the "real"greatest Heavyweight!

*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.

*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.

*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.

Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...

bring it on... im ready for all comers!

Some fair points , but you are also saying Vitali could beat film actor Dolph Lundgrin who played the fictional Ivan Drago ?

Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .

I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .

@frankenfrank the moment anyone reads 4man the rest of your posts become blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. If you can't be bothered to type Fore, your attention span is poor.

You'd have thought such gushing fans of Vitali might be able to spell his surname correctly.

I like Vitali. Shame we'll never know how good he was. What's his best win?! Nothing tops giving a tough fight to an old, out of shape and uninterested Lewis in a fight were he ended up getting stopped.

As with his brother, you can't deny his dominance or that with his size he'd trouble anybody. But neither have had the moments in the ring or the opponents needed to claim that they're the greatest of all time. Just this era

Certainly is summer around here.
Enjoying your school holiday.

You know he has brother? Wladimir

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .

I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .

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Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.:rolleyes:

So Foreman would be too much for Vitali and Vitali would be too much for Ali but Ali could cope with Foreman's power but Ali couldn't cope with Vitali's strength but foreman was too much for vitali and - fuck I've gone cross eyed

this is the dumbest thread in history. the original poster needs to get a CT scan done on his brain immediately. he is only one step above drooling in an uncontrollable fashion.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

So Foreman would be too much for Vitali and Vitali would be too much for Ali but Ali could cope with Foreman's power but Ali couldn't cope with Vitali's strength but foreman was too much for vitali and - fuck I've gone cross eyed

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D Zaire fight is d biggest scam in d history of d sport that i know of .
It's completely irrelevant in regards 2 both of 4man's and Ali's legacies .
i might post a thread about it in d future but u should have known by now .
ppl just don't get d role of d loosened ropes in it .
And then it did not even end with d ropes , d heat , d crooked referee who let Ali hold behind 4man's head , 4man was possibly drugged by Dick Saddler whom was 1 of his trainers , 4man was dehydrated prior 2d fight , everything and more was against him in that fight , and no rematch also 4 a reason .

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.

*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.

*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.

Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...

bring it on... im ready for all comers!

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Saw this last night and all I can say is YHG2BFKM. Vitali would not even rule Marciano's era.

Never done this before, but you type like a retard so you're on ignore.

No hard feelings, I find your opinions inconsequential and inoffensive... But you form sentences like a 10 year old writes a txt message, which hurts my head to read.

People might actually take your insane and illogical posts seriously if typing 'the' and 'fore'man didn't appear to be so taxing for you.

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Originally Posted by captainanddew

this is the dumbest thread in history. the original poster needs to get a CT scan done on his brain immediately. he is only one step above drooling in an uncontrollable fashion.

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*wow..just when i think i'm posting with Knowledgeable guys... i read this..or Vitali couldnt rule Marciano's era... etc,etc... r u kidding me? Vitali and Wlad have litterally ruled for 10 years or so... they beat undefeated prospects like a pro beats a novice fighter. Vitali has never..NEVER been behind in a fight! Can u imagine what Vitali would do to Marciano? Marciano weighed 185 pounds in his prime... Vitali would knock him into another dimension, Vitali vs a 185 fighter...PLEASE, now who 's posting insane?. Ali did a rope a dope on a lumbering neanderthal in George Forman..oh yea, Big George... "Big George",in his prime,would come into a fight with Vitali 25 pounds lighter... these guys r just too big.
The only guy to give Vitali a match was Lennox... Lennox had been training for a fight and was very interested..u guys r too smart to believe Lennox was untrained. U know what happened to an untrained ,uninterested Lennox lewis?... he gets KO'ed like he did in his only two previous loses... Lennox gave everything he had... and Vitali kept coming. If Lennox was soooo uninterested, why not a rematch? Lennox fears Vitali soooo much, he never found his way to a ring again after his fight with Vitali. THAT'S RESPECT.
I bring up Ivan Drago of the Rocky movie cuz Drago is supposed to be the unimaginable... he's the ultimate killing machine... he's big tall and has air... remind u of someone? the only thing different is Vitali is bigger and stronger.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

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Originally Posted by captainanddew

this is the dumbest thread in history. the original poster needs to get a CT scan done on his brain immediately. he is only one step above drooling in an uncontrollable fashion.

