Why do Hopkins, Ward, and Mayweather refuse to fight overseas?

Ricky Hatton came to the US to fight Floyd Mayweather, even though the fight would have filled a stadium in England.

Joe Calzaghe had to go to the US to fight Bernard Hopkins, even though the fight would have attracted far more fans in Wales.

Mikkel Kessler had to go to Oakland to fight Andre Ward, even though Mikkel was the titleholder and the fight would have filled a stadium in Denmark.

When some people in the US complain about protected UK and mainland European boxers, it seems to me like a double standard. What about these pampered American fighters who demand home advantage for every fight against a decent opponent?

Because they arnt real champions! Real champions and legends go abroad and fight the best in there home countries and lose!
That's what a champ does.

Because most of these fights will sell far more ppvs in the U.S than they would in the U.K. It's all about making the most money and money is made via PPV's, not by "filling out a stadium"..Also the U.S charge $60+ for ppv's..we charge £15+

Fights always make more financial sense in the U.S.

Andre Ward worked with Victor Conte. For all Sauerland events, Olympic style drug testing is required. Did that have something to do with why Ward refused to fight Kessler and Abraham in Europe?

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Because most of these fights will sell far more ppvs in the U.S than they would in the U.K. It's all about making the most money and money is made via PPV's, not by "filling out a stadium"..Also the U.S charge $60+ for ppv's..we charge £15+

Fights always make more financial sense in the U.S.

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I see. That's why Ali fought Frazier in Manila, and fought Foreman in Africa.

Ward-Kessler was not PPV in the US, neither was Ward-Abraham.

And PPV's don't necessarily make the most money. Wladimir Klitschko makes more money than any American boxer except for Mayweather.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Because most of these fights will sell far more ppvs in the U.S than they would in the U.K. It's all about making the most money and money is made via PPV's, not by "filling out a stadium"..Also the U.S charge $60+ for ppv's..we charge £15+

Fights always make more financial sense in the U.S.

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I see. That's why Ali fought Frazier in Manila, and fought Foreman in Africa.

Ward-Kessler was not PPV in the US, neither was Ward-Abraham.

And PPV's don't necessarily make the most money. Wladimir Klitschko makes more money than any American boxer except for Mayweather.

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but most of Wlad's fights are also on PPV and the Klitschko's are like Gods in Germany due to their association with Schmeling

Why should they fight overseas? Though Ward is a pansy and should leave his hometown. I hope Dawson mutilates him.

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

but most of Wlad's fights are also on PPV and the Klitschko's are like Gods in Germany due to their association with Schmeling

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Wlad's fights are not on PPV (except the Haye fight was PPV in the UK).

His popularity in Germany is based on his being the heavyweight champion of the world, more than any association with Schmeling - he surpassed Max's achievements long ago.

His fights are watched by more people on IHTEP in Ukraine than on RTL Germany, as well as by millions more in Russia, Romania, Poland, etc.

Irrespective of PPV, promoters want the maximum exposure for their fighters in the US, and will respect the desires of the American networks. The American networks want prime time boxing for maximum advertising revenue.
This is why, in spite of being held in England, previous big fights have taken place in the small hours of the morning.
This is why the US won't televise Wlad's fights. the cost is high, and the ratings are poor in the mid afternoon.
Wlad may well be making good money, but he's the poorest paid undisputed champ in thirty years.

When you're a big name and you have the bigger end of the stick like a Mayweather or Hopkins, you really don't need to go overseas. Why would you?

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Originally Posted by Freedom

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

but most of Wlad's fights are also on PPV and the Klitschko's are like Gods in Germany due to their association with Schmeling

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Wlad's fights are not on PPV (except the Haye fight was PPV in the UK).

His popularity in Germany is based on his being the heavyweight champion of the world, more than any association with Schmeling - he surpassed Max's achievements long ago.

His fights are watched by more people on IHTEP in Ukraine than on RTL Germany, as well as by millions more in Russia, Romania, Poland, etc.

