I'm from TEXAS and I don't understand why fighters come over here. Bullshit. I understand the rules and what not but come on the guy was not hurt, he was dominating and the round was damn near over.
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I'm from TEXAS and I don't understand why fighters come over here. Bullshit. I understand the rules and what not but come on the guy was not hurt, he was dominating and the round was damn near over.
It was bullshit. Kirkland didn't win that. It should be a NC.
Who was the ref?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Some tubby guy who refused to be interviewed after.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongWho was the ref?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
So you can hug grab headbutt on purpose all fight but in confusion step in the ring and get dq'd . Before I bitch too much I guess I better remember this is also the same sport that gave margacheto a title shot , uses catchweights like a whole separate weight class , and cuts off arreolla for calling a snake a snake yet let's mike Tyson threaten to eat others offspring. People cried when khan got checked for breaking the rules so maybe this fight is what we deserve I dunno . Either way having fights in Texas is just retarded
The ref seemed to let his emotions get the best of him as he was really pissed that old Mr. Magoo cornerman got in the ring during the count, the ref even said "Are you fucking kidding me !?" then DQ'd Molina out of rage.
Uncalled for. That said, I thought Kirkland was most likely going to get the stoppage in the next 2 rounds, but Molina was winning the fight, albeit by dreadful terrible John Ruiz tactics :-X
Kirkland is on borrowed time against World class opposition, his weakness no chin he may have a punchQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
but very little else.Wide open to a straight right hand this punch has put him down 6 times, for me to no about , a true Champion will have all the tools and a very good chin.
Kirkland is entertaining but you need more than that to be a World Champion.
Kirkland looked once again flat last night, I had him winning at most 2 rounds, and a bullshit DQ, IMO Cotto/Molina would be a hell of a fight
The ref was terrible and that decision was real bad judgement, that shouldn't have been a DQ.
It'd be terribly boring and an eyesore unless Cotto knocked him out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Molina is effective, but I'm cool with never watching him fight again. I didn't remember him being such a clincher and spoiler against Cintron.
Molina blatantly leads with his head.... and he CLEARLY tried to tackle Kirkland several times last night. Until the referee's get some balls and start enforcing the rules of boxing, we're doomed to watch these types of shitty fights. F*ck Molina and his tactics.
I think we're both Kirkland fans so we def didn't like seeing that crap ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Seriously though the guy was ahead by a couple points, but there were rounds were all he did was grab and then try to throw a bunch of shots at the 10 second mark or 30 second mark.
In the last round he tackled Kirkland to avoid being knocked down at least once.
Molina owned Kirkland!
It will be reversed to a NC!
Anyone know if kirkland ever ended up submiting a urine sample?
Very good question...TO THE ARCHIVES !Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
it was a good stoppage, the guy should have been disqualified rounds ago
Watch the result be changed to a NC!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Kirkland will run from a rematch, he knows he got lucky!!!
I don't see how it could be changed. On what grounds? It wasn't the popular call but it was the right one. Rules are rules. Corner enters the ring. Fighter get DQ'ed. It's pretty clear. Molina clearly got hit and went down before the bell. Which means the round continues until he takes his mandatory 8. When his corner came in, I knew he had cost him the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyWatch the result be changed to a NC!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Kirkland will run from a rematch, he knows he got lucky!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI don't see how it could be changed. On what grounds? It wasn't the popular call but it was the right one. Rules are rules. Corner enters the ring. Fighter get DQ'ed. It's pretty clear. Molina clearly got hit and went down before the bell. Which means the round continues until he takes his mandatory 8. When his corner came in, I knew he had cost him the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyWatch the result be changed to a NC!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Kirkland will run from a rematch, he knows he got lucky!!!
It was unclear.Source: Saturday Night Boxing
- The time-keeper should not have rung the bell until the count had been completed. A round isn't finished until that point. The bell usually is the signal that the corner can enter the ring.
- The ref didn't put them in neutral corners after the knock down. They went back to their own corners. Was the round done? This added to the confusion.
