Kevin Rooney: "Mormeck has mastered the style of Tyson's prime"

:vd:

Well ross, what do you think of this? I think a tiny little cruiserweight is going to get demolished by Wladimir when they finally fight.

At least Kevin Rooney is training someone getting a title shot, heck if Jean Marc does well maybe others will use him, but Kev has talked up this fight big time and how Mormeck has studied Tyson, how Tyson fought & beat taller guys, and those were the reasons they took the fight.


I'm just going to go ahead and throw out my reasons why Mormeck using Tyson's style won't work: Wlad isn't scared of him, Mormeck doesn't have the power, Mormeck doesn't have the chin, and Wlad's style is perfect to make anyone not dynamic with that peekaboo style look like a chump. But that's just how I see it.

Tyson fans????

It's a crap fight and Mormeck is not prime Tyson. Trainers always talk shit, so why should we get excited by this? :confused:

Wlad is rubbish and concedes it by accepting that his brother is better. Tyson would destroy him.

Sounds like Kevin Rooney has hit the bottle again :drinker:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Wlad is rubbish and concedes it by accepting that his brother is better. Tyson would destroy him.

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That's something called humility....perhaps you've, naaaah you've never heard of it

The whole Tyson-Wlad match is an erroneous concept, I just found it humorous that #1 Kevin Rooney has been hired by a boxer with a shot at a title and #2 Jean Marc Mormeck of all people has "mastered" the Tyson style.


As for Rooney, the "Tyson style", etc....there's a ton of stocky little dudes out there that can punch, especially in the heavyweight division, so why has Rooney had so little success outside of Tyson?...perhaps because there are flaws with that system just as with any other, but the flaws in this system are easier to expose and have NEVER produced a top notch fighter that stayed at the top for an extended period of time the way other styles have done?

I'll give you that part of the answer is that Tyson's intangibles, chin, handspeed, power, size, were just there and filled in the gaps in this system, but to me though exciting, that technique was not built for the long haul and could be exploited easily by other styles.

Oh, and Tyson was so easily exploited in his prime. Was he heck, he was great and it wasn't down to Rooney. You cannot make Mormeck a Tyson. Tyson was special and incredibly so.

Rooney is talking shit, but that is no reason to bring down Tyson who was a wonderful fighter.

I find it humorous that Mormeck is even in the ring with Wlad... Let alone that rooney has trained him to master the peekaboo style

Poor Kevin. Still trying to shake off that brutal Arguello right hand. But I thought this steaming pile of a gimme, erm, I mean fight was off ???

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Poor Kevin. Still trying to shake off that brutal Arguello right hand. But I thought this steaming pile of a gimme, erm, I mean fight was off ???

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Well #1 I agree, this fight DOES suck...Wlad said "Mormeck was the only one that stepped forward to take the fight" #2 Corrie Sanders was like the 11th choice for the fight vs Wlad all those years ago, so you never know #3 The fight has been postponed until February or March, I don't know...not that I'm happy about it.


miles, I am not bringing Tyson down I gave Tyson credit for the success of his own style because Tyson was the only guy at the time who hand the intangibles to make the style LESS vulnerable. Tyson had power, handspeed, athletic ability, good size, a killer instinct and a solid chin. Mike Tyson is the reason there have been no more Mike Tyson's (in any weight class) he was the guy who fit the bill perfectly for who you have to be to use that style effectively. Look at Rooney's most recent talents and how little they've produced Thomas Hayes heavyweight out of Chicago DESTROYED by Cris Arreola, Leonard Pierre Anasta of Haiti DEMOLISHED by Kelly Pavlik....those were Rooney's BEST fighters!!!

It's funny you mention Arguello-Rooney Spicoli, because that's almost what Wlad-Mormeck is

Dunno Lyle, just can't put lipstick on this pig. He'd have a tougher night at the putt putt course on a stormy night ;D Mormeck isn't Tyson, shoot he's not even Sanders who had actually ko'd a -heavyweight- or ten in his career. If I could sad click Wlad for this one I would.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Dunno Lyle, just can't put lipstick on this pig. He'd have a tougher night at the putt putt course on a stormy night ;D Mormeck isn't Tyson, shoot he's not even Sanders who had actually ko'd a -heavyweight- or ten in his career. If I could sad click Wlad for this one I would.

