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Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
It might be because everyone slept through it just like Ruben Garcia.
IMO Donaire seriously failed to impress, wouldn't mind seeing Arce get his shot against Nonito now actuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Manos de PiedraQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
It might be because everyone slept through it just like Ruben Garcia.
It might have been due to his hand, which did look quite bust up after the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesIMO Donaire seriously failed to impress, wouldn't mind seeing Arce get his shot against Nonito now actuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Manos de PiedraQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
It might be because everyone slept through it just like Ruben Garcia.
his hands were fine last time out and he looked equally flatQuote:
Originally Posted by Manos de PiedraIt might have been due to his hand, which did look quite bust up after the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesIMO Donaire seriously failed to impress, wouldn't mind seeing Arce get his shot against Nonito now actuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Manos de PiedraQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
It might be because everyone slept through it just like Ruben Garcia.
Nonito in his last two bouts have been fighting like a guy who's buying into his own hype. He needs to start boxing more, patiently, to set up his punches.. He was rushing it last night..
Vazquez is growing into a real boxer and i was impressed by him. Every fighter must have a respectable jab Vazquez' jabs are starting to look top notch.
He's still a great fighter,mind you not bad with a bust hand at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
Donaire fought well. Altough he would be a monster at 115. There just aren't any good fights for him at that weight. At 118 he could face, and beat Mares and Moreno . But I see his ambitions and at 122 I see him winning against Rigondeux and Nishioka. Donaire's up there with Martinez ,Pac, PBF, and JMM in the top 5
The problem is that the jab was Vasquez's only punch. He fought a pretty defensive fight and ought to take his share of the blame for the fight being less than super-exciting.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
2nd fight in a row where he looked ordinary, last time out he blamed Narvaez for running away, what a load of crap. He was there, he was in the ring, Donaire was frustrated and lacked any plan B against a fighter with an unusual style. Donaire is not the same fighter that KO'd Vic a few years back or Montiel just 12 months ago. This time around he was flat, almost disinterested. Maybe Arce has a better chance than a lot of people think? He wants to stay well clear of Mares too if he wishes to sleep walk through his fights. Donaire is on the way down! He will lose his next fight!
I think Moreno would have his number if they fought...Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
I still feel Donaire should have stayed at 118 for fights with Mares & Moreno, he would have gained a hell of a lot more respect for fighting either one of those guys than both his fights with Narvaez & Vasquez put together
Get him a fighter who constantly let go of his right hand, and we'll see what happens.
Hmm... lt's seems his last two opponents were right hand shy.
He doesn't like the prospect of Mares at all, not sure where he is going with his career. His ego appears to be out of control, i doubt he even beats Vic again? Donaire is in trouble. He ain't Manny Pacquaio.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyI think Moreno would have his number if they fought...Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
I still feel Donaire should have stayed at 118 for fights with Mares & Moreno, he would have gained a hell of a lot more respect for fighting either one of those guys than both his fights with Narvaez & Vasquez put together
Nah, Vic is totally shot a this point. I think Donaire destroys Mares, whom I find totally unimpressive. Moreno would have been a competitive fight though. I do agree that Donaire needs to get his ego in check. It sounded like it was getting there after the fight though, at least, acknowledging that it would be much harder to take guys out at 122 than it had been at 115 and (to a lesser extent) 118.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANHe doesn't like the prospect of Mares at all, not sure where he is going with his career. His ego appears to be out of control, i doubt he even beats Vic again? Donaire is in trouble. He ain't Manny Pacquaio.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyI think Moreno would have his number if they fought...Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
I still feel Donaire should have stayed at 118 for fights with Mares & Moreno, he would have gained a hell of a lot more respect for fighting either one of those guys than both his fights with Narvaez & Vasquez put together
