Age can creep up anytime now and those mileages might be more apparent against a speedy southpaw like bute.
How much of a factor you think Bute's bodypunching will be and do you see a stoppage?
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Age can creep up anytime now and those mileages might be more apparent against a speedy southpaw like bute.
How much of a factor you think Bute's bodypunching will be and do you see a stoppage?
I think Bute probably could stop him, but hearing how much these two have sparred I have a gut feeling he might just be happy going through the motions to some extent. I don't really hope I'm wrong either as I really like Johnson and don't want to see him take a beating. In any event I don't think Johnson has much chance to win and really wont take much interest in Bute until he fights more of a live threat. Ward, Pascal, Froch or Kessler would all be great opponents for him with a much better shot to win.
Johnson lasts the distance
I really like Johnson but i can see him getting taken out in the late rounds, he doesnt seem to have much left anymore.
If anyone's getting stopped it'll be Bute down the stretch, and even that is unlikely.
Bute is very fast and a great body puncher, he has great accuracy and placement of his punches.
That said, I'll be rootin for Johnson to pull it off one more time, tho he looks to have slipped just a bit in his last fight.
Does Bute hit any harder than Froch ? No.
Higher ko % and has stopped Andrade. That in itself means something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Possibly, but Bute is the better puncher with the faster handspeed and he can catch johnson with something he dont see..
JOhnson has a granite chin but nobody can stand up to a well placed bodyshot...
Johnson had that beaten look on his face last time and this could be the end of the road for him..
I believe there's a fairly good chance of Bute knocking him out.
If Johnson can keep things close, stay on Bute's chest I think things could get very interesting down the stretch. Johnson also has a good body attack & that southpaw killer right hand
JOhnson runs out of gas here, time's up, just like will happen to Toney.
Bute KO 6.
Johnson ain't getting stopped he's a yardie road warrior and that's all that needs to be said.
I have a feeling this fight ends inside the 12 , either could win it.
It's an exciting fight even if Johnson has lost three of his last five. Rightly or wrongly, Bute has a certain aura of vulnerability to him since the first Andrade fight. Here's the thing Bute has faced good pressure fighters in the past -Bika and Anrade - it's actually a style that he may have somewhat down at this point.
Who do you think benefited more from the 50 rounds or something of sparring that Johnson and Bute have done together?
Bute has more punching power than Froch. I'm not sure who said he didn't, but that is wrong at least on paper. Froch has knocked out 4 people in his last 10 fights and he hasn't knocked out anyone in his last 4; Bute has knocked out 8 of his last ten and is on a six fight knockout streak. Froch's competition has been better, but I haven't heard anyone of his recent competition say that Froch packs a huge punch. Bute's power comes from his speed, which is different than Froch's power.
That said, this fight will be a good guage of where Bute stands in comparison with Froch since Johnson just fought Froch and lost a mixed decision. Will Bute do better than Froch or not?
:goodpost:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Froch-vs-Bute punching power? Common opponents - Sergey Tatevosyan and Brian Magee.
Result - Bute beats Tatevosyan UD. Froch beats him by sparkage KO 2. Bute stops Magee in 10. Froch, with a broken thumb, puts a prime Magee to sleep in the 11th.
On all known collateral form Froch punches harder that Bute. Fact.
Fenster you always come up with the facts , " FACT "!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Why do you think Magee was at his prime when he fought Froch? It's completely subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Thus, objectively, being fair, based on common opponents, they're punching power is even. Based on KO percentage and KO's in their last 10 fights, Bute wins hands down.
- Magee had his best wins after the Froch fight and before the Bute fight. Bute knocked him before Froch did. Scoreboard.
- Froch fought Tatevosyan immediately after Bute dominated him, which likely played a role in Froch's win.
Not to mention, in his fight against Magee, Froch was actually losing on all three judge's scorecards. In his fight against Bute, Magee didn't win one round. Magee has stated that he was at his best before the Bute fight and was too inexperienced when he fought Froch. In addition, since the Bute fight he also won some organization's trinket.
