Carl froch vs lucian bute who wins and why
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Carl froch vs lucian bute who wins and why
Froch by KO
coz he's a beast
No seriously!!
Froch would walk on to that right uppercut all day wouldn't he?
overrated right upper cut
neutral ground froch would win
in canada bute would have a chance
I can't get my head around why froch would go to Canada when he said he wants to fight at home????
Bute would win cause hes better
From what I read after the S6 finale, there would be two fights. The first would be in Montreal and the second in Nottingham.I imagine they would sell a lot of tickets in both locales. Frankly, I'm looking forward to these battles as any in boxing. I expect Froch will make Bute go through hell for a win. I'm a Bute fan so you know my prediction, but I like Froch's attitude. He's a hard man. To be fair, I see scenarios where both men win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
Does anyone know who Ward thought was his toughest opponent in the tournament?
I'd say froch gave him more pressure. The official scores suggest the fight was closer than we think, to be fair froch did land to the body often. Ward was very tired in last two rounds whilst froch was jogging to close the gap
I believe you are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
You are the first to agree which means you know more about this sport than anyone on here lolQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI believe you are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
Froch has a chance of hurting Bute , but for me he is to open , 60 / 40 in favour of Bute for me.
Could go either way, but i would go for Bute and I would go for him to be the first to stop Froch late on.
Froch in the UK, Bute in Canada.
Froch only has two losses against Kessler and Ward. I thought Froch only has himself to blame for his loss against Kessler. In any event, the fight was tight. His win over Dirrell was a win but barely. The only times Froch has been visibly hurt was against Dirrell at one point in the fight and against Jermain Taylor when Taylor put him down. Both times it was because of fast punches Froch didn't see. That brings me to my main point. What I've seen with Froch is that on the world stage, he just is a little bit slow. In other words, he struggles with speed. Ward's inside game was tough but really it was his speed that was the difference. Dirrell had the same advantage but that night he didn't have the mental game to compete with Froch. Taylor fared similarly. Therefore, if Bute brings his "A" mental game, I believe his speed will be the difference in their fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The other thing is that I haven't seen Bute lose very many rounds ever. Similarly, that is the case with Ward. I've seen Bute lose a round here or there, but I can't think of the last time he lost consecutive rounds or struggled in a fight that wasn't due to fatigue.
Froch is different. Froch has frequently struggled. It's quite normal of course for elite fighters to struggle with elite fighters. It's just against similar opponents, Bute didn't struggle.
Clearly, Froch would be the trickiest opponent Bute has been up against and I see Bute having some problems deconstructing Froch's unorthodox style and his length. To be fair, there are good arguments on both sides of the fence. If Froch can maintain distance maybe he can outjab Bute and control the pace of the fight. It's entirely possible. Maybe he can outlast Bute in a tough fight and knock him out at the end. What's more likely, however, is that Bute's speed will be the difference here like it was for Ward.
I've been watching froch fights from his debut again and have noticed he or he seems faster before 30 years of age, watch him against Damon Hague and Henry porras in Hollywood and tell me whats different from then to now and give your pros and cons
The difference is that he was in against crap competition then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
At the elite level, I've never though much of Froch. Big heart, great chin, but very slow and very poor fundamentals. So easy to hit.
It's hard to say anything with confidence about Bute, since he hasn't faced anyone better than a super-faded 45 year-old Glen Johnson, but I'd still pick him to beat Froch. The only attribute where Froch has the advantage is chin, but Bute's not an eggshell like Jermain Taylor so I don't think that's much of an issue anyway.
I think a little higher of Froch than Shza may because he has been able to earn wins against Glen Johnson, Andre Dirrell, and Jean Pascal. They're all quality combatants.Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaThe difference is that he was in against crap competition then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
At the elite level, I've never though much of Froch. Big heart, great chin, but very slow and very poor fundamentals. So easy to hit.
It's hard to say anything with confidence about Bute, since he hasn't faced anyone better than a super-faded 45 year-old Glen Johnson, but I'd still pick him to beat Froch. The only attribute where Froch has the advantage is chin, but Bute's not an eggshell like Jermain Taylor so I don't think that's much of an issue anyway.
