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So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Boxing popularity in the U.S. (among the casual fans) has always been tied to the existence of a native son among the sport's elite. Back in the days of Ali, Holmes, and Tyson... Americans enjoyed their "days in the sun" in the HW division. And when De La Hoya was around, his crossover appeal seemed to fill some of that void for U.S. fans. But Mosley's gone... and not everyone is a fan of Floyd Jr. A quick rundown of the divisions illustrates the present void in U.S. "stardom":
Heavyweight: There are no American heavyweights in the picture worth mentioning. Some prospects, maybe... but no one to challenge the Klitschkos.
Light Heavy: Chad Dawson's stock dropped through the floor with his TKO loss to Andre Ward. Hopkins is ancient, and probably close to retiring. Even when he was active, he was hardly "fan-friendly" for many U.S. fans.
Super Middle: Andre Ward would be the closest thing to the "next great hope"... but he's hardly a household name. Maybe the weight division has something to do with it. Kelly Pavlik WAS going to be the "next great hope".... but his battles with the bottle basically put an end to all that. Jermaine Taylor had the humble personality that people like.... but he turned out to be a lesser fighter than we thought.
Welterweight: Floyd Mayweather may be # 1 p4p in many people's eyes... but again, is hardly "fan-friendly" for many U.S. fans. Tim Bradley is a hard, dedicated worker... but he's not "next great hope" material. And whatever happened to Andre Berto?
Light Welter: Lamont Peterson's stock also dropped through the floor after his banned substance issues.
Super Feather: Adrien Broner is super talented, but just another undisciplined, disrespectful punk. Hardly fits the mold of a "next great hope". Besides, his issues with weight have angered many potential fans.
Featherweight and below: No notables to speak of.
So.... who's the next Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar de la Hoya, or Larry Holmes in the American boxing landscape? (If I inadvertently missed anyone, please let me know).
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Good post man
Personally I think once mayweather is gone the Americans won't have any pound for pound stars
The closest will Definatly be ward
Broner gets beat from our man burns every time
Burns is the man
But yeah ward probably unless froch beats him next
Or maybe groves :)
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
You'd hope that someone would come through. As I said... it's kind of a chain reaction of sorts. The presence of a new superstar in U.S. boxing would bring the casual fans back to the sport. Two things would help: 1) preferably in a "major" weight division, such as welterweight, middleweight, or heavyweight. And 2) although it has nothing to do with boxing, it would help if the fighter was a least a bit humble, and could stay out of jail as much as possible. You might add not being caught with PEDs, and not having recurring weight issues.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Garry Russel Jr is pretty damn good. I like the guy and he is pretty talented.
Andre Ward is charming and all he really needs to make it big is a big PR push because in terms of legibility, he has it.
Asides those two I don't see anyone else and the reason really is America's piss poor amateur system. Compared to college football/baseball/basketball amateur boxing in US is shit. So when you hear a guy is a golden glove champion it doesn't mean as much as it used to way back in the day. So when an Eastern European boxer takes him to school no one should be shocked. Same thing can of course be said of Cuban boxers and their very deep amateur talent pool.
Long story short if America really wants to have big named boxers rather than being the best platform for boxing it needs to invest into its amateur program.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Good points all. But consider the following: A country like Mexico does not have a world-class amateur program, but is very successful in the pro ranks. Over here in Puerto Rico, we go through the same cycle every Olympics. We have several, very young, excellent prospects. But because they're young and comparatively inexperienced, we rarely medal. Then, for the next Games... these fighters have already turned pro... and we're back to a new crop of young, inexperienced prospects. Puerto Rico also has a great history in the pro ranks.
By contrast, you have some European countries who excel in the amateurs, and rake up the Olympic medals. Why? Because their boxers stay amateur into their 30's. And they become experts at the Olympic style of boxing, which rewards contact frequency rather than punch effectiveness. But these same countries then have few world champions in the pro ranks.
Apparently you can't have your cake and eat it too. I think it's a bit more complicated than just overhauling the amateur program.