I took a few minutes to rate their punching power and......
Bute definitely punches harder than Froch... no question about it..
Compare and contrast the quality of carls and lucians competition. Carl wins hands down in terms of facing quality of opposition and if lucian had fought who carl had fought he would have gone the distance with all of them too.
Its a tough question to say who has the better power, I've got an idea...why don't they both face each other? Or isn't Bute ready to face a fighter with true quality yet? Johnson on paper IMO is his biggest fight to date and Johnson has Been beaten a lot recently. Bute needs to man up and face better quality of opposition instead of facing people he knows he will beat.
I know Bute is a good fighter and I am not doubting that what so ever, he just really needs to fighter better fighters. Now the super 6 is over there is no excuse, he's spent too much time in Canada facing easy fighters he needs to get to the US and fight a real name before he gets any recognition. Carl hasn't ducked anyone and has earnt his shot at the super 6 final and that proves he's better than Bute until they get in the ring and fight each other.
He wanted to face Kessler but Kessler backed off to fight a much easier fighter in Sartison. He then was supposed to fight Pavlik, the deal was inked but Pavlik made a fool of himself and backed off. Meanwhile, Froch, Hopkins, Pascal and are were all unavailable. It''s not the guy's fault, really. Mendy was the mandatory and they didn't want to fight him but did chose to while everybody else were unavailable to have one full year clear of shitty mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
As for the power, Froch thumb excuse is a bit funny plus you gotta look at other facts; nobody did knock out Andrade ever... Bute did. Fulgencio Zuniga has only been knocked out twice in his career... by a Prime healthy Pavlik and... Bute, the same Zuniga that lost a UD against the very dangerous Cloud at 175... Now look at the % of ko both have, end of story. Thus said, I'd love to see Bute against Froch next and to then see him fight Ward (assuming that Froch will lose against Ward, that would make a super promotion and pre-"big" showdown. All these interesting fighters should finally be available next so we should be able to see what we want to see real soon.
Bute is currently one of the most overrated fighters in boxing
Some people even consider him above ward and froch in th smwa
If he stops johnson it will go a long way to justifying this
Its highly unlikely tho, he should win a descision
Kessler coming off the JC loss probably wanted to rebuild his confidence and fighting Bute would have been a big ask IMO. Still shouldn't have ducked him though I agree but you would have to see it from his eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessHe wanted to face Kessler but Kessler backed off to fight a much easier fighter in Sartison. He then was supposed to fight Pavlik, the deal was inked but Pavlik made a fool of himself and backed off. Meanwhile, Froch, Hopkins, Pascal and are were all unavailable. It''s not the guy's fault, really. Mendy was the mandatory and they didn't want to fight him but did chose to while everybody else were unavailable to have one full year clear of shitty mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
As for the power, Froch thumb excuse is a bit funny plus you gotta look at other facts; nobody did knock out Andrade ever... Bute did. Fulgencio Zuniga has only been knocked out twice in his career... by a Prime healthy Pavlik and... Bute, the same Zuniga that lost a UD against the very dangerous Cloud at 175... Now look at the % of ko both have, end of story. Thus said, I'd love to see Bute against Froch next and to then see him fight Ward (assuming that Froch will lose against Ward, that would make a super promotion and pre-"big" showdown. All these interesting fighters should finally be available next so we should be able to see what we want to see real soon.
Pavlik isn't a world class 168 fighter though and he might have a name but as you said he's messed it up and as far as I'm concerned that last bullshit with him pulling out has really dropped my opinion of him. He's got a lot of rebuilding to do and with all the shit going on in his personal life I don't see him being a force like he use to be.
Those are only two fighters though that Bute should have fought and didn't. I just think he really does need to up his game now, it's time to see the real Bute and see if he is on Froch and Wards level. He has the potential no doubt but unless he fights someone of real class to prove he's only looking good against faded or easy opposition and IMO that doesn't merit you the best in the weight class. Many people do rate him the best but until he fights someone with real quality its beyond me how someone can rate him first in the weightclass.
