Where do you rate Wladimir Klitschko among all-time heavyweights?

For what he's accomplished so far in his career, where do you rate Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?

He's beaten a lot of very good fighters (Byrd X2, Haye, Ibragimov, Chagaev, etc.) but never a really great one.

But let's not forget, there are other heavyweights generally ranked among the all-time greats who don't have a prime, ATG HW on their resumes.

Wlad has taken many "0"s and stopped many durable opponents who had never been stopped before (Chambers, Chagaev, Thompson, Brock, Barrett, Castillo, Brewster, Shufford, Shultz, etc.).

Problem for Wlad is he's only as good as who he's fought.

As dominant as he is I can't put him in the top ten because he hasn't beaten any guys of that calibre... Maybe he could be, but the fighters aren't around to show it. Having him in the top 15 is pure speculation.

I have him around 20, again not because I doubt his ability... just the merit of his opponents, he's fought everybody, you have to give him that, but this era is weak.

if you put all of the hw champs in with each other from the last 100 years i have no doubt that a prime klit (or both prime klits) would be right up there

if you were to rate the same fighters on entertainment it would suprize me if wlad wasnt last and vital somewhere very close

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

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You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.
:confused:

Good thread. I think Wlad is a magnificent athlete, a total pro who has brought respect to the division and he is a very skilled technical boxer. At 6'6", with his skills, he would have been a threat to any fighter who ever lived.

However, I wouldnt put him in the top ten, because,

- he is a bit chinny, and he sometimes fights like he knows it
- unfortunately for him, he hasnt had a serious rival or a defining fight (he has either won really easily, or lost quite easily. I'm sure he is brave and has heart but he hasnt been forced to show it much yet
- he does have a bit of a boring style.

I actually thing he is the better BOXER of the Klits, but his brother is the better FIGHTER

I voted 16-25. I think he falls just short of the very best men i.e. Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Louis, Lennox, Holmes and Evander. But them guys all have the advantage of Hindsight and we all see things rosier in the past.

Also the guys above had better rivals than Wlad. But to be honest I do think he would fall short of the very best, it's a shame he'll probably never fight another great HW.

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

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You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.
:confused:

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I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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Tony Thompson was a mandatory defense and Wlad didn't want to fight him again but he wasn't going to give up his belt for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

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You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.
:confused:

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I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

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I thought that it was obvious from my post that I wanted to see him fight Chisora.
Anyway, I still want this fight to take place.
You know that Chisora's losses were all competitive and debatable.
In the eyes of some, Chisora won all of his fights up to Vitali and for that he deserved his title shot and still does.
That was the reason for that fight being marketable.
Because most realize that Chisora's losses are not real telling losses.
Alexander Povetkin wants no piece of Wladimir Klitschko.
He gave up his mandatory title shot after he won the IBF eliminations over Eddie Chambers. Remember?
What I meant was unwarranted was Thompson's second shot at Wladimir Klitschko's title, not the first one.
I meant that Wladimir should have fought Chisora rather than take on Thompson the second time, not the first.

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

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You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.
:confused:

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I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

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I thought that it was obvious from my post that I wanted to see him fight Chisora.
Anyway, I still want this fight to take place.
You know that Chisora's losses were all competitive and debatable.
In the eyes of some, Chisora won all of his fights up to Vitali and for that he deserved his title shot and still does.
That was the reason for that fight being marketable.
Because most realize that Chisora's losses are not real telling losses.
Alexander Povetkin wants no piece of Wladimir Klitschko.
He gave up his mandatory title shot after he won the IBF eliminations over Eddie Chambers. Remember?
What I meant was unwarranted was Thompson's second shot at Wladimir Klitschko's title, not the first one.
I meant that Wladimir should have fought Chisora rather than take on Thompson the second time, not the first.

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The second fight was a mandatory defence though. There will be no market for a Wlad - Chisora fight after tonight. It'll be Arreola next and what's most saddening is he's probably most deserving right now.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

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You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.
:confused:

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I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

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I thought that it was obvious from my post that I wanted to see him fight Chisora.
Anyway, I still want this fight to take place.
You know that Chisora's losses were all competitive and debatable.
In the eyes of some, Chisora won all of his fights up to Vitali and for that he deserved his title shot and still does.
That was the reason for that fight being marketable.
Because most realize that Chisora's losses are not real telling losses.
Alexander Povetkin wants no piece of Wladimir Klitschko.
He gave up his mandatory title shot after he won the IBF eliminations over Eddie Chambers. Remember?
What I meant was unwarranted was Thompson's second shot at Wladimir Klitschko's title, not the first one.
I meant that Wladimir should have fought Chisora rather than take on Thompson the second time, not the first.