Although on the other hand, and in favor of the point you make..... if you invest heavily in the amateur program.... just by the sheer increase in numbers (of boxers).... the probability of "the next great hope" emerging would certainly go up.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Boxing popularity in the U.S. (among the casual fans) has always been tied to the existence of a native son among the sport's elite. Back in the days of Ali, Holmes, and Tyson... Americans enjoyed their "days in the sun" in the HW division. And when De La Hoya was around, his crossover appeal seemed to fill some of that void for U.S. fans. But Mosley's gone... and not everyone is a fan of Floyd Jr. A quick rundown of the divisions illustrates the present void in U.S. "stardom":
In fairness my friend that is probably true for any country.
Heavyweight: There are no American heavyweights in the picture worth mentioning. Some prospects, maybe... but no one to challenge the Klitschkos.
This division is pathetic and has been for years. This also applies to anywhere else in the world brother. Btw I thought Juan Carlos was going to own the division.
Light Heavy: Chad Dawson's stock dropped through the floor with his TKO loss to Andre Ward. Hopkins is ancient, and probably close to retiring. Even when he was active, he was hardly "fan-friendly" for many U.S. fans.
Another stale division. Cruiser is more exiting.
Super Middle: Andre Ward would be the closest thing to the "next great hope"... but he's hardly a household name. Maybe the weight division has something to do with it. Kelly Pavlik WAS going to be the "next great hope".... but his battles with the bottle basically put an end to all that. Jermaine Taylor had the humble personality that people like.... but he turned out to be a lesser fighter than we thought.
Again the same could be said for most countries. Thee casual fan wants a knockout before they pick up the burger at the drive through. I enjoy boxing matches and pugilistic endeavors and as much as I dislike Ward, he's a pretty special operator.
Welterweight: Floyd Mayweather may be # 1 p4p in many people's eyes... but again, is hardly "fan-friendly" for many U.S. fans. Tim Bradley is a hard, dedicated worker... but he's not "next great hope" material. And whatever happened to Andre Berto?
A division full of people that dont fight each other.
Light Welter: Lamont Peterson's stock also dropped through the floor after his banned substance issues.
Jose Benavidez
Super Feather: Adrien Broner is super talented, but just another undisciplined, disrespectful punk. Hardly fits the mold of a "next great hope". Besides, his issues with weight have angered many potential fans.
I think he's going to make Demarco look like a baby seal on the pack ice and be a factor at welter by the end of next year.
Featherweight and below: No notables to speak of.
Gary Jr looks the part and almost Roy like.
So.... who's the next Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar de la Hoya, or Larry Holmes in the American boxing landscape? (If I inadvertently missed anyone, please let me know).
Once again this could be asked on a global scale and not just America.
Tbh I'm hoping that Floyd has some kind of a Leonard like epiphany and accepts the Martinez challenge. Floyd wont be baited by the offered catch weights and would only fight Martinez at 160.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Boxing popularity in the U.S. (among the casual fans) has always been tied to the existence of a native son among the sport's elite. Back in the days of Ali, Holmes, and Tyson... Americans enjoyed their "days in the sun" in the HW division. And when De La Hoya was around, his crossover appeal seemed to fill some of that void for U.S. fans. But Mosley's gone... and not everyone is a fan of Floyd Jr. A quick rundown of the divisions illustrates the present void in U.S. "stardom":
In fairness my friend that is probably true for any country.
Heavyweight: There are no American heavyweights in the picture worth mentioning. Some prospects, maybe... but no one to challenge the Klitschkos.
This division is pathetic and has been for years. This also applies to anywhere else in the world brother. Btw I thought Juan Carlos was going to own the division.
Light Heavy: Chad Dawson's stock dropped through the floor with his TKO loss to Andre Ward. Hopkins is ancient, and probably close to retiring. Even when he was active, he was hardly "fan-friendly" for many U.S. fans.
Another stale division. Cruiser is more exiting.
Super Middle: Andre Ward would be the closest thing to the "next great hope"... but he's hardly a household name. Maybe the weight division has something to do with it. Kelly Pavlik WAS going to be the "next great hope".... but his battles with the bottle basically put an end to all that. Jermaine Taylor had the humble personality that people like.... but he turned out to be a lesser fighter than we thought.
