of Ricardo Lopez..
Most historians agree that Chang is the #1-#2 Junior Fly of all times.. Him and Yuh Myung Woo are neck and neck..
Bruce Li? lol He's an actor... And I dont think you know much about Kim Doo Han but he was nothing like Bruce Li. Dude was a real gangster/streetfighter and most of his fights are well documented..
If you are comparing a one division to a multidivision champion with regards to being the best EVER, then the former should at least be very dominant in his division. And he was defeated 4 times.
Bruce Lee may be an actor but he was involved in competitive fights. He is the founder of the Jet Kun Doo martial arts. And I don't even think Kim Doo Han is known outside of Korea.
Pac beat Marquez on Paper only? Thats silly, one judge did admit a scoring error on their first fight that could have given Pac a close win. The second fight still a close win to a very difficult opposition. I think you need to re-phrase what you just said that the win is on paper. I will take it as a close win.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYea but we also have look at how they beat those fighters and what condition they were in at the time..Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Pac beat Marquez ONLY ON PAPER, but he pretty much got exposed..
Morales and Barrera were past their best..
Delahoya was a walking Zombie
Margarito is slow like a snail and was tailor made... He was cherry picked at a CW..
Cotto was a decent victory..
Morales and Barrera past their primes? What on earth are you talking about? Pac beat Barrera when he was the king of the feather weights, thats the reason why he was considered to be the lineal champ after beating the man. Morales is on his prime when they fought 3 times.
Dela Hoya was a walking zombie, and pacman was a walking bloated lightweight. it was dela hoya who made the call to fight pacman on welter, and that should be taken as pac's mistake.
Margarito is a natural big welter and only fought 4-5times above 147lbs on his entire career. A naturally small lightweight like pacman who never fought at light middleweight (for this fight CW of 150lbs) will clearly be at a disadvantage. Pacman is clearly a crazy cherry picker who picks a fight with a guy 4 inches taller, and 17lbs heavier than him on a weight class or catch weight he was never used to.
Cotto a decent win? okay.
you never mentioned Hatton...
That right there shows how limited some posters are in there Boxing knowledge. Actual age means little in Boxing. Barrera went into the Hamed fight with 55 pro fights already under his belt. Among them were his wars with McKinney, Sanchez, Jones and Morales. There was no way in hell Barrera was in his prime when he faught Hamed. No way. His prime ended after the McKinney fight. It's the reason he changed his fighting style. He was still a great fighter. But no longer in his prime. A prime, ruthless Barrera stops Hamed in 4Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitabarrera was in his prime against NAz, but he started slipping after..Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBMAB was not past his best in the 1st meeting.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaYea but we also have look at how they beat those fighters and what condition they were in at the time..Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Lo
Pac beat Marquez ONLY ON PAPER, but he pretty much got exposed..
Morales and Barrera were past their best..
Delahoya was a walking Zombie
Margarito is slow like a snail and was tailor made... He was cherry picked at a CW..
Cotto was a decent victory..
Not to make excuses but he had many problems going into the pacman bout.. They started making an issue about the metal plate inside his head and he had to move camp in the middle because of the forrest fire in big bear...
MArco was not in his physical prime against pacman.. He was just a little bit past it..
Well C lo are you saying that Pac peaked at 30 or 31 then because for a lower weight fighter kinda weird thing to happen. I mean he was 26 and been fighting for 10 years when Morles beat him but back to the question of there top wins i guess. Would have to be Morles, Barrea, and Marquez for Pac and For Mayweather Castllio, Correles and Dela Hoya i don't see their top wins being to far off really. I guess the thing that can also be said is that Mayweather never lost so kinda what tips off the scale as well.
:-\Lol. Ching Chong Chai was Filipino-Chinese martial arts actor. Why would that be racist?... cuz I mixed it with a Korean name? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
That's racist :o
U dont know Chang? Im not surprised though.. many avid fans of pacman never watched boxing until he came along so ya know.. lol
(your second statement) Yeah. Part of it is true. But I aint one of 'em.
I have always criticized Floyd's resume (despite some big wins and his obvious tremendous talent). And yes...Pac has fought three LEGENDARY Mexican fighters in his career...but some of his recent victories have been incredibly over hyped. But honestly...you can always finds ways to poke holes in someones resume. Floyd has been fighting at a higher lever from a younger age and his incredible technical and defensive brilliance often downplay his wins. Pac creates more excitement and firework in the ring because of his offensive style...hence people look at him as more of a "warrior." We can also look at the fighters they both fought: Hatton, Delahoya, Marquez, and Mosley. Clearly you have to say Pac fought a better Marquez (at his natural weight, younger, etc.). But Floyd basically finished Hatton's career and left Pac with a shot fighter (please note...i do not rate a PRIME Hatton highly for what's it's worth). Delahoya was also past his best against both fighters...but he was far worse off when he fought Pac (older, weight drained, etc.) than when he fought Floyd. And Mosley was clearly past his best when both fighters fought him. The incredible media overhype of Pac has come over his recent wins over "bigger" fighters. While one has to respect the fact that Pac went up in weight...i certainly don't respect his wins as much as others. Floyd also has not had huge wins. Bringing up Marquez in weight cheapened his win. As far as Ortiz....while he certainly is not a GREAT fighter...he at least was a young, live body. I actually think the Ortiz Floyd fought recently was a more dangerous fighter than the versions of Cotto and Margo Pac beat. At the end of the day...none of this really means much. We all have our opinions and biases. Hopefully these two will fight each other soon.
Violent demise, u takin a stab at my boxing knowledge? Lmfao homey, u compare ur saddoleague ranking compared to mine and there goes ur answer..
I never said anything about barreras age,foo.. Its about the mileage on the odometer, not the age, we all know that. Barrera was still at the top of his game when he fought naz.
Go make me a sandwich or something, vd.
I don't know what your knowledge is to take a stab at it. Lot of foolish people think Barrera was prime going into the Hamed fight. If your one of them than the comment applies to you. If not than it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
ok
to be fair
both Barrera (Who was at #2 or #3 p4p at the time and would win another title north after ) and
Pacquiao ( Who will lose to Morales in his 1st fight at 130 )
aren't prime on November of 2003 :D *one of them was primed
--
Barrera had a different style at 122 but LOL at Barrera being not primed againts Naz :D
-Peace
They both fought decent fighters. IMO these threads always turn into a 'my fighter has a bigger one that yours' when in reality I suspect that Floyd might be somewhat more endowed, but in terms of actual opponents, you can really make a case for either guy.
Mayweather has perhaps coasted more in recent years in never facing Cotto nor Margarito, but in his time he did fight credible opposition.
Records are very similar both have big wins at low weights and good wins at high weights Pacs might be slightly better first to fight and beat Martinez has the best resume.