http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m07E0bg0pLc
I always wondered why this fight never happened.
Well..... I guess I got my answer.
Too bad.... would've been good for boxing.
Printable View
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m07E0bg0pLc
I always wondered why this fight never happened.
Well..... I guess I got my answer.
Too bad.... would've been good for boxing.
That's all opinion.
My opinion is that in the late 90s JMM was not a big draw and that there were bigger fish to fry. He had fought one 'named' opponent and lost. Yeh he would probably have beaten Hamed and yeh he would go on to become a Hall of Famer, but at that time, he was just another fighter. Hamed had retired before JMM won his first world belt
What's even more puzzling is when Marquez was finally offered a huge career high payday he wouldn't go near The Naz.
Even HBO were dumbfounded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcD-WVZpyQ&list=FLJMd-nE9RRYO0DDTLOokDBQ&index=4&feature=plpp_video
Naz in his prime would knock out jmm he was the man
JMM would have handled Hamed with ease. Hamed got found out when he came up against his first elite opponent and quit. I like cocky fighters and he was good for the sport..but you gotta be able to back it up.
2 years as a mandatory? You're telling me he wasn't ducking JMM because there were bigger fish to fry? Who did he fight before Barerra that had any drawing power?
Naz was the draw.
Although for the record be beat the WBO, WBC, IBF, WBA/lineal featherweight champions. Guys with "world" titles, and unification matches, certainly bring more to the table than complete unknown mandatories.
As Big H said - Naz retired BEFORE Marquez had even won his first belt (Marquez actually cited his lack of a title as a reason for turning down the Naz fight when offered).
You have to understand that back then Naz was a much bigger draw than even Floyd Mayweather. Floyd's HBO deal paid around a quarter of what Naz was getting ($2m guarantee per fight).
Naz symbolizes what is wrong with British boxing....he's all flash and when he got his shit handed to him what did he do? Did he try to prove himself? Did he try to get better? Nope he took his ball and went home like a little punk.....a certain heavyweight has copied this career strategy but another classless dope baited him into fighting again.
The reason many people were put off by Calzaghe? He had a bit too much Naz in his style.
I don't mean to disrespect Calzaghe and I'm not denying Naz's talent I just think that when you let your talent do the talking you get more respect. It's great that guys like Hatton, Froch, Cleverly, Price, & Fury are turning things around for England....those guys are a lot more likeable than Naz who although entertaining was a Chav and everybody hates those bastards.
You've just slightly contradicted yourself here.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Naz symbolizes what is wrong with British boxing.. then you list a load of Brits that are nothing like him.
Have another try?
I listed fighters who weren't like Naz to show they are doing well without acting like tools....unlike say David Haye and DerriCk (with a fucking C) Chisora.....who spells Derrick with a C? No wonder that kid acts like a dopeQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterYou've just slightly contradicted yourself here.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Naz symbolizes what is wrong with British boxing.. then you list a load of Brits that are nothing like him.
Have another try?
Yeh exactly, which contradicts your point 'All that's wrong with British boxing' when you list a tonne of fighters that are not like that. Saying that he symbolized all that's wrong with British boxing insinuates that it's a common trait in British fighters, which the 2nd half of your post contradictsQuote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI listed fighters who weren't like Naz to show they are doing well without acting like tools....unlike say David Haye and DerriCk (with a fucking C) Chisora.....who spells Derrick with a C? No wonder that kid acts like a dopeQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterYou've just slightly contradicted yourself here.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Naz symbolizes what is wrong with British boxing.. then you list a load of Brits that are nothing like him.
Have another try?
David Haye, DerriCk Chisora both have a bit of Naseem in them and the Brits seem to gravitate to that attitude. I was giving a compliment to those in British boxing who are not like Naz.....do you not want me to? I was just saying it's easier from my point of view to like the fighters listed because they don't act like egotistical little bastards.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
The topic of Hamed ducking Marquez always comes up about every 3 years or so. I never liked the Prince and his over the top ring walks. Everything about him had me wanting to see him get a proper hiding to borrow a British phrase. I used to think he ducked him as I have always been a fan of Marquez, Mab and Morales. Years later if I am able to put my disdain for the man aside and examine it I don’t think he did.