Again the same could be said for most countries. Thee casual fan wants a knockout before they pick up the burger at the drive through. I enjoy boxing matches and pugilistic endeavors and as much as I dislike Ward, he's a pretty special operator.
Welterweight: Floyd Mayweather may be # 1 p4p in many people's eyes... but again, is hardly "fan-friendly" for many U.S. fans. Tim Bradley is a hard, dedicated worker... but he's not "next great hope" material. And whatever happened to Andre Berto?
A division full of people that dont fight each other.
Light Welter: Lamont Peterson's stock also dropped through the floor after his banned substance issues.
Jose Benavidez
Super Feather: Adrien Broner is super talented, but just another undisciplined, disrespectful punk. Hardly fits the mold of a "next great hope". Besides, his issues with weight have angered many potential fans.
I think he's going to make Demarco look like a baby seal on the pack ice and be a factor at welter by the end of next year.
Featherweight and below: No notables to speak of.
Gary Jr looks the part and almost Roy like.
So.... who's the next Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar de la Hoya, or Larry Holmes in the American boxing landscape? (If I inadvertently missed anyone, please let me know).
Once again this could be asked on a global scale and not just America.
Tbh I'm hoping that Floyd has some kind of a Leonard like epiphany and accepts the Martinez challenge. Floyd wont be baited by the offered catch weights and would only fight Martinez at 160.
I know, bro.... but I would argue that globally, the U.S. boxing scene is the "straw that stirs the drink." I understand and agree about the similar situation in other countries.... but boxing in general will receive a big boost IF and WHEN the next American superstar emerges.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I know, bro.... but I would argue that globally, the U.S. boxing scene is the "straw that stirs the drink." I understand and agree about the similar situation in other countries.... but boxing in general will receive a big boost IF and WHEN the next American superstar emerges.
Unfortunate that boxing is so geocentric. We created the monopoly. HBO is the last word on who fights who. Another thread bud.
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You take what you get and without a great amateur boxing program we aren't getting what we could.
If you are waiting for a Sugar Ray, Oscar, Tyson, Ali or Holmes you might be waiting for a long time. We've had so many great fighters in the last 90 or so years, I'm not going to bitch too much. That next great one might show up on Friday Night Fights or ShowBox, who knows maybe he's already here and we're overlooking him. I got high hopes!
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
There's a guy Alex Aucedo I saw on some big undercard... I'm not sure whether he's managed by Top Rank or Golden Boy and I'm I'm not saying he's the next big thing... But he is one exciting fighter.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glinchdogg
Good post man
Personally I think once mayweather is gone the Americans won't have any pound for pound stars
The closest will Definatly be ward
Broner gets beat from our man burns every time
Burns is the man
But yeah ward probably unless froch beats him next
Or maybe groves :)
You have to be joking mentioning Groves
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Floyd not "fan friendly?"
He's one of the biggest ever stars in world boxing let alone America. You don't sell over a million PPV every fight if you're not "fan friendly." Trust me.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Floyd not "fan friendly?"
He's one of the biggest ever stars in world boxing let alone America. You don't sell over a million PPV every fight if you're not "fan friendly." Trust me.
Maybe "fan-friendly" was not the best term to use. Of course he draws big... he's the consensus #1 p4p right now. But not everybody tunes in hoping he'll win. He doesn't have the "outside the ring" image of De la Hoya (before the fishnets) and Sugar Ray Leonard back in his time. Pavlik was the perfect candidate awhile back, before he became totally beatable, and an alcoholic to boot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Floyd not "fan friendly?"
He's one of the biggest ever stars in world boxing let alone America. You don't sell over a million PPV every fight if you're not "fan friendly." Trust me.
Maybe "fan-friendly" was not the best term to use. Of course he draws big... he's the consensus #1 p4p right now. But not everybody tunes in hoping he'll win. He doesn't have the "outside the ring" image of De la Hoya (before the fishnets) and Sugar Ray Leonard back in his time. Pavlik was the perfect candidate awhile back, before he became totally beatable, and an alcoholic to boot.
