To those who think the decision was fair..........

Stop and think. With all the indications to the contrary... with all the outpouring of disbelief and outrage over the decision... with the humongous majority believing it was a robbery... do you really (I mean really) in your heart believe the decision was fair? Just a small sampling of the indications to the contrary below:

1. CompuBox - Stop dumping on CompuBox 'cause it's the trendy thing to do. Contrary to what was stated in another thread, it's not only the overall punches in the fight that get counted. They're also counted round-by-round. And according to CompuBox, Pacquiao landed more punches than Bradley in 10 out of the 12 rounds. And to those who just don't believe in the concept, feel free to come up with another objective tool with which to judge a boxing match.

2. Tim Bradley himself was not sure he won the fight. He said he had to look at the tape. In all the years I've been watching boxing, I had never seen a fighter admit to something like that. This is likely the biggest proof of all.

3. ESPN's SportsCenter, who normally cares as much about boxing decisions as it does about chess match results, and has rarely questioned a high-profile fight decision openly..... said on the air that the "American Idol" judges would make better boxing judges than the ones who judged the fight.

4. Roger Mayweather, who admittedly feels that the possibility of a mega-fight between Floyd and Pac may have diminished with the result, but still very much dislikes and discredits Pacquiao.... said there was no way Bradley won the fight.


Not to mention the avalanche of boxing fans, trainers, boxing experts, etc. who all thought that Pac was robbed. All the major entities, such as the Associated Press, had Pacquiao winning comfortably. Yahoo Sports boxing experts were unanimous in their opinion. Sports Illustrated boxing analysts thought Pacquiao won comfortably. Beyond that, you just have to look at the results of the poll on this forum, in addition to the scores collected by "fightscorecollector"..... and it should start sinking in that there was no way in bloody hell that Bradley even came close to winning that fight.

The standard response: "Rewatch it without the audio" has already been done by more than a few, and the response is still the same. There is no "audio bias" excuse here.

Only the same people who discredit and dislike Pac thought Bradley won. The hate for pac is just as bad as the love for him, same thing goes for floyd. I guess when you get that good, that happens.

Oh btw, even Marquez said manny won alteast 4 rounds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Stop and think.

2. Tim Bradley himself was not sure he won the fight. He said he had to look at the tape. In all the years I've been watching boxing, I had never seen a fighter admit to something like that. This is likely the biggest proof of all.

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"Can you believe that? Unbelievable," Arum said. "I went over to Bradley before the decision and he said, 'I tried hard but I couldn't beat the guy.'"


bibliography:
Tim Bradley defeats Manny Pacquiao on controversial split decision | NJ.com




When the winning boxer knows he lost we have a problem.

I forgot one other, very important and unprecedented reaction:


5. Paddy Power, the Irish betting site, refunded the money to all those who bet on Pacquiao... as someone else had already reported on the forum.


And if I were to keep searching, I'm sure I'd come up with a few other doozies.

Fuck off!

As if a boxer would say that!

Pacquaio hardly looked amazed when the decision was read out!

As for Marquez saying Manny wan 4 rounds.... There are 12!;D

The only people really upset with this decision are Arum, the Mayweathers and Pacquiaos team. They can now knock down the revenue for a Mayweather v Pacquiao fight down by at least 50%. even the die hard idiots in here with the tissues out do not beleive that on his best day Manny could beat Floyd and they wouldnt want to witness his slaughter;D

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Originally Posted by ross

Fuck off!

As if a boxer would say that!

Pacquaio hardly looked amazed when the decision was read out!

As for Marquez saying Manny wan 4 rounds.... There are 12!;D

The only people really upset with this decision are Arum, the Mayweathers and Pacquiaos team. They can now knock down the revenue for a Mayweather v Pacquiao fight down by at least 50%. even the die hard idiots in here with the tissues out do not beleive that on his best day Manny could beat Floyd and they wouldnt want to witness his slaughter;D

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"Ill have to go back and watch the tape and see if I won."

How many victorious boxers said that

To your first point, "stop and think," I would contend that anyone who is arguing that Bradley won or that it was a close fight that could have gone either way has already stopped and thought about the fight.

The folks in the media carrying on and toting around proverbial pitchforks, are the people who, in my opinion, have not stopped or thought. They're just echoing what they heard on the broadcast and from a few outspoken commentators.

Neither Compubox, nor Tim Bradley, nor Sportscenter, nor Roger Mayweather are perfectly objective or infallible sources of truth.