Yes, Vic is shot, but the way Donaire is fighting he is going to lose to one of these lesser known fighters sooner rather than later. Donaire is not destroying anyone at 122lb.Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaNah, Vic is totally shot a this point. I think Donaire destroys Mares, whom I find totally unimpressive. Moreno would have been a competitive fight though. I do agree that Donaire needs to get his ego in check. It sounded like it was getting there after the fight though, at least, acknowledging that it would be much harder to take guys out at 122 than it had been at 115 and (to a lesser extent) 118.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANHe doesn't like the prospect of Mares at all, not sure where he is going with his career. His ego appears to be out of control, i doubt he even beats Vic again? Donaire is in trouble. He ain't Manny Pacquaio.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyI think Moreno would have his number if they fought...Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
I still feel Donaire should have stayed at 118 for fights with Mares & Moreno, he would have gained a hell of a lot more respect for fighting either one of those guys than both his fights with Narvaez & Vasquez put together
He'll destroy Arce. You mark my word. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANYes, Vic is shot, but the way Donaire is fighting he is going to lose to one of these lesser known fighters sooner rather than later. Donaire is not destroying anyone at 122lb.Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaNah, Vic is totally shot a this point. I think Donaire destroys Mares, whom I find totally unimpressive. Moreno would have been a competitive fight though. I do agree that Donaire needs to get his ego in check. It sounded like it was getting there after the fight though, at least, acknowledging that it would be much harder to take guys out at 122 than it had been at 115 and (to a lesser extent) 118.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANHe doesn't like the prospect of Mares at all, not sure where he is going with his career. His ego appears to be out of control, i doubt he even beats Vic again? Donaire is in trouble. He ain't Manny Pacquaio.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyI think Moreno would have his number if they fought...Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
I still feel Donaire should have stayed at 118 for fights with Mares & Moreno, he would have gained a hell of a lot more respect for fighting either one of those guys than both his fights with Narvaez & Vasquez put together
[QUOTE=:::PSL:::;1050431]Maybe so, but prior to this fight, I didn't think it was worth Donaire's time to face Arce. Because of two relatively lackluster fights in a row, it's now not a horrible idea for Donaire. For his popularity sake, he may need an explosive KO win.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Let's not get too down on Donaire. He did get the W, just not explosively.
All talk of him going up to 126 to face Gamboa should stop because his power hasn't translated at 122 at least so far. He may need time to grow into 122. Nishioka is the fight for Donaire.
Does anyone now think Rigondeaux may beat him if they fight?
l'd say bring all the 122 top dogs one by one against him first, then decide if he's worthy at 126. He obviously still have chin and power at 122. Him and Garcia needs to work on his right hand though cuz the left hand kept getting banged up.
Both Nishioka and Rigondeaux are southpaw. They're tailor made for Nonito. l think that's the main reason he moved up to 122.
...oh yeah. He want's Arce too.
Just because Nonito KOed Vic doesn't mean he has every southpaw's number. I agree with Gest in that these fighters are not giving him an arsenal of punches. Most are trying to outbox him and catch him when he's open. Navarez was looking to drag him into later rounds and see if he was weight drained. He worked the body and stood in there very well. He was not at risk of losing his titles, and for him it was a BIG payday.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Nonito is not the Fire and brimstone he would like to be, but with his speed and timing he can really make a mark. Against definitively minded fighters he is always going to struggle. He is gaining a lot of experience, and as long as he doesn't get busted up in these fights, doesn't drain himself to make weight, we will see the best of him to come.
Even at 122 pounds, Donaire is a giant in the ring with dwarfs.
imho: Rigo will give Donaire fits with his tight defense, and hard punches from medium range. I think Rigo will have to work for this win because Nonito will be eating too many shots trying to walk him down.
I am a big fan of Rigo's style though, so I may be a little bias
Donaire is a quality fighter with great speed and punch power. He was super confident and reminded me of Roy Jones with some of the punches he was throwing. Vasquez fought scared and was trying to survive in there. Donaire should have used his jab far more, he was loading up too much, which nearly worked for him. Donaire would destroy Arce, I do not want to see Arce hurt.