If he was allowed to avoid Marquez for well over two years as a mandatory then the avoidance did not rest with him. I bet those sanctioning bodies loved the sanctioning fee gravy train he brought to the table. No way did they want to gamble that. Why risk such a high reward? In the end the collective steering committee in charge of his career were proved right. After he lost to Mab he mentally folded. Its not as if a money first philosophy is some big surprise. It can’t be used as a reason for someone a person likes and then dismissed as a reason for someone a person does not like.
Also in fairness if Hamed ducked Marquez then Morales and Mab did also at the time or it could be claimed that all three Mexicans ducked each other.
This does not even take into account what can only be described as the moronic management team assembled around Marquez at the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02Blol1q3Go
Some highlights from one of my favorite fights of all time. After suffering this humiliating defeat, I truly don't blame the "magic-carpet-flying" wonder for dodging Juan Manuel Marquez. Who on Earth would want another dose of THAT?
I think Naz did avoid him and wanted to make more money fighting less dangerous fighters.
That Prince Hamed mentally folded like a lawn chair after being humiliated by Barrera is one of the most well-known facts in boxing. He not only suffered his first loss, but was exposed and humiliated. Barrera not only beat him... he (Barrera) looked angry at times. He put a "man-beating" on a child. Proof? Hamed fought only one other time, more than a year later, against the "world-famous" Manuel Calvo, in the relative quiet and safety of the UK.... then slinked off quietly into the sunset to eat doughnuts and get fat. Giving it a second thought, he did well in not pursuing a fight with JMM. He would've been summarily destroyed. Tragic story if there ever was one.
@TitoFan trolls again with a complete dangling lugworm of an opening post, dressed up inexpertly as open minded enquiry and Lyle jumps in with a lazy and blinkered critique of British Boxing fan's and the supposed problems with the domestic scene here in the UK.
This is after @Althugz has already swung on TitoFans nuts despite being completely rational and a big fan of characters and entertainers like Naz who he was a fan of despite not knowing that he won and defended his international titles for 7 years and 20+ fights before he met Barrera. Apparently @El Kabong figured the problem comes down to Calzaghe, Haye and Chisora all having a bit to much Nas in their style.
Three very different fighting styles, but apparently to much like Naz whose own style was different again. It is the entertainment business and the four just mentioned all provided that in bucket loads. The idea that "It's great that guys like Hatton, Froch, Cleverly, Price, & Fury are turning things around for England....those guys are a lot more likeable than Naz who although entertaining was a Chav and everybody hates those bastards." is an anathema to any sense of rational discussion. It just proves that you already have a set idea of what defines British boxing and won't let reality shake that ingrained prejudice.
Calzaghe and Cleverly are not English, and yes it does matter because it shows how narrow your understanding of the British fight game is. @BIG H and @Fenster both nailed it by pointing out your owns posts glaring contradictory nature.
Who cares so much about fights that never happened, that they randomly become the soul topic of a thread and then are used solely to discredit a fighter and call him a coward?:rolleyes:
Trolling? Well, I never.....
It's nothing but a well presented documentary on Hamed, and his documented reluctancy to face Juan Manuel Marquez. Nothing "trollling" about that. Think about it... the guy loses for the very first time against MAB, and does so in humiliating, denigrating fashion... in front of thousands of dismayed fans. He goes into hiding, fights once more in the relative safety of the UK against a less than stellar opponent... and retires without so much of a hint of coming back. (Well, when he got fat he talked about coming back, in between bites of a doughnut).
Does that sound like someone who then wants to up and face JMM? What for? To get a second helping of "whup-ass"? Frankly, I don't blame the Prince.
Naz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make senseQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Actually Naz signed a three-fight deal with HBO after the Barrera loss with a rematch being part of the deal.
He definitely hinted at coming back.
He probably wouldn't have given Marquez another chance though. You can't mess everyone around and turndown career paydays then expect a second chance. Lets be honest.
To be honest @Greenbeanz I didn't call Calzaghe or Cleverly English, I used the term British....is Wales all of a sudden not in that little category?