1. Compubox is a computer program that is operated by humans. It operates on a punch-by-punch basis, instead of a round-by-round basis, but that doesn't mean it's impervious to error. Humans still input the punches and they can be swayed by crowd noise and biases just as judges and commentators can.

2. Tim Bradley gave an honest answer and said he'd watch the fight to see how it went. That doesn't play into my opinion of the bout any more than the 1000s of boxers who all say they thought they won. I'm sure if Bradley knew that the media would hold his answer against him to further discredit his win he would've given the standard boilerplate response of "Of course I thought I won the fight."

3. Sportscenter anchors know as much about boxing as they do about nuclear physics. If I want an opinion on what hair gel to use, I'd listen to them carefully and respectfully. I'll determine my boxing opinions without their input.

4. Roger Mayweather has a huge financial interest in 1) preserving Pacquiao's drawing power for a fight with his nephew; and 2) in making sure that high-status, high profile fighters like Pacquiao -- and his nephew -- get the benefit of doubt from the judges in future contests even if it's not clear they were the better man in the ring.

I scored the fight a draw myself. If pressed to favor one man over the other, I would've favored Pacquiao after my first watch. But the more I read from disgruntled fans telling me I need to watch the fight over again, the more I am impressed by what Bradley was able to do.

Hes being polite.

Manny hardly did the Hopkins act either;D

Many cant take drugs any more and has no skills, he falls over his own feet!

Watching the last round reminded me of Calzaghe v Lacy. Pacquiao just looks slow and clumsy against an actual live opponent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Fuck off!

As if a boxer would say that!

Pacquaio hardly looked amazed when the decision was read out!

As for Marquez saying Manny wan 4 rounds.... There are 12!;D

The only people really upset with this decision are Arum, the Mayweathers and Pacquiaos team. They can now knock down the revenue for a Mayweather v Pacquiao fight down by at least 50%. even the die hard idiots in here with the tissues out do not beleive that on his best day Manny could beat Floyd and they wouldnt want to witness his slaughter;D

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Whether or not Pacquiao would ever beat Floyd has nothing to do with the fact that this was still a bullshit decision.

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

Very unfair decision, Pac should have won a UD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uptoscratch

To your first point, "stop and think," I would contend that anyone who is arguing that Bradley won or that it was a close fight that could have gone either way has already stopped and thought about the fight.

The folks in the media carrying on and toting around proverbial pitchforks, are the people who, in my opinion, have not stopped or thought. They're just echoing what they heard on the broadcast and from a few outspoken commentators.

Neither Compubox, nor Tim Bradley, nor Sportscenter, nor Roger Mayweather are perfectly objective or infallible sources of truth.

1. Compubox is a computer program that is operated by humans. It operates on a punch-by-punch basis, instead of a round-by-round basis, but that doesn't mean it's impervious to error. Humans still input the punches and they can be swayed by crowd noise and biases just as judges and commentators can.

2. Tim Bradley gave an honest answer and said he'd watch the fight to see how it went. That doesn't play into my opinion of the bout any more than the 1000s of boxers who all say they thought they won. I'm sure if Bradley knew that the media would hold his answer against him to further discredit his win he would've given the standard boilerplate response of "Of course I thought I won the fight."

3. Sportscenter anchors know as much about boxing as they do about nuclear physics. If I want an opinion on what hair gel to use, I'd listen to them carefully and respectfully. I'll determine my boxing opinions without their input.

4. Roger Mayweather has a huge financial interest in 1) preserving Pacquiao's drawing power for a fight with his nephew; and 2) in making sure that high-status, high profile fighters like Pacquiao -- and his nephew -- get the benefit of doubt from the judges in future contests even if it's not clear they were the better man in the ring.

I scored the fight a draw myself. If pressed to favor one man over the other, I would've favored Pacquiao after my first watch. But the more I read from disgruntled fans telling me I need to watch the fight over again, the more I am impressed by what Bradley was able to do.

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Good post overall. However, I disagree with your assessment about Compubox for this fight. I'm perfectly aware that Compubox is not an exact science and can't be used to gauge an entire fight based on the total punches landed/thrown. But it also shows punches landed on a per round basis.