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The second fight was a mandatory defence though. There will be no market for a Wlad - Chisora fight after tonight. It'll be Arreola next and what's most saddening is he's probably most deserving right now.

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David Haye's management is not so sure about your claim here, or otherwise it would have been scheduled for twelve rounds.

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

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You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.
:confused:

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I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

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I thought that it was obvious from my post that I wanted to see him fight Chisora.
Anyway, I still want this fight to take place.
You know that Chisora's losses were all competitive and debatable.
In the eyes of some, Chisora won all of his fights up to Vitali and for that he deserved his title shot and still does.
That was the reason for that fight being marketable.
Because most realize that Chisora's losses are not real telling losses.
Alexander Povetkin wants no piece of Wladimir Klitschko.
He gave up his mandatory title shot after he won the IBF eliminations over Eddie Chambers. Remember?
What I meant was unwarranted was Thompson's second shot at Wladimir Klitschko's title, not the first one.
I meant that Wladimir should have fought Chisora rather than take on Thompson the second time, not the first.

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The second fight was a mandatory defence though. There will be no market for a Wlad - Chisora fight after tonight. It'll be Arreola next and what's most saddening is he's probably most deserving right now.

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David Haye's management is not so sure about your claim here, or otherwise it would have been scheduled for twelve rounds.

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Oh right. Frank Warren the lying shit said it was the governing bodies who decided it was a ten rounder.

I think he beats Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Marciano and alot of old school Heavies. I feel Holyfield, Ali, Holmes, Lewis and Vitali are the only ones who can beat him at this point. I really wish he would have fought Sanders again and righted the wrong.

Wlad's win over Haye seems a bit better now because of Haye's impressive showing yesterday.

Greatest eastern european HW so far. Compartmentalising wlad and labelling him with a no. makes others feel wlad is not as big a threat toward's there hero's hence he will never get close to the american top 10. Truth is none of those men fought in a global era of the sport, half of them would be CW's/LHW'S today and prime wlad would be a massive threat to anyone, ever! Who care's if someone stick's him between a pair of number's! Truth is he would anihilate i.e joe frazier RIP.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Greatest eastern european HW so far. Compartmentalising wlad and labelling him with a no. makes others feel wlad is not as big a threat toward's there hero's hence he will never get close to the american top 10. Truth is none of those men fought in a global era of the sport. And prime wlad would be a massive threat to anyone! Who care's if someone stick's him between a pair of number's! Truth is he would anihilate joe frazier RIP.

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No chance. Joe was cut from a much tougher cloth than anyone around now and he took shots off a man who would decapitate either Klit and just kept coming until the ref couldn't let it go anymore. FACT. :D

i have to say i dont think joe frazier could beat either klit

he might be cruiserweight champ tho :)

anyone who rates wladımır klıtschko ın the top 10 was born after 1980. guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Greatest eastern european HW so far. Compartmentalising wlad and labelling him with a no. makes others feel wlad is not as big a threat toward's there hero's hence he will never get close to the american top 10. Truth is none of those men fought in a global era of the sport, half of them would be CW's/LHW'S today and prime wlad would be a massive threat to anyone, ever! Who care's if someone stick's him between a pair of number's! Truth is he would anihilate i.e joe frazier RIP.

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I'm not sure whether I interpreted this correctly. Would you care to elaborate?

I think in an ever expanding and ever changing list the only 'fair' and cohesive way you can rank anyone is doing by an era rather than all time.

The simple fact that improvements in health science has changed our height and diet, that alone is a major major factor. Lets not forget conditioning and supplemental nutrition fighters take now. All these play a major factor and we haven't even touched the part about the fighters innate skills, fight style, or resume.