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*wow..just when i think i'm posting with Knowledgeable guys... i read this..or Vitali couldnt rule Marciano's era... etc,etc... r u kidding me? Vitali and Wlad have litterally ruled for 10 years or so... they beat undefeated prospects like a pro beats a novice fighter. Vitali has never..NEVER been behind in a fight! Can u imagine what Vitali would do to Marciano? Marciano weighed 185 pounds in his prime... Vitali would knock him into another dimension, Vitali vs a 185 fighter...PLEASE, now who 's posting insane?. Ali did a rope a dope on a lumbering neanderthal in George Forman..oh yea, Big George... "Big George",in his prime,would come into a fight with Vitali 25 pounds lighter... these guys r just too big.
The only guy to give Vitali a match was Lennox... Lennox had been training for a fight and was very interested..u guys r too smart to believe Lennox was untrained. U know what happened to an untrained ,uninterested Lennox lewis?... he gets KO'ed like he did in his only two previous loses... Lennox gave everything he had... and Vitali kept coming. If Lennox was soooo uninterested, why not a rematch? Lennox fears Vitali soooo much, he never found his way to a ring again after his fight with Vitali. THAT'S RESPECT.
I bring up Ivan Drago of the Rocky movie cuz Drago is supposed to be the unimaginable... he's the ultimate killing machine... he's big tall and has air... remind u of someone? the only thing different is Vitali is bigger and stronger.

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How do you know Vitali is stronger than Drago?
Drago was scoring some very high scores on that hi-tech machine.

I try not to get involved in greatest HW of all time discussion.

There's no possible way to decide. Klitschko has been great in his era but his massive size advantage has helped.

Ali was great, Frazier was great, 4man ;) was great. It's all like formula 1 to me. Give all the teams the same engine, budget etc and leave it to the teams to find an advantage and let the drivers race. The most skilled would win. Completely different sports I know but the fact I'm making is If Klitschko was was Ali's size would he beat him? doubt it.

Smaller men will of course overcome bigger guys sometimes, it has to happen it's just the way it goes but many of Klitschkos opponents just haven't been able to reach him, if Klitschkos opponents were the same size as them I'm sure they would have tasted defeat more than they have.

Ok people, my take on this : I don't consider Vitali as the best ever, but I am confident that he could hold his own against most best HWY's . I think Ali , Holmes ,Prime Lewis, would have a tough time against him, but would come out victorious . This is of course asuming Vitali is in his prime also. I think Vitali would beat Fraizer, Foreman ,Tyson, Holyfield , Marciano, Louis, Dempsey, and many other great HWY's . Too bad he fights in an era that there are no fighters that can really challenge him, and his brother

I pretty much agree, except about Lewis. Lewis wasn't even close to his prime or even in shape against Vitali and 'tough time' was the best vitali walked away with then.

In his Prime Lewis would have only found it less tough.

Edit: oh and I think COULD beat Tyson/Holyfield etc might be more fitting.

WOULD could only be said if he could be measured against better fighters... and he can't.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.

*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.

*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.

Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...

bring it on... im ready for all comers!

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Red writing is a shit to read.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.

*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.

*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.

Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...

bring it on... im ready for all comers!

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Red writing is a shit to read.

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That particular piece is shit to read irrespective of the colour.

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.

*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.

*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.

Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...

bring it on... im ready for all comers!

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I think taking punches that detroy your face and need the fight to be stopped for your safety constituties 'being behind in a fight'

Lewis TK06 - Fact

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Vitali would not even rule Marciano's era.

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No adamek, hopkins and haye would.

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Originally Posted by roberto duran legend

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .

I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .

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Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.:rolleyes:

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No he's better than both of them yet still the 2nd best in his family.

Mcall SD loss to norris
Mcall UD loss to gomez.

Klitschko KO 1 norris.
Klitschko TKO 9 gomez.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by roberto duran legend

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .

I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .

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Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.:rolleyes:

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No he's better than both of them yet still the 2nd best in his family.

Mcall SD loss to norris
Mcall UD loss to gomez.

Klitschko KO 1 norris.
Klitschko TKO 9 gomez.

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We need to talk about appollo creed as well. Why wasnt he mentioned?

Alot of people love to bring up vitali achievements against an old fat lennox lewis and still lost!

Takeaway lennox lewis from vitalis history what other fight makes him the best heavyweight..?