That being said, even if Compubox made an error in their tally - say give or take 20 punches for each fighter, it still stands that Pac clearly out landed Tim by a wide margin. In terms of power punches alone, Compubox had Manny out pointing Tim by almost 2 to 1. Not even close. I would agree with your assessment if the figures were closer but the margin on this fight seems to be definitive in Pac's favor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

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I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uptoscratch

To your first point, "stop and think," I would contend that anyone who is arguing that Bradley won or that it was a close fight that could have gone either way has already stopped and thought about the fight.

The folks in the media carrying on and toting around proverbial pitchforks, are the people who, in my opinion, have not stopped or thought. They're just echoing what they heard on the broadcast and from a few outspoken commentators.

Neither Compubox, nor Tim Bradley, nor Sportscenter, nor Roger Mayweather are perfectly objective or infallible sources of truth.

1. Compubox is a computer program that is operated by humans. It operates on a punch-by-punch basis, instead of a round-by-round basis, but that doesn't mean it's impervious to error. Humans still input the punches and they can be swayed by crowd noise and biases just as judges and commentators can.

(It is still the most objective tool available at the moment and, until some other revolutionary method comes along, it's all we've got, other than the observation and judgement of judges, some of whom could benefit from continuing education in the technique of judging prizefights. And yes.... it's based on a punch-by-punch basis, but these can be easily tabulated per round, rather than just over the entire fight, as was incorrectly stated by another poster).

2. Tim Bradley gave an honest answer and said he'd watch the fight to see how it went. That doesn't play into my opinion of the bout any more than the 1000s of boxers who all say they thought they won. I'm sure if Bradley knew that the media would hold his answer against him to further discredit his win he would've given the standard boilerplate response of "Of course I thought I won the fight."

(Bradley reportedly commented immediately after the fight that "he couldn't beat this guy" or something to that effect. The amount of weight anyone wants to put on a statement like that is strictly personal. I feel it carries a lot of weight).

3. Sportscenter anchors know as much about boxing as they do about nuclear physics. If I want an opinion on what hair gel to use, I'd listen to them carefully and respectfully. I'll determine my boxing opinions without their input.

(If was just SportsCenter complaining about the results, you'd have a stronger point. My point is to show the vast number of similar reactions to the same boxing decision).

4. Roger Mayweather has a huge financial interest in 1) preserving Pacquiao's drawing power for a fight with his nephew; and 2) in making sure that high-status, high profile fighters like Pacquiao -- and his nephew -- get the benefit of doubt from the judges in future contests even if it's not clear they were the better man in the ring.

(Yeah ok... I won't defend Roger Mayweather too much. He clearly is not a disinterested party).

I scored the fight a draw myself. If pressed to favor one man over the other, I would've favored Pacquiao after my first watch. But the more I read from disgruntled fans telling me I need to watch the fight over again, the more I am impressed by what Bradley was able to do.

(This statement gives away a little of subjectiveness on your part. If you're being swayed over the comments of others, then you've ceased to objectively judge the fight on its own merits).

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See above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

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that's pretty good, would be better if you could watch each questionable round, it still shows the writers bias because they are picking out what they think lands or doesn't land - Bradley was only showing shots with no power how the hell did Manuel Medina ever win a fight ;)

Compubox is bullshit.

It counts anything that isnt a jab as a powerpunch. I bet every shitty little pitty pat punch is counted by those morons that fuck around with it. Do they ever even show who operates the system and show their credentials?

Seeing as there is such massive controversy maybe the same people should be filmed, rewatching the tape in slightly slower motion and press these magic compubox buttons. Until that happens I wont believe anything as Arum is involved;)

Iv said it elsewhere in this forum but ill say it again, the
Ast round looked like Calzaghe v Lacy;D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

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I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?

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Thing is, Compubox scores for this fight was tremendously in favor of Pac. If it was closer then you can make a case how Compubox is totally erroneous but when you have qualified individuals (I'm assuming you'd need some qualifications to be able to score punches for Compubox) seeing one fighter out landing his opponent by an almost 2 to 1 margin, then it's quite possible that my assessment and most everyone else's are right in that Manny did out point Tim.

Also, I tend to respect media/press row scores as I'm aware that they've been fans of the sport far longer than myself and most everyone else. Otherwise, why would they be there in the first place?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

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I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?

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Are you taking the piss?

You're saying nobodies opinion counts unless they are a qualified judge?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Compubox is bullshit.

It counts anything that isnt a jab as a powerpunch. I bet every shitty little pitty pat punch is counted by those morons that fuck around with it. Do they ever even show who operates the system and show their credentials?