- Representatives from the Texas Boxing Commission should have attempted to prevent Molina's team from entering the ring.
- Molina wasn't dq'd immediately. The ref hesitated. He ordered Molina's team out of the ring at count 4, and then continued the count. It appeared Eric Gomez from Golden Boy was the first to mention that Molina should be dq'd for the infraction.
Why hasn't Gale Van Hoy retired? He needs to retire NOW. Certainly, the clinching was excessive, but the fact is teh ref didn't deduct a point. Therefore, there is no way in hell, Molina didn't win almost every single round. I had him winning 8 of 10, I think. Gale Van Hoy had Kirkland up. It's laughable in all honesty. This is the same ref who had Paulie Malignaggi losing to Juan Diaz in their first fight.
How bad is the Texas Commission? In a span of three months, they have (1) "forgot" to administer drug tests to Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. and Marcos Antonio Rubio, (2) ruled the Cloud versus Campillo fight for Cloud, and (3) now this disqualification. This is more than bad luck; this is ineptitude, or frankly, worse.
1, The bell sounded as Molina was going down. Can't blame the time keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI don't see how it could be changed. On what grounds? It wasn't the popular call but it was the right one. Rules are rules. Corner enters the ring. Fighter get DQ'ed. It's pretty clear. Molina clearly got hit and went down before the bell. Which means the round continues until he takes his mandatory 8. When his corner came in, I knew he had cost him the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyWatch the result be changed to a NC!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Kirkland will run from a rematch, he knows he got lucky!!!
It was unclear.Source: Saturday Night Boxing
- The time-keeper should not have rung the bell until the count had been completed. A round isn't finished until that point. The bell usually is the signal that the corner can enter the ring.
- The ref didn't put them in neutral corners after the knock down. They went back to their own corners. Was the round done? This added to the confusion.
- Representatives from the Texas Boxing Commission should have attempted to prevent Molina's team from entering the ring.
- Molina wasn't dq'd immediately. The ref hesitated. He ordered Molina's team out of the ring at count 4, and then continued the count. It appeared Eric Gomez from Golden Boy was the first to mention that Molina should be dq'd for the infraction.
2, The ref was trying to put them put in a nuetral corner. He clearly directed Kirkland away from his corner and into a neutral corner.
3, Kind of hard to keep 4 guys from jumping into the ring
4, Im sure it was Gomez who pointed it out. The corner man clearly entered the ring
As your post makes clear, it was a confusing scenario. The time-keeper may have been too quick to ring the bell, but it was a close call. Hearing the bell ring, signalled to the cornermen that they could move into the ring. The referee tried, but failed ultimately, to put them in neutral corner because Molina wasn't in one. Even more the reason, why the cornermen would think they could come in. All parties seem to at least partly to blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise1, The bell sounded as Molina was going down. Can't blame the time keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI don't see how it could be changed. On what grounds? It wasn't the popular call but it was the right one. Rules are rules. Corner enters the ring. Fighter get DQ'ed. It's pretty clear. Molina clearly got hit and went down before the bell. Which means the round continues until he takes his mandatory 8. When his corner came in, I knew he had cost him the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyWatch the result be changed to a NC!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Kirkland will run from a rematch, he knows he got lucky!!!
It was unclear.Source: Saturday Night Boxing
- The time-keeper should not have rung the bell until the count had been completed. A round isn't finished until that point. The bell usually is the signal that the corner can enter the ring.
- The ref didn't put them in neutral corners after the knock down. They went back to their own corners. Was the round done? This added to the confusion.
- Representatives from the Texas Boxing Commission should have attempted to prevent Molina's team from entering the ring.
- Molina wasn't dq'd immediately. The ref hesitated. He ordered Molina's team out of the ring at count 4, and then continued the count. It appeared Eric Gomez from Golden Boy was the first to mention that Molina should be dq'd for the infraction.
2, The ref was trying to put them put in a nuetral corner. He clearly directed Kirkland away from his corner and into a neutral corner.