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the Klitschko's popularity in Germany came long before either held a world title, and although both have accomplished more than Max, he's still the ICON over there due to his win over Louis, just sayin

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I see. That's why Ali fought Frazier in Manila, and fought Foreman in Africa.

Ward-Kessler was not PPV in the US, neither was Ward-Abraham.

And PPV's don't necessarily make the most money. Wladimir Klitschko makes more money than any American boxer except for Mayweather.

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You're talking about fights that happened in the 70s, man.

I didn't read a single word anyone posted on this thread. My first reaction is to say, they don't have to because there is plenty of money to be made in the USA. They are also thinking about the home field advantage, the importance of which can't be denied and the potential impartiality of foreign judges. The number one reason, I'm my opinion, is that they don't have to. I don't like the idea of staying at home, yes the fans in the USA have a better chance to see a fight in person, but it adds to the argument they are being protected. After a fighter reachs the top, every third fight should be on foreign soil. In the end, it's all about money, protecting what you already have and making more.

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

I didn't read a single word anyone posted on this thread. My first reaction is to say, they don't have to because there is plenty of money to be made in the USA. They are also thinking about the home field advantage, the importance of which can't be denied and the potential impartiality of foreign judges. The number one reason, I'm my opinion, is that they don't have to. I don't like the idea of staying at home, yes the fans in the USA have a better chance to see a fight in person, but it adds to the argument they are being protected. After a fighter reachs the top, every third fight should be on foreign soil. In the end, it's all about money, protecting what you already have and making more.

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What I object to is the American fans complaining over the years about Hatton, Dariusz, Calzaghe, Cleverly, Ottke, Sturm and others fighting in their home countries, when Ward, Mayweather and Hopkins and other Americans refuse to fight overseas.

why travel to fight if you don't have to? you end up in less than perfect conditions, jetlagged, eating food you're not familiar with, being led around places you don't know, possibly getting screwed by people you don't know. why not stay at home where you can control most of these intangibles?!

save traveling for vacations... so if you end up with diarrhea it doesn't cost you your title.

and yes your foreign opponents have to deal with the same risks coming to america...but thats the benefit to being top dog. you call the shots.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

I didn't read a single word anyone posted on this thread. My first reaction is to say, they don't have to because there is plenty of money to be made in the USA. They are also thinking about the home field advantage, the importance of which can't be denied and the potential impartiality of foreign judges. The number one reason, I'm my opinion, is that they don't have to. I don't like the idea of staying at home, yes the fans in the USA have a better chance to see a fight in person, but it adds to the argument they are being protected. After a fighter reachs the top, every third fight should be on foreign soil. In the end, it's all about money, protecting what you already have and making more.

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What I object to is the American fans complaining over the years about Hatton, Dariusz, Calzaghe, Cleverly, Ottke, Sturm and others fighting in their home countries, when Ward, Mayweather and Hopkins and other Americans refuse to fight overseas.

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It's about who you fight, not where. Hopkins and Mayweather have glittering resumes without traveling, Sturm, Calzaghe, Dariusz and Ottke's resumes suffer from not fighting stateside.
The brothers K don't get accused of being stay at home fighters because wherever they have fought, they have cleaned out a division. The whole stay at home thing is used when there are fighters that have been avoided.

I think it's as simple as being the top dog. Guys seek exposure and when your on top you set some terms. I don't lump Ward in that Hopkins or Mayweather class yet, chalk it up to top promotion, who knows. Hopkins traveled on three days to get his first trinket and found himself in the toughest fight of his career to that point.

Look at a Roy Jones jr who at top dictated terms and could-should have traveled out to meet bigger legit threats but would have none of it, didn't 'need' but honestly cannot say 'he fought the best'. Now that he's blown to bits and grasping at shadows he cannot board a plane for BF Siberia fast enough.

Quick pop-quiz for the genius who started this thread:

In what country did Bernard Hopkins fight his two most-recent fights?

(Hint: not the U.S.)

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Originally Posted by shza

Quick pop-quiz for the genius who started this thread:

In what country did Bernard Hopkins fight his two most-recent fights?