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I would too, but let's remember everyone was down on Wlad when the Chisora fight was being bandied about...it looked like a horrible mismatch and yet in the eyes of many he was completely robbed against Robert Helenius whom (again in the eyes of many) is considered to be the biggest threat to the Klitschko's. Of course, Mormeck is old, and a cruiserweight and IMO there were much better fights to be made out there.

Anything beyond 5 rounds and not ending in the devistating KO of Mormeck may as well be counted as a loss for Wlad

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Oh, and Tyson was so easily exploited in his prime. Was he heck, he was great and it wasn't down to Rooney. You cannot make Mormeck a Tyson. Tyson was special and incredibly so.

Rooney is talking shit, but that is no reason to bring down Tyson who was a wonderful fighter.

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i agree with this , Mormeck is nowhere near as effective as Tyson was in his prime...certainly a weird comment by Kevin Rooney

Just because he has mastered the style does not mean he will beat Wlad. I could master the style but Wlad is still beating the shit out of me.

:vd:

You gotta feel a little bit sorry for Wlad and Vitali. They will be judged on being good in a shitty era of heavyweights but who is there to fight at top level?? Just looking at how out of shape the heavies of today are makes me switch off instantly. Can we feed Tyson Fury to the Wlad please? Honestly, everytime Wlad or Vitali fight it might as well be feeding time at the zoo

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

:vd:

Well ross, what do you think of this?

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You cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Iv seen Mormeck fight and Tyson he isnt. Tyson wouldnt lose to Oneil Bell and David Haye;D

Mormeck doesnt have the quickness to move and throw combinations, he doesnt take a good shot and hes not really a puncher either.

Rooney is getting paid, dont forget that. Hes not going to say "I was offered good money to train this old small has been but I dont think he has a chance"

I think Mormeck gets stopped before the half way mark but I will be interested to see if he can use the head movement if only for a round. If Mormeck has any success using Tysons style and I mean, looking competative before Wlads size tells, that more fighters will go to Rooney. You do need to be athletic and quick to have success with the style, a chin and power arent really the be all and end all because the style is focussed on the two main aspects of boxing, not getting hit and landing punches. Floyd Patterson didnt have the greatest chin or the biggest punch butbhe had good success because he was quick. Mormeck isnt.

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Originally Posted by ross

You cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Iv seen Mormeck fight and Tyson he isnt. Tyson wouldnt lose to Oneil Bell and David Haye;D

Mormeck doesnt have the quickness to move and throw combinations, he doesnt take a good shot and hes not really a puncher either.

Rooney is getting paid, dont forget that. Hes not going to say "I was offered good money to train this old small has been but I dont think he has a chance"

I think Mormeck gets stopped before the half way mark but I will be interested to see if he can use the head movement if only for a round. If Mormeck has any success using Tysons style and I mean, looking competative before Wlads size tells, that more fighters will go to Rooney. You do need to be athletic and quick to have success with the style, a chin and power arent really the be all and end all because the style is focussed on the two main aspects of boxing, not getting hit and landing punches. Floyd Patterson didnt have the greatest chin or the biggest punch butbhe had good success because he was quick. Mormeck isnt.

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I know Rooney is getting paid ross, and it's not uncommon for a trainer to have overwhelming confidence in his charge, but this is ridiculous.

Floyd Patterson didn't have the biggest punch??? He had great power for such a little guy...he damn near killed Johanssen in their rematch. Yes he had quick hands and good head movement too, but his chin failed him where Tyson's did not....still doesn't make the style all that great though tall guys that can box using their height and reach, especially ones like Wlad that can hook off the jab can keep the low crouch peekaboo style fighters at bay.

I'm hard pressed to think of good fighters over the past 5-10 years that would have actually benefitted from the peekaboo style....Ricky Hatton maybe? Sam Peter was just too slow to use it, same with Arreola, Tavoris Cloud maybe? I just do not think it's all that great of a style because you have to have a certain skill set to even think of using it....it's great for short little stocky power punchers, and pressure fighters, but that's about it.

Your right, there have been shite fighters at heavy over the last 10 years. None would have beaten the old tired Lewis;)

There havent been any and there is none that are quick and coordinated rather than just big and strong.