As to Bute, Glen Johnson and Sakio Bika are both legitimate opponents. Not elite opponents like Ward and Froch, but compotent opponents nonetheless and he performed as expected. Froch is the next step in his progression.
If you don't think much of Froch, does Ward still remain not proven in your eyes? I would argue Froch is Ward's best win. Other than Froch, it's Kessler, but I'm not sure how high I rate this version of Kessler. He seems to be injury-prone and on his last leg.
I said before the Froch fight that it would be a wide and easy fight for Ward, and it was exactly that.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI think a little higher of Froch than Shza may because he has been able to earn wins against Glen Johnson, Andre Dirrell, and Jean Pascal. They're all quality combatants.Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaThe difference is that he was in against crap competition then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
At the elite level, I've never though much of Froch. Big heart, great chin, but very slow and very poor fundamentals. So easy to hit.
It's hard to say anything with confidence about Bute, since he hasn't faced anyone better than a super-faded 45 year-old Glen Johnson, but I'd still pick him to beat Froch. The only attribute where Froch has the advantage is chin, but Bute's not an eggshell like Jermain Taylor so I don't think that's much of an issue anyway.
As to Bute, Glen Johnson and Sakio Bika are both legitimate opponents. Not elite opponents like Ward and Froch, but compotent opponents nonetheless and he performed as expected. Froch is the next step in his progression.
If you don't think much of Froch, does Ward still remain not proven in your eyes? I would argue Froch is Ward's best win. Other than Froch, it's Kessler, but I'm not sure how high I rate this version of Kessler. He seems to be injury-prone and on his last leg.
But so is Ward "proven"? He's certainly not "all time great" proven but he's about as proven as he could be, given the competition. I consider the Klitchkos proven too. Like them, it's notable and important that he's dropped very few rounds against the other guys at the top of the division, B+ fighters though they may be (the Klitchkos' competition has been basically C-level fighters, though no fault of theirs).
I do think Kessler is a better win than Froch though, yes. "This version of Kessler" was still good enough to beat Froch, anyway (though it was, as I've said previously, the sloppiest and most amatueurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters).
I also thought Froch lost to Dirrell, though I can understand how judges who value aggression over defense and skill could score it the other way. But I would definitely pick Dirrell in a rematch.
I would like to see Ward against Dirrell and Bute and then ultimately against Chad Dawson. That one would be a true test.
So, then I'm assuming just for the sake of discussion that if Bute beats Froch and/or Kessler he's as proven as Ward is. I'm not saying he'll do either of those for sure, but I expect him to.Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaBut so is Ward "proven"? He's certainly not "all time great" proven but he's about as proven as he could be, given the competition. I consider the Klitchkos proven too. Like them, it's notable and important that he's dropped very few rounds against the other guys at the top of the division, B+ fighters though they may be (the Klitchkos' competition has been basically C-level fighters, though no fault of theirs).Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI think a little higher of Froch than Shza may because he has been able to earn wins against Glen Johnson, Andre Dirrell, and Jean Pascal. They're all quality combatants.Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaThe difference is that he was in against crap competition then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropanuke
At the elite level, I've never though much of Froch. Big heart, great chin, but very slow and very poor fundamentals. So easy to hit.
It's hard to say anything with confidence about Bute, since he hasn't faced anyone better than a super-faded 45 year-old Glen Johnson, but I'd still pick him to beat Froch. The only attribute where Froch has the advantage is chin, but Bute's not an eggshell like Jermain Taylor so I don't think that's much of an issue anyway.
As to Bute, Glen Johnson and Sakio Bika are both legitimate opponents. Not elite opponents like Ward and Froch, but compotent opponents nonetheless and he performed as expected. Froch is the next step in his progression.
If you don't think much of Froch, does Ward still remain not proven in your eyes? I would argue Froch is Ward's best win. Other than Froch, it's Kessler, but I'm not sure how high I rate this version of Kessler. He seems to be injury-prone and on his last leg.