You're both right, plenty of the PPVs are fans wanting to see Floyd get an ass whipping, Floyd knows and uses it to to keep going.
Lying against the ropes, presenting first one shoulder then the other, is not fan friendly.
Leading your opponent around the ring, waiting for him tire, while you throw jabs and the occasional counter is not fan friendly.
I'm not saying I don't enjoy watching him work, it's just not fan friendly.
Fenster, you are joking when you ask anyone to trust you, right?! Your icon, your handle and your gambling makes me want to check my wallet every time you post
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Andre Ward and Adrien Broner are the next American stars.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Floyd not "fan friendly?"
He's one of the biggest ever stars in world boxing let alone America. You don't sell over a million PPV every fight if you're not "fan friendly." Trust me.
Maybe "fan-friendly" was not the best term to use. Of course he draws big... he's the consensus #1 p4p right now. But not everybody tunes in hoping he'll win. He doesn't have the "outside the ring" image of De la Hoya (before the fishnets) and Sugar Ray Leonard back in his time. Pavlik was the perfect candidate awhile back, before he became totally beatable, and an alcoholic to boot.
You're both right, plenty of the PPVs are fans wanting to see Floyd get an ass whipping, Floyd knows and uses it to to keep going.
Lying against the ropes, presenting first one shoulder then the other, is not fan friendly.
Leading your opponent around the ring, waiting for him tire, while you throw jabs and the occasional counter is not fan friendly.
I'm not saying I don't enjoy watching him work, it's just not fan friendly.
Fenster, you are joking when you ask anyone to trust you, right?! Your icon, your handle and your gambling makes me want to check my wallet every time you post
You forgot my booze intake.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
The United States has some good fighters on the rise: Deontay Wilder is young & untested but at 6'7 with a reach of 84" he's going to have a lot of fans once he hits "the big stage". Joe Hanks is a very good prospect, Seth Mitchell has looked very good for someone late to boxing. Bryant Jennings (although not my "cup of tea") is a solid boxer. Those are just the heavyweights, there's Shawn Porter, Mike Lee, Demetrius Andrade, and of course Adrian Broner will be the one with the "Flashy Flash" who will challenge for P4P #1 status.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Good points all. But consider the following: A country like Mexico does not have a world-class amateur program, but is very successful in the pro ranks. Over here in Puerto Rico, we go through the same cycle every Olympics. We have several, very young, excellent prospects. But because they're young and comparatively inexperienced, we rarely medal. Then, for the next Games... these fighters have already turned pro... and we're back to a new crop of young, inexperienced prospects. Puerto Rico also has a great history in the pro ranks.
By contrast, you have some European countries who excel in the amateurs, and rake up the Olympic medals. Why? Because their boxers stay amateur into their 30's. And they become experts at the Olympic style of boxing, which rewards contact frequency rather than punch effectiveness. But these same countries then have few world champions in the pro ranks.
Apparently you can't have your cake and eat it too. I think it's a bit more complicated than just overhauling the amateur program.
Although on the other hand, and in favor of the point you make..... if you invest heavily in the amateur program.... just by the sheer increase in numbers (of boxers).... the probability of "the next great hope" emerging would certainly go up.
I agree with you on the fact that an 'Olympic style' of boxing rewards high arm punch output rather than effective punching and also that most European medalists are in their late 20's - early 30's. There's one thing though, in terms of pure technique and angle you'd have to agree that a deep background in the amateurs helps.
You make another good point in regards to mexico. As far as I understand it, there's quite a few boxing gym rivalries and also most boxers don't come from middle class or upper class backgrounds. It is not a sport that a son of a doctor or a lawyer would have a tendency to gravitate towards. That being the case and the GDP/head of Mexicans is lower than Americans.
More people perhaps seeing success in boxing as a way to move up the social ladder? This I don't honestly know but I would guess is the reason why.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Maybe Adrian Broner. Jose Benavidez looks very impressive too but obviously a long way to go.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
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Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Maybe Adrian Broner. Jose Benavidez looks very impressive too but obviously a long way to go.
So you don't rate Shawn Porter, Shawn Estrada, or Demitrius Andrade?