A lot of the top heavies now are europeans who have done well after years of amateur comp. None have been rushed through the amateur scene because the trainer realises he has a massive talent that could make a lot of people a lot of money fighting in the pros. Not since Tyson has a fighter of only 18 had the expectations of becoming THE heavyweight champ with no worry of the current comp that included Holmes getting in their way.

Ya have to be a touch crazy to make that style work like Tyson did too. Block the odd shot with your forehead and growl and snarl more as you smash their fists out of the way to make room for whats coming for them. Was a fun time ;D.

Mormeck couldn't even beat tyson right now. What did he master the biting ? I could see him practicing and getting good at that. But that's about it

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Originally Posted by ross

Your right, there have been shite fighters at heavy over the last 10 years. None would have beaten the old tired Lewis;)

There havent been any and there is none that are quick and coordinated rather than just big and strong.

A lot of the top heavies now are europeans who have done well after years of amateur comp. None have been rushed through the amateur scene because the trainer realises he has a massive talent that could make a lot of people a lot of money fighting in the pros. Not since Tyson has a fighter of only 18 had the expectations of becoming THE heavyweight champ with no worry of the current comp that included Holmes getting in their way.

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:rolleyes:

As per usual you sell the Klitschko's short, like they aren't quick and coordinated :shakehead: ...if the division was ruled by Bulk alone then Valuev would be king of the division.

Mike Tyson was a fighter of tremendous skill, but his style was flawed and no matter who teaches it to who it IS a flawed style. If Tyson stayed with Cus and Cus lived Tyson would have lost, had Tyson stayed with Rooney, Tyson would have lost. The guy only defended his titles a few times, and after he lost them he was never THE Heavyweight Champion again, he was just a paper champion. the biggest challenges he fought in his career he lost to, he never got off the canvas to win, and hell sometimes the guy just gave up.

The Cus D'Mato STYLE is a flawed system that has been hyped up because of Mike Tyson's early career successes...if it was so great everyone would use it

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by ross

Your right, there have been shite fighters at heavy over the last 10 years. None would have beaten the old tired Lewis;)

There havent been any and there is none that are quick and coordinated rather than just big and strong.

A lot of the top heavies now are europeans who have done well after years of amateur comp. None have been rushed through the amateur scene because the trainer realises he has a massive talent that could make a lot of people a lot of money fighting in the pros. Not since Tyson has a fighter of only 18 had the expectations of becoming THE heavyweight champ with no worry of the current comp that included Holmes getting in their way.

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:rolleyes:

As per usual you sell the Klitschko's short, like they aren't quick and coordinated :shakehead: ...if the division was ruled by Bulk alone then Valuev would be king of the division.

Mike Tyson was a fighter of tremendous skill, but his style was flawed and no matter who teaches it to who it IS a flawed style. If Tyson stayed with Cus and Cus lived Tyson would have lost, had Tyson stayed with Rooney, Tyson would have lost. The guy only defended his titles a few times, and after he lost them he was never THE Heavyweight Champion again, he was just a paper champion. the biggest challenges he fought in his career he lost to, he never got off the canvas to win, and hell sometimes the guy just gave up.

The Cus D'Mato STYLE is a flawed system that has been hyped up because of Mike Tyson's early career successes...if it was so great everyone would use it

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If selling the Klitschkos short is saying they couldnt beat an old Lewis, you need to reavaluate how good you think they are. Or Vitali at least!

No other heavy has tried the Tyson "style" because they dont have rhe confidence to stay in range and avoid getting hit, and having the skill to get the shots through themselves.

Mike only struggled when he stopped fighting how he was taught in the first place. There is a masive difference to the fighter that could bob and weave and rarely take a shot, like against Holmes to the fighter who stood and slugged with Rudduck.

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Originally Posted by ross

If selling the Klitschkos short is saying they couldnt beat an old Lewis, you need to reavaluate how good you think they are. Or Vitali at least!

No other heavy has tried the Tyson "style" because they dont have rhe confidence to stay in range and avoid getting hit, and having the skill to get the shots through themselves.

Mike only struggled when he stopped fighting how he was taught in the first place. There is a masive difference to the fighter that could bob and weave and rarely take a shot, like against Holmes to the fighter who stood and slugged with Rudduck.

