If it happens who wins?

[Dropanuke]

I've been watching froch fights from his debut again and have noticed he or he seems faster before 30 years of age, watch him against Damon Hague and Henry porras in Hollywood and tell me whats different from then to now and give your pros and cons

[shza]

I've been watching froch fights from his debut again and have noticed he or he seems faster before 30 years of age, watch him against Damon Hague and Henry porras in Hollywood and tell me whats different from then to now and give your pros and cons

The difference is that he was in against crap competition then.

At the elite level, I've never though much of Froch. Big heart, great chin, but very slow and very poor fundamentals. So easy to hit.

It's hard to say anything with confidence about Bute, since he hasn't faced anyone better than a super-faded 45 year-old Glen Johnson, but I'd still pick him to beat Froch. The only attribute where Froch has the advantage is chin, but Bute's not an eggshell like Jermain Taylor so I don't think that's much of an issue anyway.

[Rantcatrat]

I've been watching froch fights from his debut again and have noticed he or he seems faster before 30 years of age, watch him against Damon Hague and Henry porras in Hollywood and tell me whats different from then to now and give your pros and cons

The difference is that he was in against crap competition then.

At the elite level, I've never though much of Froch. Big heart, great chin, but very slow and very poor fundamentals. So easy to hit.

It's hard to say anything with confidence about Bute, since he hasn't faced anyone better than a super-faded 45 year-old Glen Johnson, but I'd still pick him to beat Froch. The only attribute where Froch has the advantage is chin, but Bute's not an eggshell like Jermain Taylor so I don't think that's much of an issue anyway.

I think a little higher of Froch than Shza may because he has been able to earn wins against Glen Johnson, Andre Dirrell, and Jean Pascal. They're all quality combatants.

As to Bute, Glen Johnson and Sakio Bika are both legitimate opponents. Not elite opponents like Ward and Froch, but compotent opponents nonetheless and he performed as expected. Froch is the next step in his progression.

If you don't think much of Froch, does Ward still remain not proven in your eyes? I would argue Froch is Ward's best win. Other than Froch, it's Kessler, but I'm not sure how high I rate this version of Kessler. He seems to be injury-prone and on his last leg.

[shza]

I've been watching froch fights from his debut again and have noticed he or he seems faster before 30 years of age, watch him against Damon Hague and Henry porras in Hollywood and tell me whats different from then to now and give your pros and cons

The difference is that he was in against crap competition then.

At the elite level, I've never though much of Froch. Big heart, great chin, but very slow and very poor fundamentals. So easy to hit.

It's hard to say anything with confidence about Bute, since he hasn't faced anyone better than a super-faded 45 year-old Glen Johnson, but I'd still pick him to beat Froch. The only attribute where Froch has the advantage is chin, but Bute's not an eggshell like Jermain Taylor so I don't think that's much of an issue anyway.

I think a little higher of Froch than Shza may because he has been able to earn wins against Glen Johnson, Andre Dirrell, and Jean Pascal. They're all quality combatants.

As to Bute, Glen Johnson and Sakio Bika are both legitimate opponents. Not elite opponents like Ward and Froch, but compotent opponents nonetheless and he performed as expected. Froch is the next step in his progression.

If you don't think much of Froch, does Ward still remain not proven in your eyes? I would argue Froch is Ward's best win. Other than Froch, it's Kessler, but I'm not sure how high I rate this version of Kessler. He seems to be injury-prone and on his last leg.

I said before the Froch fight that it would be a wide and easy fight for Ward, and it was exactly that.

But so is Ward "proven"? He's certainly not "all time great" proven but he's about as proven as he could be, given the competition. I consider the Klitchkos proven too. Like them, it's notable and important that he's dropped very few rounds against the other guys at the top of the division, B+ fighters though they may be (the Klitchkos' competition has been basically C-level fighters, though no fault of theirs).

I do think Kessler is a better win than Froch though, yes. "This version of Kessler" was still good enough to beat Froch, anyway (though it was, as I've said previously, the sloppiest and most amatueurish looking fight I've ever seen between two supposedly elite fighters).

I also thought Froch lost to Dirrell, though I can understand how judges who value aggression over defense and skill could score it the other way. But I would definitely pick Dirrell in a rematch.

I would like to see Ward against Dirrell and Bute and then ultimately against Chad Dawson. That one would be a true test.

[Rantcatrat]

I've been watching froch fights from his debut again and have noticed he or he seems faster before 30 years of age, watch him against Damon Hague and Henry porras in Hollywood and tell me whats different from then to now and give your pros and cons

The difference is that he was in against crap competition then.

At the elite level, I've never though much of Froch. Big heart, great chin, but very slow and very poor fundamentals. So easy to hit.

It's hard to say anything with confidence about Bute, since he hasn't faced anyone better than a super-faded 45 year-old Glen Johnson, but I'd still pick him to beat Froch. The only attribute where Froch has the advantage is chin, but Bute's not an eggshell like Jermain Taylor so I don't think that's much of an issue anyway.