In all honesty froch is old now. The froch from 2005 used to run around the ring and have prince Naseem reflexes but now seems hittable but then again he has had numerous leg and knee operations, hence why he kicks his leg backwards during most fights
Absolutely. I expect him to as well, and I'll then very much look forward to a Ward-Bute fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I'd like to see Ward fight Anthony and then Andre Dirrell while Bute fights Froch and Kessler, and then see Ward-Bute, assuming both win the previous fights.
If Andre Dirrell's on, he could give Ward a run for his money though. I think he's a better opponent than Froch or Kessler.
Yes, last Saturday's fight wasn't indicative of very much in my opinion. Aren't Dirrell and Ward managed by Haymon? Do Haymon fighters ever fight each other?Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaAbsolutely. I expect him to as well, and I'll then very much look forward to a Ward-Bute fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
I'd like to see Ward fight Anthony and then Andre Dirrell while Bute fights Froch and Kessler, and then see Ward-Bute, assuming both win the previous fights.
If Andre Dirrell's on, he could give Ward a run for his money though. I think he's a better opponent than Froch or Kessler.
Rant, you're a big Bute fan. I've only seen a few of his fights, not enough to make a sound judgement on him. Can you direct me to any fights I should check out to learn a bit more about him? I'd like to see a bit more before I really comment on how I think he'd do against Froch/Kessler/Ward. Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Bute will probably beat him and then Froch will have to content himself with fucking his ridiculously fit bird for the rest of his days.
Cressa, no doubt, my man. I'd be more than happy to. I would direct you to the fights against his best opponents, which are Sakio Bika and Glencoffe Johnson. He didn't knock out either though so you only need a few rounds from each to see what kind of fighter he is and pick up his style. I've added part I from the Johnson fight and part II from the Bika fight. You can find the other parts from there. He's famous for his left uppercut to the body (he's a southpaw). One of the main reasons I like him is his body work. For a tall, rangy fighter, he goes to the body a lot. I added his left uppercut KO of Edison Miranda for a good example of his left upper cut. His KO uppercut to the liver of Anrade was also pretty special. And because I just couldn't help myself since you got me on a mission: I also added his most recent KO against Mendy. That KO was also mentioned on a lot of KO of 2011 lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121Rant, you're a big Bute fan. I've only seen a few of his fights, not enough to make a sound judgement on him. Can you direct me to any fights I should check out to learn a bit more about him? I'd like to see a bit more before I really comment on how I think he'd do against Froch/Kessler/Ward. Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7yGi...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYmz4r-pdgs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0hvYXg8Bw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWeu2aEev70&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9HDTsBa38Q&feature=related
Thanks for these.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratCressa, no doubt, my man. I'd be more than happy to. I would direct you to the fights against his best opponents, which are Sakio Bika and Glencoffe Johnson. He didn't knock out either though so you only need a few rounds from each to see what kind of fighter he is and pick up his style. I've added part I from the Johnson fight and part II from the Bika fight. You can find the other parts from there. He's famous for his left uppercut to the body (he's a southpaw). One of the main reasons I like him is his body work. For a tall, rangy fighter, he goes to the body a lot. I added his left uppercut KO of Edison Miranda for a good example of his left upper cut. His KO uppercut to the liver of Anrade was also pretty special. And because I just couldn't help myself since you got me on a mission: I also added his most recent KO against Mendy. That KO was also mentioned on a lot of KO of 2011 lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121Rant, you're a big Bute fan. I've only seen a few of his fights, not enough to make a sound judgement on him. Can you direct me to any fights I should check out to learn a bit more about him? I'd like to see a bit more before I really comment on how I think he'd do against Froch/Kessler/Ward. Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Looking at those videos it's clear he's got some serious power, is very slick and has good hand speed to boot. I remember watching the Magee fight and being impressed with his body shots, and again he works the body very well in some of these videos. That KO of Andrade is a beautiful shot.
I think the body shots would be a big factor in a fight with Froch. Froch said that Kessler's body shots were killing him, and Bute works the body very well. If he committed downstairs against Froch I could see him getting a stoppage that way. Couple that with the fact that Froch struggles with slick fighters and I can see Bute having a lot of success against Carl.