Seeing as there is such massive controversy maybe the same people should be filmed, rewatching the tape in slightly slower motion and press these magic compubox buttons. Until that happens I wont believe anything as Arum is involved;)

Iv said it elsewhere in this forum but ill say it again, the
Ast round looked like Calzaghe v Lacy;D

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Ah yes....

In a perfect world, the system would have buttons for: jabs, hooks, uppercuts, crosses, and even low blows. But until we can find a superhuman individual who has 10 fingers in each of his 3 arms.... and can operate the system at the speed at which the fight occurs in real time..... we'll just have to settle for the "shitty" system we have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

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that's pretty good, would be better if you could watch each questionable round, it still shows the writers bias because they are picking out what they think lands or doesn't land - Bradley was only showing shots with no power how the hell did Manuel Medina ever win a fight ;)

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I don't see how they would be biased for a fighter when 94% of these people had it in favor of Manny (based on a poll I've seen). I would imagine that they're scoring the fight independently and without listening to outside influences. Don't see any reason why they would be biased for this fight alone as they've already shown they're more than willing and able to score a fight against Manny (see Marquez).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I forgot one other, very important and unprecedented reaction:


5. Paddy Power, the Irish betting site, refunded the money to all those who bet on Pacquiao... as someone else had already reported on the forum.


And if I were to keep searching, I'm sure I'd come up with a few other doozies.

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This is not as big a deal as it seems. It's basically a PR exercise. Their liabilites would have been very small on an event like this (still.. great stuff for people that gambled with them).

[QUOTE=Fenster;1078548][QUOTE=ross;1078538][QUOTE=arcanum26;1078533]Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

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I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?

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Are you taking the piss?

You're saying nobodies opinion counts unless they are a qualified judge?

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No im not taking the fucking piss!

I used to box and a year ago I became a qualified aba judge. The is a massive difference between who you think is winning when you are watching a fight as enjoyment to when you are a qualified judge and have to sit and concentrate and view the fight as objectively as you can. It makes me laugh all these twats with their score cards, show me some credentials and ill pay attention, until then ill just do Sheldon Coopers look of "haughty derision" at these sissy cry girls with their make believe scores.

You wouldnt ask a fan of ER to check out your heart?

Haughty derision below!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8g9OszJFIzg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I forgot one other, very important and unprecedented reaction:


5. Paddy Power, the Irish betting site, refunded the money to all those who bet on Pacquiao... as someone else had already reported on the forum.


And if I were to keep searching, I'm sure I'd come up with a few other doozies.

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This is not as big a deal as it seems. It's basically a PR exercise. Their liabilites would have been very small on an event like this (still.. great stuff for people that gambled with them).

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You're right. It's excellent PR for the site. But just the fact that this is an unprecedented move is, to me, an indication that they're aware of the massive reaction against the decision, which in itself is an indication of just how bad the decision really was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

(This statement gives away a little of subjectiveness on your part. If you're being swayed over the comments of others, then you've ceased to objectively judge the fight on its own merits).

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To clarify, it's not what I'm hearing from other fans that is changing my opinion, it's my subsequent viewing of the fight and specific rounds within the fight that is changing my opinion.

For example, that "second-viewing" scorecard that was posted above, said that Round 5 was "a smoking gun round." I was intrigued by that statement so I went back and watched round 5 very carefully, at half-speed and at points in 1/4 speed, in HD.

If you do the same, you will see that Pacquiao does not land a punch for the first 2:24 of that round. He throws a left hand around 1:53 (not 1:47 as that site states) and Jim Lampley says "Boom, another left hand." But Bradley actually slips the punch completely.

During that first 2½ minutes, while Pacquiao is reportedly "stalking" Bradley (translation: walking around doing nothing) Bradley is repeatedly touching his jab to Pacquiao's face. Most of the time it's caught on the gloves, but it connects at least a half-dozen times, sometimes stiffly. Definitely more than the Compubox figure of 2, which is clearly wrong.

Around the :50 mark, Pacquiao jumps in, misses a bunch of wild shots, and Lampley says, "More trading" even through nothing actually lands. Bradley then purposefully re-establishes his position from where he has been peppering Pacquiao with his jab all round, and Lampley says "more retreating." His commentary is just ignorant of what's actually happening.

At :36 (not :34), Pacquiao stuns Bradley with an lefty uppercut from an awkward angle. Lampley and Steward comment on Pacquiao's "power," but clearly Bradley was caught off balance because he didn't see the punch coming. Pacquiao tried to take advantage, but Bradley recovers quickly and all of Pacquiao's follow-up punches miss or are deflected.