sorry buddy but after two weak showing IMO Nishioka and Rigondeaux should both be the favorites heading into a bout against Donaire, and Vazquez threw the right hand plenty, it's the hand that would stop Donaire from coming forward and the same shot that buckled Donaire when Vazquez was in the corner, Nonito has a good left hook but he's far from being Frazier to think that he's gonna KO somebody every time they let the right hand go, anywho he shouldn't even be looking at 126, seeing how IMO Mares, Agbeko, Moreno, Arce, Nishioka, Rigondeaux, and even Vazquez in a rematch give Nonito all he can handle, he didn't have any crazy power on Saturday in fact Arce did more damage to Vazquez so lets see how he continues now that his main asset (his size) is goneQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Dude, he won the fight 9 rounds to 3 at worst, with a broken hand. What in the world makes you think Vasquez in a rematch "gives him all he can handle"? I agree that Nishioka, Rigondeaux and Moreno are good, competitive fights, because those guys are all very good -- and defensively-minded -- technical boxers. But none of those guys have KO power and I don't think any of them really throws enough to win. I think the result of each of those fights is another Donaire points victory where people are upset because he didn't look spectacular against a defensive fighter; Rigondeaux is the one guy who's tricky enough that it's fairly even (but I note that he has looked more boring than spectacular in his recent fights -- exactly what you're down-ranking Donaire for).Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry buddy but after two weak showing IMO Nishioka and Rigondeaux should both be the favorites heading into a bout against Donaire, and Vazquez threw the right hand plenty, it's the hand that would stop Donaire from coming forward and the same shot that buckled Donaire when Vazquez was in the corner, Nonito has a good left hook but he's far from being Frazier to think that he's gonna KO somebody every time they let the right hand go, anywho he shouldn't even be looking at 126, seeing how IMO Mares, Agbeko, Moreno, Arce, Nishioka, Rigondeaux, and even Vazquez in a rematch give Nonito all he can handle, he didn't have any crazy power on Saturday in fact Arce did more damage to Vazquez so lets see how he continues now that his main asset (his size) is goneQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Someone who's open like Arce (or Mares) is going to get KO'd. Which is why we'll see Arce next.
I see a guy who is a mesh of over confident, over fed and a bit bored. He's inconsitent and was fighting in spurts rather then putting all of his obvious attributes together. It's always easy to be a arm chair quarterback but honestly, I think Vasquez was there for the taking midway through. Donaire was getting hit with punches thrown from the backseat and his focus looked scattered. He needs to get his head out of the clouds and stop reading his own headlines before he gets caught sleeping.
I as others did had Vazquez taking rounds 5, 6, 7, and maybe even 8, and that was a guy who's not known for being all that technical and who didn't throw much, look at Donaire's face after the fight, he's never had stellar defense and guys like Tyson Marquez have landed plenty on Nonito they just just didn't have the size to be able to do any real damage, Nonito is finally in the ring with guys his own size and it showed Saturday, he didn't bully his opponent and when hit back he felt the punches causing him to back up, he clocked Vazquez with everything but the kitchen sink and didn't really faze him, IMO the KD was more a balance issue more than Vazquez even being really hurtQuote:
Originally Posted by shzaDude, he won the fight 9 rounds to 3 at worst, with a broken hand. What in the world makes you think Vasquez in a rematch "gives him all he can handle"? I agree that Nishioka, Rigondeaux and Moreno are good, competitive fights, because those guys are all very good -- and defensively-minded -- technical boxers. But none of those guys have KO power and I don't think any of them really throws enough to win. I think the result of each of those fights is another Donaire points victory where people are upset because he didn't look spectacular against a defensive fighter; Rigondeaux is the one guy who's tricky enough that it's fairly even (but I note that he has looked more boring than spectacular in his recent fights -- exactly what you're down-ranking Donaire for).Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry buddy but after two weak showing IMO Nishioka and Rigondeaux should both be the favorites heading into a bout against Donaire, and Vazquez threw the right hand plenty, it's the hand that would stop Donaire from coming forward and the same shot that buckled Donaire when Vazquez was in the corner, Nonito has a good left hook but he's far from being Frazier to think that he's gonna KO somebody every time they let the right hand go, anywho he shouldn't even be looking at 126, seeing how IMO Mares, Agbeko, Moreno, Arce, Nishioka, Rigondeaux, and even Vazquez in a rematch give Nonito all he can handle, he didn't have any crazy power on Saturday in fact Arce did more damage to Vazquez so lets see how he continues now that his main asset (his size) is goneQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Someone who's open like Arce (or Mares) is going to get KO'd. Which is why we'll see Arce next.