However if I had a gun put to my head I would put both brothers at top 15 with Vitali far ahead of wlad. I think his sense of timing and his more consistent use of the jab and the actual ability to fight on the inside elevates him in the ranks

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

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Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

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You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

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You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.
:confused:

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I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

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I thought that it was obvious from my post that I wanted to see him fight Chisora.
Anyway, I still want this fight to take place.
You know that Chisora's losses were all competitive and debatable.
In the eyes of some, Chisora won all of his fights up to Vitali and for that he deserved his title shot and still does.
That was the reason for that fight being marketable.
Because most realize that Chisora's losses are not real telling losses.
Alexander Povetkin wants no piece of Wladimir Klitschko.
He gave up his mandatory title shot after he won the IBF eliminations over Eddie Chambers. Remember?
What I meant was unwarranted was Thompson's second shot at Wladimir Klitschko's title, not the first one.
I meant that Wladimir should have fought Chisora rather than take on Thompson the second time, not the first.

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Sorry but that's not true he was well beaten by Tyson Fury.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I'm not sure whether I interpreted this correctly. Would you care to elaborate?

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I'll guess that he was referring to The Cold War era and how over time there have been more and more fighters coming from the former Soviet states.


I don't rate Wladimir top 10 yet, but he's not far off. Wladimir has been a dominant champion and looks to continue that for the foreseeable future. Wlad has a great record in title fights, he's defended his title often and with great success, and given what he personally has control of he's been an All-Time great boxer. The things Wladimir cannot control do not help his case, but they shouldn't hurt it so much either, he's in a "weak era", he has 0 true rivals...the closest guys would have to be Chris Byrd and shit I can't even think of anyone else, but he wins, he wins by KO and he's a brilliant technical fighter. Certainly people consider being a great technical fighter boring, but Tim Duncan is a boring basketball player, but it doesn't make him bad. By the end of his career wladimir Klitschko will be a top 10 heavyweight of All-Time.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Greatest eastern european HW so far. Compartmentalising wlad and labelling him with a no. makes others feel wlad is not as big a threat toward's there hero's hence he will never get close to the american top 10. Truth is none of those men fought in a global era of the sport, half of them would be CW's/LHW'S today and prime wlad would be a massive threat to anyone, ever! Who care's if someone stick's him between a pair of number's! Truth is he would anihilate i.e joe frazier RIP.

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I'm not sure whether I interpreted this correctly. Would you care to elaborate?

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It's quite simple...soviets and cubans did not turn pro up until a decade or so ago. Cubans rarely defect even now but they are trickling through (see the castillo brothers, solis, mike perez etc)

Americans fought mainly americans with a frew brits and the odd european chucked in. It's much more diverse nowadays. Plus half of the last boxing century was corrupt!

20 at best

Whoever said he has either won easily or lost easily had it right .

Though didn't someone once deck him twice yet he went on to win ? Can't remember who it was and never saw the fight so don't know how deep a trouble he was actually in ?

Anyway apart from that he has always been safety first and let little guys take him to the late rounds when he should have had them out of there inside of 3.

And for all the slagging off Haye got for not engaging with Wlad, Wlad never lived up to his pre fight pledge to KO Haye either

Wladimir fought Sam Peter after the losses to Sanders & Brewster & the piss poor showing vs Williamson and AT THE TIME this was seen as a crossroads bout with Wlad on the decline and Sam Peter seemingly being "the next big thing". That was a huge win for Wladimir, it turned his career around entirely he was knocked down a total of 3 times though some people question where the punches landed although Wladimir never looked to the ref for help and never complained. The win vs Peter was HUGE, he's barely lost a round since then.

Top 20...bah....go ahead and name better 19 better heavyweights than Wladimir. Sure others have had harder eras, but there have been others with weaker eras and they haven't accomplished what Wladimir has done. Wlad is a great champion.

as for letting little guys go deep into fights with him...Johnson-Ketchel anyone? Marciano-Charles? Holyfield-Moorer?

Right Lyle - see fact below.

in his prime Frank Bruno would have knocked out Wlad.

I rest my case

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I'm not sure whether I interpreted this correctly. Would you care to elaborate?

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I'll guess that he was referring to The Cold War era and how over time there have been more and more fighters coming from the former Soviet states.


I don't rate Wladimir top 10 yet, but he's not far off. Wladimir has been a dominant champion and looks to continue that for the foreseeable future. Wlad has a great record in title fights, he's defended his title often and with great success, and given what he personally has control of he's been an All-Time great boxer. The things Wladimir cannot control do not help his case, but they shouldn't hurt it so much either, he's in a "weak era", he has 0 true rivals...the closest guys would have to be Chris Byrd and shit I can't even think of anyone else, but he wins, he wins by KO and he's a brilliant technical fighter. Certainly people consider being a great technical fighter boring, but Tim Duncan is a boring basketball player, but it doesn't make him bad. By the end of his career wladimir Klitschko will be a top 10 heavyweight of All-Time.