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Andre Ward and Adrien Broner are the next American stars.
That's just fucking sad, it's no wonder that most of my favorite fighters are from other countries.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Andre Ward and Adrien Broner are the next American stars.
That's just fucking sad, it's no wonder that most of my favorite fighters are from other countries.
I haven't seen enough off Broner inside the ring to say one way or the other for sure, he has a lot of talent but I 'm not convinced yet.
Ward is every bit as fan friendly as Floyd but doesn't do a lot of self promotion, like Mayweather. You are not going to see him running around with 50 Cent, carrying a flight bag stuffed with money, being released from jail, talking about how much he paid for his latest jewelry, hitting the Vegas casinos or talking to his girlfriend. Doing this does make Floyd a "superstar" to millions of people. Ward is never going to be a "superstar" the way Floyd is but I think he is as good as Floyd in the ring, maybe better. He's intelligent too, just like Floyd.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Might as well give it a shot.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armyash
Might as well give it a shot.
Are you kidding me? The United States has some heavyweights that will be very good, but right now nobody.....NOBODY (no matter which country they are from) is competing with the Klitschko brothers and it looks as if this will continue until Wladimir retires.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Andre Ward and Adrien Broner are the next American stars.
That's just fucking sad, it's no wonder that most of my favorite fighters are from other countries.
I might very well be with you on that. Who else is there?
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Andre Ward and Adrien Broner are the next American stars.
That's just fucking sad, it's no wonder that most of my favorite fighters are from other countries.
I might very well be with you on that. Who else is there?
Cynics....geez you guys are all a bunch of negative nancy's
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armyash
Might as well give it a shot.
Are you kidding me? The United States has some heavyweights that will be very good, but right now nobody.....NOBODY (no matter which country they are from) is competing with the Klitschko brothers and it looks as if this will continue until Wladimir retires.
Deadly serious ;)
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
I saw the Cotto fight because of Cotto not Floyd....I watched the Hatton fight because I wanted Floyd to lose....until the Scumbag Citeh fans booed the National Anthem, cocksuckers. after the Cotto fight I have a newfound respect for Floyd he FINALLY fought someone his same size or bigger, who wasn't at a weight disadvantage, who was on a run of good wins, who he was respectful to, and it was a great fight. Floyd doesn't HAVE to run his mouth and be a bastard for people to buy the fights, I would have been a bigger fan of his had he shown a bit more respect.
Broner is going to be a PPV player in coming years. Ward isn't all that great to watch but there's competition coming for him and it'll be PPV. The United States has ALWAYS produced good pros and we will continue to.
Actually I think with the NFL & everyone worried about concussions in football, more people might say "fuck it" and get back into boxing because it might be better for you in the long run.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
I think Broner is more of a gobshite than Mayweather was at the same stage. Mayweather has reached the pinnacle of his sport we have to expect him to be full of himself.
Broner had a tough fight against Ponce de leon (I think) that some people argued he got a gift from the judges, I haven't seen that fight but one judge gave it to him by 8 points. My point is when people said that Mayweather was lucky against Chavez years ago he rematched him and won convincingly. This would have done wonders for his confidence and skills. Broner hasn't done that.
Broner acts like a prick, I don't see him being held in high regard the same as the Mayeather, JMM's and Pacs are held today. I see him becoming unstuck before then, he'll be dragged in to a relentless pressure fight and will give his 0 away.
The way he got on his knee and made it look like he was going to propose to his girlfriend then asked her to brush his hair. What a twat.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
"Half?" That's just ridiculous. Ali didn't become the global icon he did because MILLIONS and MILLIONS all tuned in to watch him lose. The majority thought he was awesome.
The majority of PPV sales come from casual fans. People in vast numbers DO NOT spend money on things they don't like.
People buy Floyd fights and root for the underdog. It doesn't mean they hate him.
Floyd's PPV numbers with Cotto/Ortiz/Marquez/Mosley - all did between 1 and 1.5 million PPVs. His opponents have become basically irrelevant. He is currently the world's highest earning sportsman. He has over 3 million twitter followers. Casual fans love the guy.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
"Half?" That's just ridiculous. Ali didn't become the global icon he did because MILLIONS and MILLIONS all tuned in to watch him lose. The majority thought he was awesome.