After that they exchange some ineffective combinations, with Pacquiao landing a couple slap-punches to the head and Bradley getting some partly-deflected body shots.

On my initial watch, I gave the round to Pacquiao, because of that left hand, which was the single most impactful punch of the round. But on re-watching, I would've scored it for Bradley, because that punch didn't actually hurt him, and Bradley did much more to score points and control the action for the other 2:59 of the round.

So instead of it being a "smoking gun" for the conspiracy theorists, I saw the round as further supporting the judge's scoring.

[QUOTE=ross;1078553][QUOTE=Fenster;1078548][QUOTE=ross;1078538]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

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I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?

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Are you taking the piss?

You're saying nobodies opinion counts unless they are a qualified judge?

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No im not taking the fucking piss!

I used to box and a year ago I became a qualified aba judge. The is a massive difference between who you think is winning when you are watching a fight as enjoyment to when you are a qualified judge and have to sit and concentrate and view the fight as objectively as you can. It makes me laugh all these twats with their score cards, show me some credentials and ill pay attention, until then ill just do Sheldon Coopers look of "haughty derision" at these sissy cry girls with their make believe scores.

You wouldnt ask a fan of ER to check out your heart?

Haughty derision below!

YouTube - The Big Bang Theory - Sheldon meets his date.

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As a qualified amatuer judge your opinion on pro boxing is worthless.

We are discussing pro boxing. You need to qualify as a pro judge, right?

[QUOTE=Fenster;1078557][QUOTE=ross;1078553][QUOTE=Fenster;1078548]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

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I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?

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Are you taking the piss?

You're saying nobodies opinion counts unless they are a qualified judge?

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No im not taking the fucking piss!

I used to box and a year ago I became a qualified aba judge. The is a massive difference between who you think is winning when you are watching a fight as enjoyment to when you are a qualified judge and have to sit and concentrate and view the fight as objectively as you can. It makes me laugh all these twats with their score cards, show me some credentials and ill pay attention, until then ill just do Sheldon Coopers look of "haughty derision" at these sissy cry girls with their make believe scores.

You wouldnt ask a fan of ER to check out your heart?

Haughty derision below!

YouTube - The Big Bang Theory - Sheldon meets his date.

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As a qualified amatuer judge your opinion on pro boxing is worthless.

We are discussing pro boxing. You need to qualify as a pro judge, right?

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I didnt say won way or the other who I thought wan:(

My point was if you read, that there is a massive difference to being a dunce sat in front of a tv screen crying in to a hanky as his favourite fighter was shit and didnt win and a qualified judge scoring a fight.

I used to watch our amateur dinner boxing shows and thought I could score a fight until I took the judges exam and sat with a judge over 10 shows learning what to score. There is a huge difference and you are all talking out your asses as not one of you has a clue how to score a fucking fight!

Ill be surprised if there is anyone else as qualified as myself in here to judge a bout. There may be trainers or coaches but I bet even they havent trained as judges. Yes I agree that pro and am is a world of difference apart but im talking about knowing the difference between watching a bout as a fan and watching as a qualified scoring judge. Until your a qualified judge you wont realise the difference;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uptoscratch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

(This statement gives away a little of subjectiveness on your part. If you're being swayed over the comments of others, then you've ceased to objectively judge the fight on its own merits).

---

To clarify, it's not what I'm hearing from other fans that is changing my opinion, it's my subsequent viewing of the fight and specific rounds within the fight that is changing my opinion.

For example, that "second-viewing" scorecard that was posted above, said that Round 5 was "a smoking gun round." I was intrigued by that statement so I went back and watched round 5 very carefully, at half-speed and at points in 1/4 speed, in HD.

If you do the same, you will see that Pacquiao does not land a punch for the first 2:24 of that round. He throws a left hand around 1:53 (not 1:47 as that site states) and Jim Lampley says "Boom, another left hand." But Bradley actually slips the punch completely.

During that first 2½ minutes, while Pacquiao is reportedly "stalking" Bradley (translation: walking around doing nothing) Bradley is repeatedly touching his jab to Pacquiao's face. Most of the time it's caught on the gloves, but it connects at least a half-dozen times, sometimes stiffly. Definitely more than the Compubox figure of 2, which is clearly wrong.