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Good post, Lyle. You're by far the biggest Klitschko fan on this forum.... but this is one of your more objective posts so far on the subject of Wlad. And yes.... there are things outside of Wlad's control. And yes.... he's got no true rivals (damn it!!), and that hurts him some. IMO, it also hurts him some that lately his procession of hapless victims....er.... I mean.... opponents... have entered the ring with only "survival" on their minds. Again, not in Wlad's control. The IBF choosing Thompson (again) as his mandatory..... out of Wlad's control.

I also feel that if he keeps busy and continues to mow down his opponents.... he should be considered as one of the top all-time HW's. How high he'll be ranked will always be a matter of personal opinion, but he'll certainly be ranked highly. If some of these highly touted HW prospects develop quickly and can challenge Wlad while he's still active.... and if these fights can be quality fights.... THAT will help Wlad's final place among history's heavyweight champions.

He started out on shaky ground with 3 KO losses, but at least he avenged one of those. Yes.... he's a bit too cautious sometimes for my personal liking, but a lot of that is on the challenger. If you're going to allow me to jab the crap out of you and you're not even going to attempt to take my title..... I'm more than willing to accomodate you. I'm still waiting and crossing my fingers hoping someone eventually shows up to fight.

I chose to address your response rather than the "Philosopher's", for obvious reasons. To claim "Americans fought mainly Americans" and that boxing corruption was limited to the last century, IMO does not even warrant a response.

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

Right Lyle - see fact below.

in his prime Frank Bruno would have knocked out Wlad.

I rest my case

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Right....Wlad would have still been in diapers at that time though ;)



If we're talking Prime vs Prime then I hate to tell you but Wlad whips Bruno's ass every day of the week and twice on Sunday

Big Frank would have him by the 5th. Wlad would have been terrified of Frank's punching power.


In both their primes if I was forced, with a gun to my head, to put everything I had on one outcome then I would honestly have gone Frank by KO in round 5.

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

Big Frank would have him by the 5th. Wlad would have been terrified of Frank's punching power.


In both their primes if I was forced, with a gun to my head, to put everything I had on one outcome then I would honestly have gone Frank by KO in round 5.

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....that because he did so well vs fighters with punching power?

Always felt that Bruno was too robotic, bit like seeing one of those tennis players that got all the shots and are text book players but other guy knows where every shot is going as it is in the text book and hammers the return past them.

Think Bruno's management did well with him and he earnt a good living and a nice guy but thats it really. Forgetting fights like the Coetzee fight were just them putting names in with him that were long past their peak.

Every title fight he had he couldn't have picked a better time to fight any of the opponents frankly. Lewis was having one of his off nights like he did, Witherspoon was out of condition, McCall was in the middle of a breakdown, 1st Tyson fight, Tyson was out of condition and mentally gone and 2nd Tyson fight was after Tyson done his prison time. Also Douglas had pretty much given you a road map on how to beat Tyson a map that theoretically Bruno had the tools for.

Wlad to win as soon as he is warmed up.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Wlad to win as soon as he is warmed up.

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exactly - would be all the window Frank needed

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Wlad to win as soon as he is warmed up.

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exactly - would be all the window Frank needed

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Wlad is very skilled both mentally and physically in terms of controlling the pace of a fight. I think he would stop Bruno inside 10 rounds.

Frank was pretty dumb in all honesty. The mcall fight was one of the worst fights i have ever seen, bruno looked about as fluid as a chunk of rock.

Don't be thinking I am saying Bruno was some kind of great fighter here by the way. Pretty fucking far from it.

But he could get to Wlad

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

Don't be thinking I am saying Bruno was some kind great fighter here by the way. Pretty fucking far from it.

But he could get to Wlad

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His face could get to Wlad's fist

I think I may need to start a poll ??

If it went further than 5 its Wlads though

poll now up

It's not that I don't like Bruno, but Bruno was just barely a World Class fighter, hell he was 1-3 in title bouts and his win was over Oliver McCall and he had 0 successful title defenses. The Lennox Lewis that beat Bruno was ripe for the picking, David Tua would have beaten that Lennox Lewis....hell Andrew Golota might have beaten that Lennox Lewis