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Just checked the ratings since weekend and seen Khan still ranked above Garcia (1 and 2 respectively, champion vacant)
Boxing Ratings | RingTV
Don't make sense to me that. I don't mind them doing this when there is a close controversial decision, eg Pac v Bradley or Lewis v Holyfield I, but when fighter B sparks fighter A , regardless of how talented either is, then B should jump A in the ratings.
I usually swear by the Ring ratings but this is bollocks.
Maybe they haven't updated them yet?
well records are updated and they both moved places since last week ??
actually thinking about it it could be monthly - in which case I will let them off ;)
despite being a Khan hater I still think he is better than Garcia anyway
Yeah he proved it at the weekend.;)
They do their updates on Tuesdays. Calm down.
thats just lazy - havent they heard of seven day weeksQuote:
Originally Posted by shza
I hope Garcia doesn't rematch himQuote:
Originally Posted by roberto duran legend
They're up now:
Champion: Danny Garcia
1. Lucas Matthysse
2. Amir Khan
3. Zab Judah
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Mike Alvarado
6. Marcos Maidana
7. Erik Morales
8. Khabib Allakhverdiev
9. Denis Shafikov
10. Ajose Olusegun
Personally, I think this is fine except it *really* overrates Judah -- and Khan should probably take more of a hit, though I'm not sure who you'd put ahead of him. I might make JMM #2, despite his lack of experience at the weight, Alvarado 3, Khan 4, Judah 5, and then keep the rest as they are (this in complete igonrance of the guys they've got at 8-10).
Here's their explanation: RING Ratings Update: Where does Khan fit in? | RingTV
if stoke city beat man u they wouldnt be above them in the lb4lb football ratings
khan has had a good run up until garcia, mixing in some top company and only loosing to a cheat since prescott
garcia has also had a good run but not mixed it quite in the same company as khan has
khan probably still deserves to be above garcia
can't compare football and boxing in that respect
you can, say a journeyman beat khan, should he be rated above him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
Probably not, but a fellow champion comparably ranked who beats him should.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44you can, say a journeyman beat khan, should he be rated above him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
If Stoke City were 2 points behind Man Utd and then beat them they would be above them. But you can't compare the two because one uses a subjective ranking sytem and one uses a mathematical points system.
you can compare themQuote:
Originally Posted by SeraphanxProbably not, but a fellow champion comparably ranked who beats him should.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44you can, say a journeyman beat khan, should he be rated above him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
If Stoke City were 2 points behind Man Utd and then beat them they would be above them. But you can't compare the two because one uses a subjective ranking sytem and one uses a mathematical points system.
say it was right at the start of the season, stoke have had a cracking start, just 2 points behind united and they beat them, stoke would then be above united in the league but would you still have them as lb4lb a better team?
mayweather fights some donkey in his next fight, the donkey knocks him out, the donkey is now world champion and mayweather isnt
can he be considered lb4lb a better fighter?
If everytime a fighter beat another fighter he had to go above that fighter on the lb4lb rankings then the rankings would be all over the shop and would mean nothing (id at all maintainable)
take for instance if garcia had to go above khan then realistically khan would come down a few and garcia up a few, that would probably put khan below fighters like maidana morales and olusegan and/or garcia above fighters like marquez
the conculsion is the football analogy is a very good one, to put garcia above khan would be like ranking a previous team that were not in the top 10 above man united (not in the league but in a mythical lb4lb ranking) just coz they beat them
Yeah ok, I see what you're saying. But in this case Khan and Garcia were comparably ranked, so if they then fight and one of them wins, the winner should overtake the other, in my opinion. If Khan is ranked no1 and fights someone ranked no10 and loses I'm not saying the same would apply, but if they're only one or two places apart in the rankings that's different. All I'm saying is that boxing is subjective, so it's all about people's opinions. Whereas football is a mathematical thing - if you win, you get 3 points. If you get more points than everyone else, you win the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44you can compare themQuote:
Originally Posted by SeraphanxProbably not, but a fellow champion comparably ranked who beats him should.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44you can, say a journeyman beat khan, should he be rated above him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
If Stoke City were 2 points behind Man Utd and then beat them they would be above them. But you can't compare the two because one uses a subjective ranking sytem and one uses a mathematical points system.
say it was right at the start of the season, stoke have had a cracking start, just 2 points behind united and they beat them, stoke would then be above united in the league but would you still have them as lb4lb a better team?
mayweather fights some donkey in his next fight, the donkey knocks him out, the donkey is now world champion and mayweather isnt
can he be considered lb4lb a better fighter?