The majority of PPV sales come from casual fans. People in vast numbers DO NOT spend money on things they don't like.
People buy Floyd fights and root for the underdog. It doesn't mean they hate him.
Floyd's PPV numbers with Cotto/Ortiz/Marquez/Mosley - all did between 1 and 1.5 million PPVs. His opponents have become basically irrelevant. He is currently the world's highest earning sportsman. He has over 3 million twitter followers. Casual fans love the guy.
We're straying a bit from the point of the thread. People like Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya were pretty much universally liked within the U.S. (and beyond). They were mega-stars who, at least during their boxing years, comported themselves in a manner to attract more viewers and more fans. That, coupled with their success in the ring, is what made them mega-stars during their respective eras. Floyd Mayweather, while the world's best boxing talent, is none of the above. He definitely is NOT universally liked, regardless of how many PPV $$$ figures you wish to spill onto the thread. As usual, you're confusing the line between PPV stardom, and role model, "All-American" status.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
"Half?" That's just ridiculous. Ali didn't become the global icon he did because MILLIONS and MILLIONS all tuned in to watch him lose. The majority thought he was awesome.
The majority of PPV sales come from casual fans. People in vast numbers DO NOT spend money on things they don't like.
People buy Floyd fights and root for the underdog. It doesn't mean they hate him.
Floyd's PPV numbers with Cotto/Ortiz/Marquez/Mosley - all did between 1 and 1.5 million PPVs. His opponents have become basically irrelevant. He is currently the world's highest earning sportsman. He has over 3 million twitter followers. Casual fans love the guy.
We're straying a bit from the point of the thread. People like Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya were pretty much universally liked within the U.S. (and beyond). They were mega-stars who, at least during their boxing years, comported themselves in a manner to attract more viewers and more fans. That, coupled with their success in the ring, is what made them mega-stars during their respective eras. Floyd Mayweather, while the world's best boxing talent, is none of the above. He definitely is NOT universally liked, regardless of how many PPV $$$ figures you wish to spill onto the thread. As usual, you're confusing the line between PPV stardom, and role model, "All-American" status.
No you're confusing your own perceptions with that of the majority. Just because you don't like him, and a few hundred boxing fans, that post on internet forums don't like him, it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him.
Floyd's fights are sold to hundreds of countries around the world. You don't have to be a golf fan to admire Tiger Woods or a Tennis fan to admire Federer. Most fans just recognise their brilliance.
Because Floyd is not the "role model" you believe he should be, it doesn't make him unpopular to the masses. Thousands turned out in Engalnd to watch him train when he visited. He would sell out a stadium in Britain if he fought here, regardless of the opponent.
Maybe he's not the "all American hero," but he sure isn't lacking in popularity.
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
"Half?" That's just ridiculous. Ali didn't become the global icon he did because MILLIONS and MILLIONS all tuned in to watch him lose. The majority thought he was awesome.
The majority of PPV sales come from casual fans. People in vast numbers DO NOT spend money on things they don't like.
People buy Floyd fights and root for the underdog. It doesn't mean they hate him.
Floyd's PPV numbers with Cotto/Ortiz/Marquez/Mosley - all did between 1 and 1.5 million PPVs. His opponents have become basically irrelevant. He is currently the world's highest earning sportsman. He has over 3 million twitter followers. Casual fans love the guy.
We're straying a bit from the point of the thread. People like Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya were pretty much universally liked within the U.S. (and beyond). They were mega-stars who, at least during their boxing years, comported themselves in a manner to attract more viewers and more fans. That, coupled with their success in the ring, is what made them mega-stars during their respective eras. Floyd Mayweather, while the world's best boxing talent, is none of the above. He definitely is NOT universally liked, regardless of how many PPV $$$ figures you wish to spill onto the thread. As usual, you're confusing the line between PPV stardom, and role model, "All-American" status.
No you're confusing your own perceptions with that of the majority. Just because you don't like him, and a few hundred boxing fans, that post on internet forums don't like him, it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him.