3, Kind of hard to keep 4 guys from jumping into the ring
4, Im sure it was Gomez who pointed it out. The corner man clearly entered the ring
The rule, 61.41(K)(6), in Texas is: "When a round ends before a contestant who was knocked down rises, the bell shall not ring, and the count shall continue. If the bell rises before the count of ten, the bell shall ring ending the round."
Source: Team Molina: Ref Violated Texas Rules in Kirkland Fight - Boxing News
The other question is whether there is even standing eight count if the knockdown happens at the very end of the round or as long as the contestant gets up, the round is over?
Bottom line: the referee should have used his discretion to allow the fight to continue, akin to when the PBF/Judah fight was permitted to continue after PBF's people stormed the ring. The facts here were even more compelling.
Molina wasn't in a neutral corner cuz he didn't need to be in one. He was the one who got dropped. He needs to get up. Kirkland was the only one who needed to be in one. And he was directed to oneQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratAs your post makes clear, it was a confusing scenario. The time-keeper may have been too quick to ring the bell, but it was a close call. Hearing the bell ring, signalled to the cornermen that they could move into the ring. The referee tried, but failed ultimately, to put them in neutral corner because Molina wasn't in one. Even more the reason, why the cornermen would think they could come in. All parties seem to at least partly to blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise1, The bell sounded as Molina was going down. Can't blame the time keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratQuote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI don't see how it could be changed. On what grounds? It wasn't the popular call but it was the right one. Rules are rules. Corner enters the ring. Fighter get DQ'ed. It's pretty clear. Molina clearly got hit and went down before the bell. Which means the round continues until he takes his mandatory 8. When his corner came in, I knew he had cost him the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyWatch the result be changed to a NC!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Kirkland will run from a rematch, he knows he got lucky!!!
It was unclear.Source: Saturday Night Boxing
- The time-keeper should not have rung the bell until the count had been completed. A round isn't finished until that point. The bell usually is the signal that the corner can enter the ring.
- The ref didn't put them in neutral corners after the knock down. They went back to their own corners. Was the round done? This added to the confusion.
- Representatives from the Texas Boxing Commission should have attempted to prevent Molina's team from entering the ring.
- Molina wasn't dq'd immediately. The ref hesitated. He ordered Molina's team out of the ring at count 4, and then continued the count. It appeared Eric Gomez from Golden Boy was the first to mention that Molina should be dq'd for the infraction.
2, The ref was trying to put them put in a nuetral corner. He clearly directed Kirkland away from his corner and into a neutral corner.
3, Kind of hard to keep 4 guys from jumping into the ring
4, Im sure it was Gomez who pointed it out. The corner man clearly entered the ring
The rule, 61.41(K)(6), in Texas is: "When a round ends before a contestant who was knocked down rises, the bell shall not ring, and the count shall continue. If the bell rises before the count of ten, the bell shall ring ending the round."
Source: Team Molina: Ref Violated Texas Rules in Kirkland Fight - Boxing News
The other question is whether there is even standing eight count if the knockdown happens at the very end of the round or as long as the contestant gets up, the round is over?
Bottom line: the referee should have used his discretion to allow the fight to continue, akin to when the PBF/Judah fight was permitted to continue after PBF's people stormed the ring. The facts here were even more compelling.
When a fighter gets dropped he takes a mandatory 8 count. That's what the ref' gave him. His mandatory 8. It wasn't a standing 8.
Yes it would of been nice if the ref let the fight continue. But I can't really knock him when all he was follow the rules
I don't know, from the text of the rule ("If the contestant rises before the count of ten, the bell shall ring ending the round."), I think Molina's camp has the better argument. It doesn't matter if you call it a standing 8-count or, more properly, refer to it as a mandatory 8-count. Either way, per the rule, the bell should have been rung as soon as he got to his feet, ending the round, and permitting the corner to enter.
