I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
Andre Ward may be the best technician in boxing today.
Ward has better feet than Mayweather, I think his balance may be better, he controls hands and distancing as well, he probably creates angles better. I'll say Mayweather counters more effectively but Ward is more comfortable getting off first. I think think Ward sees the fight and seizes openings as well as Mayweather.
As an added bonus, Ward seems willing to fight everyone (Mayweather not so much) so he has a warrior's spirit.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
The difference is Ward watched Mayweather to pick up techniques for his game, not the other way around.
Andre is great but no one touches Floyd in terms of technical ability; he's forgotton more than the majority of modern fighters will ever know.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
What were you watching? He's better at none of those things technically. He had a hard time getting off last night, he got tagged way more against a guy like Froch than Floyd would have. Floyd lands much more solidly than Ward which is why he has gotten more knockouts, especially when you compare his early career to Ward's. Floyd gets the best angles I've yet to see. Sure he could always improve at it, but he gets the most minute angles and makes the most of them. You can tell because he almost always is in better position than his opponent. part of why Floyd has better counter punching than Ward is because of his superior defensive skills, while Ward has great reflexes and technique, Floyd "Feels" his opponent coming in, you see going backwards in response to his opponents punches almost absorbing the force of the punches and he comes as the force receeds like he's riding a wave. This is boxing at the highest level and almost nobody truly does this. Hopkins does it to a degree, Roy Jones did it second best, Manny does it offensively, but he doesn't have it defensively at all. I'm not sure how to best describe it, but once you start going off this feeling it changes footwork, angles, everything you do in there. You suddenly aren't overusing footwork to find obvious angles, instead you are slipping into an angle without your opponent knowing. Floyd feints and slides, and how many times is his opponents caught unaware when that right hand hits them? It isn't just hand and foot speed that makes Floyd so good, its everything he does to set up those shots. The scary thing is he is honestly getting better. He is developing the same skills Hopkins did to still avoid punches from a fast guys like Pascal and Dawson at 46. It's not maintained reflexes, simply a higher level of technique that compensates for it. For the most part reflexes only go so far anyways, it's mostly a high level of sensitivity to what the opponent is going to do that makes a guy elusive in the first place.
Could he get to where Floyd is? I think potentially, Floyd wasn't where he is now when he was 27, he did a lot of things more inefficiently than he does now. He also had a different type of speed than Ward which helped him get away with things Ward couldn't.
The one thing I would advise Ward to do is fight a southpaw, once Floyd fight Demarcus Corley it really developed his right hand. Ward really needs to learn how to throw it, and it would make his night much easier. Against Froch and other guys it looks so weak, with very little snap or body weight behind it.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
Ward like Floyd is extemely smart and versatile.
They can both fight anyway they want whether it be on the outside boxing, on the inside, out of clinches, etc.
I think Floyd has the better ability though. He's sharper with his work and get's hit less.
Ward compares better with Hopkins stylistically.
The fact you can actually compare Ward to Floyd shows how much ability Ward has and how great he will be once his career is over.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
I think Ward is brilliant.
Not quite as fast as Mayweather was, but the real interesting thing is that Mayweather is only been into his bag of tricks during the last 2-3 years, Ward has been fighting like that form day 1. (hence I would kinda agree with the 'more like Hopkins' line).
To me, it shows his maturity and competence that he is not one of these guys that just jump around throwing big punches (not that he can't).
But to truly compare the two is impossible, obviously Floyd is a 5 weight world champion and has been in championship fights almost non stop since the age of 18.
Ward has a LONG way to go yet. But he is pretty fucking brilliant and he will be a long term success, if he wants to be.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
Am i the only one who thinks he's nowhere near as good as Mayweather? He's good, but let's not go overboard.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
I have to disagree. Ward is good and probably second after mayweather.
hypothetically speaking if that was Floyd last night with Froch, I think Floyd would win without a mark on his face and Froch would have been alot more reluctant to throw punches and would have got beat badly. Ward's good but he's not on mayweather's level yet.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
Yes Ward is if anything an apprentice to Floyd. There are aspects of Wards ability that can compare to floyds but they still dont have the finesse and polish that maywether has. Ward even said he studied Floyd before entering the fight with Froch. Mayweather has an invincible ability to avoid punishment from every angle of the ring.With that type of ability he is able to dictate how the fight is fought and counter punch effectively. A difference between the two would certainly be Ward's willingness to bang with you on the inside as we saw against Froch. He used his elboys and forearms to muscle Froch around and land blows while Money would rather draw you in and land the 1,2 and slide out of harms way.
Still I think they are very similar in many aspects but Ward is still young and has a lot of work to do to be considered a superior "boxer" than Floyd.\
one thing they certainly share is their knowledge of how to never lose.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
Floyd fought much better fighters than Froch and got hit less than half as much as Ward did while doing it.
Floyd is on another level.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
How can anyone evaluate Wards greatness off of a fight like this.
Carl Froch regardless of what the scorecards say is not that good of a fighter and his super six performances show this. Yes he made it to the final somehow.
Froch was losing to Taylor in his first super six fight and got lucky when Taylor tired and ended up with the win by TKO, he lost to Andre Dirrell in his second only to get a gift decision, he lost to Mikkel Kessler. He won against an old weight drained light heavy Glen Johnson. The only fight he won decisively was against Abraham who was a blown up middle who dosen't throw punches.
If you count Dirrell he lost more then anyone in the super six and was most likely the least talented. The only thing going for him is his heart and stamina which is enough only some of the time.
Andre Ward is the best Super middle out there and when he beats up Bute everyone will agree. But he is from from a great at this point in his career.
I don't know why Bute has such good standing either, he's been spoon fed opponents and got knocked out in the process, he was knocked out and he got the Win, not many can do that, maybe that's why he's on some pedestal.