Vitali has a great chin and terminator t-800 fighting style but please stop basing his greatness on his LOSS to mr.Lewis.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

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Originally Posted by roberto duran legend

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .

I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .

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Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.:rolleyes:

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No he's better than both of them yet still the 2nd best in his family.

Mcall SD loss to norris
Mcall UD loss to gomez.

Klitschko KO 1 norris.
Klitschko TKO 9 gomez.

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old Lewis TKO6 prime Vitali

McCall TKO2 prime Lewis


Sanders TKO2 Wladimir
Puritty TKO11 Wladimir


Vitali TKO8 Sanders
Vitali TKO11 Puritty

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Alot of people love to bring up vitali achievements against an old fat lennox lewis and still lost!

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Let me just destroy you...

36 yo Lennox Lewis, 5 lbs overweight on a SHW frame, who was 6 months removed from his greatest win. He was training for a superHW, Kirki Johnson, whose huge frame and hugtactics often smothered his opponents.

11 days b4 the fight with Johnson, Vitali was called to take the fight. Lewis saw Vitali as a tall, robotic, THIN, fighter whom he could push around the ring with ease, and decided NOT to drop the 5 extra lbs.

Lewis' cornrows, combined with his thumbing and his lace scraping opened up several vaginas on Vitali's face that night. While Vitali was dominating Lewis in the fight, Lennox, knew to focus on those vaginas and he could narrowly escape with his title.

He was not OLD. He was not shot. He was NOT faded. He was NOT fat. He was 36/37, and coming off his finest performance. Some would call that prime. Nobody, except the minority K2 fans, expected Lewis to have ANY trouble with Vitali.

H2H, and AT, Vitali=/<Lewis

Sadly, Lewis chose to leave boxing at 37 with his tail between his legs, but while he was fighting he fought the best, and only ducked 1 fighter, Corrie Sanders. Sadly Vitali quit vs Byrd when he could have single handedly earned a UD. Even sadder, his doctors misdiagnosed his L5/S1 protrusion causing his sciatica, and mistakenly called it a hamstring injury, causing 2 delays of his Rahman fight, and eventual retirement.

Time went on and the division was fine w/o him. Wlad regained his confidence and beat all comers, while Vitali entered the political arena. After 4 years absent from fighting, Vitali came back into the ring to destroy 250lb WBC champ sam peter, and has barely lost a round since!

We are witnessing history being made. Sit back and enjoy, because in 100 yrs our great great chandchildren will be talking about the brothers Klitschko and how boxing will never see such domination again.

Futhermore, Lewis literally threw himself backward onto his stool, looking an almost spent fighter, it seemed poised for a 7th round of enormous significance, and then, suddenly, it was over, as the doctor ruled Vitali unfit to continue. There was some confusion for a time as to whom the winner was, the referee had held Lewis' arm up, but there appeared to be some debate as to whether the initial cut, which had ultimately resulted in the stoppage were caused by a butt, or a punch.

Had the cut been ruled the result of a butt, the fight would have gone to the scorecards, and Vitali, who was two points ahead on all 3 cards, would have been the new lineal heavyweight champion of the world. As it was, it was deemed to have been the result of a punch, and Lewis retained his title.

To clear up any possible controversy, it was to my mind a perfectly reasonable and necessary stoppage because it could have interfered with his career and vitali went onto become a great champion. Let me also add that lewis at the time was looking at fighting for another 2 years at least just before the klitschko fight (I have the extract if you want it? He was believe it or not chasing a potential fight with roy jones!) The WBC then put lewis on the spot and announced that it will strip him of the belt if he lets pass a March 15 deadline to sign for a rematch with Klitschko, the mandatory contender. He chose to reire. Owned. Lewis also relinquished his IBF belt rather than fight SOUTHPAW (lewis never fought southpaws) chris byrd too...a natural fight to make around the early 00's! Lenny was a clever man.....He probably capitalised on bowes implosion, waited for holy/tyson to age and ran out of the klitschko era quicker than an ostrich!!

@THE PHILOSOPHER - You're leaving out some key points of this story. Vitali had a huge advantage in that fight. This is why...