Around the :50 mark, Pacquiao jumps in, misses a bunch of wild shots, and Lampley says, "More trading" even through nothing actually lands. Bradley then purposefully re-establishes his position from where he has been peppering Pacquiao with his jab all round, and Lampley says "more retreating." His commentary is just ignorant of what's actually happening.

At :36 (not :34), Pacquiao stuns Bradley with an lefty uppercut from an awkward angle. Lampley and Steward comment on Pacquiao's "power," but clearly Bradley was caught off balance because he didn't see the punch coming. Pacquiao tried to take advantage, but Bradley recovers quickly and all of Pacquiao's follow-up punches miss or are deflected.

After that they exchange some ineffective combinations, with Pacquiao landing a couple slap-punches to the head and Bradley getting some partly-deflected body shots.

On my initial watch, I gave the round to Pacquiao, because of that left hand, which was the single most impactful punch of the round. But on re-watching, I would've scored it for Bradley, because that punch didn't actually hurt him, and Bradley did much more to score points and control the action for the other 2:59 of the round.

So instead of it being a "smoking gun" for the conspiracy theorists, I saw the round as further supporting the judge's scoring.

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i think you need to rewatch that round.
pac landed at least 6 solid shots where as bradley landed weak jabs and a body shot.

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Originally Posted by ross

Ill be surprised if there is anyone else as qualified as myself in here to judge a bout. There may be trainers or coaches but I bet even they havent trained as judges. Yes I agree that pro and am is a world of difference apart but im talking about knowing the difference between watching a bout as a fan and watching as a qualified scoring judge. Until your a qualified judge you wont realise the difference;)

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Get her :gay5:

I knew there would be some pathetic childish twat remark but its the truth which is why theres no better response. How can someone who doesnt know how to score a fight, criticise someone whos qualified? You dont know they are doing it wrong if you dontknow how to do it yourself!

There is nothing stopping you from becoming a judge, why not do it so your opinion counts?

[QUOTE=ross;1078559][QUOTE=Fenster;1078557][QUOTE=ross;1078553]

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

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I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?

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Are you taking the piss?

You're saying nobodies opinion counts unless they are a qualified judge?

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No im not taking the fucking piss!

I used to box and a year ago I became a qualified aba judge. The is a massive difference between who you think is winning when you are watching a fight as enjoyment to when you are a qualified judge and have to sit and concentrate and view the fight as objectively as you can. It makes me laugh all these twats with their score cards, show me some credentials and ill pay attention, until then ill just do Sheldon Coopers look of "haughty derision" at these sissy cry girls with their make believe scores.

You wouldnt ask a fan of ER to check out your heart?

Haughty derision below!

YouTube - The Big Bang Theory - Sheldon meets his date.

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As a qualified amatuer judge your opinion on pro boxing is worthless.

We are discussing pro boxing. You need to qualify as a pro judge, right?

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I didnt say won way or the other who I thought wan:(

My point was if you read, that there is a massive difference to being a dunce sat in front of a tv screen crying in to a hanky as his favourite fighter was shit and didnt win and a qualified judge scoring a fight.

I used to watch our amateur dinner boxing shows and thought I could score a fight until I took the judges exam and sat with a judge over 10 shows learning what to score. There is a huge difference and you are all talking out your asses as not one of you has a clue how to score a fucking fight!

Ill be surprised if there is anyone else as qualified as myself in here to judge a bout. There may be trainers or coaches but I bet even they havent trained as judges. Yes I agree that pro and am is a world of difference apart but im talking about knowing the difference between watching a bout as a fan and watching as a qualified scoring judge. Until your a qualified judge you wont realise the difference;)

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You're saying that the millions that watch boxing, the hundreds of dedicated pressmen/writers and the thousands of boxers, trainers and people that spend their life in boxing are not fit to give an accurate opinion because they haven't passed an exam.

What do you think of Adalaide Byrd?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

I knew there would be some pathetic childish twat remark but its the truth which is why theres no better response. How can someone who doesnt know how to score a fight, criticise someone whos qualified? You dont know they are doing it wrong if you dontknow how to do it yourself!

There is nothing stopping you from becoming a judge, why not do it so your opinion counts?

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Ross, judges make as many errors and inept scoring decisions like everyone else. Just because you have qualifications doesn't mean your judgement is infallible and others should just keep mum as their opinions don't count for anything.

[QUOTE=Fenster;1078563][QUOTE=ross;1078559][QUOTE=Fenster;1078557]

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

---

I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?