I think a little higher of Froch than Shza may because he has been able to earn wins against Glen Johnson, Andre Dirrell, and Jean Pascal. They're all quality combatants.

As to Bute, Glen Johnson and Sakio Bika are both legitimate opponents. Not elite opponents like Ward and Froch, but compotent opponents nonetheless and he performed as expected. Froch is the next step in his progression.

If you don't think much of Froch, does Ward still remain not proven in your eyes? I would argue Froch is Ward's best win. Other than Froch, it's Kessler, but I'm not sure how high I rate this version of Kessler. He seems to be injury-prone and on his last leg.

But so is Ward "proven"? He's certainly not "all time great" proven but he's about as proven as he could be, given the competition. I consider the Klitchkos proven too. Like them, it's notable and important that he's dropped very few rounds against the other guys at the top of the division, B+ fighters though they may be (the Klitchkos' competition has been basically C-level fighters, though no fault of theirs).

So, then I'm assuming just for the sake of discussion that if Bute beats Froch and/or Kessler he's as proven as Ward is. I'm not saying he'll do either of those for sure, but I expect him to.

[shza]

So, then I'm assuming just for the sake of discussion that if Bute beats Froch and/or Kessler he's as proven as Ward is. I'm not saying he'll do either of those for sure, but I expect him to.

Absolutely. I expect him to as well, and I'll then very much look forward to a Ward-Bute fight.

I'd like to see Ward fight Anthony and then Andre Dirrell while Bute fights Froch and Kessler, and then see Ward-Bute, assuming both win the previous fights.

If Andre Dirrell's on, he could give Ward a run for his money though. I think he's a better opponent than Froch or Kessler.

[Rantcatrat]

So, then I'm assuming just for the sake of discussion that if Bute beats Froch and/or Kessler he's as proven as Ward is. I'm not saying he'll do either of those for sure, but I expect him to.

Absolutely. I expect him to as well, and I'll then very much look forward to a Ward-Bute fight.

I'd like to see Ward fight Anthony and then Andre Dirrell while Bute fights Froch and Kessler, and then see Ward-Bute, assuming both win the previous fights.

If Andre Dirrell's on, he could give Ward a run for his money though. I think he's a better opponent than Froch or Kessler.

Yes, last Saturday's fight wasn't indicative of very much in my opinion. Aren't Dirrell and Ward managed by Haymon? Do Haymon fighters ever fight each other?

[Cressa121]

So, then I'm assuming just for the sake of discussion that if Bute beats Froch and/or Kessler he's as proven as Ward is. I'm not saying he'll do either of those for sure, but I expect him to.

Rant, you're a big Bute fan. I've only seen a few of his fights, not enough to make a sound judgement on him. Can you direct me to any fights I should check out to learn a bit more about him? I'd like to see a bit more before I really comment on how I think he'd do against Froch/Kessler/Ward. Cheers.

[Rantcatrat]

So, then I'm assuming just for the sake of discussion that if Bute beats Froch and/or Kessler he's as proven as Ward is. I'm not saying he'll do either of those for sure, but I expect him to.

Rant, you're a big Bute fan. I've only seen a few of his fights, not enough to make a sound judgement on him. Can you direct me to any fights I should check out to learn a bit more about him? I'd like to see a bit more before I really comment on how I think he'd do against Froch/Kessler/Ward. Cheers.

Cressa, no doubt, my man. I'd be more than happy to. I would direct you to the fights against his best opponents, which are Sakio Bika and Glencoffe Johnson. He didn't knock out either though so you only need a few rounds from each to see what kind of fighter he is and pick up his style. I've added part I from the Johnson fight and part II from the Bika fight. You can find the other parts from there. He's famous for his left uppercut to the body (he's a southpaw). One of the main reasons I like him is his body work. For a tall, rangy fighter, he goes to the body a lot. I added his left uppercut KO of Edison Miranda for a good example of his left upper cut. His KO uppercut to the liver of Anrade was also pretty special. And because I just couldn't help myself since you got me on a mission: I also added his most recent KO against Mendy. That KO was also mentioned on a lot of KO of 2011 lists.

[Dropanuke]

In all honesty froch is old now. The froch from 2005 used to run around the ring and have prince Naseem reflexes but now seems hittable but then again he has had numerous leg and knee operations, hence why he kicks his leg backwards during most fights

[Dropanuke]

Froch is impossible to hit to the body with uppercuts, only person to get his body was Kessler and Kessler got ruined by doing so, froch was wobbling Kessler with every shot nearly, what makes bute think he can get away with getting close to froch and no getting hit, even wards face will tell u that close up with froch is like walking through a mine field!!

[Dropanuke]

Just can't see bute stopping froch

[ono]

Bute will probably beat him and then Froch will have to content himself with fucking his ridiculously fit bird for the rest of his days.