Let's hope in the near future these fights do materialise. There is no excuse for them not to now.
I don't know what the point of your post was. :chillpill: It's like everyone from Nottingham or a fan of Froch is offended by anything positive said about Bute. They aren't even slated to fight yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Hands down Froch has fought better competition. No one in their right mind would argue otherwise. In fact, Carl Froch has fought better opposition than Andre Ward. It's not that Bute has fought only tomato cans either; I don't consider Zuniga, Bika or Andrade to be chumps.
All this about Bute not fighting good opposition is hogwash. He didn't fight good opposition because all the big players were in the S6. Name one fighter he has ducked. Consider that when the S6 ended who Bute immediately make offers to: Kessler, Pavlik, and Johnson. If you consider that Johnson really finished in third place in the S6 with all the injuries, Bute is fighting the best he could fight now.
Currently, at 168, the rankings should be in order: Ward, Froch, Bute, Johnson, Kessler (although I think his career at the top is over with injuries), Stieglitz, and Bika.
Froch has a good punch and Bute has an equally good punch. It may be that Bute has a bit more speed behind his punches so they are more powerful than Froch's. It may be that Froch is naturally stronger. There is no way to know unless you asked their common opponents. We'll see what Johnson says.
The way I see things playing out is that Ward beats Froch on the cards in a tough, grueling fight where Froch isn't outclassed but is beat by a few rounds. Then Ward and Bute (assuming Bute can get by Johnson) can't agree to terms and Bute will face Froch who has less leverage because he just lost. So, my bet is we'll see who wins between Bute and Froch in early-mid next year.
Admittedly, this all kind of reminds me of when Erics44 went on and on about David Haye when Haye hadn't fought anyone at all at heavyweight and those fights were boring as all hell. Erics was going completely on potential. In order to not fall into the category of irrationally believing in a guy who ultimately disappoints, I should probably wait to see what happens this weekend against Johnson. Johnson brings out the truth with everyone.
Agreed that he does need to get through the Johnson test there is never an easy nights work with Johnson. I do think Bute handles him though by a hard fought UD, probably quite similar to the Froch fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI don't know what the point of your post was. :chillpill: It's like everyone from Nottingham or a fan of Froch is offended by anything positive said about Bute. They aren't even slated to fight yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Hands down Froch has fought better competition. No one in their right mind would argue otherwise. In fact, Carl Froch has fought better opposition than Andre Ward. It's not that Bute has fought only tomato cans either; I don't consider Zuniga, Bika or Andrade to be chumps.
All this about Bute not fighting good opposition is hogwash. He didn't fight good opposition because all the big players were in the S6. Name one fighter he has ducked. Consider that when the S6 ended who Bute immediately make offers to: Kessler, Pavlik, and Johnson. If you consider that Johnson really finished in third place in the S6 with all the injuries, Bute is fighting the best he could fight now.
Currently, at 168, the rankings should be in order: Ward, Froch, Bute, Johnson, Kessler (although I think his career at the top is over with injuries), Stieglitz, and Bika.
Froch has a good punch and Bute has an equally good punch. It may be that Bute has a bit more speed behind his punches so they are more powerful than Froch's. It may be that Froch is naturally stronger. There is no way to know unless you asked their common opponents. We'll see what Johnson says.
The way I see things playing out is that Ward beats Froch on the cards in a tough, grueling fight where Froch isn't outclassed but is beat by a few rounds. Then Ward and Bute (assuming Bute can get by Johnson) can't agree to terms and Bute will face Froch who has less leverage because he just lost. So, my bet is we'll see who wins between Bute and Froch in early-mid next year.
Admittedly, this all kind of reminds me of when Erics44 went on and on about David Haye when Haye hadn't fought anyone at all at heavyweight and those fights were boring as all hell. Erics was going completely on potential. In order to not fall into the category of irrationally believing in a guy who ultimately disappoints, I should probably wait to see what happens this weekend against Johnson. Johnson brings out the truth with everyone.