If everytime a fighter beat another fighter he had to go above that fighter on the lb4lb rankings then the rankings would be all over the shop and would mean nothing (id at all maintainable)
take for instance if garcia had to go above khan then realistically khan would come down a few and garcia up a few, that would probably put khan below fighters like maidana morales and olusegan and/or garcia above fighters like marquez
the conculsion is the football analogy is a very good one, to put garcia above khan would be like ranking a previous team that were not in the top 10 above man united (not in the league but in a mythical lb4lb ranking) just coz they beat them
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeraphanxYeah ok, I see what you're saying. But in this case Khan and Garcia were comparably ranked, so if they then fight and one of them wins, the winner should overtake the other, in my opinion. If Khan is ranked no1 and fights someone ranked no10 and loses I'm not saying the same would apply, but if they're only one or two places apart in the rankings that's different. All I'm saying is that boxing is subjective, so it's all about people's opinions. Whereas football is a mathematical thing - if you win, you get 3 points. If you get more points than everyone else, you win the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44you can compare themQuote:
Originally Posted by SeraphanxProbably not, but a fellow champion comparably ranked who beats him should.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44you can, say a journeyman beat khan, should he be rated above him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
If Stoke City were 2 points behind Man Utd and then beat them they would be above them. But you can't compare the two because one uses a subjective ranking sytem and one uses a mathematical points system.
say it was right at the start of the season, stoke have had a cracking start, just 2 points behind united and they beat them, stoke would then be above united in the league but would you still have them as lb4lb a better team?
mayweather fights some donkey in his next fight, the donkey knocks him out, the donkey is now world champion and mayweather isnt
can he be considered lb4lb a better fighter?
If everytime a fighter beat another fighter he had to go above that fighter on the lb4lb rankings then the rankings would be all over the shop and would mean nothing (id at all maintainable)
take for instance if garcia had to go above khan then realistically khan would come down a few and garcia up a few, that would probably put khan below fighters like maidana morales and olusegan and/or garcia above fighters like marquez
the conculsion is the football analogy is a very good one, to put garcia above khan would be like ranking a previous team that were not in the top 10 above man united (not in the league but in a mythical lb4lb ranking) just coz they beat them
im not sure garcia was that high before was he?
I agree that a double world champ should be ranked higher than he is, but it would kind of break the rules of the lb4lb ranking system to move him up so high after one win, which in a way makes the lb4lb system a bit daft
Back to my first post.
If I kayoed a guy ranked above me I would expect to go above him regardless of how good he was - though not always if by a close decision (especially a controversial one)
With football its over a season where everyone plays everyone twice - doesn't happen in boxing (super six closest thing I have known to it). No team is going to go through the season unbeaten (ok its happened a couple of times in history) and there will always be a Swansea beating Man City type game in a season.
If Stoke won the premier league then yes they would be classed as better than them - till the following the season (boxing equivalent of a rematch)
naa you missunderstandQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
the ring ring rankings doesnt consider who is WBA, WBC, IBF or any other champ so if there was an equivalent in football it doesnt consider who is top of the league, it considers who the board feel is the best boxer currently as if there was a football equivalent they would consider who is the best football team currently
an example would be chelsea just beat baca in the european cup final, chelsea are european champions but are they lb4lb the best team in europe?
the first half of a season could be dominated by united, the second by city, united could win the league still yet city could be still considered lb4lb the better team at the end of the season
If everytime one fighter koed another he had to jump above the guy he just koed the rankings would be a shambles
he just koed him, yet he was koed by him in the fight before and the first guy who was koed koed the last guy who was koed, what would you do then? :)
i do agree tho garcia should maybe be ranked a bit higher but not neccessarily above khan
Erics, Really? Garcia knocked Khan out. There is no debate there. Every single ratings panel has Garcia above Khan.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44naa you missunderstandQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
the ring ring rankings doesnt consider who is WBA, WBC, IBF or any other champ so if there was an equivalent in football it doesnt consider who is top of the league, it considers who the board feel is the best boxer currently as if there was a football equivalent they would consider who is the best football team currently
an example would be chelsea just beat baca in the european cup final, chelsea are european champions but are they lb4lb the best team in europe?
the first half of a season could be dominated by united, the second by city, united could win the league still yet city could be still considered lb4lb the better team at the end of the season
If everytime one fighter koed another he had to jump above the guy he just koed the rankings would be a shambles
he just koed him, yet he was koed by him in the fight before and the first guy who was koed koed the last guy who was koed, what would you do then? :)
i do agree tho garcia should maybe be ranked a bit higher but not neccessarily above khan
as far as I remember in Ring ratings anyone who has kayoed anyone else has gone above them
think there may have been the odd exception when someone was fighting out of their weight class (though I can't name any so don't ask)
naa weve gone past the fact that garcia isnt ranked above khan we are on the fact that just coz he knocked him out doesnt mean he should beQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratErics, Really? Garcia knocked Khan out. There is no debate there. Every single ratings panel has Garcia above Khan.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44naa you missunderstandQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
the ring ring rankings doesnt consider who is WBA, WBC, IBF or any other champ so if there was an equivalent in football it doesnt consider who is top of the league, it considers who the board feel is the best boxer currently as if there was a football equivalent they would consider who is the best football team currently
an example would be chelsea just beat baca in the european cup final, chelsea are european champions but are they lb4lb the best team in europe?