Lewis was already considering retirement, he hadn't fought in a year, and the original bill was a Tyson/Lewis doubleheader to set up a possible rematch. Tyson pulled out so Vitali was put on the bill against Cedric Boswell. The bill went from HBO PPV to regular TV. Then Johnson pulled out which meant Lewis would have lost a shit load of money for a bill he wasn't just headlining but part promoting. So Lewis offered Vitali the chance to save the bill. Vitali's reputation was poor in the States because of his "quit" against Byrd.

Vitali had NOTHING to lose!!!

He got a chance to redeem himself and become THE man. Lewis had ZERO to gain.

In the end - Lewis won fair and square and Vitali's reputation was restored/boosted. And that's all she wrote.

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Lewis was already considering retirement,

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Here are the exact quotes from Lewis and Steward from 2003:

Jones, the WBA champion, now seems to be Lewis’s long-term target. “We’ll just keep fighting guys until the big fight with Roy Jones comes up and I think it will happen eventually,” Emanuel Steward, Lewis’s trainer, said.

Oh dear....

Lewis: Weight 250 +
height 6′ 5″
reach 84″

Jones: Weight 199
height 5′ 11″
reach 74″

lol.

And 11 days notice is hardly a fitting amount of time for unranked vitali to prepare for lewis, boswell is not lewis!!

@THE PHILOSOPHER

Not sure what relevance you think that Manny Steward quote has? Roy Jones was a possible big money fight although serious negotiations never happened (even Roy said Lennox was too big for him after beating Ruiz). It was in Steward's best interests that Lewis continued (huge paydays).

Here are quotes from Lewis on retirement in 2003 - Speculation has been mounting over the last six months that Lewis will retire from the sport altogether rather than step back into the ring. "Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training," said Lewis. "It has to get me excited. At this point I'm not excited by anyone."

Here's a quote from Steward in 2003 after Lewis made the Johnson fight - "Lennox can only lose through complacency, he can go on until 40, he will KO Johnson, Vitali, Roy Jones"

Lewis had 11 days to prepare for Vitali, Kirk Johnson was certainly not Vitali. They were in the same boat except Lewis no longer had a serious desire to fight whereas Vitali had everything to gain.

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Originally Posted by roberto duran legend

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .

I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .

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Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.:rolleyes:

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Ali beat a 6'6" critter with a clutch and grab style like that of Wladmir's named Ernie Terrell whom Ali played with. A young Ali would move in and out against slow moving Frankenstein like Vitali and get a decision I think. But that's only my opinion and I may be wrong.

Having Valuev as the greatest is Franken Frank having a laugh. You are fun.

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Originally Posted by Jody Lane

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Originally Posted by roberto duran legend

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .

I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .

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Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.:rolleyes:

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Ali beat a 6'6" critter with a clutch and grab style like that of Wladmir's named Ernie Terrell whom Ali played with. A young Ali would move in and out against slow moving Frankenstein like Vitali and get a decision I think. But that's only my opinion and I may be wrong.

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If you watch Ali Vs Norton you'll see the real reason Ali lost was due to a game plan. I suppose if Ali a glaring weakness, it is that he did not like to come forward. He almost needs you to come to him so he can dance around you. That is precisely what Norton did NOT do.

Considering that with the fact that Vitali is taller and when he was younger he did throw a bit faster than he does not (no he is not nearly as fast as Ali) and the fact he has exceptional timing, you can argue with some confidence that the same result with ensue. He dodges punches pulling backward somewhat like RJJ though being a big tall heavyweight he can't do it with the quicksilver liquidity of Jones...

I've read and heard many times that Vitali is slow moving like someone fighting underwater, well If you watch the great Joe Louis and his exceptional footwork you'll see that he too was very deliberate and slow moving. Vitali moves slow but he controls the ring with very little movement. No wasted energy. Almost like a guitar player in the regards that you want to use the least amount of energy to get the result you want.

Long story short, at the end of the day it is all subjective. If Vitali would time travel and beat Ali 10 times out of time would it mean he's the best of all time or that he has the game plan and the style to beat Ali like Norton did, who knows...I don't.

I'll say this much with certainty. He is far better than his younger brother due to three attributes that his brother lacks or lacks in comparison; his chin, his stamina, and his timing. I dare say because of the very last one he is perhaps truly deserving of the title of one of the greatest.

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Originally Posted by Master

Having Valuev as the greatest is Franken Frank having a laugh. You are fun.