I do admit that with the super 6 on it was harder for Bute to get a shot at the elite of 168. But to his credit bar the andrade Hickup which he did avenge, he has looked quality in his fights and will no doubt be the hardest test around for Ward and Froch after the final. My feelings towards Bute is that he has missed out In taking part of a great tournament that would have been even better for the fans had he taken part. It is a shame, but as you said before he now has the potential to be matched against strong fighters and I hope he does. He's 31 now and needs to push on with the best. Let's hope there is no bullshit promotion politics and we can see the best continuing to fight the best. The 168 weight class has had some great fights and I hope Bute gets in the mix.
I can surely see a KO for Bute here. I put a few $$ on it also. Johnson is getting older and Bute is a big puncher . Altough a UD seems more probable , I wouldnt count a Ko out for Bute.
Hey, if Johnson catches Bute with a big shot, he can get the KO
but, i'm saying Bute UD
that isnt a great bet mateQuote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
there is more chance of johnson winning the fight than bute winning by KO
in order of chances of stuff happening in this fight i would say
1st Bute on points
2nd Johnson by KO
3rd Johnson on points
4th Bute by KO
id say 1st is a long distance from 2nd and 4th is a long distance from 3rd
in fact these two could fight 100 times and 70 of them Bute would win on points, 20 of them Johnson by KO and 10 of them johnson on points, Bute by KO is never gonna happenQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44that isnt a great bet mateQuote:
Originally Posted by gest12645
there is more chance of johnson winning the fight than bute winning by KO
in order of chances of stuff happening in this fight i would say
1st Bute on points
2nd Johnson by KO
3rd Johnson on points
4th Bute by KO
id say 1st is a long distance from 2nd and 4th is a long distance from 3rd
Bute won't stop Johnson and I agree as has been suggested that Bute is well overrated. He hasn't really beaten anyone who wasn't mediocre or is decent but hasn't been duffed up already.
agreed we'll see what he's made of, I don't think he's as good as people think.
Ward would probably school Bute.
Dirrell would as well, if he'd ever fight again.
Bute is pretty good, I don't know who would win between him and Froch. Carl seems to have a bit more guts and stamina though. Not quite as talented as Bute.
I think Johnson is a live underdog, but not as live as I felt he was against Froch or others in recent years.
There is no doubt Johnson is hurt a bit by the weight and age is catching up to the gladiator.
Hulk, why do you think dirrell and ward woulf beat up on bute but froch wouldnt?
Is it a styles thing?
SPEED.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
They are faster than Bute.
But, Froch is not.
Bute thrives when he is faster than the opponent, I think he would be befuddled by the movement of Ward or Dirrell.
Maybe maybe not
I agree in a way bute might have more success with froch
Personally i think his best chance out of the three would be ward, i think ward is easier to catch than dirrell and not as tough as froch
After the way he dismantled Johnson yesterday and the way he even sgaggered him on 2 occasions, i am miore than confident that Froch wouldn't win against Bute, rumors are that there is talks with him for his next fight, that would be great and that would probably mean that I'll have a few peoples lines up for an avatar/sig bet *grins*. After that, it'll be probably Ward. At least, that would make sense, I am more afraid of this fight because Ward fights damn dirty and because he has dazzling speed. We'll see, one step at the time but now I am 100% convinced (even though I was still very confident about that before) that Bute will do a number on Froch.
Hulk - I don't think Ward is a particularly fast or athletic fighter and he doesn't win because of his athleticism anyway. Bute and Ward are probably comparable in athleticism. Ward is more highly skilled though. Dirrell might be faster than Bute. When are you going to give Bute any credit? I mean damn man. You disparage the guy after he more thoroughly dominated Johnson than anyone has in a while, since Dawson did on his second try. Just last fight, Johnson lost a mixed decision against Froch whereas against Bute he won only one round on three judge's scorecards. Only one round, mate. I would be naive to say that Bute would definitely beat Ward. It's a close fight. I like Ward's desire to win more and I like his chin more. I like Bute's athleticism and speed more. At the same time, Bute has done better against their common opponents (see Miranda and Bika). I also think Froch and Bute would make for a better fight.