Not sure how any of that translates into Vasquez suddenly giving him "all he can handle" in an unnecessary rematch. You yourself scored it 9-3 and that's with Donaire breaking his hand right before the rounds you gave Vasquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesI as others did had Vazquez taking rounds 5, 6, 7, and maybe even 8, and that was a guy who's not known for being all that technical and who didn't throw much, look at Donaire's face after the fight, he's never had stellar defense and guys like Tyson Marquez have landed plenty on Nonito they just just didn't have the size to be able to do any real damage, Nonito is finally in the ring with guys his own size and it showed Saturday, he didn't bully his opponent and when hit back he felt the punches causing him to back up, he clocked Vazquez with everything but the kitchen sink and didn't really faze him, IMO the KD was more a balance issue more than Vazquez even being really hurtQuote:
Originally Posted by shzaDude, he won the fight 9 rounds to 3 at worst, with a broken hand. What in the world makes you think Vasquez in a rematch "gives him all he can handle"? I agree that Nishioka, Rigondeaux and Moreno are good, competitive fights, because those guys are all very good -- and defensively-minded -- technical boxers. But none of those guys have KO power and I don't think any of them really throws enough to win. I think the result of each of those fights is another Donaire points victory where people are upset because he didn't look spectacular against a defensive fighter; Rigondeaux is the one guy who's tricky enough that it's fairly even (but I note that he has looked more boring than spectacular in his recent fights -- exactly what you're down-ranking Donaire for).Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry buddy but after two weak showing IMO Nishioka and Rigondeaux should both be the favorites heading into a bout against Donaire, and Vazquez threw the right hand plenty, it's the hand that would stop Donaire from coming forward and the same shot that buckled Donaire when Vazquez was in the corner, Nonito has a good left hook but he's far from being Frazier to think that he's gonna KO somebody every time they let the right hand go, anywho he shouldn't even be looking at 126, seeing how IMO Mares, Agbeko, Moreno, Arce, Nishioka, Rigondeaux, and even Vazquez in a rematch give Nonito all he can handle, he didn't have any crazy power on Saturday in fact Arce did more damage to Vazquez so lets see how he continues now that his main asset (his size) is goneQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Someone who's open like Arce (or Mares) is going to get KO'd. Which is why we'll see Arce next.
Did he meet top 5 p4p expectations of winning by spectacular knockout and never getting hit? No. Did he confirm that he's at least a class above Vasquez? Absolutely.
People are panning this performance because the expectations are ridiculously high for Donaire. That's fair but I think people are losing perspective. It was not a close fight and he was never in danger of losing it. And I still pick him over Nishioka and Rigondeax.
the fight wasn't as close due to Vazquez' lack of activity rather than Donaire controlling the tempo or negating Jr's attack, hell even in the rbr on here people were saying if Vazquez would throw more he could change it, you have no idea what round Donaire hurt his hand, just cause he said that it happened around the 4th doesn't mean that's actually when he hurt it, Malignaggi had similar bleeding of the knuckles and people just shrugged it off, Ward claimed to have hurt his hand against Froch and the same happened, it's not different for DonaireQuote:
Originally Posted by shzaNot sure how any of that translates into Vasquez suddenly giving him "all he can handle" in an unnecessary rematch. You yourself scored it 9-3 and that's with Donaire breaking his hand right before the rounds you gave Vasquez.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesI as others did had Vazquez taking rounds 5, 6, 7, and maybe even 8, and that was a guy who's not known for being all that technical and who didn't throw much, look at Donaire's face after the fight, he's never had stellar defense and guys like Tyson Marquez have landed plenty on Nonito they just just didn't have the size to be able to do any real damage, Nonito is finally in the ring with guys his own size and it showed Saturday, he didn't bully his opponent and when hit back he felt the punches causing him to back up, he clocked Vazquez with everything but the kitchen sink and didn't really faze him, IMO the KD was more a balance issue more than Vazquez even being really hurtQuote:
Originally Posted by shzaDude, he won the fight 9 rounds to 3 at worst, with a broken hand. What in the world makes you think Vasquez in a rematch "gives him all he can handle"? I agree that Nishioka, Rigondeaux and Moreno are good, competitive fights, because those guys are all very good -- and defensively-minded -- technical boxers. But none of those guys have KO power and I don't think any of them really throws enough to win. I think the result of each of those fights is another Donaire points victory where people are upset because he didn't look spectacular against a defensive fighter; Rigondeaux is the one guy who's tricky enough that it's fairly even (but I note that he has looked more boring than spectacular in his recent fights -- exactly what you're down-ranking Donaire for).Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralessorry buddy but after two weak showing IMO Nishioka and Rigondeaux should both be the favorites heading into a bout against Donaire, and Vazquez threw the right hand plenty, it's the hand that would stop Donaire from coming forward and the same shot that buckled Donaire when Vazquez was in the corner, Nonito has a good left hook but he's far from being Frazier to think that he's gonna KO somebody every time they let the right hand go, anywho he shouldn't even be looking at 126, seeing how IMO Mares, Agbeko, Moreno, Arce, Nishioka, Rigondeaux, and even Vazquez in a rematch give Nonito all he can handle, he didn't have any crazy power on Saturday in fact Arce did more damage to Vazquez so lets see how he continues now that his main asset (his size) is goneQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Someone who's open like Arce (or Mares) is going to get KO'd. Which is why we'll see Arce next.