It all depends on how Bute makes the step up to fighting the elite fighters now. He doesn't seem to get out of 2nd gear in the Johnson fight which is encouraging given how comfortably he wins. It looks like he could easily take it up another notch or 2. I'd lean towards Bute to beat Froch right now. It should be a fun fight for sure.
I used to rate Froch a lot but for me he's well behind Ward and Bute now.
If they fought the question would be 'Can Bute do a better job on him than Ward did?'.
I favor Froch because of his intensity and Bute has a chance because of his power base but Bute has a good chance to win only because Froch just lost his last fight. I suggest a tune up and his hands held high otherwise he could be looking at the ceiling lights, iron chin or no iron chin. For Froch it depends on whether his head and ass are properly wired together after Ward.
Froch is impossible to hit to the body with uppercuts, only person to get his body was Kessler and Kessler got ruined by doing so, froch was wobbling Kessler with every shot nearly, what makes bute think he can get away with getting close to froch and no getting hit, even wards face will tell u that close up with froch is like walking through a mine field!!
No problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121Thanks for these.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratCressa, no doubt, my man. I'd be more than happy to. I would direct you to the fights against his best opponents, which are Sakio Bika and Glencoffe Johnson. He didn't knock out either though so you only need a few rounds from each to see what kind of fighter he is and pick up his style. I've added part I from the Johnson fight and part II from the Bika fight. You can find the other parts from there. He's famous for his left uppercut to the body (he's a southpaw). One of the main reasons I like him is his body work. For a tall, rangy fighter, he goes to the body a lot. I added his left uppercut KO of Edison Miranda for a good example of his left upper cut. His KO uppercut to the liver of Anrade was also pretty special. And because I just couldn't help myself since you got me on a mission: I also added his most recent KO against Mendy. That KO was also mentioned on a lot of KO of 2011 lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cressa121Rant, you're a big Bute fan. I've only seen a few of his fights, not enough to make a sound judgement on him. Can you direct me to any fights I should check out to learn a bit more about him? I'd like to see a bit more before I really comment on how I think he'd do against Froch/Kessler/Ward. Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Looking at those videos it's clear he's got some serious power, is very slick and has good hand speed to boot. I remember watching the Magee fight and being impressed with his body shots, and again he works the body very well in some of these videos. That KO of Andrade is a beautiful shot.
I think the body shots would be a big factor in a fight with Froch. Froch said that Kessler's body shots were killing him, and Bute works the body very well. If he committed downstairs against Froch I could see him getting a stoppage that way. Couple that with the fact that Froch struggles with slick fighters and I can see Bute having a lot of success against Carl.
It all depends on how Bute makes the step up to fighting the elite fighters now. He doesn't seem to get out of 2nd gear in the Johnson fight which is encouraging given how comfortably he wins. It looks like he could easily take it up another notch or 2. I'd lean towards Bute to beat Froch right now. It should be a fun fight for sure.
I'm a fan of both guys. I'm of the belief that one can never count Froch out. He's a tough hombre with a ton of self-belief and even if defeat I have not seen him question his ability. He walks away from his loss a proud man. Froch would be in this fight if he get to Bute early and make him wary of engaging. It's a fight that would really tell us where they are.
I agree with Bilbo that in a way the question will be can Bute do better than Ward against Froch. However, as I said above, I don't count Froch out. I can see Froch putting hands on Bute or catching with a flush shot that shakes Bute a bit.
Cressa - I realized in my hurry to show you his highlights what I forgot to mention are Bute's faults. For one, Bute has a somewhat questionable chin. I'm not referring to the Andrade I fight because I'm convinced that wasn't one or two punches that hurt Bute but fatigue from the whole fight. I'm referring to his amateur fight with Gennady Golovkin where Golovkin KO'd him. He had headgear on then so you have to be a little suspicious of his chin until he proves he has one. He's been in with punchers though in the professional ranks and won so it's a bit unclear now really.
His other fault is that his inside game is lacking. I haven't seen him effectively fight inside like say Ward or Hopkins can. It's the primary reason I see a Ward/Bute fight at 60-40 Ward because I have a feeling Ward would work his way inside and smother Bute. Bute is most effective at range so if you can take that away from him...
Just can't see bute stopping froch