The idea I mean to convey is that the more theatrical/drama queen boxers like Naz are not my favorite and in my view England (& Wales apparently) have produced many of these fighters who are all hat and no cattle. Certainly Calzaghe & Naz were World Class, but to me their theatrics take away from their actual skill. Call me old school, but I like a fighter to be confident, but not over the top cocky, I never have liked those kinds of fighters. When it gets to the point of David Haye where the build up to the fight is more hyped up and talked about than the fight, then you're hurting the sport, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. You fellas seem more than willing to shell out money to watch a retired boxer fight a banned boxer for some trinket title, I have to tell you as a boxing fan I'm more interested in Price & Fury and what they can do. They've not run their mouths, they've not made t-shirts, they've just fought and I respect that more than the attention whores.
I have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy warriorNaz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make senseQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
The third post in this thread substantiated it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy warriorNaz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make senseQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
That vid wont play but I vaguely remember it and just because HBO makes a claim does not make it so. Over all these years I have never seen Marquez ever even asked about it and yet it still persists. However the reverse is also the case with many that still believe Hamed ducked him. I fear the truth may lay somewhere in the middle.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe third post in this thread substantiated it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy warriorNaz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make senseQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
All a bit odd.
Im getting bored of seeing whiney little bitches going on about spelling.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI listed fighters who weren't like Naz to show they are doing well without acting like tools....unlike say David Haye and DerriCk (with a fucking C) Chisora.....who spells Derrick with a C? No wonder that kid acts like a dopeQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterYou've just slightly contradicted yourself here.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Naz symbolizes what is wrong with British boxing.. then you list a load of Brits that are nothing like him.
Have another try?
You have even managed to spell his name wrong still! Its Dereck! Also, he is english and I couldnt care less how its supposed to be spealt but his mother gave him an english name. Is it supposed to be spealt like that in England? You talk English (that english people invented) in america and spell it all fucking wrong. Like metre and litre, you spell it like a child would, phonetically (meter, liter). Its wrong. Im sure some mobiles are american because the predictive text gives the same spastic spellings;D
Also, you have to drag every topic round to something Klitschko related, what is that all about? Can you not just find a Klitschko fan site or are you a Klitschko disciple sent here to convert everyone?
HBO were requesting these matches from Naz so they have no need to lie. They make it clear that Barrera, Morales, MARQUEZ and Tapia were all offered MORE money than they'd ever made in their life to fight Naz on that date (it's the Augie Sanchez fight). They specifically target Marquez's baffling decision to turn it down as he spent ages claiming Naz ducked him.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitThat vid wont play but I vaguely remember it and just because HBO makes a claim does not make it so. Over all these years I have never seen Marquez ever even asked about it and yet it still persists. However the reverse is also the case with many that still believe Hamed ducked him. I fear the truth may lay somewhere in the middle.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe third post in this thread substantiated it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitI have heard that many times over the years but have never seen anything to substantiate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy warriorNaz offered jmm a fight just after the Mab vs morales fight but he refused it after chasing naz for years it don't make senseQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Here's some more proof with quotes from Marquez.
Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed
LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...
Marquez fought Daniel Jimenez for $5000 a week after this date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Just thought I'd paste the original post, since we seem to drift off the truth and into outrageous speculation as a thread moves along.
;)
Here is definitive proof straight from the paymasters mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Just thought I'd paste the original post, since we seem to drift off the truth and into outrageous speculation as a thread moves along.
;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcD-WVZpyQ&feature=player_embedded
Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHere is definitive proof straight from the paymasters mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Just thought I'd paste the original post, since we seem to drift off the truth and into outrageous speculation as a thread moves along.
;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcD-WVZpyQ&feature=player_embedded
Fact.
Here's a nice little article about why Hamed retired.
Naseem Hamed: Why did the ‘Prince’ Retire?
By the way, I'm on your side. I'm trying to argue Hamed's case. If you'll notice, this article was written by someone sympathetic to the Prince. And he proceeds to make a good case. The question being: "Why did Hamed retire when he did?" He had just been throroughly beaten, exposed, and humiliated by Barrera... then had one fight a year later, and inexplicably retired. The rationale being that Hamed did not want to risk further humiliation after being exposed. But in summary, some of Potter's points:
1. Hamed's troubles and split from both Frank Warren and his longtime trainer and mentor, Brendan Ingle.
2. The whole 9/11 thing. You know... with Hamed being a Muslim and all. Another psychological log on the emotional fireplace.