Did he meet top 5 p4p expectations of winning by spectacular knockout and never getting hit? No. Did he confirm that he's at least a class above Vasquez? Absolutely.
People are panning this performance because the expectations are ridiculously high for Donaire. That's fair but I think people are losing perspective. It was not a close fight and he was never in danger of losing it. And I still pick him over Nishioka and Rigondeax.
IMO Donaire is starting to plateau but only time will tell
I can't believe you're doubling down on this. You think Vazquez's lack of activity was just random? If he opens up more, he gets hit cleanly more. He knows that. He's also just that kind of cautious fighter by nature; he wouldn't suddenly become a totally different guy if they fought again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Did the Pacquiao/Clottey fight prove that Manny would have had his hands full in a rematch too? The fight wasn't close due to Clottey's lack of activity, after all.
I agreed with you that Rigondeaux, Nishioka and Moreno would be competitive fights. It's bizarre that you're defending the idea that a rematch of this one-sided fight would also be a toss-up.
I never said a Vazquez rematch would be a toss-up, I said that Jr would give Nonito all he could handle, hell Donaire didn't have a walk in the park this time around, and Vazquez isn't an overly cautious fighter by nature, how many fights of his have you seen? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaI can't believe you're doubling down on this. You think Vazquez's lack of activity was just random? If he opens up more, he gets hit cleanly more. He knows that. He's also just that kind of cautious fighter by nature; he wouldn't suddenly become a totally different guy if they fought again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Did the Pacquiao/Clottey fight prove that Manny would have had his hands full in a rematch too? The fight wasn't close due to Clottey's lack of activity, after all.
I agreed with you that Rigondeaux, Nishioka and Moreno would be competitive fights. It's bizarre that you're defending the idea that a rematch of this one-sided fight would also be a toss-up.
I guess you were using "give him all he could handle" in a different way than everyone else uses it then. Personally, I don't see the daylight between that and "it's a pick'em."Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesI never said a Vazquez rematch would be a toss-up, I said that Jr would give Nonito all he could handle, hell Donaire didn't have a walk in the park this time around, and Vazquez isn't an overly cautious fighter by nature, how many fights of his have you seen? :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by shzaI can't believe you're doubling down on this. You think Vazquez's lack of activity was just random? If he opens up more, he gets hit cleanly more. He knows that. He's also just that kind of cautious fighter by nature; he wouldn't suddenly become a totally different guy if they fought again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Did the Pacquiao/Clottey fight prove that Manny would have had his hands full in a rematch too? The fight wasn't close due to Clottey's lack of activity, after all.
I agreed with you that Rigondeaux, Nishioka and Moreno would be competitive fights. It's bizarre that you're defending the idea that a rematch of this one-sided fight would also be a toss-up.
Donaire KO's Arce!
Agreed. Arce would play right into his hands. Vasquez was very cautious and Navarez moreso but Arce would come forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
I do think that Nonito should fill out at 122 first before jumping in weight again. His body didnt look toned and I think his power doesnt have the same affect so he should wait until he has filled out and needs to move up before he tales on the big guys. Problem is people know he bangs now so he has the same probem as Pac in that people just want to survive. Clottey and Mosley covered up and if bigger guys shut up shop its harder for the smaller quicker man to land his power shots. Nonitos a top p4p fighter IMO but has to take his time before gunning for Gamboa.