Floyd's fights are sold to hundreds of countries around the world. You don't have to be a golf fan to admire Tiger Woods or a Tennis fan to admire Federer. Most fans just recognise their brilliance.
Because Floyd is not the "role model" you believe he should be, it doesn't make him unpopular to the masses. Thousands turned out in Engalnd to watch him train when he visited. He would sell out a stadium in Britain if he fought here, regardless of the opponent.
Maybe he's not the "all American hero," but he sure isn't lacking in popularity.
1. My thread..... my point. Simple as.
2. Please produce irrefutable evidence that, in your words: "... it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him." "Because I said so" doesn't count as evidence.
3. While you're at it, please produce irrefutable evidence, or legitimate authority that enables you to speak for the perceptions of the majority.
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There is no such thing as irrefutable evidence. Even in a court of law no such thing exists. Chill out man it's a forum, full of peoples opinions........oh and some FACTS;-)
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
"Half?" That's just ridiculous. Ali didn't become the global icon he did because MILLIONS and MILLIONS all tuned in to watch him lose. The majority thought he was awesome.
The majority of PPV sales come from casual fans. People in vast numbers DO NOT spend money on things they don't like.
People buy Floyd fights and root for the underdog. It doesn't mean they hate him.
Floyd's PPV numbers with Cotto/Ortiz/Marquez/Mosley - all did between 1 and 1.5 million PPVs. His opponents have become basically irrelevant. He is currently the world's highest earning sportsman. He has over 3 million twitter followers. Casual fans love the guy.
We're straying a bit from the point of the thread. People like Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya were pretty much universally liked within the U.S. (and beyond). They were mega-stars who, at least during their boxing years, comported themselves in a manner to attract more viewers and more fans. That, coupled with their success in the ring, is what made them mega-stars during their respective eras. Floyd Mayweather, while the world's best boxing talent, is none of the above. He definitely is NOT universally liked, regardless of how many PPV $$$ figures you wish to spill onto the thread. As usual, you're confusing the line between PPV stardom, and role model, "All-American" status.
No you're confusing your own perceptions with that of the majority. Just because you don't like him, and a few hundred boxing fans, that post on internet forums don't like him, it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him.
Floyd's fights are sold to hundreds of countries around the world. You don't have to be a golf fan to admire Tiger Woods or a Tennis fan to admire Federer. Most fans just recognise their brilliance.
Because Floyd is not the "role model" you believe he should be, it doesn't make him unpopular to the masses. Thousands turned out in Engalnd to watch him train when he visited. He would sell out a stadium in Britain if he fought here, regardless of the opponent.
Maybe he's not the "all American hero," but he sure isn't lacking in popularity.
1.
My thread.....
my point. Simple as.
2. Please produce irrefutable evidence that, in your words:
"... it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him." "Because I said so" doesn't count as evidence.
3. While you're at it, please produce irrefutable evidence, or legitimate authority that enables you to speak for
the perceptions of the majority.
I've already given you the facts and figures.
A chimpanzee could work out that a man with 3.4 million twitter followers is seriously popular.
Oh wait... those millions all hate him, right? :rolleyes:
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
There's no way that half of Floyd's PPV sales come from people wanting him to lose.
How many people buy PPV's on this site? This is a hardcore boxing forum yet the majority ponce streams (myself included these days). The Floyd fans on this site don't buy his fights let alone the "haters"
Half-a-million people paying $50 a pop to watch someone they don't like just isn't realistic. These casual's buy into Floyd the superstar, so his fights are must see events
Two words: Muhammad Ali
PPV wasn't around back then.... but half the people paying good money to see his fights were doing so in the hopes that someone would shut his irreverent mouth.
"Half?" That's just ridiculous. Ali didn't become the global icon he did because MILLIONS and MILLIONS all tuned in to watch him lose. The majority thought he was awesome.
The majority of PPV sales come from casual fans. People in vast numbers DO NOT spend money on things they don't like.
People buy Floyd fights and root for the underdog. It doesn't mean they hate him.