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Vitali took the fight on short notice, he had been training to fight Cedric Boswell....did Vitali do poorly against Lennox? I mean sure the eye got cut, but aside from that did Vitali do poorly? He couldn't have done too poorly as he was winning rounds....so I fail to see why you bring up Lennox Lewis (a fighter who grew into his skill set) and a fight where Lennox got extremely lucky to cut Vitali like he did as an evidence that the Klitschko's are bad fighters.

Mike Tyson didn't struggle because he fought a whole bunch of bums, a half assed prepared Larry Holmes and Frank Bruno were probably the strongest competition he had before heading to prison. Donovan Ruddock was undisciplined which is why Tommy Morrison shelled him the way he did. But you just keep on believing that Tyson was some sort of unbeatable hulk, his record, and the records of the people using the Cus D'Mato style speak volumes.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmi...n-rooney_sport

80% chance...there you go man ;)

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by ross

If selling the Klitschkos short is saying they couldnt beat an old Lewis, you need to reavaluate how good you think they are. Or Vitali at least!

No other heavy has tried the Tyson "style" because they dont have rhe confidence to stay in range and avoid getting hit, and having the skill to get the shots through themselves.

Mike only struggled when he stopped fighting how he was taught in the first place. There is a masive difference to the fighter that could bob and weave and rarely take a shot, like against Holmes to the fighter who stood and slugged with Rudduck.

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Vitali took the fight on short notice, he had been training to fight Cedric Boswell....did Vitali do poorly against Lennox? I mean sure the eye got cut, but aside from that did Vitali do poorly? He couldn't have done too poorly as he was winning rounds....so I fail to see why you bring up Lennox Lewis (a fighter who grew into his skill set) and a fight where Lennox got extremely lucky to cut Vitali like he did as an evidence that the Klitschko's are bad fighters.

Mike Tyson didn't struggle because he fought a whole bunch of bums, a half assed prepared Larry Holmes and Frank Bruno were probably the strongest competition he had before heading to prison. Donovan Ruddock was undisciplined which is why Tommy Morrison shelled him the way he did. But you just keep on believing that Tyson was some sort of unbeatable hulk, his record, and the records of the people using the Cus D'Mato style speak volumes.

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Hold on. Did Lennox have any more notice of fighting Vitali than Vitali did of fighting Lennox? This notice stuff is bullshit. You can see that had Lewis had the right amount of notice Vitali may have been stopped earlier. Lennox was absolutely knackered! Fell on to his stool at the end! Had a fitter Lewis been in there, I doubt the cuts would have been an issue! At the end of the day, Vitali couldnt beat an old underprepared Lewis. He blew whatever chance he had at being regarded as great right there.

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by ross

If selling the Klitschkos short is saying they couldnt beat an old Lewis, you need to reavaluate how good you think they are. Or Vitali at least!

No other heavy has tried the Tyson "style" because they dont have rhe confidence to stay in range and avoid getting hit, and having the skill to get the shots through themselves.

Mike only struggled when he stopped fighting how he was taught in the first place. There is a masive difference to the fighter that could bob and weave and rarely take a shot, like against Holmes to the fighter who stood and slugged with Rudduck.

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Vitali took the fight on short notice, he had been training to fight Cedric Boswell....did Vitali do poorly against Lennox? I mean sure the eye got cut, but aside from that did Vitali do poorly? He couldn't have done too poorly as he was winning rounds....so I fail to see why you bring up Lennox Lewis (a fighter who grew into his skill set) and a fight where Lennox got extremely lucky to cut Vitali like he did as an evidence that the Klitschko's are bad fighters.

Mike Tyson didn't struggle because he fought a whole bunch of bums, a half assed prepared Larry Holmes and Frank Bruno were probably the strongest competition he had before heading to prison. Donovan Ruddock was undisciplined which is why Tommy Morrison shelled him the way he did. But you just keep on believing that Tyson was some sort of unbeatable hulk, his record, and the records of the people using the Cus D'Mato style speak volumes.

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Hold on. Did Lennox have any more notice of fighting Vitali than Vitali did of fighting Lennox? This notice stuff is bullshit. You can see that had Lewis had the right amount of notice Vitali may have been stopped earlier. Lennox was absolutely knackered! Fell on to his stool at the end! Had a fitter Lewis been in there, I doubt the cuts would have been an issue! At the end of the day, Vitali couldnt beat an old underprepared Lewis. He blew whatever chance he had at being regarded as great right there.