Exactly, the Texas rule states once the fighters on his feet the round should end. The ref was in the wrong for issuing the 8 count!Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
Molina corner man had entered the ring before the ref issued the 8 count. So the DQ is still justifiedQuote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyExactly, the Texas rule states once the fighters on his feet the round should end. The ref was in the wrong for issuing the 8 count!Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
molina was on his feet before the corner entered the ring.
the 10 count ends when he stands up.
the bell had rung signaling the end of the round.
no foul. no DQ.
absolute bullshit call by ref & texas officials.
Molina didn't clinch that much against Lara and Cintron. Against Kirkland he decided to hold all night.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkIt'd be terribly boring and an eyesore unless Cotto knocked him out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Molina is effective, but I'm cool with never watching him fight again. I didn't remember him being such a clincher and spoiler against Cintron.
Horrible ref. Wasn't warning Molina for holding.
As for the DQ: how about the Texas commission doing their job and preventing people from entering the ring.
And a few boxing writers that look at the rules said the bell shouldn't have rung after he went down (it was so close in time it is understandable). But the round ends as soon as Molina got up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyExactly, the Texas rule states once the fighters on his feet the round should end. The ref was in the wrong for issuing the 8 count!Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
He was up before his corner entered the ring. You are correct. I just re-watched it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Apparently the rules about issuing the mandatory 8 when a fighter is dropped at the conclusion of a round vary from state to state. The rule about corner men entering the ring doesn't. It's pretty much the same every where. So with that said, I think blame falls on the corner more than on the ref.
that rule may be different from state to state... but it what happened was not against the rules in the state where the fight was taking place. so its irrelevant what the rules are elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseQuote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyExactly, the Texas rule states once the fighters on his feet the round should end. The ref was in the wrong for issuing the 8 count!Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
He was up before his corner entered the ring. You are correct. I just re-watched it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Apparently the rules about issuing the mandatory 8 when a fighter is dropped at the conclusion of a round vary from state to state. The rule about corner men entering the ring doesn't. It's pretty much the same every where. So with that said, I think blame falls on the corner more than on the ref.
you can't DQ someone when no rule has been broken.
It was a garbage call. Bell sounded, fighter up, round over. Even worse than any type of dq was that ref had to be reminded...or I believe encouraged by some shouting member of the promotion and a judge, to make a call he had already delt with as he saw fit as the 3rd man. It was a bum call based purely on some incidental technicality and had it been Kirkland it would not have happened.
The irony of this particular commission "enforcing strict rules" is comedic theater as its the very same who in past two months has dropped the ball on post fight drug testing and repeatedly allowed fighters to blow off contracted weights anywhere from 2 to 22 lbs.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccothat rule may be different from state to state... but it what happened was not against the rules in the state where the fight was taking place. so its irrelevant what the rules are elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseQuote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyExactly, the Texas rule states once the fighters on his feet the round should end. The ref was in the wrong for issuing the 8 count!Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
He was up before his corner entered the ring. You are correct. I just re-watched it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Apparently the rules about issuing the mandatory 8 when a fighter is dropped at the conclusion of a round vary from state to state. The rule about corner men entering the ring doesn't. It's pretty much the same every where. So with that said, I think blame falls on the corner more than on the ref.
you can't DQ someone when no rule has been broken.
The bell should have sounded again once Molina regained his feet. Officials error not Molinas corner
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless roccothat rule may be different from state to state... but it what happened was not against the rules in the state where the fight was taking place. so its irrelevant what the rules are elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseQuote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyExactly, the Texas rule states once the fighters on his feet the round should end. The ref was in the wrong for issuing the 8 count!Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
He was up before his corner entered the ring. You are correct. I just re-watched it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Apparently the rules about issuing the mandatory 8 when a fighter is dropped at the conclusion of a round vary from state to state. The rule about corner men entering the ring doesn't. It's pretty much the same every where. So with that said, I think blame falls on the corner more than on the ref.
you can't DQ someone when no rule has been broken.
The bell should have sounded again once Molina regained his feet, it's the officials fault not Molinas corners