3. HBO and Adidas lost their faith in Hamed. Oh my God... how much can a man bear?
4. Finally... the kicker. Hamed had already earned SO MUCH money. Why would he need more? I mean... so what if you've just gotten exposed and embarrassed in front of millions of people. You've already made enough money to get fat on. What's the point on continuing?
Such an ironclad case. I'm telling you... this Potter character certainly changed MY mind about Prince Naseem, I'll tell you that. The nerve of anyone who would insinuate that the Prince would avoid someone like Juan Manuel Marquez.
I think one of your own countrymen said it best in another thread: I mean, it's not like Hamed was completely humiliated by the ONLY elite Mexican fighter he's ever met. What could Hamed possible expect out of a fight against JMM? If you ask me, I think he got out just in time.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Spot onQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
@TitoFan
You have got very confused by the writers point. He believes it's a misconception that Naz was "humiliated" against Barrera. Here is what he said - "The history of the 2001 fight between ‘Prince’ Naseem Hamed and Marco Antonio Barrera has been re-written. A dominant performance by Barrera, in a competitive fight that two judges scored 115-112, has been rewritten as schooling; an embarrassing and uncompetitive boxing lesson for Hamed.The historical reality of that fight is somewhat different to its current perception."
The writer lists numerous factors why Naz retired. "Humiliation" is not one of them.
Thanks for that article though. The writer makes points that Fenster, Big H, Saddo and numerous other Saddo posters have made many times.
There is nothing wrong with believing that Naz would duck Marquez. However, when confronted with evidence to the contrary it is very foolish to continue with this line of thinking.
"I don't mean to disrespect Calzaghe and I'm not denying Naz's talent I just think that when you let your talent do the talking you get more respect. It's great that guys like Hatton, Froch, Cleverly, Price, & Fury are turning things around for England..."Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Once again Lyle you are assuming. You are lumping all British fans together and while many enjoy the theatrics of fighters like Nas and Haye, many like you, are similarly unimpressed by their out of ring personas. The idea that any hype can be bad for the sport is ridiculous. Plenty of fight build ups have been more interesting than the actual fights. Britain does not have a patent on over the top cocky fighters, they are in the minority, but quite naturally their big mouths will make them more obvious from afar. Not only are you doing all other British boxers a disservice by suggesting that because a few brash fighters sell their fights in a manner you disapprove of , the whole "English" game needs turning round, like @Althugz you are also revealing your deep ignorance.
Altug I really do not understand your one minute liking characters like Nas and Eubank, who was a prime example of an over the top cocky fighter, and the next minute congratulating people who dismiss their achievements because they do not like their style. You can not separate the style of people like Nas, Eubank, Haye and Calzaghe from their brash and arrogant personalities. They are one and the same thing. You really think you can get in a Boxing ring and put on an act ? Supreme confidence even when misguided is what allows athletes to achieve great things. If you don't think you are great you will not dictate things in the ring. The belief that you are better than everyone else is the starting point once you get to these guy's levels.
For the record I am a fan of Marquez and Nas, Frazier and Ali, Hatton and Calzaghe. Price,Chisora and Haye, Quigg ,Munroe and Frampton. etc etc etc
As long as fans pay to watch the best fight guys who arent, why should they meet. Work as a wal mart greeter for 5 mil a year or work in a cole mine for the same dough. Cash is king and the easist path to it is what wins. Shit there are tons of us out ready to lay down cash to watch two lames in haye and chisora. And we ask why we don't get good match up's ? Cause they'll make tons with crap match up's like this. Doubt the super bowl would sell out if it were the rams and bills coming off loses playing this year, unless it was marketed towards boxing fans
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
And I think you totally misunderstood my intent on posting that link. Regardless of how many excuses the writer may have wanted to impress upon us about why and when Hamed quit... the timing of it still stands as odd. Prior to the Barrera fight, Hamed had pretty much had his way. He was able to: spend half an hour dancing and prancing for the camera on his way to the ring... come in on flying carpets... and basically putting on pre-fight shows that would make any choreographer envious. Then he would beat his opponent, and march triumphantly back to the dressing room.