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So Vitali is not great due to a freak cut he suffered despite being well ahead on the scorecards? A rematch was not granted but was well warranted!!!

It's funny listening to Rooney trying to put a positive spin on Mormeck. I don't believe a word of what he's saying,
Rooney was a fucking clown even when he was training Tyson.

All the peekaboo style means is Mormeck wont see the punch comming that KO'S him

It wasn't the style that won Tyson the fights, it was the man himself.

You can't replicate that and you'll just look silly trying!

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmipo7_interview-kevin-rooney_sport

80% chance...there you go man ;)

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The years have not been kind to poor Rooney.

He actually looks a bit like Cus D'amato now.

Mormeck just about guarantees himself he won't make it out the first round

How is Tyson's style so badly flawed? Sure, for a taller fighter it isn't the best style but for a fighter who is significantly smaller or shorter there aren't really many better alternatives. What's flawed about slipping and bobbing under punches so you can counter, and keeping your gloves up high? I accept that maybe one of tyson's weaknesses was that he was weaker at fighting off the back foot but along with his power and attitude, his technique was key to beating taller opponents.

The style has its pros, certainly, but its not the end all be all.

The style isn't built for the long haul. The fighters that have used it have all faded out by their mid 20's. It takes a special fighter to use that style effectively and be successful.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

The style has its pros, certainly, but its not the end all be all.

The style isn't built for the long haul. The fighters that have used it have all faded out by their mid 20's. It takes a special fighter to use that style effectively and be successful.

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Yeah, I agree that it's not perfect and that it takes a certain fighter to make it work. But I don't think thats any less true for other styles. You could say the same thing about floyd mayweather's style and the philly shell. I've seen a fair few fighters use it, and get punished because it has the flaw of having one hand down and thus is quite reliant on reflexes. it takes a special kind of fighter like mayweather and toney to really be successful with it.

I agree its not the end all be all. I can see that it takes a certain amount of athleticism and stamina to work, but I am interested to know what exactly you feel its flaws are. It may or may not be the case that it can only work with a special fighter, but what is intrinsic in the style that makes you think so?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Dunno Lyle, just can't put lipstick on this pig. He'd have a tougher night at the putt putt course on a stormy night ;D Mormeck isn't Tyson, shoot he's not even Sanders who had actually ko'd a -heavyweight- or ten in his career. If I could sad click Wlad for this one I would.

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I would too, but let's remember everyone was down on Wlad when the Chisora fight was being bandied about...it looked like a horrible mismatch and yet in the eyes of many he was completely robbed against Robert Helenius whom (again in the eyes of many) is considered to be the biggest threat to the Klitschko's. Of course, Mormeck is old, and a cruiserweight and IMO there were much better fights to be made out there.

Anything beyond 5 rounds and not ending in the devistating KO of Mormeck may as well be counted as a loss for Wlad

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I don't see Wlad getting Mormeck out that early Lyle. It's not that he can't, it's that he still won't take the chances needed to do so, which is why his popularity isn't what other HW champs of the past has been.

@bestjabwins: Well the flaws of the D'Mato/Rooney/Tyson system are just as I said 1. Not built for the long haul 2. Not built for fighters that lack power, athletic ability, or other certain skills and 3. It's a difficult style to use to just outbox someone. Patterson, Tyson, Torres...those guys were very skilled, they had the intangibles to make the style work but all of them were finished at the top by their mid 20's. Look at Eddie Futch's style, he taught his fighters how to WIN not just a certain style, he trained 4 of the 5 guys that beat Ali...they could win by KO, but they could also win on points. The D'Mato style is dynamic, but it's simply a power punching pressure fighting style and although as a fan I enjoy it, if I picked up boxing again I wouldn't use it myself.

@rjjtszyu Wlad got Ray Austin out in 2...if Mormeck comes right at Wlad the way the Rooney style is built I'm certain a right cross or left hook should hurt Mormeck enough to allow Wlad to step on the gas....I agree with you Wlad doesn't finish as strong as guys like Foreman, Tyson, and Frazier have before him but he needs to start doing it more often especially in fights like this one