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Are you taking the piss?

You're saying nobodies opinion counts unless they are a qualified judge?

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No im not taking the fucking piss!

I used to box and a year ago I became a qualified aba judge. The is a massive difference between who you think is winning when you are watching a fight as enjoyment to when you are a qualified judge and have to sit and concentrate and view the fight as objectively as you can. It makes me laugh all these twats with their score cards, show me some credentials and ill pay attention, until then ill just do Sheldon Coopers look of "haughty derision" at these sissy cry girls with their make believe scores.

You wouldnt ask a fan of ER to check out your heart?

Haughty derision below!

YouTube - The Big Bang Theory - Sheldon meets his date.

---

As a qualified amatuer judge your opinion on pro boxing is worthless.

We are discussing pro boxing. You need to qualify as a pro judge, right?

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I didnt say won way or the other who I thought wan:(

My point was if you read, that there is a massive difference to being a dunce sat in front of a tv screen crying in to a hanky as his favourite fighter was shit and didnt win and a qualified judge scoring a fight.

I used to watch our amateur dinner boxing shows and thought I could score a fight until I took the judges exam and sat with a judge over 10 shows learning what to score. There is a huge difference and you are all talking out your asses as not one of you has a clue how to score a fucking fight!

Ill be surprised if there is anyone else as qualified as myself in here to judge a bout. There may be trainers or coaches but I bet even they havent trained as judges. Yes I agree that pro and am is a world of difference apart but im talking about knowing the difference between watching a bout as a fan and watching as a qualified scoring judge. Until your a qualified judge you wont realise the difference;)

---

You're saying that the millions that watch boxing, the hundreds of dedicated pressmen/writers and the thousands of boxers, trainers and people that spend their life in boxing are not fit to give an accurate opinion because they haven't passed an exam.

What do you think of Adalaide Byrd?

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Im sure theres lots of car fanatics in the world but I cant see an owner of a Bugati Veyron driving to a pub to ask them for a service;D

Like I said, until you have sat down with a judge and have been explained to what you are looking at and scoring, no, you really dont know!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

I knew there would be some pathetic childish twat remark but its the truth which is why theres no better response. How can someone who doesnt know how to score a fight, criticise someone whos qualified? You dont know they are doing it wrong if you dontknow how to do it yourself!

There is nothing stopping you from becoming a judge, why not do it so your opinion counts?

---

Likewise I knew a gentle injection of humour would be lost on you because you're a cock Ross.

People in all walks of life, all professions get 'qualified' to do things they are still shit at. If getting qualified was the be all and end all we wouldn't be having this and every other shit decision thread now would we.

Take your head out of your arsehole (although from your posting I think you like it there) and have a word.

Oh and well done on becoming qualified.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

I knew there would be some pathetic childish twat remark but its the truth which is why theres no better response. How can someone who doesnt know how to score a fight, criticise someone whos qualified? You dont know they are doing it wrong if you dontknow how to do it yourself!

There is nothing stopping you from becoming a judge, why not do it so your opinion counts?

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Ross, judges make as many errors and inept scoring decisions like everyone else. Just because you have qualifications doesn't mean your judgement is infallible and others should just keep mum as their opinions don't count for anything.

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Have you ever even spoke with a judge and asked how to score a fight?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

I knew there would be some pathetic childish twat remark but its the truth which is why theres no better response. How can someone who doesnt know how to score a fight, criticise someone whos qualified? You dont know they are doing it wrong if you dontknow how to do it yourself!

There is nothing stopping you from becoming a judge, why not do it so your opinion counts?

---

Likewise I knew a gentle injection of humour would be lost on you because you're a cock Ross.

People in all walks of life, all professions get 'qualified' to do things they are still shit at. If getting qualified was the be all and end all we wouldn't be having this and every other shit decision thread now would we.

Take your head out of your arsehole (although from your posting I think you like it there) and have a word.

Oh and well done on becoming qualified.

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Ill understand what im looking at while a massive majority, (the same who are bitching about this fight which wasnt a robbery!) will not have even tried to understand how to judge/score a fight and will just give a round to someone they "think" did better.

[QUOTE=ross;1078565][QUOTE=Fenster;1078563][QUOTE=ross;1078559]

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arcanum26

Came up on a site that I think provides a good analysis of the fight scores - judges and press row. I suggest you guys check it out. Quite a good read.