Barrera changed all that. For all of Hamed's pre-fight bravado, Barrera owned him, manhandled him, thoroughly beat the snot out of him, and even shoved his face into the corner post for good measure.
Hamed waits a year... has one more fight so he can go out with a victory... and slinks off into the sunset. Why didn't he seek out JMM? Why didn't he seek a rematch? (Although a lot of good THAT would have done). Why did he just up and quit? Because as someone else already said on this forum... he acted like the childish kid when he gets beaten up, then takes his ball and goes home.
So with all of this as a backdrop, it sounds foolish when you or anyone else brings up the ridiculous point that somehow Juan Manuel Marquez ducked him, with the implication that JMM was scared of Hamed.
I've never said Marquez was "scared" of Naz.
I've just provided evidence that Marquez refused to fight Naz when given the chance. Marquez has verified it, Beristain (his manager/trainer) has verified it and HBO (who were putting up the money to make the fight) verified it.
Naz was UNBEATEN when Marquez turned down the fight. I'm sure with hindsight he was gutted watching Barrera beat Naz. I bet he was saying - "that could have been me, why did I duck the prince, Nacho you said he was too tricky and awkward, I'm fighting for peanuts when I could have made $500,000"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
You caught me in a good mood today (rare). So I did get a chuckle out of the blue bolded part.
What the hell.....
I do think JMM had all the tools to give Hamed a double dose of what Barrera gave him. But the Prince never gave him that chance, since he decided to abruptly quit and walk away. I didn't like the little prick... but he did have skills. And a fight between him and JMM would've been fun to watch.
Agreed, I dont think any of them were scared of any of them as fighters what was scarey for them would be the loss of the gravy train not the beating off another fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
And I think you totally misunderstood my intent on posting that link. Regardless of how many excuses the writer may have wanted to impress upon us about why and when Hamed quit... the timing of it still stands as odd. Prior to the Barrera fight, Hamed had pretty much had his way. He was able to: spend half an hour dancing and prancing for the camera on his way to the ring... come in on flying carpets... and basically putting on pre-fight shows that would make any choreographer envious. Then he would beat his opponent, and march triumphantly back to the dressing room.
Barrera changed all that. For all of Hamed's pre-fight bravado, Barrera owned him, manhandled him, thoroughly beat the snot out of him, and even shoved his face into the corner post for good measure.
Hamed waits a year... has one more fight so he can go out with a victory... and slinks off into the sunset. Why didn't he seek out JMM? Why didn't he seek a rematch? (Although a lot of good THAT would have done). Why did he just up and quit? Because as someone else already said on this forum... he acted like the childish kid when he gets beaten up, then takes his ball and goes home.
So with all of this as a backdrop, it sounds foolish when you or anyone else brings up the ridiculous point that somehow Juan Manuel Marquez ducked him, with the implication that JMM was scared of Hamed.
Aside from in the mind of the fighter they wouldnt think just one fight ahead its a ladder of events in the planning to make the most cash and get the punters involved.
I recon Nazes controllers avoided Marquez for a couple of years because of risk of the loss of the gravy train in one fight.
Same goes for Marquez, once Naz eventually decided he can have a shot, Marquez probably had his route to the best fighters and more paydays laid out in his mind and didnt want to take a risk with a big hitter for one paycheck and disrupt his aim at a great legacy (as it turned out).
Greenbeanz for future reference tagging me left, right and centre doesn't mean I will respond to or read your essays. I'm on my mobile mostly and don't see them. Luckily, I've realised that whenever you post it's almost a guarantee my name will come up and sure enough, it did.
I never said I liked Naz for the record. I said I appreciated his attitude and character. Also that he was one of the last of an era. Similar to Eubank. Guys who created drama, got you excited and made you want to tune in to their fights. Their records were worse than JC's (which is saying something) but they made a lot more money because of the excitement they brought to the sport.
That is wayyy different to Joe Calzaghe. Calzaghe was arrogant but had zero attitude or charisma like Naz/Eubank. I also respect Eubank because if you ask him, in hindsight, now about his career he'll be truthful about his limitations. JC is still as arrogant in retirement.