Floyd's PPV numbers with Cotto/Ortiz/Marquez/Mosley - all did between 1 and 1.5 million PPVs. His opponents have become basically irrelevant. He is currently the world's highest earning sportsman. He has over 3 million twitter followers. Casual fans love the guy.
We're straying a bit from the point of the thread. People like Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar de la Hoya were pretty much universally liked within the U.S. (and beyond). They were mega-stars who, at least during their boxing years, comported themselves in a manner to attract more viewers and more fans. That, coupled with their success in the ring, is what made them mega-stars during their respective eras. Floyd Mayweather, while the world's best boxing talent, is none of the above. He definitely is NOT universally liked, regardless of how many PPV $$$ figures you wish to spill onto the thread. As usual, you're confusing the line between PPV stardom, and role model, "All-American" status.
No you're confusing your own perceptions with that of the majority. Just because you don't like him, and a few hundred boxing fans, that post on internet forums don't like him, it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him.
Floyd's fights are sold to hundreds of countries around the world. You don't have to be a golf fan to admire Tiger Woods or a Tennis fan to admire Federer. Most fans just recognise their brilliance.
Because Floyd is not the "role model" you believe he should be, it doesn't make him unpopular to the masses. Thousands turned out in Engalnd to watch him train when he visited. He would sell out a stadium in Britain if he fought here, regardless of the opponent.
Maybe he's not the "all American hero," but he sure isn't lacking in popularity.
1.
My thread.....
my point. Simple as.
2. Please produce irrefutable evidence that, in your words:
"... it doesn't mean the vast majority of casual sport fans don't like him." "Because I said so" doesn't count as evidence.
3. While you're at it, please produce irrefutable evidence, or legitimate authority that enables you to speak for
the perceptions of the majority.
I've already given you the facts and figures.
A chimpanzee could work out that a man with
3.4 million twitter followers is seriously popular.
Oh wait... those millions all hate him, right? :rolleyes:
A logical adult would produce a poll to back up his statement that the vast majority of fans like Floyd Mayweather.
An infant... or a chimpanzee, to use your analogy... would produce Twitter numbers to back up his claim.
Below is a list of top Twitter followings:
Twitter top 100 most followed - Twitter Counter
So using your warped logic, the vast majority of people would then like Britney Spears and Rihanna, based on Twitter following, right? After all, they have a hell of a lot more Twitter following than Mayweather.
Get back to me when you can legitimately answer my question.
Otherwise, quit wasting my time.
;)
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
armyash
I think Broner is more of a gobshite than Mayweather was at the same stage. Mayweather has reached the pinnacle of his sport we have to expect him to be full of himself.
Broner had a tough fight against Ponce de leon (I think) that some people argued he got a gift from the judges, I haven't seen that fight but one judge gave it to him by 8 points. My point is when people said that Mayweather was lucky against Chavez years ago he rematched him and won convincingly. This would have done wonders for his confidence and skills. Broner hasn't done that.
Broner acts like a prick, I don't see him being held in high regard the same as the Mayeather, JMM's and Pacs are held today. I see him becoming unstuck before then, he'll be dragged in to a relentless pressure fight and will give his 0 away.
The way he got on his knee and made it look like he was going to propose to his girlfriend then asked her to brush his hair. What a twat.
*castillo
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Re: So who's the next "great American hope" in boxing?
Look, I have been following this sport for over 40 years and Tito has a point. Of course in my early fan days I would tune in because I loved the sport at an early age but I also wanted to see Ali's head get knocked off by Chuvalo. I never liked Ali and a big part of attention to the sport was at the time seeing his demise. I remember the feeling in the theatre 48 miles from the American border and able to watch Frasier/Ali 1 for about 5 bucks.
I never liked Tyson but certain fights made me pay money to watch prior to streams in the hopes of seeing him cold cocked. And I'm no casual fan.
Same with Floyd and Hopkins whom I hated for years. I have not ordered a ppv in several years because of streams but seeing these two lose did effect the time spent on finding a feed as well as a fundamental love of the sport.
No doubt in my mind that many ppv purchases are made with a desired loser in mind.
Anyone who denies "want" as a condition to following the sport is lapse in judgment.