Pacquiao-Bradley: A second viewing with round by round judges cards, round by round press row cards and round by round compubox stats | Michael D. Sellers

---

I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?

---

Are you taking the piss?

You're saying nobodies opinion counts unless they are a qualified judge?

---

No im not taking the fucking piss!

I used to box and a year ago I became a qualified aba judge. The is a massive difference between who you think is winning when you are watching a fight as enjoyment to when you are a qualified judge and have to sit and concentrate and view the fight as objectively as you can. It makes me laugh all these twats with their score cards, show me some credentials and ill pay attention, until then ill just do Sheldon Coopers look of "haughty derision" at these sissy cry girls with their make believe scores.

You wouldnt ask a fan of ER to check out your heart?

Haughty derision below!

YouTube - The Big Bang Theory - Sheldon meets his date.

---

As a qualified amatuer judge your opinion on pro boxing is worthless.

We are discussing pro boxing. You need to qualify as a pro judge, right?

---

I didnt say won way or the other who I thought wan:(

My point was if you read, that there is a massive difference to being a dunce sat in front of a tv screen crying in to a hanky as his favourite fighter was shit and didnt win and a qualified judge scoring a fight.

I used to watch our amateur dinner boxing shows and thought I could score a fight until I took the judges exam and sat with a judge over 10 shows learning what to score. There is a huge difference and you are all talking out your asses as not one of you has a clue how to score a fucking fight!

Ill be surprised if there is anyone else as qualified as myself in here to judge a bout. There may be trainers or coaches but I bet even they havent trained as judges. Yes I agree that pro and am is a world of difference apart but im talking about knowing the difference between watching a bout as a fan and watching as a qualified scoring judge. Until your a qualified judge you wont realise the difference;)

---

You're saying that the millions that watch boxing, the hundreds of dedicated pressmen/writers and the thousands of boxers, trainers and people that spend their life in boxing are not fit to give an accurate opinion because they haven't passed an exam.

What do you think of Adalaide Byrd?

---

Im sure theres lots of car fanatics in the world but I cant see an owner of a Bugati Veyron driving to a pub to ask them for a service;D

Like I said, until you have sat down with a judge and have been explained to what you are looking at and scoring, no, you really dont know!

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If bloke down the pub had an NVQ he'd be mad not to wouldn't he?

Dudes qualified.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

I knew there would be some pathetic childish twat remark but its the truth which is why theres no better response. How can someone who doesnt know how to score a fight, criticise someone whos qualified? You dont know they are doing it wrong if you dontknow how to do it yourself!

There is nothing stopping you from becoming a judge, why not do it so your opinion counts?

---

Ross, judges make as many errors and inept scoring decisions like everyone else. Just because you have qualifications doesn't mean your judgement is infallible and others should just keep mum as their opinions don't count for anything.

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Have you ever even spoke with a judge and asked how to score a fight?

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Nope. How do you score a fight Ross?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

I knew there would be some pathetic childish twat remark but its the truth which is why theres no better response. How can someone who doesnt know how to score a fight, criticise someone whos qualified? You dont know they are doing it wrong if you dontknow how to do it yourself!

There is nothing stopping you from becoming a judge, why not do it so your opinion counts?

---

Ross, judges make as many errors and inept scoring decisions like everyone else. Just because you have qualifications doesn't mean your judgement is infallible and others should just keep mum as their opinions don't count for anything.

---

Have you ever even spoke with a judge and asked how to score a fight?

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Nope. How do you score a fight Ross?

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I can only speak for amateur but my whole point is that I found out I didnt know what I was looking at before I trained as a judge, even though id boxed myself. Until you even attempt to understand what scores then your opinion means nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcanum26

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ross

I knew there would be some pathetic childish twat remark but its the truth which is why theres no better response. How can someone who doesnt know how to score a fight, criticise someone whos qualified? You dont know they are doing it wrong if you dontknow how to do it yourself!

There is nothing stopping you from becoming a judge, why not do it so your opinion counts?

---

Ross, judges make as many errors and inept scoring decisions like everyone else. Just because you have qualifications doesn't mean your judgement is infallible and others should just keep mum as their opinions don't count for anything.

---

Have you ever even spoke with a judge and asked how to score a fight?

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Nope. How do you score a fight Ross?

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I can only speak for amateur but my whole point is that I found out I didnt know what I was looking at before I trained as a judge, even though id boxed myself. Until you even attempt to understand what scores then your opinion means nothing.

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Does that mean everyone is as thick as you? ;D