Ward beats him Easy.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
What are people smoking?! Ward is in no shape or form close to Floyd...and I say that as a fan of Ward's (i am an Oakland native). As Taeth wrote...Floyd fights with a fluidity and "feeling" that is unsurpassed in boxing today. He is equal parts brilliant ATHLETE and TECHNICIAN. But more than that...he has an almost sixth sense about what he is doing in the ring. It just all looks so effortless. Ward is a great young fighter. But someone like Floyd doesn't come around very often.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
Such reverence for a flawed, but highly skilled champion; Floyd's competition has been good but his avoidance of the Pacquiao fight is glaring, he has some stops but his most recent one was against a man that was trying to kiss him and there haven't been that many at a high level.
Even those of you that are die hard fans of Floyd have to admit his legacy is mixed, marred by inactivity, and an inability to make the one fight everyone wanted to see (he is certainly not solely to blame for that).
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stebs
How can anyone evaluate Wards greatness off of a fight like this.
Carl Froch regardless of what the scorecards say is not that good of a fighter and his super six performances show this. Yes he made it to the final somehow.
Froch was losing to Taylor in his first super six fight and got lucky when Taylor tired and ended up with the win by TKO, he lost to Andre Dirrell in his second only to get a gift decision, he lost to Mikkel Kessler. He won against an old weight drained light heavy Glen Johnson. The only fight he won decisively was against Abraham who was a blown up middle who dosen't throw punches.
If you count Dirrell he lost more then anyone in the super six and was most likely the least talented. The only thing going for him is his heart and stamina which is enough only some of the time.
Andre Ward is the best Super middle out there and when he beats up Bute everyone will agree. But he is from from a great at this point in his career.
I don't know why Bute has such good standing either, he's been spoon fed opponents and got knocked out in the process, he was knocked out and he got the Win, not many can do that, maybe that's why he's on some pedestal.
Ward beats him Easy.
I believe the Taylor fight against Froch came before the Super Six.
Anyways . . .
How do you see Ward against . . .
Anthony Dirrell(#1 contender)
Andre Dirrell(we got cheated out of that fight)
Bute(to be the best, you have to beat the best and Bute was the best before the Super Six)
Hopkins(the old vet)
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ant Live
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stebs
How can anyone evaluate Wards greatness off of a fight like this.
Carl Froch regardless of what the scorecards say is not that good of a fighter and his super six performances show this. Yes he made it to the final somehow.
Froch was losing to Taylor in his first super six fight and got lucky when Taylor tired and ended up with the win by TKO, he lost to Andre Dirrell in his second only to get a gift decision, he lost to Mikkel Kessler. He won against an old weight drained light heavy Glen Johnson. The only fight he won decisively was against Abraham who was a blown up middle who dosen't throw punches.
If you count Dirrell he lost more then anyone in the super six and was most likely the least talented. The only thing going for him is his heart and stamina which is enough only some of the time.
Andre Ward is the best Super middle out there and when he beats up Bute everyone will agree. But he is from from a great at this point in his career.
I don't know why Bute has such good standing either, he's been spoon fed opponents and got knocked out in the process, he was knocked out and he got the Win, not many can do that, maybe that's why he's on some pedestal.
Ward beats him Easy.
I believe the Taylor fight against Froch came before the Super Six.
Anyways . . .
How do you see Ward against . . .
Anthony Dirrell(#1 contender)
Andre Dirrell(we got cheated out of that fight)
Bute(to be the best, you have to beat the best and Bute was the best before the Super Six)
Hopkins(the old vet)
I see ward beating them all, Dirrell I think is a very good boxer, I think what he lacks is Carl Froch's strengths, toughness, will and heart. I also think he was #2 in boxing talent in the super six behind Ward, he may even better then Ward in the pure boxing department, but it takes more then just talent to win sometimes.
Bute is an easy win for Ward, Ward has to much of everything for Bute except maybe his power, which would be Butes only chance.
Hopkins you never know with him, he's one of the slickest out there but it's been proven by several he can be beaten and I think Ward has all the talent he needs to win against Hopkins. With Hopkins age and slow starts you just never know but if I was to bet on that fight my money would be on Ward to win an easy decision if there is such a thing anymore.
You seen after 10 rds of Ward and Froch one judge had it even at that point, at that point I had given Froch one round and one even round, My final score for the fight was 118-111 Ward.
I believe your correct about when Froch and Taylor fought, I thought it was the first round of the tournament.
I just seen Anthony Dirrell on your list, sorry I know very little of Anthony so I have no opinion on that fight.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
In the last two and a half years we have been bombarded with Mayweather and the Pacman and forget that there are other fighters. Maybe Ward is not as good as Mayweather but he is young and has not reached Floyd's experience level but he fought a tough although not brilliant opponent in Froch and won in a division where he is now considered to be at the top. This fight is over and you are only as good or as bad as your last battle. He was not hurt and he was technically sound and he has improved with each fight so what is the problem? He doesn't have a great punch but he was in shape and his accumulation of landed punches outnumbered those of Froch. He is a work in progress and like anything else there's always next time. Floyd is not a person I would hang around and Ward is not that bad but when I get out the beers and the chips and sandwiches and I sit in front of my TV I am a fan looking to see the best fight cable TV can bring me and being abrasive or disliked is forgotten after the bell rings. I am a fan and all the rest is bullshit.
Re: I tried not to let Mayweather's like-ability or Ward's abrasiveness influence me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Am i the only one who thinks he's nowhere near as good as Mayweather? He's good, but let's not go overboard.
Ward is not even close to being as talented as Mayweather, and he'll never be as marketable or as popular. As for Ward being a "great" fighter, I think that's fucking laughable.