the first half of a season could be dominated by united, the second by city, united could win the league still yet city could be still considered lb4lb the better team at the end of the season
If everytime one fighter koed another he had to jump above the guy he just koed the rankings would be a shambles
he just koed him, yet he was koed by him in the fight before and the first guy who was koed koed the last guy who was koed, what would you do then? :)
i do agree tho garcia should maybe be ranked a bit higher but not neccessarily above khan
ill use the example i said above
this is fantasy by the way i know it didnt happen
Khan Kos Maidana
Garcia Koes Khan
Maidana Koes Garcia
all in the space of a few months
on top of that maidana has been on a bad run of results aside from the garcia fight
in this instance who should be ranked above who?
This might usually be the case, obviously not in this instance tho and it couldnt be put in as a hard and fast rule as the rankings could become a shamblesQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
yes that scenario is a tough one where the panel will need to sit (they debate something similar today re Khan's rating if you check) but in this instance Fighter B has sparked A - end of story. So A's ranking should be lower. The end:)Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44naa weve gone past the fact that garcia isnt ranked above khan we are on the fact that just coz he knocked him out doesnt mean he should beQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratErics, Really? Garcia knocked Khan out. There is no debate there. Every single ratings panel has Garcia above Khan.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44naa you missunderstandQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
the ring ring rankings doesnt consider who is WBA, WBC, IBF or any other champ so if there was an equivalent in football it doesnt consider who is top of the league, it considers who the board feel is the best boxer currently as if there was a football equivalent they would consider who is the best football team currently
an example would be chelsea just beat baca in the european cup final, chelsea are european champions but are they lb4lb the best team in europe?
the first half of a season could be dominated by united, the second by city, united could win the league still yet city could be still considered lb4lb the better team at the end of the season
If everytime one fighter koed another he had to jump above the guy he just koed the rankings would be a shambles
he just koed him, yet he was koed by him in the fight before and the first guy who was koed koed the last guy who was koed, what would you do then? :)
i do agree tho garcia should maybe be ranked a bit higher but not neccessarily above khan
ill use the example i said above
this is fantasy by the way i know it didnt happen
Khan Kos Maidana
Garcia Koes Khan
Maidana Koes Garcia
all in the space of a few months
on top of that maidana has been on a bad run of results aside from the garcia fight
in this instance who should be ranked above who?
nope not the endQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKOyes that scenario is a tough one where the panel will need to sit (they debate something similar today re Khan's rating if you check) but in this instance Fighter B has sparked A - end of story. So A's ranking should be lower. The end:)Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44naa weve gone past the fact that garcia isnt ranked above khan we are on the fact that just coz he knocked him out doesnt mean he should beQuote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratErics, Really? Garcia knocked Khan out. There is no debate there. Every single ratings panel has Garcia above Khan.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44naa you missunderstandQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
the ring ring rankings doesnt consider who is WBA, WBC, IBF or any other champ so if there was an equivalent in football it doesnt consider who is top of the league, it considers who the board feel is the best boxer currently as if there was a football equivalent they would consider who is the best football team currently
an example would be chelsea just beat baca in the european cup final, chelsea are european champions but are they lb4lb the best team in europe?
the first half of a season could be dominated by united, the second by city, united could win the league still yet city could be still considered lb4lb the better team at the end of the season
If everytime one fighter koed another he had to jump above the guy he just koed the rankings would be a shambles
he just koed him, yet he was koed by him in the fight before and the first guy who was koed koed the last guy who was koed, what would you do then? :)
i do agree tho garcia should maybe be ranked a bit higher but not neccessarily above khan
ill use the example i said above
this is fantasy by the way i know it didnt happen
Khan Kos Maidana
Garcia Koes Khan
Maidana Koes Garcia
all in the space of a few months
on top of that maidana has been on a bad run of results aside from the garcia fight
in this instance who should be ranked above who?
if i sparked mayweather should i be ranked above him considering i have never before had a professional fight?
yes - you've proved yourself better
That whole discussion is moot. They *were* comparatively ranked before the fight. 1 and 2 in the division, I think (since the Ring had removed Peterson).
And the Ring announced before the fight that fight was for its 140 lb championship. If it's a title bout, the winner is the champ and is necessarily ranked above the guy he beat.
Like, Sonny Boy Jaro (there's your journeyman) became the flyweight champ and outranked Wonjongkam and everyone else when he won that fight (and he'll now drop back down after losing).
are chelsea better than bacalona?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
can't compare football and boxing in that respect ;)
yup you canQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44yup you canQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
ha, i got negged for this
and to the dude who negged me, you can and i did just a couple of posts above