(Hint: not the U.S.)

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actually... his last two fights were in the usa... but the previous two were in quebec.

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Originally Posted by shza

Quick pop-quiz for the genius who started this thread:

In what country did Bernard Hopkins fight his two most-recent fights?

(Hint: not the U.S.)

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In the USA.

Quick pop-quiz for the genius "shza" - what does "overseas" mean?

There are different reasons why fighters fight abroad, Ricky Hatton had conquered the UK and became the legitimate world champion here. However in order to break into the US market he has to fight over there. To maximise his money.

Joe wanted to fight in MSG which is a dream come true for most fighters or Las Vegas.

Ward can dictate where he fights, so he will choose where he is comfortable, the same with Floyd because it allows him to use injections in his hands.

The Klitscko are earning sufficient money and have more than enough popularity to not worry about breaking the US market.

Steve Cunningham basically had to fight in Europe to earn a living as he was not appreciated in the US.

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Because they arnt real champions! Real champions and legends go abroad and fight the best in there home countries and lose!
That's what a champ does.

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The Lineal supermiddle weight champ Ward, and of course the HoFer Mayweather and Hopkins aren't real champions?

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Originally Posted by DavilaJones

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Because they arnt real champions! Real champions and legends go abroad and fight the best in there home countries and lose!
That's what a champ does.

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The Lineal supermiddle weight champ Ward, and of course the HoFer Mayweather and Hopkins aren't real champions?

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Exactly. Real champions like Tommy Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard travelled around the world defending their titles...

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Originally Posted by Althugz

Because most of these fights will sell far more ppvs in the U.S than they would in the U.K. It's all about making the most money and money is made via PPV's, not by "filling out a stadium"..Also the U.S charge $60+ for ppv's..we charge £15+

Fights always make more financial sense in the U.S.

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That is simply not true.

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Originally Posted by Bobthepen

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Originally Posted by DavilaJones

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Because they arnt real champions! Real champions and legends go abroad and fight the best in there home countries and lose!
That's what a champ does.

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The Lineal supermiddle weight champ Ward, and of course the HoFer Mayweather and Hopkins aren't real champions?

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Exactly. Real champions like Tommy Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard travelled around the world defending their titles...

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Ward most definitely and even Mayweathers legacy will be compromised if he never fights out of the USA. Las Vegas was not always boxing's Mecca and the added kudos and fame aquired by travelling and fighting abroad, secures legacies and makes superstars. To non boxing fans FMJ is not a superstar and never will be. That is something he could rectify but probably never will. In the long run the echoes of his fame will diminish more quickly because of it.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by Bobthepen

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Originally Posted by DavilaJones

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Because they arnt real champions! Real champions and legends go abroad and fight the best in there home countries and lose!
That's what a champ does.

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The Lineal supermiddle weight champ Ward, and of course the HoFer Mayweather and Hopkins aren't real champions?

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Exactly. Real champions like Tommy Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard travelled around the world defending their titles...

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Ward most definitely and even Mayweathers legacy will be compromised if he never fights out of the USA. Las Vegas was not always boxing's Mecca and the added kudos and fame aquired by travelling and fighting abroad, secures legacies and makes superstars. To non boxing fans FMJ is not a superstar and never will be. That is something he could rectify but probably never will. In the long run the echoes of his fame will diminish more quickly because of it.

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Disagree. Floyd is the highest paid sportsman in the world, and is a superstar in the US. I doubt he gives a flying fuck what people outside the US think of him, because he never goes anywhere. He is certainly more famous than any current basketball player or baseball star, and they don't worry about it.
We live in a world of global media, and Floyd will be discussed for generations.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

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Originally Posted by shza

Quick pop-quiz for the genius who started this thread:

In what country did Bernard Hopkins fight his two most-recent fights?

(Hint: not the U.S.)

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In the USA.

Quick pop-quiz for the genius "shza" - what does "overseas" mean?

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Beanz wheres your post of the week thread? This is it. ;D

Mayweather is currently the highest earning sportsman in the world let alone boxer. And that is 100% down to PPV (Pac is the second highest earner).

AS for Hopkins and Ward that's entirely different. They are small fry in the States let alone the rest of the world.

On a personal level it doesn't really matter to me if a fighter travels overseas or not. What matters to me is if he is fighting quality opposition and winning. Now if a fighter keeps getting gift hometown decisions then of course I would give your point merit and it does have merit for many of these title holders (I'm trying a new thing, refusing to call anyone but a lineal champ, a champion.)

Allow me to ask you this though, would Mayweather's win over Cotto have been any different if he would have fought him in Japan or South Africa? Or Hopkins victory over De La Hoya if they were to fight in Spain?

I understand on a deeper level the fact that if a champion travels the world he is in effect seeking out challenges but if the challenge always comes to him, wouldn't you're point be valid merely on semantics rather than the spirit of your argument?

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Originally Posted by Freedom

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Originally Posted by shza

Quick pop-quiz for the genius who started this thread:

In what country did Bernard Hopkins fight his two most-recent fights?

(Hint: not the U.S.)

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In the USA.

Quick pop-quiz for the genius "shza" - what does "overseas" mean?

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Sorry, it was the two fights before those that were in Canada. If you were actually using "overseas" literally, rather than just to mean "in a foreign country that is the home country of your opponent," you'll have to explain why that distinction makes any difference whatsoever to the point you're trying to make.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

Ricky Hatton came to the US to fight Floyd Mayweather, even though the fight would have filled a stadium in England.

Joe Calzaghe had to go to the US to fight Bernard Hopkins, even though the fight would have attracted far more fans in Wales.

Mikkel Kessler had to go to Oakland to fight Andre Ward, even though Mikkel was the titleholder and the fight would have filled a stadium in Denmark.

When some people in the US complain about protected UK and mainland European boxers, it seems to me like a double standard. What about these pampered American fighters who demand home advantage for every fight against a decent opponent?

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I blame PPV and HBO like monopolies. Floyd could fight in the local gym and pull in 10 mil. And lets face it, it's all about the money. I think it all started with Leonard. I mean I watched Arguello/Pryor on Wild World of Sports. Jones never went to the Uk to fight Eubanks, Collins or Benn. They never agreed to come to this continent either.

Almost everyone agrees that things are not equal the way they are. There is so much money, national pride, stubbornness, greed and so many egos involved I doubt we'll ever see this puzzle solved. It's a shame, money talks and everyone listens.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by Bobthepen

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Originally Posted by DavilaJones

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Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Because they arnt real champions! Real champions and legends go abroad and fight the best in there home countries and lose!
That's what a champ does.

---

The Lineal supermiddle weight champ Ward, and of course the HoFer Mayweather and Hopkins aren't real champions?

---

Exactly. Real champions like Tommy Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard travelled around the world defending their titles...

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Ward most definitely and even Mayweathers legacy will be compromised if he never fights out of the USA. Las Vegas was not always boxing's Mecca and the added kudos and fame aquired by travelling and fighting abroad, secures legacies and makes superstars. To non boxing fans FMJ is not a superstar and never will be. That is something he could rectify but probably never will. In the long run the echoes of his fame will diminish more quickly because of it.

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I love you lots and lots like Jelly Tots, Beanz but that is utter nonsense. After the Hatton fight, almost everybody at the gym I worked at knew who he was, boxing fan or not. He won't have as big an impact as Ali globally (obviously) but he is THE boxing superstar of our generation.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I see. That's why Ali fought Frazier in Manila, and fought Foreman in Africa.

Ward-Kessler was not PPV in the US, neither was Ward-Abraham.

And PPV's don't necessarily make the most money. Wladimir Klitschko makes more money than any American boxer except for Mayweather.

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You're talking about fights that happened in the 70s, man.

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Lol exactly - and furthermore what difference does it make to your point, Freedom, that two Americans fought each other in Africa or the Phillipines?? ???