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my criteria is h2h , not resume .
had it been resume , Marion Wilson would have made my top 10 4 sure , and Valuev would have indeed gone out . Lewis' resume is not as impressing as much as ppl think either , BTW .
old & shot Evander , shot Tyson on anti depressants without enough warm up fights , McCall fresh out of rehab institute with withdrawal symptoms from crack , shot Ruddock , old , shot and never really good Mike Weaver , and d list goes on .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.

*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.

*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.

Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...

bring it on... im ready for all comers!

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I'm really glad you didn't change your username to bigstinkymuff. Your post gets the seal of approval 'futissima'. ;D

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Some fair points , but you are also saying Vitali could beat film actor Dolph Lundgrin who played the fictional Ivan Drago ?

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haha DLA I was thınkıng the same thıng--- Dolph would smoke hım ın 6.

i will probably have a bad english but you will understand me

first to begin with is todays boxing era, everyone thinks todays era is bad only because us media does not support it any more (since its moved to germany) and ofcourse, todays heavyweight are more or less slower than the ones from 70' and 80'... well its mostly because today average heavyweights are 20-40 kg heavier than the ones from 70', and to add, they have incomparably stronger punches, and can sustain damage that is unimaginable to boxers in 70'. so actually todays era is strongest era of all time, if we are speaking in reality and not like usa media, for them 70' are religion, and because of today there is no good black usa boxer in heavyweight they talk shit of todays era and switching an eye to UFC to big steroid guys that know shit about mma and just trowing punches hopefully to hit something, and everyone actually wanna just sit and eat popcornts and watch that amateur slaughering, they dont wanna see good boxing match like vitali - chisora.. usa media is still pumping mohammad ali like a god of boxing, but if he fought today he would probably be in light heavyweight or cruiserweight B-class boxer and noone would know about him.
lets now compare...
ali vs vitali
vitali was never knocked down or even dazed in a ring and he fought best punchers of all time (shannon briggs, lennox, peter samuel, everyone of them is 113-125 kg and have punches no boxer from 70' would sustain). on the other hand Ali was down with one punch against 75 kg henry cooper... i think that speaks all but lets continue... ali was powerpuff puncher he didnt even had 30% of KO's and he fought guys who would today looked like kids in ring, vitali has 90% KO biggest in history and he fought guys who had chin like hammer, ali cant actually hurt vitali... now lets go on boxing technique, there is two ali's; clasus clay and mohammad, clasus slay would hit once or twice from distance and then run away and do shuffeling, and win on points because he was pretty tall in 70' (1.91 cm) but he could not do that to vitali since he is 200, 202 cm in prime. and then mohamad ali, when he got heavier (not more 92 kg, now is probabl 97 kg woaaaa) he couldn move like butterfly anymore and was gassing out, so there is new thing... rope a dope, well he did win foreman on that but lets see, foremans technique is equal to 0 in that fight, it was like watching kid fighting, on the other hand would he sustained punches from vitali on ropes? i think not, and still, vitali can do ali's rope a dope in the middle of the ring without ropes. so mohammad ali has no reall chance against vitali.
vitali is too multidimensional fighter for anyone, in ring he has answer on everything, many tell that he is like wladimir, but vitali and wladimir are like moon and sun, only thing they have in common is that great body, and wladimir has no chin and cardio like vitali, vitali is 41 years old and has same tempo of punching throu 12 rounds, wladimir is too onedimensional, always doing the same thing and vitali on the other hand fights like cowboy, you never know what to expect and his arsenal of punches is much bigger than wladimirs... there will never be better boxer than vitali, no one ever dominated him and never will. vitali > tyson, lennox, briggs, hollyfield and especially >>>>>70' and the one who said lennox was better in fight has not seen the fight, even lennox trainer said vitali is the better of two and later switched to vitalis team, lennox is too afraid of vitali that he rather retired than gaved him a remach. tell me witch fighter you wanna compare, and i will give you best comparison, from career, technique, psihique and etc...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.

*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.

*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.

Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...

bring it on... im ready for all comers!

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Does this look like the face of the winner?

http://i.minus.com/iRSmqc0jv2DBV.GIF

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

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Vitali couldnt even last in to the 7th with Lewis!;D

Even the old tired version of Tyson who wasnt training lasted 2 rounds longer;D:rolleyes: